Mac
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Post by Mac on May 20, 2023 11:05:20 GMT -5
I’ve learned a few things after confronting O/S in my state.
1- They are not THINKING very deeply about the heinous nature of the crimes. The evidence of this is revealed when they are confronted with the names of perps. They whine about not accusing an elder without witnesses, about mercy, about not judging, etc. I had to explain to them the effects of hiding these sins. It was new information for them.
2- They pay lip service to following Jesus but in reality they believe more in their ability to discern spirits than in the teaching of Jesus. When confronted, they blow past Matthew 5-7 and concentrate instead on who has the right “spirit.”
3- Its evident that ALL the F/W are infected to some degree by this doctrine of “the spirit.” It is everywhere. You’ll hear people talk about a “spirit led ministry”. It ought to be a “Christ led ministry”. Perhaps that’s a subtle change in wording but a major change in focus. This doctrine of discerning the “spirit” is deadly. For a perp, all they need do is pray, flogging themselves mentally enough to achieve some level of remorse and then declare themselves fully repented with their “spirit” as evidence. For O/S’s, they accept their own judgement of someone’s “spirit” as evidence of repentance and then take steps to ignore the need for anything more. This is the root of how it all happens. It’s not a big step from this to dedicated SA/CSA. To illustrate how ludicrous this is, think about an AA meeting where you can bypass the opening admission and just declare how sorry you are. Imagine everyone accepting this as adequate effort for a drunk.
4- This doctrine is inexorably moving this fellowship towards mainstream Christianity. You need only read the Apostles creed to understand. There is no mention there of the 30+ years of Jesus’ example and teaching. Also not mentioned is the Love of God. They give a whole line to reference a single obscure verse about him descending into hell but nothing about literally pages devoted to his life.
5- Nothing will change until they stop wringing their hands and looking for the balance between status quo and mollifying the mob. For example, notice the continued conventions, special meetings, gospel meetings, etc. There is a glaring lack of organized effort to hold a world wide council on getting to the bottom of the problem.
6- This “spirit” doctrine has its own spirit. It won’t allow the words of Jesus to be held in esteem above it. It will not allow itself to be questioned. It won’t leave easily. It will continue to uphold the top people as the arbiters of who has the “spirit” or not. Even their vocabulary supports this. “Step down” rather than “leave the ministry”. A subtle change but quite telling.
7- One humorous thing I learned from confronting an O/S was that he couldn’t show anger! That would be a “spirit of anger” you see. So he had to cope with me by ghosting, passive aggressiveness, whining, obfuscation, etc. My confrontation was threatening his future, career, reputation, worldview. Is it any wonder that he would choose a course that protects him and just give the minimum to justice and righteousness.
8- Eventually there will be a split along this doctrinal line. The more popular “spirit led ministry” will take most of the F/W and inexorably move closer to mainstream Christianity while the others will fragment and fade into history. The “spirit led” will be lawyered up, super CSA trained, websited, newslettered and transparent. There’ll be creeds and contracts but none of them will be able to explain what Jesus meant by cutting off your hand or gouging out your eye to avoid sin.
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peggysullivan
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What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
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Post by peggysullivan on May 20, 2023 11:09:35 GMT -5
Which overseer? Which state?
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Mac
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Post by Mac on May 20, 2023 11:16:19 GMT -5
Which overseer? Which state? Does it matter? Revealing mine will reveal me and I’m not ready for that yet. But I will challenge any overseer in any state to show themselves different. To admit that they can’t tell who has the spirit and who doesn’t. That would go a long way toward putting the focus back on applying the teachings of Jesus regardless of who has what spirit.
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peggysullivan
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What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
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Post by peggysullivan on May 20, 2023 11:23:19 GMT -5
Which overseer? Which state? Does it matter? Revealing mine will reveal me and I’m not ready for that yet. But I will challenge any overseer in any state to show themselves different. To admit that they can’t tell who has the spirit and who doesn’t. That would go a long way toward putting the focus back on applying the teachings of Jesus regardless of who has what spirit. I understand, no problem. thx.
