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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2023 20:33:03 GMT -5
Your focus is on the sin of adultery. My focus is on “neither do I condemn thee”. Being a sinner yourself, as Jesus wasn’t, I find your focus reprehensible. Same with Wally and friends who won’t see beyond the written word to see Jesus.
I don't focus on any sin, but I do acknowledge what it is and don't pretend it doesn't exist. I agree that the repentant sinner is not condemned, but Jesus also told her to go and sin no more.. Apparently it mattered to Jesus, so it matters to me. Consider that your reluctance to acknowledge sin might be what's reprehensible?
Where did you learn about Jesus? The gospels of course.. So how exactly do you see beyond the written word to see Jesus? "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us" (John 1). His word is revealed through scripture, I wouldn't trust anything your seeing beyond his inspired Word.
It's not Christ she's seeing...
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Post by margaret on Jul 8, 2023 20:50:34 GMT -5
Used as subject or direct object or indirect object of a verb or object of a preposition usually in reference to 'a lifeless thing'. Merriam-webster won't help in this case... Actually it’s more honest than your own opinion in the “it” matter, sad to say. But I am sure you have the “it” that qualifies you to judge others who in your opinion, don’t have your it. Sounds a lot like the overseer influence has rubbed off well in the truth. Something to stay away from.
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Post by margaret on Jul 8, 2023 20:51:54 GMT -5
I don't focus on any sin, but I do acknowledge what it is and don't pretend it doesn't exist. I agree that the repentant sinner is not condemned, but Jesus also told her to go and sin no more.. Apparently it mattered to Jesus, so it matters to me. Consider that your reluctance to acknowledge sin might be what's reprehensible?
Where did you learn about Jesus? The gospels of course.. So how exactly do you see beyond the written word to see Jesus? "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us" (John 1). His word is revealed through scripture, I wouldn't trust anything your seeing beyond his inspired Word.
It's not Christ she's seeing... Wally, it’s not your Christ that I want by any means. It’s THE Christ. But you don’t get “it”.
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Post by margaret on Jul 8, 2023 21:06:32 GMT -5
I see zero in you, do tell how you got to that place especially as an Elder... Because he is not like you maybe..... Thank God for that
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Post by margaret on Jul 8, 2023 21:13:29 GMT -5
To make this statement I don't think you have read my posts very carefully. "We will disagree because I believe the bible clearly says that adultery is wrong" When did I say adultery was wrong or right?. What I said was adultery is the breaking of unity or more specifically echad. I doubt Jesus said anything much before he was 1yr old like most babies, unless you were there to confirm otherwise?. John 1 is commentary on the creation poem in Genesis. Sex outside of marriage encompasses a lot of people, this also includes both parties being unmarried, you may want to reword your post of this doesn't represent your position as I specifically asked you "And any sex outside of a man and women who are married to each other is adultery?" and you said correct. I managed to sum up your argument as you agreed with my summation, can you sum up mine? maybe this will help you understand what I actually said and what I didn't say regardless wether you agree or disagree with me. Paul lived in a different culture, why cherry pick a handful of things in his culture to apply to your life, Paul also told slaves to obey their masters, are you ok with that today?. Homosexuality is beginning to be accepted in this culture like slavery was accepted in Paul's culture.........learn to seperate culture from intent of scripture.......its the same as the adultery and fornication concepts, they are concepts of intent in a given culture that can be applied at any given time, cultures change but yet yourself amongst many others hand pick parts of a old culture that you don't even really understand and opress people with it today with the wrong intent. Its a recipe for disaster as it guilts and shames millions of people for no reason other than ignorance and selfishness and this religous furver has brought hell to many lives unnecessarily. Adultery could be mental abuse in marriage, you still don't understand the concept
I understand what your saying. What I meant by saying "Correct" was in response to the first sentence of your post below;
"To make sure I'm understanding you correctly. You think any sex is a sin except between a man and a women are married to each other?" My answer to that was "Correct". "And any sex outside of a man and women who are married to each other is adultery?" I misunderstood this portion, I thought you meant that any sex outside the confines of a married couple is adultery. But my answer to sex between unmarried single people is that its fornication, not adultery. Both are sins, adultery being the worse.
Slavery or indentured servitude was not a sin in the bible, the fact that it doesn't exist anymore is a moot point. Cultures change, God doesn't. Engaging in homosexuality was a sin back then and still is, no culture can change what God ordained, but they sure can ignore Him. The conviction of the Holy Spirit is what brings guilt and shame when the law is violated.
