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Post by fixit on Jun 29, 2023 21:13:50 GMT -5
I have always resisted referring to the fellowship as a cult but I have to admit that system-worship is a cult. That's not to say everyone in the fellowship is in a cult. It depends whether your focus is a kingdom of men or God enthroned within you. So you can be right in a church system that isn’t, once you know it isn’t right? Why would you want to stay? TMB is not "right" is it? Yet I stay here.
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Post by Admin on Jun 29, 2023 22:38:45 GMT -5
3- Its evident that ALL the F/W are infected to some degree by this doctrine of “the spirit.” It is everywhere. You’ll hear people talk about a “spirit led ministry”. It ought to be a “Christ led ministry”. Perhaps that’s a subtle change in wording but a major change in focus. This doctrine of discerning the “spirit” is deadly. For a perp, all they need do is pray, flogging themselves mentally enough to achieve some level of remorse and then declare themselves fully repented with their “spirit” as evidence. For O/S’s, they accept their own judgement of someone’s “spirit” as evidence of repentance and then take steps to ignore the need for anything more. This is the root of how it all happens. It’s not a big step from this to dedicated SA/CSA. To illustrate how ludicrous this is, think about an AA meeting where you can bypass the opening admission and just declare how sorry you are. Imagine everyone accepting this as adequate effort for a drunk. 4- This doctrine is inexorably moving this fellowship towards mainstream Christianity. You need only read the Apostles creed to understand. There is no mention there of the 30+ years of Jesus’ example and teaching. Also not mentioned is the Love of God. They give a whole line to reference a single obscure verse about him descending into hell but nothing about literally pages devoted to his life. Like fixit, I think we're kind of on the same page (about 'spirit'-led rather than Spirit-led)! Thank you for putting it so clearly in words. Yes, a sprit-led ministry instead of Spirit-led or Christ-led. Seems peeps can do what they want fur as long as they want as long as they have a nice spirit. Having the Spirit perps never would've abused anyone in the first place. But they do because they have a nice spirit. Certainly on the same page with jonathan. A truly Spirit-led believer would never abuse any child or sister worker for instance. Words of Jesus regarding the Holy Spirit (John 16): 12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.” In other words, direct from the lips of Jesus, there is much more for us to know of following God and that "much more" will be revealed to us by the Holy Spirit, who will glorify Jesus "because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you." So your point 4, about "the 30+ years of Jesus’ example and teaching" - in the Acts of the Apostles, the setting up of the church and ministry of believers is not based on the 30+ years of Jesus’ example and teaching, but rather on the leading of the Holy Spirit, proving the truth in Jesus' words in John 16 (quoted above). As jonathan implies, if the F&W church is to be a true godly church (maybe, hopefully, 'getting back to its roots' - but I'm not so sure), it must be based on the truth in Jesus' words about the Holy Spirit in those last ch's of John.
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Post by getreal on Jun 29, 2023 23:30:25 GMT -5
So you can be right in a church system that isn’t, once you know it isn’t right? Why would you want to stay? TMB is not "right" is it? Yet I stay here. As far as I know it isn’t a church offering salvation
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Post by chuck on Jun 29, 2023 23:51:28 GMT -5
TMB is not "right" is it? Yet I stay here. As far as I know it isn’t a church offering salvation Fixit seems to be able to recognise the customs of the system for what they are and does not seem to put the customs over and above things that are more important like the concern for cultish aspects or the concern for improper behaviour. When in this order there is absolutely nothing wrong with practising the customs of one's choosing regardless of what anyone else thinks them. What do you mean by salvation?.
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Post by margaret on Jun 30, 2023 0:01:13 GMT -5
Which overseer? Which state? Does it matter? Revealing mine will reveal me and I’m not ready for that yet. But I will challenge any overseer in any state to show themselves different. To admit that they can’t tell who has the spirit and who doesn’t. That would go a long way toward putting the focus back on applying the teachings of Jesus regardless of who has what spirit. it’s good to know there are friends who aren’t blindly following the leaders who cause the people to err. Thanks for your posts Mac and all the more power to you in your endeavours. Isaiah 9:16 For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed.
