|
|
Post by maryhig on Aug 5, 2023 14:43:50 GMT -5
What if she's never heard the truth and doesn't know God? But she helps people and is kind and caring and does those things without a judgemental heart and shares with what little she has? And what if the one "dressed right" said she knows God, but has a hard heart, looks the part but looks down at others, judgemental uncaring professing to know the truth, but wouldn't help others? Which one has the better heart? We can't judge people like that, only God can judge the heart Wally. We just speak the things of God, live it out and bring God to those around us, whoever they are, and leave him to do the judging. The true word of God can do miraculous things and change the heart and ways of many who truly listen, take it in and then live it out. Once we know the truth, and live by it, then the outward appearance starts to change. I had bleached hair, make up, I dressed up you would have judged me as you judge that woman, but God has blessed me and opened my eyes and those things mean nothing to me any longer and I'm changed. And I thank him for it, because he knew my heart. In the parable of the sower, Jesus didn't say that the seed fell into ground that looked perfect on the surface, he said it fell into good ground and that's a good heart. It's not what's outside it's what's inside that counts. Also in that picture, all those women may not know God, but the woman first in the picture could even be the one to who listens to the things of God before the last one. Jesus said he came to save sinners but he can't get into a hard heart that stays hard, a heart of those who see themselves as perfect, proud, above others, looking down on people and judgemental, unless, hopefully they start to soften up when they hear God's word. Just look at the pharasees, they looked right on the outside, but Jesus said they were dead inside. But those like the woman caught in adultery, whom the pharasees looked down on listened to Jesus. The pharasees even looked down on Jesus himself, because their hearts were far from God, no matter how right they looked. God looks at the heart Christ also mentioned that evil people do good to others too, did that mean they were on the right track? He also mentions he sends the good rain on both evil and good did that mean they were not doing evil? Nope. No one suggested that you enter the kingdom first as a finished work already. I think that meme shows exactly what you just said. I believe I mentioned outward doesn't mean on Gods side either. In the meantime, there is a line that is crossed that isn't helpful at all to the person or others around them on that particular issue. No one condemned her to hell but would correctly say "that's not right/nice/lewd or hey wait a minute". I don't see Christ walking up to anyone dressed like that and say "you look great today". What I'm trying to say though Wally is she may never have heard the things of God so she won't know the truth. We can't judge her on her outward appearance. And no Jesus wouldn't have said you look great today to her, but I don't believe he would have said anyone looked great he wasn't interested in their outward appearance he was interested in their hearts. He would have worked on their hearts first teaching them to do what's right before God and the outward appearance would follow. As he said wash the inside of the cup and the outside may be clean also. |
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Aug 5, 2023 14:45:38 GMT -5
In that picture that you've posted, the girl depicted as a lost soul, could have a better heart than the one depicted as a professing girl!
Possibly, but not likely? Its the same girl and same heart, but the transformation begins when she bends over and picks up the bible. An outward change is often reflective of an inward revelation.
I get what your saying though, ones physical appearance is not always depictive of what's in ones heart. Looking the part can be a facade and doesn't automatically equate to a flawless Christian demeanor.
We know that ain't always true.. Myself being the exception of course  Ah I didn't get it, I thought you were just saying how different they were I didn't realise she was picking up the Bible, I get it now. That woman is me! |
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Aug 5, 2023 14:49:22 GMT -5
I don't want be appear misogynistic, so to be fair and unbiased, here's a depiction of the evolution of a professing boy; A remarkable transformation eh!  Finally a man that acknowledges that worldly men don't look any different from 2x2 men. But worldly women look different from a 2x2 woman. But there are no dress codes.... 
