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Post by chuck on Jul 9, 2023 19:58:29 GMT -5
while some people's God(insert religous system here) lets their chosen ones fiddle with the kids all because it's all in his time.....his time being sweeping it under the rug for as long as possible ....... I like Thor better!.
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Post by chuck on Jul 9, 2023 20:06:18 GMT -5
Pilate didn't recognize who Jesus was, nor did he believe Jesus. Even though he found no fault in Jesus, who broke no Roman laws, he washed his hands of the whole ordeal, succumbed to public pressure, and ordered his execution.
I love conformity in the sense that I love the Truth. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life" (John 14:6). The Truth is Christ, not a church or system. My allegiance is to my Savior and no other. Any Christian strives to follow the teachings and example of Christ, its that simple, and that's 'IT' in a nut shell. You seem convinced that my faith is in a specific church or belief system, but such is not the case.
Trust me, much of what I find in scripture doesn't support my way of thinking, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" (2 Timothy 3:16). I search the scriptures for understanding, and any good bible teaching church is good with me.
Pilate knew who Jesus was. He knew he was the messiah and he knew he was innocent. He didn’t believe Jesus any more than you would if Jesus came in the same manner today as he did then, because Jesus didn’t support the chief priests and elders and the majority in the church as you and Wally blindly do. (Wally more than you). The religious nutters are too busy being busybodies seeing if they can catch some doing the hanky panky........only to find Jesus didn't care for their religious nutjobbery anyway.........no wonder they wanted him gone..........does this sound familiar?. I mean it takes a special kind of nutter to go and catch someone in the act......no wonder Jesus didn't have much patience with religious nutters of his day.......
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Post by snow on Jul 10, 2023 13:50:46 GMT -5
while some people's God(insert religous system here) lets their chosen ones fiddle with the kids all because it's all in his time.....his time being sweeping it under the rug for as long as possible ....... I like Thor better!. A lot of what is happening in the group is because of long held beliefs that suffering is God's way of 'refining' us. Testing us. But there are also the mindset that calling out egregious behavior is sowing dissension and division. I read a list of things on another site that is believed and spouted by the workers and friends. It's not much wonder that CSA/SA has been thrown under the rug and not talked about when they hold these types of mindsets. God works through suffering. So when we try to stop abuse and suffering, we are trying to take things into our own hands…
The horrific things in the group can't be stopped and it's our job to become 'softened' and become more Christlike from the suffering we endure. That the only thing needed to recover from CSA is to forgive and forget. And when we are unwilling for that, we never find healing. We need to be willing for the humble way - and the simplicity of Jesus heals everything
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Post by verna on Jul 10, 2023 13:58:36 GMT -5
while some people's God(insert religous system here) lets their chosen ones fiddle with the kids all because it's all in his time.....his time being sweeping it under the rug for as long as possible ....... I like Thor better!. A lot of what is happening in the group is because of long held beliefs that suffering is God's way of 'refining' us. Testing us. But there are also the mindset that calling out egregious behavior is sowing dissension and division. I read a list of things on another site that is believed and spouted by the workers and friends. It's not much wonder that CSA/SA has been thrown under the rug and not talked about when they hold these types of mindsets. God works through suffering. So when we try to stop abuse and suffering, we are trying to take things into our own hands…
The horrific things in the group can't be stopped and it's our job to become 'softened' and become more Christlike from the suffering we endure. That the only thing needed to recover from CSA is to forgive and forget. And when we are unwilling for that, we never find healing. We need to be willing for the humble way - and the simplicity of Jesus heals everything OMG! This is frightening- but I think this is absolutely the mindset.
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Post by fixit on Jul 10, 2023 14:09:10 GMT -5
while some people's God(insert religous system here) lets their chosen ones fiddle with the kids all because it's all in his time.....his time being sweeping it under the rug for as long as possible ....... I like Thor better!. A lot of what is happening in the group is because of long held beliefs that suffering is God's way of 'refining' us. Testing us. But there are also the mindset that calling out egregious behavior is sowing dissension and division. I read a list of things on another site that is believed and spouted by the workers and friends. It's not much wonder that CSA/SA has been thrown under the rug and not talked about when they hold these types of mindsets. God works through suffering. So when we try to stop abuse and suffering, we are trying to take things into our own hands…
The horrific things in the group can't be stopped and it's our job to become 'softened' and become more Christlike from the suffering we endure. That the only thing needed to recover from CSA is to forgive and forget. And when we are unwilling for that, we never find healing. We need to be willing for the humble way - and the simplicity of Jesus heals everything Please tell us where you saw that. Those people seem to want to be members of a sex cult. 1 Corinthians 5:9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral persons, 10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since you would then need to go out of the world. 11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother or sister who is sexually immoral or greedy or an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler. Do not even eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging those outside? Are you not judges of those who are inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Drive out the wicked person from among you.”