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Post by fixit on Jun 30, 2023 1:45:34 GMT -5
TMB is not "right" is it? Yet I stay here. As far as I know it isn’t a church offering salvation Ahh... you're looking for a church that offers salvation.
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Post by fixit on Jun 30, 2023 1:50:03 GMT -5
A truly Spirit-led believer would never abuse any child or sister worker for instance. True. A one-true-way 2x2 worker meeting-in-homes believer might though. A whitewashed tomb.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2023 3:39:14 GMT -5
As far as I know it isn’t a church offering salvation Fixit seems to be able to recognise the customs of the system for what they are and does not seem to put the customs over and above things that are more important like the concern for cultish aspects or the concern for improper behaviour. When in this order there is absolutely nothing wrong with practising the customs of one's choosing regardless of what anyone else thinks them. What do you mean by salvation?. Don't worry chuck, fixit is a solid chuckism convert...
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Post by chuck on Jun 30, 2023 3:53:19 GMT -5
Fixit seems to be able to recognise the customs of the system for what they are and does not seem to put the customs over and above things that are more important like the concern for cultish aspects or the concern for improper behaviour. When in this order there is absolutely nothing wrong with practising the customs of one's choosing regardless of what anyone else thinks them. What do you mean by salvation?. Don't worry chuck, fixit is a solid chuckism convert... Lucky for him because he will burn in hell if he doesn't see it like me..........
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Post by fixit on Jun 30, 2023 4:12:08 GMT -5
Don't worry chuck, fixit is a solid chuckism convert... Lucky for him because he will burn in hell if he doesn't see it like me.......... I thought that was Wally's doctrine...
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Post by chuck on Jun 30, 2023 4:17:14 GMT -5
Lucky for him because he will burn in hell if he doesn't see it like me.......... I thought that was Wally's doctrine... Apparently im the one looking to convert people so I thought I should at least try to play the part.....wally doesn't have the guts to tell his truth....... To be a true chuckite fixit you must pat your head and rub your tummy in circles at the same time!, standing to your feet is a bit boring....
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Post by chuck on Jun 30, 2023 4:21:05 GMT -5
oh and I promise I won't make you drink coolaid fixit
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2023 7:30:00 GMT -5
oh and I promise I won't make you drink coolaid fixit *Kool-Aid Too late that chuckite ship has done sailed...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2023 7:42:50 GMT -5
Don't worry chuck, fixit is a solid chuckism convert... Lucky for him because he will burn in hell if he doesn't see it like me.......... I think the warmth will comfort you both...
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Post by chuck on Jun 30, 2023 19:56:43 GMT -5
Lucky for him because he will burn in hell if he doesn't see it like me.......... I think the warmth will comfort you both... Have you been there?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2023 20:00:15 GMT -5
I think the warmth will comfort you both... Have you been there? Jesus described it have you forgotten Luke 16 chuckite? Again? Uh oh surprise headed your way...
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Post by chuck on Jun 30, 2023 20:22:25 GMT -5
Jesus described it have you forgotten Luke 16 chuckite? Again? Uh oh surprise headed your way... Renaissance art is the lense..... The hubris you show thinking you are so right you can tell people their headed to such a place stinks.....
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2023 20:35:25 GMT -5
Jesus described it have you forgotten Luke 16 chuckite? Again? Uh oh surprise headed your way... Renaissance art is the lense..... The hubris you show thinking you are so right you can tell people their headed to such a place stinks..... Your abandonment of Christ and Christianity and trying to drag others down with you is a bit stinky too. Try lume it might help or not. Luke 16, its gonna happen...
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Post by chuck on Jun 30, 2023 20:49:17 GMT -5
Renaissance art is the lense..... The hubris you show thinking you are so right you can tell people their headed to such a place stinks..... Your abandonment of Christ and Christianity and trying to drag others down with you is a bit stinky too. Try lume it might help or not. Luke 16, its gonna happen... Christ and Christianity=wally.......
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2023 21:21:35 GMT -5
Your abandonment of Christ and Christianity and trying to drag others down with you is a bit stinky too. Try lume it might help or not. Luke 16, its gonna happen... Christ and Christianity=wally....... If you think that you are in bigger trouble than I thought, there may be no cure for you...Sorry Chuckite.
