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Post by snow on Aug 3, 2023 14:46:54 GMT -5
I agree that the RCC in the beginning defined hell and now they are redefining what hell is. A separation from God. As an atheist I obviously don't believe a god exists and I'm not going through hell being 'separated' from a relationship with a god. What I do see though is how we can make our lives hell when we cheat, lie, steal and don't allow empathy and compassion for others into our lives. Commonsense attributes that make our world a happier place for everyone when they are practiced. No relationship with god is required to practice compassion and empathy for others, or respect for other's belongings, feelings etc. Perhaps practicing respect, compassion and empathy for others IS part of a relationship with God, whether you choose to use that terminology or not? Which god? Who knows, maybe? However, I do not see the Christian God as a good example of respect, compassion or empathy. Anyone reading the OT sees a that God is rather vengeful. I would hope that I never act like the OT God. I don't know if there is a god and I don't know if we are just a part of a divine entity. If there is one and I am just a part of that entity I would hope it's a god that I can stand for. I quit professing because of what the OT God did. I was scared because at that point in my life I was absolutely sure not worshiping that God would mean I was going to hell. But I have no idea how anyone can read the OT and still say 'yeah this is a guy I want to worship'. |
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Post by snow on Aug 3, 2023 14:51:30 GMT -5
I agree that the RCC in the beginning defined hell and now they are redefining what hell is. A separation from God. As an atheist I obviously don't believe a god exists and I'm not going through hell being 'separated' from a relationship with a god. What I do see though is how we can make our lives hell when we cheat, lie, steal and don't allow empathy and compassion for others into our lives. Commonsense attributes that make our world a happier place for everyone when they are practiced. No relationship with god is required to practice compassion and empathy for others, or respect for other's belongings, feelings etc. "No relationship with god is required to practice compassion and empathy for others, or respect for other's belongings, feelings etc." A relationship with a god is exactly what is required, the problem here is what is a god (highest ideals or influence) in someone's life? The God the Hebrew people talk about is the L O R D, and what is that you ask.... Exodus 34:5-7 [5]And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD. [6]And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, [7]Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation. A relationship with God to the Hebrew people is a relationship ship with these character traits otherwise knows as the L O R D, it is not a relationship as we westerners visualise between two entities that exist. A relationship with the God named the L O R D is quite literally this "practice compassion and empathy for others, or respect for other's belongings, feelings etc." That's it. I stand by my statement that no worship of any god is required to have those qualities and live those qualities. I don't have any reason to believe in any gods. But if I'm wrong and you are right, I have to hope that is what that God stands for. We've had this conversation before and you tell me I'm not interpreting the OT God correctly. You could be right. But that is how I see any God that is portrayed like the God of the OT is. |
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Post by snow on Aug 3, 2023 15:00:05 GMT -5
I agree that the RCC in the beginning defined hell and now they are redefining what hell is. A separation from God. As an atheist I obviously don't believe a god exists and I'm not going through hell being 'separated' from a relationship with a god. What I do see though is how we can make our lives hell when we cheat, lie, steal and don't allow empathy and compassion for others into our lives. Commonsense attributes that make our world a happier place for everyone when they are practiced. No relationship with god is required to practice compassion and empathy for others, or respect for other's belongings, feelings etc. We all sin, we all have wrong and right in our hearts, but what a relationship with God does is he helps you overcome the wrong you have and helps you to cleanse your heart by his word through Christ, by the power of the Spirit, as I hear his word and live by it, I start to overcome my old ways of living thus God is saving me from the ways of this world. That's what salvation is in this lifetime, to be saved from the ways of this world, meaning saving us by helping save us from being carried away by wrong doing in this