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Post by snow on Jul 10, 2023 14:25:26 GMT -5
A lot of what is happening in the group is because of long held beliefs that suffering is God's way of 'refining' us. Testing us. But there are also the mindset that calling out egregious behavior is sowing dissension and division. I read a list of things on another site that is believed and spouted by the workers and friends. It's not much wonder that CSA/SA has been thrown under the rug and not talked about when they hold these types of mindsets. God works through suffering. So when we try to stop abuse and suffering, we are trying to take things into our own hands…
The horrific things in the group can't be stopped and it's our job to become 'softened' and become more Christlike from the suffering we endure. That the only thing needed to recover from CSA is to forgive and forget. And when we are unwilling for that, we never find healing. We need to be willing for the humble way - and the simplicity of Jesus heals everything OMG! This is frightening- but I think this is absolutely the mindset. When I read it I was horrified. But I do remember being taught that suffering was God's way of testing us. I suppose the word soften is appropriate. I remember one sermon that talked about how we needed to be willing to take intensive heat so that we became refined like gold. Now as an adult that particular sermon makes no sense to be.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2023 14:27:55 GMT -5
A lot of what is happening in the group is because of long held beliefs that suffering is God's way of 'refining' us. Testing us. But there are also the mindset that calling out egregious behavior is sowing dissension and division. I read a list of things on another site that is believed and spouted by the workers and friends. It's not much wonder that CSA/SA has been thrown under the rug and not talked about when they hold these types of mindsets. God works through suffering. So when we try to stop abuse and suffering, we are trying to take things into our own hands…
The horrific things in the group can't be stopped and it's our job to become 'softened' and become more Christlike from the suffering we endure. That the only thing needed to recover from CSA is to forgive and forget. And when we are unwilling for that, we never find healing. We need to be willing for the humble way - and the simplicity of Jesus heals everything Please tell us where you saw that. Those people seem to want to be members of a sex cult. 1 Corinthians 5:9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral persons, 10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since you would then need to go out of the world. 11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother or sister who is sexually immoral or greedy or an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler. Do not even eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging those outside? Are you not judges of those who are inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Drive out the wicked person from among you.”Are you a biblian now?
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Post by snow on Jul 10, 2023 14:28:47 GMT -5
A lot of what is happening in the group is because of long held beliefs that suffering is God's way of 'refining' us. Testing us. But there are also the mindset that calling out egregious behavior is sowing dissension and division. I read a list of things on another site that is believed and spouted by the workers and friends. It's not much wonder that CSA/SA has been thrown under the rug and not talked about when they hold these types of mindsets. God works through suffering. So when we try to stop abuse and suffering, we are trying to take things into our own hands…
The horrific things in the group can't be stopped and it's our job to become 'softened' and become more Christlike from the suffering we endure. That the only thing needed to recover from CSA is to forgive and forget. And when we are unwilling for that, we never find healing. We need to be willing for the humble way - and the simplicity of Jesus heals everything Please tell us where you saw that. Those people seem to want to be members of a sex cult. 1 Corinthians 5:9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral persons, 10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since you would then need to go out of the world. 11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother or sister who is sexually immoral or greedy or an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler. Do not even eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging those outside? Are you not judges of those who are inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Drive out the wicked person from among you.”It was on a fb group but it wouldn't be right to name names. They were talking about things they'd heard preached by the workers and while I remember sermons about suffering was a test to become more Christlike etc. I had never heard the rest of them. Mind you I haven't been in a meeting since 1973 so I probably missed a lot. I would think the ones about CSA would not have been preached from the 'pulpit' but something said to a survivor of CSA when they reported it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2023 14:32:04 GMT -5
Please tell us where you saw that. Those people seem to want to be members of a sex cult. 1 Corinthians 5:9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral persons, 10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since you would then need to go out of the world. 11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother or sister who is sexually immoral or greedy or an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler. Do not even eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging those outside? Are you not judges of those who are inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Drive out the wicked person from among you.”It was on a fb group but it wouldn't be right to name names. They were talking about things they'd heard preached by the workers and while I remember sermons about suffering was a test to become more Christlike etc. I had never heard the rest of them. Mind you I haven't been in a meeting since 1973 so I probably missed a lot. I would think the ones about CSA would not have been preached from the 'pulpit' but something said to a survivor of CSA when they reported it. I've heard several times in meetings "God works best with a broken heart." Having been around a bit now, I'd tend to agree with that however unfortunate that might be...