The rules tend to favor the men, that's the advantage of having all male Overseers.. An immodest girl could become a victim of SA, so the strict dress codes were implemented for their own protection. |
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Aug 5, 2023 14:52:47 GMT -5
No I wouldn't be the person I am without God, just because I did good doesn't mean I didn't do wrong either. He's changed me by helping me overcome the wrong things I was doing. But just because I did wrong doesn't mean I didn't do any good, I did. I just didn't see that I was wrong and saw myself as ok, until God shone a light into my heart and showed me my faults. And I'm not perfect, I have to fight myself all the time, but the strength of God helps me to overcome. I've said this before, but when you switch a light on in a dark room, you don't just see what's in the room, but you see the dirt as well. And that's what God did in my heart, he didn't just open my eyes, he showed me my faults too. I was blind to it all before but like the light brings you out of darkness, so did God to me, when he opened the eyes of my heart. I think that's just the way of being human. We do good, but we also do wrong. For me that's inevitable. Even with God no one is ever going to never do wrong. We live, we hopefully learn, and we try to not repeat what we know caused hurt or harm in the past. Doesn't mean we never will, but hopefully it means it won't happen as often. Yes we all do right and wrong, but God is helping me overcome my wrongdoings daily, I'd be doing a lot more wrong without him. That's all I'm trying to say 😊 |
|
|
|
Post by snow on Aug 5, 2023 15:04:54 GMT -5
Finally a man that acknowledges that worldly men don't look any different from 2x2 men. But worldly women look different from a 2x2 woman. But there are no dress codes.... The rules tend to favor the men, that's the advantage of having all male Overseers.. An immodest girl could become a victim of SA, so the strict dress codes were implemented for their own protection. Little did we know just how important it was to dress like that in the group. But I imagine that most of those who are survivors did dress like that so it just goes to prove that it's not how we dress that makes us a target. It's the mind of the predator that makes us a target no matter what we dress like. |
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Aug 5, 2023 15:29:02 GMT -5
The rules tend to favor the men, that's the advantage of having all male Overseers.. An immodest girl could become a victim of SA, so the strict dress codes were implemented for their own protection. Little did we know just how important it was to dress like that in the group. But I imagine that most of those who are survivors did dress like that so it just goes to prove that it's not how we dress that makes us a target. It's the mind of the predator that makes us a target no matter what we dress like. Also the predators who abused the children would have dressed like that too, so it just goes to show that the outward appearance definitely doesn't always show what the heart is like. |
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Aug 5, 2023 15:29:40 GMT -5
I think that's just the way of being human. We do good, but we also do wrong. For me that's inevitable. Even with God no one is ever going to never do wrong. We live, we hopefully learn, and we try to not repeat what we know caused hurt or harm in the past. Doesn't mean we never will, but hopefully it means it won't happen as often. Yes we all do right and wrong, but God is helping me overcome my wrongdoings daily, I'd be doing a lot more wrong without him. That's all I'm trying to say 😊
That's what nonbelievers often miss, its what the inner-workings of the Holy Spirit helps us with. Its a full time job trying to fix all our flaws, but doing good hides a multitude of sins (1 Peter 4:8).
|
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Aug 5, 2023 15:35:34 GMT -5
Yes we all do right and wrong, but God is helping me overcome my wrongdoings daily, I'd be doing a lot more wrong without him. That's all I'm trying to say 😊
That's what nonbelievers often miss, its what the inner-workings of the Holy Spirit helps us with. Its a full time job trying to fix all our flaws, but doing good hides a multitude of sins (1 Peter 4:8).
I see charity as love, like in the love chapter in 1 Corinthians 13. Love covers a multitude of sins, because if we truly love God and have his love within our hearts, then our sins start to be washed away as we live by his word and our hearts are cleansed. |
|
|
|
Post by snow on Aug 5, 2023 15:38:54 GMT -5
Yes we all do right and wrong, but God is helping me overcome my wrongdoings daily, I'd be doing a lot more wrong without him. That's all I'm trying to say 😊 That's what nonbelievers often miss, its what the inner-workings of the Holy Spirit helps us with. Its a full time job trying to fix all our flaws, but doing good hides a multitude of sins (1 Peter 4:8).