world and by the wrong in our own hearts. I know me snow, and I wouldn't have thought twice about doing some things if I listened to my flesh, but God has taught me they are wrong to do, he had showed me my sin, much of which I was blind to. And now he guides me daily, and I have a really strong conscience, I can't do those things anymore and I know I'm blessed, but I also know that I can turn back at any time and I need God's help everyday, without him I'd be lost. And I also know that I have to endure to the end to be eternally saved and that I'm no better than anyone else, I have to deny myself daily and endure what is set before me and keep my faith, trusting in God no matter what happens to me to the end of my life for eternal salvation, and I've been through some things and I couldn't have got through them without the living God. I'm just a sinner being saved daily by the grace of God, meaning his strength and his love is helping me to overcome, as I turn from my old sinful ways, obey his word and live by his will in my daily life. I believe this is what God required of the Jews, but Jesus had to come and show them how to live as their leaders had gone wrong and were teaching the people wrong, a bit like some of the churches today. So now we have no excuse we have seen and heard the truth now we have to live by it ourselves. The way is Jesus, he lived it out, he spoke and lived the truth, and his life is the life to follow and we need that life within us, God wants to see the life of his son in us, and then lived out through us in love, and our old life has to go for that to happen as we can't serve two masters, we either live by our own will, or by the will of God. As Joshua said, choose you this day whom you serve. People can serve other false gods, loving themselves before God, and carrying on in their sinful ways and the ways of this world, or they can serve God and also be there for others, and Joshua chose to serve the Lord and those who truly follow Jesus will do the same. Yes we all make mistakes. And, you and I have talked about this before. You are convinced that you can't do good without God in your life. That is true for you, it's what you genuinely believe.  But I don't have a God in my life and yet I have a strong desire to do no harm and help where I can. |
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Post by chuck on Aug 3, 2023 16:52:14 GMT -5
"No relationship with god is required to practice compassion and empathy for others, or respect for other's belongings, feelings etc." A relationship with a god is exactly what is required, the problem here is what is a god (highest ideals or influence) in someone's life? The God the Hebrew people talk about is the L O R D, and what is that you ask.... Exodus 34:5-7 [5]And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD. [6]And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, [7]Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation. A relationship with God to the Hebrew people is a relationship ship with these character traits otherwise knows as the L O R D, it is not a relationship as we westerners visualise between two entities that exist. A relationship with the God named the L O R D is quite literally this "practice compassion and empathy for others, or respect for other's belongings, feelings etc." That's it. I stand by my statement that no worship of any god is required to have those qualities and live those qualities. I don't have any reason to believe in any gods. But if I'm wrong and you are right, I have to hope that is what that God stands for. We've had this conversation before and you tell me I'm not interpreting the OT God correctly. You could be right. But that is how I see any God that is portrayed like the God of the OT is. Those qualities are god, not you need to worship a god to have those qualities. God is described by the Hebrew people as a indwelling influence, in our language and culture today that just basically means our highest ideals. I assume you have some?. And god being transcendent basically means those ideals go beyond yourself. Worshipping a god today is ascribing worth to your highest ideals. To some people that's religion, to others that it what you described in your previous post. Were I see our differences is what the word G O D is. As far as interpretation of OT. Sit behind it and not in front of it with 2000yrs plus of western religion and philosophy. That will explain how I understand it, doesn't mean im right, just how I understand it. Personally I think that is hard to do for someone who calles themselves an Atheist just as it is for someone who calls themselves a Christian, and its particularly hard if either side has a more fundemental approach to the text. I have been there.... |
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Post by Dan on Aug 3, 2023 17:09:17 GMT -5