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Post by verna on Jul 10, 2023 14:54:27 GMT -5
It was on a fb group but it wouldn't be right to name names. They were talking about things they'd heard preached by the workers and while I remember sermons about suffering was a test to become more Christlike etc. I had never heard the rest of them. Mind you I haven't been in a meeting since 1973 so I probably missed a lot. I would think the ones about CSA would not have been preached from the 'pulpit' but something said to a survivor of CSA when they reported it. I've heard several times in meetings "God works best with a broken heart." Having been around a bit now, I'd tend to agree with that however unfortunate that might be... It’s a good line until you stop to consider the number of times it has likely been used to silence the cries of the abused.
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Post by snow on Jul 10, 2023 14:58:05 GMT -5
It was on a fb group but it wouldn't be right to name names. They were talking about things they'd heard preached by the workers and while I remember sermons about suffering was a test to become more Christlike etc. I had never heard the rest of them. Mind you I haven't been in a meeting since 1973 so I probably missed a lot. I would think the ones about CSA would not have been preached from the 'pulpit' but something said to a survivor of CSA when they reported it. I've heard several times in meetings "God works best with a broken heart." Having been around a bit now, I'd tend to agree with that however unfortunate that might be... Things that test us can definitely make a stronger person and help us be more empathetic and compassionate towards other who are going through rough times. But for the above things I posted above to be a mindset and an excuse to not report CSA or to not support survivors of CSA, well imo, that's when it becomes horrendous and definitely dangerous.
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Post by fixit on Jul 10, 2023 14:58:54 GMT -5
It was on a fb group but it wouldn't be right to name names. They were talking about things they'd heard preached by the workers and while I remember sermons about suffering was a test to become more Christlike etc. I had never heard the rest of them. Mind you I haven't been in a meeting since 1973 so I probably missed a lot. I would think the ones about CSA would not have been preached from the 'pulpit' but something said to a survivor of CSA when they reported it. I've heard several times in meetings "God works best with a broken heart." Having been around a bit now, I'd tend to agree with that however unfortunate that might be... I stand firmly supportive of those who are working to banish this evil from the fellowship, and firmly against those who minimise, justify or cover up this evil. I want nothing to do with a religious sex cult.
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Post by fixit on Jul 10, 2023 15:04:04 GMT -5
Please tell us where you saw that. Those people seem to want to be members of a sex cult. 1 Corinthians 5:9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral persons, 10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since you would then need to go out of the world. 11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother or sister who is sexually immoral or greedy or an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler. Do not even eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging those outside? Are you not judges of those who are inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Drive out the wicked person from among you.”Are you a biblian now? The bible is a wonderful source of ancient wisdom. Have I ever said otherwise?
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Post by snow on Jul 10, 2023 15:10:40 GMT -5
I've heard several times in meetings "God works best with a broken heart." Having been around a bit now, I'd tend to agree with that however unfortunate that might be... I stand firmly supportive of those who are working to banish this evil from the fellowship, and firmly against those who minimise, justify or cover up this evil. I want nothing to do with a religious sex cult. Thank you for all you do fixit. People like you are working from within the F&W's are going to be the backbone to change if change can happen. Outsiders like the legal system, police and exes can only do so much. Changes need to come from within the group. A widespread unwillingness to let this continue and a willingness to hold the workers accountable if need be.
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Post by fixit on Jul 10, 2023 16:15:36 GMT -5
It was on a fb group but it wouldn't be right to name names. They were talking about things they'd heard preached by the workers and while I remember sermons about suffering was a test to become more Christlike etc. I had never heard the rest of them. Mind you I haven't been in a meeting since 1973 so I probably missed a lot. I would think the ones about CSA would not have been preached from the 'pulpit' but something said to a survivor of CSA when they reported it. What they are missing is that Christlike people are called to bring the kingdom of heaven to earth just as Jesus did. We are called to heal the broken hearted - not create the broken hearted. We are called to BE God's hands to stop abuse and suffering - not create abuse and suffering. We are called to BE a neighbour to those who are suffering - not pass by on the other side of the road. The horrific things in the group are in the process of being stopped and those who are content for the abuse to continue need to go and find an abusive fellowship somewhere else. Whoever made the statement below is desperately lacking in understanding and in the love of God.
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Post by chuck on Jul 10, 2023 16:39:17 GMT -5
OMG! This is frightening- but I think this is absolutely the mindset. When I read it I was horrified. But I do remember being taught that suffering was God's way of testing us. I suppose the word soften is appropriate. I remember one sermon that talked about how we needed to be willing to take intensive heat so that we became refined like gold. Now as an adult that particular sermon makes no sense to be. I would have thought being refined as a petson means you would not tolerate abuse, clearly most people can only relate to the system and not the content of their character because its obvious from what you have pointed out from what I have and am still seeing with my own eyes that being refined is interpreted as doing what's best for the system and those who propagate it. This is a result of making a system your God, and not just religious systems.