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Post by jonathan on May 20, 2023 11:24:50 GMT -5
Mac, I'm sorry for your experience. What a disillusionment!
Thank you for putting it do clearly in words.
Yes, a sprit-led ministry instead of Spirit-led or Christ-led.
Seems peeps can do what they want fur as long as they want as long as they have a nice spirit. Having the Spirit perps never would've abused anyone in the first place. But they do because they have a nice spirit.
What is of God will last, even if it is reduced to a dry root.
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peggysullivan
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What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
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Post by peggysullivan on May 20, 2023 11:28:34 GMT -5
And the reality is.....sex offenders can present as very 'nice' and well behaved.
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Post by jonathan on May 20, 2023 14:44:19 GMT -5
And the reality is.....sex offenders can present as very 'nice' and well behaved. Very true, and they use this as their cloak. Maybe also why the victims aren't believed, because the perp appears to be such a nice person! So many challenges in fighting abuse...
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peggysullivan
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What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
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Post by peggysullivan on May 20, 2023 14:46:14 GMT -5
And the reality is.....sex offenders can present as very 'nice' and well behaved. Very true, and they use this as their cloak. Maybe also why the victims aren't believed, because the perp appears to be such a nice person! So many challenges in fighting abuse... Yes, and it’s not always that easy to get them convicted! In many cases victims will not come forward nor will they testify at trials. For various reasons.
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Post by scooter123 on May 20, 2023 15:25:18 GMT -5
The “right spirit” means you don’t question. Period.
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Post by Dan on May 20, 2023 18:18:49 GMT -5
The “right spirit” means you don’t question. Period.
That's true... I remember as a teenager I asked a worker why dinosaurs weren't mentioned in the creation story. Her detailed response was, "You lack faith", along with a frown of discuss for me having the audacity to ask.
That same frown came when she left and noticed the large eagle decal on the hood (bonnet) of my 1976 Pontiac Trans Am, she had no problem formulating a response to that; "Very worldly, get rid of it".
Thank goodness she didn't notice the new radio/cassette player I had just installed!
Maybe a new independent helpline manned by independent Friends could anonymously supply answers. Complaint's, call 1-800-ANSWERS, no 'right spirit' required
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peggysullivan
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What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
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Post by peggysullivan on May 20, 2023 18:27:21 GMT -5
The “right spirit” means you don’t question. Period.
That's true... I remember as a teenager I asked a worker why dinosaurs weren't mentioned in the creation story. Her detailed response was, "You lack faith", along with a frown of discuss for me having the audacity to ask.
That same frown came when she left and noticed the large eagle decal on the hood (bonnet) of my 1976 Pontiac Trans Am, she had no problem formulating a response to that; "Very worldly, get rid of it".
Thank goodness she didn't notice the new radio/cassette player I had just installed!
Maybe a new independent helpline manned by independent Friends could anonymously supply answers. Complaint's, call 1-800-ANSWERS, no 'right spirit' required Hmmm. I like it.👍🏼
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peggysullivan
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What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
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Post by peggysullivan on May 20, 2023 18:36:11 GMT -5
That's true... I remember as a teenager I asked a worker why dinosaurs weren't mentioned in the creation story. Her detailed response was, "You lack faith", along with a frown of discuss for me having the audacity to ask.
That same frown came when she left and noticed the large eagle decal on the hood (bonnet) of my 1976 Pontiac Trans Am, she had no problem formulating a response to that; "Very worldly, get rid of it".
Thank goodness she didn't notice the new radio/cassette player I had just installed!
Maybe a new independent helpline manned by independent Friends could anonymously supply answers. Complaint's, call 1-800-ANSWERS, no 'right spirit' required Hmmm. I like it.👍🏼 This reminds me of when my sister turned 60… Her granddaughter asked, “Grandma, do you remember the dinosaurs?” Lol!
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peggysullivan
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What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
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Post by peggysullivan on May 21, 2023 14:42:32 GMT -5
And the reality is.....sex offenders can present as very 'nice' and well behaved. Very true, and they use this as their cloak. Maybe also why the victims aren't believed, because the perp appears to be such a nice person! So many challenges in fighting abuse... Probably one of the most common things you will hear is, “I just can’t believe he would do something like that.”