Adultery is not mental abuse, although the repercussions of an unfaithful mate can bring on mental anguish and regret.
Adultery can be spiritually applicable too, in the sense of separation from ones unity with God. Revelation mentions all those who will be deceived and fornicate with the Great VVhore of Babylon. The bible mentions all of Israel becoming an "Adulterous Nation", by breaking the law "Thou shalt have no other gods before me".
God himself charged Israel with adultery; "How can I pardon thee? thy children have forsaken me, and sworn by them that are no gods: when I had fed them to the full, they committed adultery, and assembled themselves in troops at the harlots' houses" (Jeremiah 5:7).. God even divorced the Northern Tribes, "She saw that for all the adulteries of that faithless one, Israel, I had sent her away with a decree of divorce. Yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but she too went and played the lady vvhore" (Jeremiah 3:8 ESV).
**Just noticed that automatic spell check changed the VVhore of Babylon to "Lady"... She's No Lady!
Yet Jesus said harlots and publicans would be in heaven before YOU. Because you can understand that adultery is wrong but you don’t understand the neither do I condemn you spirit of Jesus. You can speak about the go and sin no more that Jesus spoke of while you’re a sinner yourself. The hypocrisy never ends. 🤢
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Post by margaret on Jul 8, 2023 21:20:39 GMT -5
What a clueless response to a reasonable request! I see zero in you, do tell how you got to that place especially as an Elder... Anyone can be an elder these days, Wally. Absolutely anyone. UNLESS their wife cuts her hair and unless they ask hard questions and refuse to be a yes-man when God says no. Fixit at least has “it” enough to understand these things.
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Post by margaret on Jul 8, 2023 21:34:36 GMT -5
Your focus is on the sin of adultery. My focus is on “neither do I condemn thee”. Being a sinner yourself, as Jesus wasn’t, I find your focus reprehensible. Same with Wally and friends who won’t see beyond the written word to see Jesus. Not all that concerned what you think Margaret, you are no more noble than anyone else here and you are more than hypocritical on the judgment thing... I have no interest in portraying myself as noble. Do you see any hypocrisy and judgemental behaviour in yourself? You’re the one who thinks you have “it” yet you’re judgmental opinions and hypocrisy says otherwise. Whatever “it” is that you have doesn’t attract anyone to your church. That doesn’t concern you, does it?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2023 21:43:56 GMT -5
It's not Christ she's seeing... Wally, it’s not your Christ that I want by any means. It’s THE Christ. But you don’t get “it”. There is only one Christ he's everybody's Christ, that you don't get that is not surprising...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2023 21:44:28 GMT -5
Merriam-webster won't help in this case... Actually it’s more honest than your own opinion in the “it” matter, sad to say. But I am sure you have the “it” that qualifies you to judge others who in your opinion, don’t have your it. Sounds a lot like the overseer influence has rubbed off well in the truth. Something to stay away from. NAMI they can help...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2023 21:46:35 GMT -5
I see zero in you, do tell how you got to that place especially as an Elder... Anyone can be an elder these days, Wally. Absolutely anyone. UNLESS their wife cuts her hair and unless they ask hard questions and refuse to be a yes-man when God says no. Fixit at least has “it” enough to understand these things. You are seriously confused in your choice of a human "Christian" hero...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2023 21:51:53 GMT -5
Not all that concerned what you think Margaret, you are no more noble than anyone else here and you are more than hypocritical on the judgment thing... I have no interest in portraying myself as noble. Do you see any hypocrisy and judgemental behaviour in yourself? You’re the one who thinks you have “it” yet you’re judgmental opinions and hypocrisy says otherwise. Whatever “it” is that you have doesn’t attract anyone to your church. That doesn’t concern you, does it? *judgmental *behavior Sounds like what a narcissist might say to their next victim...NAMI they can help...
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Post by Dan on Jul 9, 2023 0:08:46 GMT -5
'It' is the Truth.. Some people knew and accepted Christ, but then left him. Others have never had 'it' because they haven't spiritual eyes to see or ears to hear 'it' .. " Pilate saith unto him, What is truth?" (John 18:38). 'It' (the Truth) was standing right in front of Pilate, but he was blind as a bat.