In my world it's called a conscience. The way I see it, treating others as respectfully and kindly as we can, makes for a better world. The way we treat each other matters in so many ways. It makes everyone's life better when we do that. It's commonsense if we want our world to be a better place. |
|
|
|
Post by verna on Aug 5, 2023 18:08:18 GMT -5
That's what nonbelievers often miss, its what the inner-workings of the Holy Spirit helps us with. Its a full time job trying to fix all our flaws, but doing good hides a multitude of sins (1 Peter 4:8).
In my world it's called a conscience. The way I see it, treating others as respectfully and kindly as we can, makes for a better world. The way we treat each other matters in so many ways. It makes everyone's life better when we do that. It's commonsense if we want our world to be a better place. You couldn’t understand Snow because you’re not a believer. 😂 |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2023 19:11:34 GMT -5
I don't want be appear misogynistic, so to be fair and unbiased, here's a depiction of the evolution of a professing boy;
A remarkable transformation eh!  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2023 19:19:12 GMT -5
Christ also mentioned that evil people do good to others too, did that mean they were on the right track? He also mentions he sends the good rain on both evil and good did that mean they were not doing evil? Nope. No one suggested that you enter the kingdom first as a finished work already. I think that meme shows exactly what you just said. I believe I mentioned outward doesn't mean on Gods side either. In the meantime, there is a line that is crossed that isn't helpful at all to the person or others around them on that particular issue. No one condemned her to hell but would correctly say "that's not right/nice/lewd or hey wait a minute". I don't see Christ walking up to anyone dressed like that and say "you look great today". What I'm trying to say though Wally is she may never have heard the things of God so she won't know the truth. We can't judge her on her outward appearance. And no Jesus wouldn't have said you look great today to her, but I don't believe he would have said anyone looked great he wasn't interested in their outward appearance he was interested in their hearts. He would have worked on their hearts first teaching them to do what's right before God and the outward appearance would follow. As he said wash the inside of the cup and the outside may be clean also. God gave everyone a basic understanding of right and wrong believer or not. Lewdity (yes, it appears I invented that word several months ago) would be one of those that we all know is wrong... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2023 19:24:19 GMT -5
I don't want be appear misogynist, so to be fair and unbiased, here's a depiction of the evolution of a professing boy; A remarkable transformation eh! Finally a man that acknowledges that worldly men don't look any different from 2x2 men. But worldly women look different from a 2x2 woman. But there are no dress codes.... There was a time when they did. I definitely remember getting ear flicked for short hair. Beards were largely a no no, tats too. Most 2x2 men didn't dress in gang colors or a specific thing like leather and chains. No ears pierced or anything like that. Maybe not as many requirements but some. |
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Aug 6, 2023 3:05:42 GMT -5
What I'm trying to say though Wally is she may never have heard the things of God so she won't know the truth. We can't judge her on her outward appearance. And no Jesus wouldn't have said you look great today to her, but I don't believe he would have said anyone looked great he wasn't interested in their outward appearance he was interested in their hearts. He would have worked on their hearts first teaching them to do what's right before God and the outward appearance would follow. As he said wash the inside of the cup and the outside may be clean also. God gave everyone a basic understanding of right and wrong believer or not. Lewdity (yes, it appears I invented that word several months ago) would be one of those that we all know is wrong... Yes and it says in the Bible that we will all be judged on what we do good and bad. But we don't have a conscience when we are ignorant, a conscience like we have when we know God. We see ourselves as ok, and we try to find excuses to do what we do and say things like, oh well they are doing this and that so I'll be ok. Or things like, they are doing that and I'm not doing anything that bad. We try to lick ourselves clean, more so when we don't know the things of God. But when we know God and he shows us our wrongdoings we should be trying to stop them and do what's right before him. As Jesus said, we are to deny ourselves and take up our cross when we truly follow him. And we are not do wrong and try and cover it, like Adam did in the garden, because regardless of how much we try and hide it, we are naked before God, he sees everything we do right and wrong. And that goes for all of us me included. When we realise that we've done wrong we are to repent, pray to God for forgiveness and then try and put it right. |
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Aug 6, 2023 3:26:41 GMT -5
That's what nonbelievers often miss, its what the inner-workings of the Holy Spirit helps us with. Its a full time job trying to fix all our flaws, but doing good hides a multitude of sins (1 Peter 4:8).