We all sin, we all have wrong and right in our hearts, but what a relationship with God does is he helps you overcome the wrong you have and helps you to cleanse your heart by his word through Christ, by the power of the Spirit, as I hear his word and live by it, I start to overcome my old ways of living thus God is saving me from the ways of this world. That's what salvation is in this lifetime, to be saved from the ways of this world, meaning saving us by helping save us from being carried away by wrong doing in this world and by the wrong in our own hearts. I know me snow, and I wouldn't have thought twice about doing some things if I listened to my flesh, but God has taught me they are wrong to do, he had showed me my sin, much of which I was blind to. And now he guides me daily, and I have a really strong conscience, I can't do those things anymore and I know I'm blessed, but I also know that I can turn back at any time and I need God's help everyday, without him I'd be lost. And I also know that I have to endure to the end to be eternally saved and that I'm no better than anyone else, I have to deny myself daily and endure what is set before me and keep my faith, trusting in God no matter what happens to me to the end of my life for eternal salvation, and I've been through some things and I couldn't have got through them without the living God. I'm just a sinner being saved daily by the grace of God, meaning his strength and his love is helping me to overcome, as I turn from my old sinful ways, obey his word and live by his will in my daily life. I believe this is what God required of the Jews, but Jesus had to come and show them how to live as their leaders had gone wrong and were teaching the people wrong, a bit like some of the churches today. So now we have no excuse we have seen and heard the truth now we have to live by it ourselves. The way is Jesus, he lived it out, he spoke and lived the truth, and his life is the life to follow and we need that life within us, God wants to see the life of his son in us, and then lived out through us in love, and our old life has to go for that to happen as we can't serve two masters, we either live by our own will, or by the will of God. As Joshua said, choose you this day whom you serve. People can serve other false gods, loving themselves before God, and carrying on in their sinful ways and the ways of this world, or they can serve God and also be there for others, and Joshua chose to serve the Lord and those who truly follow Jesus will do the same. Yes we all make mistakes. And, you and I have talked about this before. You are convinced that you can't do good without God in your life. That is true for you, it's what you genuinely believe. But I don't have a God in my life and yet I have a strong desire to do no harm and help where I can.
Anyone can do good, some of the nicest and most trusting people I know don't go to church.
But doing good ain't good enough to pass through the pearly gates;
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Post by snow on Aug 3, 2023 17:14:23 GMT -5
Yes we all make mistakes. And, you and I have talked about this before. You are convinced that you can't do good without God in your life. That is true for you, it's what you genuinely believe. But I don't have a God in my life and yet I have a strong desire to do no harm and help where I can. Anyone can do good, some of the nicest and most trusting people I know don't go to church. But doing good ain't good enough to pass through the pearly gates; Yes I know I'm not going to heaven. Got that message decades ago. That wasn't the discussion here though. The discussion is 'can an atheist be compassionate etc. and not have a relationship with God' 'or if an atheist is compassionate they have a relationship with God, they just don't know it'. I disagree with them. You obviously agree with me. Atheists can be good, they just aren't going to heaven. |
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Post by Dan on Aug 3, 2023 17:59:01 GMT -5
Yes I know I'm not going to heaven. Got that message decades ago. That wasn't the discussion here though. The discussion is 'can an atheist be compassionate etc. and not have a relationship with God' 'or if an atheist is compassionate they have a relationship with God, they just don't know it'. I disagree with them. You obviously agree with me. Atheists can be good, they just aren't going to heaven.
Yes, Jesus used The Parable of the Good Samaritan to illustrate compassion.. Your so close, why not go that last yard? You may not like or understand the ways or judgements of the old testament God, but surely the virtues of Christ would appeal to you? Faith has never been about understanding everything or even agreeing with everything, in fact its quite the opposite. Sometimes we just need to trust that the righteousness of God surpasses what we may think or how we might see things.