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Post by jonathan on May 21, 2023 15:14:51 GMT -5
Very true, and they use this as their cloak. Maybe also why the victims aren't believed, because the perp appears to be such a nice person! So many challenges in fighting abuse... Probably one of the most common things you will hear is, “I just can’t believe he would do something like that.” And, "Maybe it wasn't received the way he intended". Also, "He has such a warm and friendly personality, that's his make-up. People just over-react, or are hyper sensitive" And, I've never had a problem with him! Are you sure? And so it goes on. I really do feel for the victims who are not believed.
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Post by neighbour on May 21, 2023 16:41:31 GMT -5
Very true, and they use this as their cloak. Maybe also why the victims aren't believed, because the perp appears to be such a nice person! So many challenges in fighting abuse... Probably one of the most common things you will hear is, “I just can’t believe he would do something like that.” It's like people are completely naive to what the term "con man" means...
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Mac
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Post by Mac on Jun 29, 2023 17:30:24 GMT -5
The “Spirit Led” doctrine - Eph 6:12 This is a doctrine. It is a false doctrine. It is everywhere, infecting everyone. It is wrong. Consider this: If the Holy Spirit was guiding you, it would encourage you to say “Christ led”, not “Spirit led.” Jn 16:14 When I busted Jim Chafee for grooming a woman in our field, he attempted to get me to ignore the teaching of Jesus by saying, “Wait for the Spirit to guide.” When I said I was going to follow the scripture, Mt 18:15-17, he became angry. He has never repented but continues to pretend to be a true worker. This means that he retains, to this day, a doctrine that he proved can be used to circumvent the words of Jesus. This “Spirit led” doctrine is not in line with the Spirit itself. Here is a short list of what it allows. - [ ] You can claim any situation to be filled with the Spirit simply by interpreting warm fuzzy feelings as the Spirit. - [ ] You can claim anyone has the Spirit simply because they agree with you. - [ ] You can cut down anyone for using judgement and blame it on them not having the right Spirit
If your doctrine is “Christ led”, then here is a short list of what that brings. - [ ] You must always look to Jesus’ example for guidance and ignore the appearance of righteousness. - [ ] You must understand Jesus’ example and teaching and be willing to enforce it within your area of responsibility no matter how righteous you feel yourself. - [ ] You must be willing to abandon any tradition or belief that doesn’t completely align with Jesus.
The reason the overseers are having trouble repenting is because we have lost touch with true repentance, 2 Cor 7:10-11, by believing in this false doctrine. We are lulled into thinking that remorse/sorrow equals repentance and the Spirit. So the overseers apologize and are surprised when you don’t accept it as repentance. Jn 14:24. How can we repent from this false doctrine? Mt 17:21. I’ve heard people pushing back against everyone taking two years off to study the scriptures and search their hearts. This fellowship must go into dry dock. These repairs cannot be completed at sea (status quo). They involve the hull and the keel. Do you trust God to keep you and guide you with only the Sunday fellowship meetings? 1 Cor 11:23-32
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2023 19:14:44 GMT -5
The “Spirit Led” doctrine - Eph 6:12 This is a doctrine. It is a false doctrine. It is everywhere, infecting everyone. It is wrong. Consider this: If the Holy Spirit was guiding you, it would encourage you to say “Christ led”, not “Spirit led.” Jn 16:14 When I busted Jim Chafee for grooming a woman in our field, he attempted to get me to ignore the teaching of Jesus by saying, “Wait for the Spirit to guide.” When I said I was going to follow the scripture, Mt 18:15-17, he became angry. He has never repented but continues to pretend to be a true worker. This means that he retains, to this day, a doctrine that he proved can be used to circumvent the words of Jesus. This “Spirit led” doctrine is not in line with the Spirit itself. Here is a short list of what it allows. - [ ] You