In my world it's called a conscience. The way I see it, treating others as respectfully and kindly as we can, makes for a better world. The way we treat each other matters in so many ways. It makes everyone's life better when we do that. It's commonsense if we want our world to be a better place. In my world a conscience is given to us from God, we have our own nature and will, then God gives us a conscience so that when we go wrong he gives us a chance to fight it, and then it's up to us to choose to listen to our conscience and do right or do wrong. And the stronger we become in God, the stronger the conscience becomes so that we can't do the things we used to do. But when we do wrong and carry on doing it wilfully, ignoring our conscience then our conscience becomes weaker, and we go onto do the wrong that we do more and more. I read once that some murderers start by looking at things online, then they look at worse things and it progressively gets worse and worse until they end up carrying out their wicked desires and commit murder too. And this can happen in many things to all of us, not just murderers, once we start to dabble in doing wrong, then we can get worse and worse unless we nip it in the bud at the beginning when we get a conscience. So if murderers had listened to their conscience in the first place, and stopped in the beginning when they started to get those thoughts before searching things online, they may never have done those things they did. God gives us a conscience to give us a chance to do good and turn from the bad we do. It's up to us whether we listen to it or not. |
|
|
|
Post by snow on Aug 6, 2023 13:28:02 GMT -5
In my world it's called a conscience. The way I see it, treating others as respectfully and kindly as we can, makes for a better world. The way we treat each other matters in so many ways. It makes everyone's life better when we do that. It's commonsense if we want our world to be a better place. You couldn’t understand Snow because you’re not a believer. 😂 True. I guess when I quit professing I also lost my ability to understand what works in the world. |
|
|
|
Post by snow on Aug 6, 2023 13:33:11 GMT -5
Finally a man that acknowledges that worldly men don't look any different from 2x2 men. But worldly women look different from a 2x2 woman. But there are no dress codes.... There was a time when they did. I definitely remember getting ear flicked for short hair. Beards were largely a no no, tats too. Most 2x2 men didn't dress in gang colors or a specific thing like leather and chains. No ears pierced or anything like that. Maybe not as many requirements but some. That's true. But everyday normal clothing has never been as openly 'different' for men as it was for women. You always knew a professing woman when they walked into the store. Not something you could ever do to identify a man walking into a store. Not only did our hair have to be long it had to be in a bun. We had to wear dresses and those dresses had to be a certain length and loose. If you had short hair and no beards because it was not kosher in the 2x2 group, you still didn't stand out in the real world. 2x2 women were made to stand out. That's the difference. |
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Aug 6, 2023 15:13:19 GMT -5
That's what nonbelievers often miss, its what the inner-workings of the Holy Spirit helps us with. Its a full time job trying to fix all our flaws, but doing good hides a multitude of sins (1 Peter 4:8).
In my world it's called a conscience. The way I see it, treating others as respectfully and kindly as we can, makes for a better world. The way we treat each other matters in so many ways. It makes everyone's life better when we do that. It's commonsense if we want our world to be a better place.
Everyone has a conscience, that's the knowledge of good & evil. God is good, his Spirit convicts us of what is evil, and that knowledge is afforded to everyone, so we are all 'without excuse' (Romans 1:20). When or if God withdraws that knowledge which convicts us of sin, evil prevails, "God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient" (Romans 1:28). That's when you end up with sociopaths committing mass murder, 60 million babies being killed before they're born, 55 million killed by a Jew hating Nazi, etc.
The Truth is a two edged sword that cuts to the quick, its not a respecter of persons because it violates what they do, think, and believe. Jesus told the Jews, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do" (John 8:44).. That wasn't very nice, kind, or respectful. It didn't make their lives better or make the world a better place. Nonetheless, it was good because it was necessary.