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Post by maryhig on Aug 3, 2023 19:15:39 GMT -5
We all sin, we all have wrong and right in our hearts, but what a relationship with God does is he helps you overcome the wrong you have and helps you to cleanse your heart by his word through Christ, by the power of the Spirit, as I hear his word and live by it, I start to overcome my old ways of living thus God is saving me from the ways of this world. That's what salvation is in this lifetime, to be saved from the ways of this world, meaning saving us by helping save us from being carried away by wrong doing in this world and by the wrong in our own hearts. I know me snow, and I wouldn't have thought twice about doing some things if I listened to my flesh, but God has taught me they are wrong to do, he had showed me my sin, much of which I was blind to. And now he guides me daily, and I have a really strong conscience, I can't do those things anymore and I know I'm blessed, but I also know that I can turn back at any time and I need God's help everyday, without him I'd be lost. And I also know that I have to endure to the end to be eternally saved and that I'm no better than anyone else, I have to deny myself daily and endure what is set before me and keep my faith, trusting in God no matter what happens to me to the end of my life for eternal salvation, and I've been through some things and I couldn't have got through them without the living God. I'm just a sinner being saved daily by the grace of God, meaning his strength and his love is helping me to overcome, as I turn from my old sinful ways, obey his word and live by his will in my daily life. I believe this is what God required of the Jews, but Jesus had to come and show them how to live as their leaders had gone wrong and were teaching the people wrong, a bit like some of the churches today. So now we have no excuse we have seen and heard the truth now we have to live by it ourselves. The way is Jesus, he lived it out, he spoke and lived the truth, and his life is the life to follow and we need that life within us, God wants to see the life of his son in us, and then lived out through us in love, and our old life has to go for that to happen as we can't serve two masters, we either live by our own will, or by the will of God. As Joshua said, choose you this day whom you serve. People can serve other false gods, loving themselves before God, and carrying on in their sinful ways and the ways of this world, or they can serve God and also be there for others, and Joshua chose to serve the Lord and those who truly follow Jesus will do the same. Yes we all make mistakes. And, you and I have talked about this before. You are convinced that you can't do good without God in your life. That is true for you, it's what you genuinely believe. But I don't have a God in my life and yet I have a strong desire to do no harm and help where I can. I never said I can't do good without God, I said said we all do good and bad, but the difference with knowing God and not knowing God, is that in knowing him he's helping me overcome the wrong that I do. He's helping me to change my heart, and the things I would have done in the past, I don't do anymore. Much of which I didn't see as wrong I thought I was ok, but God has shown me that I wasn't ok and that the way I was living and some of my own thoughts and what I was doing was wrong. I really am like a another person, even my own daughter said this about me in the past, she has actually said I'm like a completely different person to what I was. But God has changed me for the better, and I'm forever thankful to him and I know that I'm truly blessed to know him. |
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Post by Admin on Aug 3, 2023 23:09:28 GMT -5
Perhaps practicing respect, compassion and empathy for others IS part of a relationship with God, whether you choose to use that terminology or not? Which god? ... Maybe the God of creation? |
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Aug 3, 2023 23:14:23 GMT -5
Maybe the God of creation? Take your pick of countless creation stories, each with a god or sometimes more than one god and each of them is unquestionably true according to the believer. |
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Post by maryhig on Aug 4, 2023 1:36:09 GMT -5
Maybe the God of creation? Take your pick of countless creation stories, each with a god or sometimes more than one god and each of them is unquestionably true according to the believer. How about the living God who has created everything living that you see around you? |
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Aug 4, 2023 14:33:02 GMT -5
Take your pick of countless creation stories, each with a god or sometimes more than one god and each of them is unquestionably true according to the believer. How about the living God who has created everything living that you see around you? Every god ever worshipped has been the living god to those that worship it. Whether it be a Hindu god who is responsible for creation or some African animalist's god who did the same, they are all equally important in the eyes of the believer and worshipper. Yours is no more believable or important than any other. |
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Post by snow on Aug 4, 2023 16:07:10 GMT -5
Yes I know I'm not going to heaven. Got that message decades ago. That wasn't the discussion here though. The discussion is 'can an atheist be compassionate etc. and not have a relationship with God' 'or if an atheist is compassionate they have a relationship with God, they just don't know it'. I disagree with them. You obviously agree with me. Atheists can be good, they just aren't going to heaven. Yes, Jesus used The Parable of the Good Samaritan to illustrate compassion.. Your so close, why not go that last yard? You may not like or understand the ways or judgements of the old testament God, but surely the virtues of Christ would appeal to you? Faith has never been about understanding everything or even agreeing with everything, in fact its quite the opposite. Sometimes we just need to trust that the righteousness of God surpasses what we may think or how we might see things.