can claim any situation to be filled with the Spirit simply by interpreting warm fuzzy feelings as the Spirit. - [ ] You can claim anyone has the Spirit simply because they agree with you. - [ ] You can cut down anyone for using judgement and blame it on them not having the right Spirit If your doctrine is “Christ led”, then here is a short list of what that brings. - [ ] You must always look to Jesus’ example for guidance and ignore the appearance of righteousness. - [ ] You must understand Jesus’ example and teaching and be willing to enforce it within your area of responsibility no matter how righteous you feel yourself. - [ ] You must be willing to abandon any tradition or belief that doesn’t completely align with Jesus. The reason the overseers are having trouble repenting is because we have lost touch with true repentance, 2 Cor 7:10-11, by believing in this false doctrine. We are lulled into thinking that remorse/sorrow equals repentance and the Spirit. So the overseers apologize and are surprised when you don’t accept it as repentance. Jn 14:24. How can we repent from this false doctrine? Mt 17:21. I’ve heard people pushing back against everyone taking two years off to study the scriptures and search their hearts. This fellowship must go into dry dock. These repairs cannot be completed at sea (status quo). They involve the hull and the keel. Do you trust God to keep you and guide you with only the Sunday fellowship meetings? 1 Cor 11:23-32 You'll need to explain why Jesus said this then, you know the verse before the one you mention: Joh_16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. God, Creator of all Jesus, example, savior and intercessor Holy Spirit, guide and comforter
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Post by verna on Jun 29, 2023 19:35:47 GMT -5
The “Spirit Led” doctrine - Eph 6:12 This is a doctrine. It is a false doctrine. It is everywhere, infecting everyone. It is wrong. Consider this: If the Holy Spirit was guiding you, it would encourage you to say “Christ led”, not “Spirit led.” Jn 16:14 When I busted Jim Chafee for grooming a woman in our field, he attempted to get me to ignore the teaching of Jesus by saying, “Wait for the Spirit to guide.” When I said I was going to follow the scripture, Mt 18:15-17, he became angry. He has never repented but continues to pretend to be a true worker. This means that he retains, to this day, a doctrine that he proved can be used to circumvent the words of Jesus. This “Spirit led” doctrine is not in line with the Spirit itself. Here is a short list of what it allows. - [ ] You can claim any situation to be filled with the Spirit simply by interpreting warm fuzzy feelings as the Spirit. - [ ] You can claim anyone has the Spirit simply because they agree with you. - [ ] You can cut down anyone for using judgement and blame it on them not having the right Spirit If your doctrine is “Christ led”, then here is a short list of what that brings. - [ ] You must always look to Jesus’ example for guidance and ignore the appearance of righteousness. - [ ] You must understand Jesus’ example and teaching and be willing to enforce it within your area of responsibility no matter how righteous you feel yourself. - [ ] You must be willing to abandon any tradition or belief that doesn’t completely align with Jesus. The reason the overseers are having trouble repenting is because we have lost touch with true repentance, 2 Cor 7:10-11, by believing in this false doctrine. We are lulled into thinking that remorse/sorrow equals repentance and the Spirit. So the overseers apologize and are surprised when you don’t accept it as repentance. Jn 14:24. How can we repent from this false doctrine? Mt 17:21. I’ve heard people pushing back against everyone taking two years off to study the scriptures and search their hearts. This fellowship must go into dry dock. These repairs cannot be completed at sea (status quo). They involve the hull and the keel. Do you trust God to keep you and guide you with only the Sunday fellowship meetings? 1 Cor 11:23-32 You'll need to explain why Jesus said this then, you know the verse before the one you mention: Joh_16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. God, Creator of all Jesus, example, savior and intercessor Holy Spirit, guide and comforter Imo 2x2s/Christians have a lot of ‘splainin’ to do. The holy spirit seems to be absent in this whole situation.