My point is that having a good conscience isn't always a matter of going along with the program, the acceptance of evil is good being idle. "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil" (Isaiah 5:20). If a cross dressing transgender person comes into a school and gyrates in front of your children to gain their acceptance of his life style, do you respectfully treat him nice?
|
|
|
|
Post by snow on Aug 6, 2023 16:07:06 GMT -5
In my world it's called a conscience. The way I see it, treating others as respectfully and kindly as we can, makes for a better world. The way we treat each other matters in so many ways. It makes everyone's life better when we do that. It's commonsense if we want our world to be a better place. Everyone has a conscience, that's the knowledge of good & evil. God is good, his Spirit convicts us of what is evil, and that knowledge is afforded to everyone, so we are all 'without excuse' (Romans 1:20). When or if God withdraws that knowledge which convicts us of sin, evil prevails, "God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient" (Romans 1:28). That's when you end up with sociopaths committing mass murder, 60 million babies being killed before they're born, 55 million killed by a Jew hating Nazi, etc.
The Truth is a two edged sword that cuts to the quick, its not a respecter of persons because it violates what they do, think, and believe. Jesus told the Jews, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do" (John 8:44).. That wasn't very nice, kind, or respectful. It didn't make their lives better or make the world a better place. Nonetheless, it was good because it was necessary.
My point is that having a good conscience isn't always a matter of going along with the program, the acceptance of evil is good being idle. "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil" (Isaiah 5:20). If a cross dressing transgender person comes into a school and gyrates in front of your children to gain their acceptance of his life style, do you respectfully treat him nice?
I don't think anyone said that a good conscience meant going along with the program. In fact, more often then not it means not going along with the program. |
|
|
|
Post by SharonArnold on Aug 6, 2023 16:37:51 GMT -5
You couldn’t understand Snow because you’re not a believer. 😂 True. I guess when I quit professing I also lost my ability to understand what works in the world. Ummmm. I think it is arguable that is when you reclaimed your ability to understand what really works in the world. Keep an open mind, here, snow. |
|
|
|
Post by snow on Aug 6, 2023 16:47:23 GMT -5
True. I guess when I quit professing I also lost my ability to understand what works in the world. Ummmm. I think it is arguable that is when you reclaimed your ability to understand what really works in the world. Keep an open mind, here, snow. Yes an open mind is important. There is so much I don't understand. |
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Aug 6, 2023 19:40:54 GMT -5
I don't think anyone said that a good conscience meant going along with the program. In fact, more often then not it means not going along with the program.
No, I didn't mean to imply that, my comment wasn't ad hominem, but just a general opinion on how our conscience differentiates between right & wrong. A Christian would likely have some biblical boundaries that a nonbeliever wouldn't observe. Without a definitive source of laws, a non-Christian would have no spiritual guide and be more reliant on their own sense of morals. But I believe everyone inherently knows the difference between good & evil. So of course, anyone with an ounce of commonsense would denounce evil and not respect or condone those who did bad things.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2023 22:19:29 GMT -5
There was a time when they did. I definitely remember getting ear flicked for short hair. Beards were largely a no no, tats too. Most 2x2 men didn't dress in gang colors or a specific thing like leather and chains. No ears pierced or anything like that. Maybe not as many requirements but some. That's true. But everyday normal clothing has never been as openly 'different' for men as it was for women. You always knew a professing woman when they walked into the store. Not something you could ever do to identify a man walking into a store. Not only did our hair have to be long it had to be in a bun. We had to wear dresses and those dresses had to be a certain length and loose. If you had short hair and no beards because it was not kosher in the 2x2 group, you still didn't stand out in the real world. 2x2 women were made to stand out. That's the difference. If short hair didn't stand out (it did) why were they flicking me for it while mocking it? |
|
|
|
Post by snow on Aug 7, 2023 13:26:44 GMT -5
I don't think anyone said that a good conscience meant going along with the program. In fact, more often then not it means not going along with the program. No, I didn't mean to imply that, my comment wasn't ad hominem, but just a general opinion on how our conscience differentiates between right & wrong. A Christian would likely have some biblical boundaries that a nonbeliever wouldn't observe. Without a definitive source of laws, a non-Christian would have no spiritual guide and be more reliant on their own sense of morals. But I believe everyone inherently knows the difference between good & evil. So of course, anyone with an ounce of commonsense would denounce evil and not respect or condone those who did bad things.