But are you able to see yourself as Pilate? Blind as a bat? Actually Pilate wasn’t blind as a bat. He knew what he was doing but he was persuaded by the majority of FRIENDS who wanted Jesus put to death. The Jesus that DIDN’T support their views. Not ALL the friends because a few “got it” and loved the unconventional and unconforming Jesus. You love conformity in the truth which becomes stale real fast. If you and Wally only see yourself as people who have the approval of Jesus because you staunchly support the way (as in the system) then you’re blind as a bat and you don’t have the IT that you think you do. What Jesus had to say about those that figured they had “it”, was this “search the scriptures for in it you THINK you have eternal life.” But I think you search the scriptures to find things to support your thinking. Oh well. Can’t make a blind man see.
Pilate didn't recognize who Jesus was, nor did he believe Jesus. Even though he found no fault in Jesus, who broke no Roman laws, he washed his hands of the whole ordeal, succumbed to public pressure, and ordered his execution.
I love conformity in the sense that I love the Truth. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life" (John 14:6). The Truth is Christ, not a church or system. My allegiance is to my Savior and no other. Any Christian strives to follow the teachings and example of Christ, its that simple, and that's 'IT' in a nut shell. You seem convinced that my faith is in a specific church or belief system, but such is not the case.
Trust me, much of what I find in scripture doesn't support my way of thinking, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" (2 Timothy 3:16). I search the scriptures for understanding, and any good bible teaching church is good with me.
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Post by fixit on Jul 9, 2023 1:00:02 GMT -5
You pretend ignorance but you just revealed you do know what IT is. If you've followed the convo thus far you would know what IT is, What is the usual convo that revolves around on TMB too? Gaslighting won't help you at all... Explain what "IT" is? Self righteousness?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2023 1:55:52 GMT -5
You might mention that "having IT" is self-righteousness in Sunday meeting this morning you only have 3.5 hours left till it starts, elder.
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Post by guest8 on Jul 9, 2023 2:12:07 GMT -5
You might mention that "having IT" is self-righteousness in Sunday meeting this morning you only have 3.5 hours left till it starts, elder. 3.5 hrs here in N.Z. will be 10.40pm.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2023 3:55:49 GMT -5
You might mention that "having IT" is self-righteousness in Sunday meeting this morning you only have 3.5 hours left till it starts, elder. 3.5 hrs here in N.Z. will be 10.40pm. Oops, timeanddate.com messed it up read it wrong... Our morning is your night same day. Our afternoon is your morning next day...
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Post by chuck on Jul 9, 2023 7:44:41 GMT -5
To me that means being generous to yourself...so you are probably right.
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Post by chuck on Jul 9, 2023 7:49:08 GMT -5
'It' is the Truth.. Some people knew and accepted Christ, but then left him. Others have never had 'it' because they haven't spiritual eyes to see or ears to hear 'it' .. " Pilate saith unto him, What is truth?" (John 18:38). 'It' (the Truth) was standing right in front of Pilate, but he was blind as a bat.
That's what a fundamentalist has to say. Hebrew people thought function not form, in other words they were not fundamentalists and Jesus would not have had a clue what you were on about.....
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Post by chuck on Jul 9, 2023 8:14:04 GMT -5
You used to know have you forgotten so quickly Hebraic scholar? Can you explain it or not?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2023 8:35:57 GMT -5
You used to know have you forgotten so quickly Hebraic scholar? Can you explain it or not? Here chuckite this should help, Mat_7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
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Post by Dan on Jul 9, 2023 11:08:35 GMT -5
'It' is the Truth.. Some people knew and accepted Christ, but then left him. Others have never had 'it' because they haven't spiritual eyes to see or ears to hear 'it' .. " Pilate saith unto him, What is truth?" (John 18:38). 'It' (the Truth) was standing right in front of Pilate, but he was blind as a bat.
That's what a fundamentalist has to say. Hebrew people thought function not form, in other words they were not fundamentalists and Jesus would not have had a clue what you were on about.....
Your redefining everything that's written so that it fits some alternative message. You claim Jesus was a 'type' and not a real character, while simultaneously claiming the Hebrews thought 'function' and not 'form'. Jesus wasn't a 'form', he came to manifest the Word (God) in the flesh. That literal manifestation was 100% function. His sacrifice was not some 'form' that represented something else, every drop of blood he shed was real, and it was necessary to redeem believers.. That's real living function, not an illusion, hyperbole, or a metaphor. Your reinterpretation turns the truth into a fairy tale.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2023 11:15:27 GMT -5
That's what a fundamentalist has to say. Hebrew people thought function not form, in other words they were not fundamentalists and Jesus would not have had a clue what you were on about.....