I truly do not believe gods exist. So how could I do what you suggest? I know you are coming from a good place when you say this, I do understand that. But once you see how improbable gods are you can't unsee it. I have no belief. And if I just went through the movements to gain access to heaven that would be hypocritical. I am pretty sure if I did that an all knowing God would see through it and send me to hell anyway. I have to be true to myself. I can't pretend to believe when I just don't. I watched this talk today and I thought it was pretty good. It's humorous but also makes some good points. I will share. |
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Post by snow on Aug 4, 2023 16:15:45 GMT -5
Yes we all make mistakes. And, you and I have talked about this before. You are convinced that you can't do good without God in your life. That is true for you, it's what you genuinely believe. But I don't have a God in my life and yet I have a strong desire to do no harm and help where I can. I never said I can't do good without God, I said said we all do good and bad, but the difference with knowing God and not knowing God, is that in knowing him he's helping me overcome the wrong that I do. He's helping me to change my heart, and the things I would have done in the past, I don't do anymore. Much of which I didn't see as wrong I thought I was ok, but God has shown me that I wasn't ok and that the way I was living and some of my own thoughts and what I was doing was wrong. I really am like a another person, even my own daughter said this about me in the past, she has actually said I'm like a completely different person to what I was. But God has changed me for the better, and I'm forever thankful to him and I know that I'm truly blessed to know him. Oh I see. I apologize, I have always thought you said you knew yourself and that you wouldn't be the person you are without God. I always took that to mean that you thought you couldn't be good without a relationship with God. Now I understand what you mean. For me I see that as maturing. I am not the person I was even when I professed years ago. |
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Post by Dan on Aug 4, 2023 22:28:49 GMT -5
Yes, Jesus used The Parable of the Good Samaritan to illustrate compassion.. Your so close, why not go that last yard? You may not like or understand the ways or judgements of the old testament God, but surely the virtues of Christ would appeal to you? Faith has never been about understanding everything or even agreeing with everything, in fact its quite the opposite. Sometimes we just need to trust that the righteousness of God surpasses what we may think or how we might see things.
I truly do not believe gods exist. So how could I do what you suggest? I know you are coming from a good place when you say this, I do understand that. But once you see how improbable gods are you can't unsee it. I have no belief. And if I just went through the movements to gain access to heaven that would be hypocritical. I am pretty sure if I did that an all knowing God would see through it and send me to hell anyway. I have to be true to myself. I can't pretend to believe when I just don't. I watched this talk today and I thought it was pretty good. It's humorous but also makes some good points. I will share.
I see... I thought that you just didn't like the biblical God.. It all comes down to what a person decides to believe, while I'm convince God is probable, you've decided that the existence of any god is improbable.
I wasn't suggesting that you profess something that you don't believe, that would be hypocritical, and your correct that there's no fooling God. The bible has nearly all the answers, but many people need proof to substantiate the truth. Unfortunately, God does not feel obligated to prove himself to anyone, not yet anyhow. That's the choice, we are all here to accept his Word over everything else we know and think. That's the type of faith that Abraham and Enoch had, and nothing pleases God more.
Thanks for the video, its good to hear how others think and view things.
......... The Transformation of a lost soul ...........
................... Into a Professing girl .....................