Hearing about how the HS appears to work I would say that those who believe in God also just are guided by their individual morals. Look at the number of workers and overseers that people are asking to step down and they aren't because they are claiming the holy spirit is telling them not to. I don't think belief in god makes any difference in how believers work. There is such a vast array of ways they justify doing what they do and claim the hs guided them. Conscience is based on the character of the person and their individual sense of right and wrong. |
|
|
|
Post by snow on Aug 7, 2023 13:28:57 GMT -5
That's true. But everyday normal clothing has never been as openly 'different' for men as it was for women. You always knew a professing woman when they walked into the store. Not something you could ever do to identify a man walking into a store. Not only did our hair have to be long it had to be in a bun. We had to wear dresses and those dresses had to be a certain length and loose. If you had short hair and no beards because it was not kosher in the 2x2 group, you still didn't stand out in the real world. 2x2 women were made to stand out. That's the difference. If short hair didn't stand out (it did) why were they flicking me for it while mocking it? You're lucky it was only short hair you got mocked for. Try going to school in a long skirt in the days mini skirts were the thing. Try going to school with your hair in a bun and no make up when pixie cuts were the style and teens wore make up. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2023 14:32:17 GMT -5
If short hair didn't stand out (it did) why were they flicking me for it while mocking it? You're lucky it was only short hair you got mocked for. Try going to school in a long skirt in the days mini skirts were the thing. Try going to school with your hair in a bun and no make up when pixie cuts were the style and teens wore make up. Did they physically hit you or flick your ears till beet red? |
|
|
|
Post by snow on Aug 7, 2023 15:17:35 GMT -5
You're lucky it was only short hair you got mocked for. Try going to school in a long skirt in the days mini skirts were the thing. Try going to school with your hair in a bun and no make up when pixie cuts were the style and teens wore make up. Did they physically hit you or flick your ears till beet red? No I was never physically attacked. I do remember what it was like to be bullied because I looked different though and I do remember what it felt like to be made fun of and rejected. I remember guys in school with short hair while I had long skirts. And, they weren't professing. I don't know if they suffered what you did. Maybe if they were also a 'nerd'. They did tend to be bullied terribly unfortunately. I am sorry that happened to you wally.  |
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Aug 7, 2023 21:43:32 GMT -5
Did they physically hit you or flick your ears till beet red? No I was never physically attacked. I do remember what it was like to be bullied because I looked different though and I do remember what it felt like to be made fun of and rejected. I remember guys in school with short hair while I had long skirts. And, they weren't professing. I don't know if they suffered what you did. Maybe if they were also a 'nerd'. They did tend to be bullied terribly unfortunately. I am sorry that happened to you wally. I got bullied just because my mum and dad wasn't well off, I got it from I was around 4 till I was 11. They picked at everything and excluded me from playing with them too and bullied me daily, I constantly wanted to go home. It was mainly one girl who turned the rest against me, she was well off with all the best clothes and picked at me because of things like I got my dress from a cheaper shop than some of them had. I wasn't the only one she was bad to, but she made a beeline for me because I was so soft and didn't tell anyone. It really affected me for a long time, right into adulthood, it wasn't until I met my now husband that I was able to put it and other things behind me, and that was after a few years of being with him. And God has helped me also, God has also helped me to forgive and forget. But one good thing has come out of it, it's also made me a stronger person, and I have empathy for others going through things in their life too. |
|