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Post by chuck on Jun 29, 2023 19:42:55 GMT -5
Which overseer? Which state? Does it matter? Revealing mine will reveal me and I’m not ready for that yet. But I will challenge any overseer in any state to show themselves different. To admit that they can’t tell who has the spirit and who doesn’t. That would go a long way toward putting the focus back on applying the teachings of Jesus regardless of who has what spirit. It's all about the form. "The Spirit" in religion is all about the form.....The actual original intent of "Spirit" that these Hebrew people speak of is something that can inhabit anyone regardless of their religious beliefs, lack thereof or complete disbelief and rejection.........Any time even including the Hebrew's, people imply "The Spirit" is linked to or is as a result of their religion you know it's just not the case. A perfect example again is Dean Bruer....he had "The Spirit" according to the 2x2's, just read the gushing comments from his funeral......the only reason he had "The Spirit" was because of his religious form and how well he performed it........... The fruits of the Spirit are love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. It's as simple as people who act out these characteristics are inhabited by that influence(Spirit), wether they actually believe that a man called Jesus actually rose from the dead or not or they believe there is actually a supreme being called God in the clouds or not has absolutely no bearing on one's actual indwelling influence. To add to that if the only reason one is displaying the fruits of the Spirit is because of their religious beliefs which usually the underlying driver is the avoidance of this place called hell....well aint that the defenition of selfishness and the antithesis of "The Spirit".
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Post by chuck on Jun 29, 2023 19:55:16 GMT -5
The “Spirit Led” doctrine - Eph 6:12 This is a doctrine. It is a false doctrine. It is everywhere, infecting everyone. It is wrong. Consider this: If the Holy Spirit was guiding you, it would encourage you to say “Christ led”, not “Spirit led.” Jn 16:14 When I busted Jim Chafee for grooming a woman in our field, he attempted to get me to ignore the teaching of Jesus by saying, “Wait for the Spirit to guide.” When I said I was going to follow the scripture, Mt 18:15-17, he became angry. He has never repented but continues to pretend to be a true worker. This means that he retains, to this day, a doctrine that he proved can be used to circumvent the words of Jesus. This “Spirit led” doctrine is not in line with the Spirit itself. Here is a short list of what it allows. - [ ] You can claim any situation to be filled with the Spirit simply by interpreting warm fuzzy feelings as the Spirit. - [ ] You can claim anyone has the Spirit simply because they agree with you. - [ ] You can cut down anyone for using judgement and blame it on them not having the right Spirit If your doctrine is “Christ led”, then here is a short list of what that brings. - [ ] You must always look to Jesus’ example for guidance and ignore the appearance of righteousness. - [ ] You must understand Jesus’ example and teaching and be willing to enforce it within your area of responsibility no matter how righteous you feel yourself. - [ ] You must be willing to abandon any tradition or belief that doesn’t completely align with Jesus. The reason the overseers are having trouble repenting is because we have lost touch with true repentance, 2 Cor 7:10-11, by believing in this false doctrine. We are lulled into thinking that remorse/sorrow equals repentance and the Spirit. So the overseers apologize and are surprised when you don’t accept it as repentance. Jn 14:24. How can we repent from this false doctrine? Mt 17:21. I’ve heard people pushing back against everyone taking two years off to study the scriptures and search their hearts. This fellowship must go into dry dock. These repairs cannot be completed at sea (status quo). They involve the hull and the keel. Do you trust God to keep you and guide you with only the Sunday fellowship meetings? 1 Cor 11:23-32 You'll need to explain why Jesus said this then, you know the verse before the one you mention: Joh_16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. God, Creator of all Jesus, example, savior and intercessor Holy Spirit, guide and comforter "A common example of cultural appropriation is the adoption of the iconography of another culture, and using it for purposes that are unintended by the original culture or even offensive to that culture's mores." I haven't seen any evidence you know what it meant to the people you have appropriated it from......so far you have only displayed what it meant to the Western Church and of course the workers.......which leads me to think maybe you don't actually understand the words you are using wally.......
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Post by chuck on Jun 29, 2023 19:58:37 GMT -5
You'll need to explain why Jesus said this then, you know the verse before the one you mention: Joh_16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. God, Creator of all Jesus, example, savior and intercessor Holy Spirit, guide and comforter Imo 2x2s/Christians have a lot of ‘splainin’ to do. The holy spirit seems to be absent in this whole situation. No its not absent, just look for love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. It's only absent because you have been given a false criteria for it's presence.... Edit...."The Holy Spirit" in today's language would be known as "the content of ones character".