Your redefining everything that's written so that it fits some alternative message. You claim Jesus was a 'type' and not a real character, while simultaneously claiming the Hebrews thought 'function' and not 'form'. Jesus wasn't a 'form', he came to manifest the Word (God) in the flesh. That literal manifestation was 100% function. His sacrifice was not some 'form' that represented something else, every drop of blood he shed was real, and it was necessary to redeem believers.. That's real living function, not an illusion, hyperbole, or a metaphor. Your reinterpretation turns the truth into a fairy tale.
BOOOMMM!!!
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Post by snow on Jul 9, 2023 12:35:20 GMT -5
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Post by margaret on Jul 9, 2023 19:34:25 GMT -5
But are you able to see yourself as Pilate? Blind as a bat? Actually Pilate wasn’t blind as a bat. He knew what he was doing but he was persuaded by the majority of FRIENDS who wanted Jesus put to death. The Jesus that DIDN’T support their views. Not ALL the friends because a few “got it” and loved the unconventional and unconforming Jesus. You love conformity in the truth which becomes stale real fast. If you and Wally only see yourself as people who have the approval of Jesus because you staunchly support the way (as in the system) then you’re blind as a bat and you don’t have the IT that you think you do. What Jesus had to say about those that figured they had “it”, was this “search the scriptures for in it you THINK you have eternal life.” But I think you search the scriptures to find things to support your thinking. Oh well. Can’t make a blind man see.
Pilate didn't recognize who Jesus was, nor did he believe Jesus. Even though he found no fault in Jesus, who broke no Roman laws, he washed his hands of the whole ordeal, succumbed to public pressure, and ordered his execution.
I love conformity in the sense that I love the Truth. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life" (John 14:6). The Truth is Christ, not a church or system. My allegiance is to my Savior and no other. Any Christian strives to follow the teachings and example of Christ, its that simple, and that's 'IT' in a nut shell. You seem convinced that my faith is in a specific church or belief system, but such is not the case.
Trust me, much of what I find in scripture doesn't support my way of thinking, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" (2 Timothy 3:16). I search the scriptures for understanding, and any good bible teaching church is good with me.
Pilate knew who Jesus was. He knew he was the messiah and he knew he was innocent. He didn’t believe Jesus any more than you would if Jesus came in the same manner today as he did then, because Jesus didn’t support the chief priests and elders and the majority in the church as you and Wally blindly do. (Wally more than you).
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Post by margaret on Jul 9, 2023 19:35:05 GMT -5
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Post by chuck on Jul 9, 2023 19:43:57 GMT -5
That's what a fundamentalist has to say. Hebrew people thought function not form, in other words they were not fundamentalists and Jesus would not have had a clue what you were on about.....
Your redefining everything that's written so that it fits some alternative message. You claim Jesus was a 'type' and not a real character, while simultaneously claiming the Hebrews thought 'function' and not 'form'. Jesus wasn't a 'form', he came to manifest the Word (God) in the flesh. That literal manifestation was 100% function. His sacrifice was not some 'form' that represented something else, every drop of blood he shed was real, and it was necessary to redeem believers.. That's real living function, not an illusion, hyperbole, or a metaphor. Your reinterpretation turns the truth into a fairy tale.
You are conceptualising the words the way the RCC wanted people to. It's your opinion I have redefined things but if you actually set aside the things you have been taught and look at it objectively you may see what I have been saying comes before the westerners actually redefined things......its older than you have been taught You are starting with you conclusion that what you are saying has never been redefined......you don't know what you dont know.......
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2023 19:45:49 GMT -5
It was a tie between Spider-man and Thor in my comic book collection when young....
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2023 19:47:04 GMT -5
Pilate didn't recognize who Jesus was, nor did he believe Jesus. Even though he found no fault in Jesus, who broke no Roman laws, he washed his hands of the whole ordeal, succumbed to public pressure, and ordered his execution.
I love conformity in the sense that I love the Truth. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life" (John 14:6). The Truth is Christ, not a church or system. My allegiance is to my Savior and no other. Any Christian strives to follow the teachings and example of Christ, its that simple, and that's 'IT' in a nut shell. You seem convinced that my faith is in a specific church or belief system, but such is not the case.
Trust me, much of what I find in scripture doesn't support my way of thinking, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" (2 Timothy 3:16). I search the scriptures for understanding, and any good bible teaching church is good with me.
Pilate knew who Jesus was. He knew he was the messiah and he knew he was innocent. He didn’t believe Jesus any more than you would if Jesus came in the same manner today as he did then, because Jesus didn’t support the chief priests and elders and the majority in the church as you and Wally blindly do. (Wally more than you). Your delusions are your own, time to get help. NAMI give them call...
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