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Post by chuck on Jul 10, 2023 16:48:46 GMT -5
I stand firmly supportive of those who are working to banish this evil from the fellowship, and firmly against those who minimise, justify or cover up this evil. I want nothing to do with a religious sex cult. Thank you for all you do fixit. People like you are working from within the F&W's are going to be the backbone to change if change can happen. Outsiders like the legal system, police and exes can only do so much. Changes need to come from within the group. A widespread unwillingness to let this continue and a willingness to hold the workers accountable if need be. I think fixit is the Jesus character in this story, hence why the religious nutters hate him...........
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Post by chuck on Jul 10, 2023 19:40:29 GMT -5
It was on a fb group but it wouldn't be right to name names. They were talking about things they'd heard preached by the workers and while I remember sermons about suffering was a test to become more Christlike etc. I had never heard the rest of them. Mind you I haven't been in a meeting since 1973 so I probably missed a lot. I would think the ones about CSA would not have been preached from the 'pulpit' but something said to a survivor of CSA when they reported it. What they are missing is that Christlike people are called to bring the kingdom of heaven to earth just as Jesus did. We are called to heal the broken hearted - not create the broken hearted. We are called to BE God's hands to stop abuse and suffering - not create abuse and suffering. We are called to BE a neighbour to those who are suffering - not pass by on the other side of the road. The horrific things in the group are in the process of being stopped and those who are content for the abuse to continue need to go and find an abusive fellowship somewhere else. Whoever made the statement below is desperately lacking in understanding and in the love of God. Fixit I believe it all goes wrong starting with people's idea of the word God. I believe what you said is correct about bringing the Kingdom of Heaven to earth, but when the idea of God is a being you can interact with telepathically in Heaven some place that they have no idea of its whereabouts, it totally changes the dynamic of what the Kingdom of Heaven is and what and where God is. So long as this concept of God and Jesus is the foundation I think mistreatment of people from "believers" will continue. It's skews the focus of people to believe fundamentally Christianity is something you believe in your mind, instead of it fundamentally being It's bringing heaven to earth. Bringing heaven to earth is the opposite of bringing hell, and religious nutjobs have a perfect track record of bringing hell to most things they are involved in. Unless you be like them they'll bring you hell.........and even if you are like them they still bring you hell and the insanity level is off the charts in this case as some of the head honchos are bringing hell and people worship it...... I know you dont worship the system but this is what it has become, The God in the sky is represented by the 2x2 system so people worship it.......its all $#$%* up.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2023 20:47:03 GMT -5
Are you a biblian now? The bible is a wonderful source of ancient wisdom. Have I ever said otherwise? When others quote it, you accuse them of being bible worshipers or biblians. Are you recanting that now?
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Post by fixit on Jul 10, 2023 22:42:05 GMT -5
The bible is a wonderful source of ancient wisdom. Have I ever said otherwise? When others quote it, you accuse them of being bible worshipers or biblians. Are you recanting that now? It's not quoting the bible that makes you a Biblian. It's fundamentalism and literalism that makes you more a follower of the bible than a follower of Jesus. Romans 8:1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do: by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and to deal with sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the just requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6 To set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. 7 For this reason the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law—indeed, it cannot, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh; you are in the Spirit, since the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. 10 But if Christ is in you, then the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit that dwells in you. 12 So then, brothers and sisters, we are obligated, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh— 13 for if you live according to the flesh, you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God. 15 For you did not receive a spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you received a spirit of adoption. When we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16 it is that very Spirit bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs: heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if we in fact suffer with him so that we may also be glorified with him.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2023 23:57:55 GMT -5
When others quote it, you accuse them of being bible worshipers or biblians. Are you recanting that now? It's not quoting the bible that makes you a Biblian. It's fundamentalism and literalism that makes you more a follower of the bible than a follower of Jesus. Romans 8:1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do: by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and to deal with sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the just requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6 To set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. 7 For this reason the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law—indeed, it cannot, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh; you are in the Spirit, since the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. 10 But if Christ is in you, then the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit that dwells in you. 12 So then, brothers and sisters, we are obligated, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh— 13 for if you live according to the flesh, you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God. 15 For you did not receive a spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you received a spirit of adoption. When we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16 it is that very Spirit bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs: heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if we in fact suffer with him so that we may also be glorified with him. You don't know diddly...scientist...
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