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Post by chuck on Jun 29, 2023 20:11:38 GMT -5
Mac, I'm sorry for your experience. What a disillusionment! Thank you for putting it do clearly in words. Yes, a sprit-led ministry instead of Spirit-led or Christ-led. Seems peeps can do what they want fur as long as they want as long as they have a nice spirit. Having the Spirit perps never would've abused anyone in the first place. But they do because they have a nice spirit. What is of God will last, even if it is reduced to a dry root. Which God?....
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Post by getreal on Jun 29, 2023 20:31:35 GMT -5
The “right spirit” means you don’t question. Period. Exactly. I think this spirit doctrine angle is much ado really, over thinking. Its just a euphemism for fitting in, obedience, compliance, conformity, not making waves. This is more important than anything else really. It greases the wheels. Enables the whole thing to keep rolling along. It gets you promoted. It proves you are right with god. Being right with the workers is more important than being right with god. But to the workers it is one and the same. Its a cult in other words.
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Post by fixit on Jun 29, 2023 20:34:40 GMT -5
The “Spirit Led” doctrine - Eph 6:12 This is a doctrine. It is a false doctrine. It is everywhere, infecting everyone. It is wrong. Thanks for your thoughtful posts. I think we are on the same page but have a different way of explaining the phenomenon. "Have the right spirit" really just means having a conforming and subservient attitude, a.k.a. "kingdom minded". True children of God have God enthroned in their hearts, what you refer to as led by the Spirit of God. Or controlled and guided by his voice, his living and active word from heaven to our hearts. Hebrews 4:12 Indeed, the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing until it divides soul from spirit, joints from marrow; it is able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
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Post by fixit on Jun 29, 2023 20:49:10 GMT -5
The “right spirit” means you don’t question. Period. Exactly. I think this spirit doctrine angle is much ado really, over thinking. Its just a euphemism for fitting in, obedience, compliance, conformity, not making waves. This is more important than anything else really. It greases the wheels. Enables the whole thing to keep rolling along. It gets you promoted. It proves you are right with god. Being right with the workers is more important than being right with god. But to the workers it is one and the same. Its a cult in other words. I have always resisted referring to the fellowship as a cult but I have to admit that system-worship is a cult. That's not to say everyone in the fellowship is in a cult. It depends whether your focus is a kingdom of men or God enthroned within you.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2023 21:00:53 GMT -5
You'll need to explain why Jesus said this then, you know the verse before the one you mention: Joh_16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. God, Creator of all Jesus, example, savior and intercessor Holy Spirit, guide and comforter "A common example of cultural appropriation is the adoption of the iconography of another culture, and using it for purposes that are unintended by the original culture or even offensive to that culture's mores." I haven't seen any evidence you know what it meant to the people you have appropriated it from......so far you have only displayed what it meant to the Western Church and of course the workers.......which leads me to think maybe you don't actually understand the words you are using wally....... Hebraic scholar your mind has rotted away with that crap you've allowed in... good luck you'll need...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2023 21:04:28 GMT -5
You'll need to explain why Jesus said this then, you know the verse before the one you mention: Joh_16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. God, Creator of all Jesus, example, savior and intercessor Holy Spirit, guide and comforter Imo 2x2s/Christians have a lot of ‘splainin’ to do. The holy spirit seems to be absent in this whole situation. Free will, the Holy Spirit hasn't been absent, people have rejected it...
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Post by getreal on Jun 29, 2023 21:06:31 GMT -5
Exactly. I think this spirit doctrine angle is much ado really, over thinking. Its just a euphemism for fitting in, obedience, compliance, conformity, not making waves. This is more important than anything else really. It greases the wheels. Enables the whole thing to keep rolling along. It gets you promoted. It proves you are right with god. Being right with the workers is more important than being right with god. But to the workers it is one and the same. Its a cult in other words. I have always resisted referring to the fellowship as a cult but I have to admit that system-worship is a cult. That's not to say everyone in the fellowship is in a cult. It depends whether your focus is a kingdom of men or God enthroned within you. So you can be right in a church system that isn’t, once you know it isn’t right? Why would you want to stay?
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