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Post by fixit on Jun 30, 2023 21:29:55 GMT -5
Christ and Christianity=wally....... If you think that you are in bigger trouble than I thought, there may be no cure for you...Sorry Chuckite. Trusting in the scriptures doesn't give you the love of God in your heart Wally. John 5:39 “You search the scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life, and it is they that testify on my behalf. 40 Yet you refuse to come to me to have life. 41 I do not accept glory from humans. 42 But I know that you do not have the love of God in you. 43 I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; if another comes in his own name, you will accept him. 44 How can you believe when you accept glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the one who alone is God?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2023 21:35:46 GMT -5
If you think that you are in bigger trouble than I thought, there may be no cure for you...Sorry Chuckite. Trusting in the scriptures doesn't give you the love of God in your heart Wally. John 5:39 “You search the scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life, and it is they that testify on my behalf. 40 Yet you refuse to come to me to have life. 41 I do not accept glory from humans. 42 But I know that you do not have the love of God in you. 43 I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; if another comes in his own name, you will accept him. 44 How can you believe when you accept glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the one who alone is God? Projection on your part like clockwork...
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Post by chuck on Jun 30, 2023 22:11:34 GMT -5
Christ and Christianity=wally....... If you think that you are in bigger trouble than I thought, there may be no cure for you...Sorry Chuckite. Well that's a new one, because I don't see it like you I need a cure...... That's kinda relevant to the title of this thread.....
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2023 23:46:42 GMT -5
If you think that you are in bigger trouble than I thought, there may be no cure for you...Sorry Chuckite. Well that's a new one, because I don't see it like you I need a cure...... That's kinda relevant to the title of this thread..... I do try and stay on topic... You do make it hard to though...
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Post by chuck on Jul 1, 2023 0:08:28 GMT -5
Well that's a new one, because I don't see it like you I need a cure...... That's kinda relevant to the title of this thread..... I do try and stay on topic... You do make it hard to though... It cuts to the core doctrinal problem of the workers. See it like us, we have the cure.......Im surprised they knocked you back really.
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Post by Dan on Jul 1, 2023 1:06:11 GMT -5
Well that's a new one, because I don't see it like you I need a cure...... That's kinda relevant to the title of this thread..... I do try and stay on topic... You do make it hard to though...
The answer to "The Doctrinal Root of the Matter" is laid out in 1 Corinthians 7, any sex is restricted to marriage, the rest is sin.. Its that simple. Those who ignore that passage are not spiritually led, or they've independently decided to flat-out ignore or disregard what the spirit and scripture teach. We all do that on occasion, but when its done with flagrant disregard for others and victimizes a brother/sister, or worse an innocent child, then that person should be excommunicated immediately (Mark 9: 42-43).
Since all scripture is inspired by the Spirit of God (2 Timothy 3:16), adhering to the written word is being spiritually led.
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Post by Annan on Jul 1, 2023 8:15:37 GMT -5
Another holier-than-thou. I'm going to run out of gold stars.
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Post by chuck on Jul 1, 2023 9:04:44 GMT -5
I do try and stay on topic... You do make it hard to though...
The answer to "The Doctrinal Root of the Matter" is laid out in 1 Corinthians 7, any sex is restricted to marriage, the rest is sin.. Its that simple. Those who ignore that passage are not spiritually led, or they've independently decided to flat-out ignore or disregard what the spirit and scripture teach. We all do that on occasion, but when its done with flagrant disregard for others and victimizes a brother/sister, or worse an innocent child, then that person should be excommunicated immediately (Mark 9: 42-43).
Since all scripture is inspired by the Spirit of God (2 Timothy 3:16), adhering to the written word is being spiritually led.
As usual no original context and typical religious judgement. To the Hebrew people the family unit was of utmost importance, this is why in the Noah story he was perfect in his generation, he kept his family together and functional, now sleeping around getting women pregnant with no intention of marriage had all sorts of implications in this culture for this type of conduct that you have no idea about and that we do not practice today. 2 things, contraception has been developed and two adults engaging in consensual activity is not a sin. Stop parroting religious nonsense and be a bit more informed before implying people are sinners for not living up to YOUR misinformed standards. What other customs do you insist people keep from before the 1st century that are no longer practiced today?.
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