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Post by maryhig on Aug 5, 2023 4:41:11 GMT -5
How about the living God who has created everything living that you see around you? Every god ever worshipped has been the living god to those that worship it. Whether it be a Hindu god who is responsible for creation or some African animalist's god who did the same, they are all equally important in the eyes of the believer and worshipper. Yours is no more believable or important than any other. You still can't deny everything that's living and created around you though can you? Someone has to have created everything, especially knowing how everything works, there has to be a greater mind behind it all, and that's the God I believe in. He is important and believable, because without him you'd have no air to breathe, no sun to shine, and no water to keep you living, the living God created all these things and he created you and me also. Creation itself is proof of the living God. |
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Post by maryhig on Aug 5, 2023 4:43:56 GMT -5
I truly do not believe gods exist. So how could I do what you suggest? I know you are coming from a good place when you say this, I do understand that. But once you see how improbable gods are you can't unsee it. I have no belief. And if I just went through the movements to gain access to heaven that would be hypocritical. I am pretty sure if I did that an all knowing God would see through it and send me to hell anyway. I have to be true to myself. I can't pretend to believe when I just don't. I watched this talk today and I thought it was pretty good. It's humorous but also makes some good points. I will share.
I see... I thought that you just didn't like the biblical God.. It all comes down to what a person decides to believe, while I'm convince God is probable, you've decided that the existence of any god is improbable.
I wasn't suggesting that you profess something that you don't believe, that would be hypocritical, and your correct that there's no fooling God. The bible has nearly all the answers, but many people need proof to substantiate the truth. Unfortunately, God does not feel obligated to prove himself to anyone, not yet anyhow. That's the choice, we are all here to accept his Word over everything else we know and think. That's the type of faith that Abraham and Enoch had, and nothing pleases God more.
Thanks for the video, its good to hear how others think and view things.
......... The Transformation of a lost soul ...........
................... Into a Professing girl .....................
In that picture that you've posted, the girl depicted as a lost soul, could have a better heart than the one depicted as a professing girl! |
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Post by maryhig on Aug 5, 2023 4:51:45 GMT -5
I never said I can't do good without God, I said said we all do good and bad, but the difference with knowing God and not knowing God, is that in knowing him he's helping me overcome the wrong that I do. He's helping me to change my heart, and the things I would have done in the past, I don't do anymore. Much of which I didn't see as wrong I thought I was ok, but God has shown me that I wasn't ok and that the way I was living and some of my own thoughts and what I was doing was wrong. I really am like a another person, even my own daughter said this about me in the past, she has actually said I'm like a completely different person to what I was. But God has changed me for the better, and I'm forever thankful to him and I know that I'm truly blessed to know him. Oh I see. I apologize, I have always thought you said you knew yourself and that you wouldn't be the person you are without God. I always took that to mean that you thought you couldn't be good without a relationship with God. Now I understand what you mean. For me I see that as maturing. I am not the person I was even when I professed years ago. No I wouldn't be the person I am without God, just because I did good doesn't mean I didn't do wrong either. He's changed me by helping me overcome the wrong things I was doing. But just because I did wrong doesn't mean I didn't do any good, I did. I just didn't see that I was wrong and saw myself as ok, until God shone a light into my heart and showed me my faults. And I'm not perfect, I have to fight myself all the time, but the strength of God helps me to overcome. I've said this before, but when you switch a light on in a dark room, you don't just see what's in the room, but you see the dirt as well. And that's what God did in my heart, he didn't just open my eyes, he showed me my faults too. I was blind to it all before but like the light brings you out of darkness, so did God to me, when he opened the eyes of my heart. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2023 9:13:07 GMT -5
I see... I thought that you just didn't like the biblical God.. It all comes down to what a person decides to believe, while I'm convince God is probable, you've decided that the existence of any god is improbable.
I wasn't suggesting that you profess something that you don't believe, that would be hypocritical, and your correct that there's no fooling God. The bible has nearly all the answers, but many people need proof to substantiate the truth. Unfortunately, God does not feel obligated to prove himself to anyone, not yet anyhow. That's the choice, we are all here to accept his Word over everything else we know and think. That's the type of faith that Abraham and Enoch had, and nothing pleases God more.
Thanks for the video, its good to hear how others think and view things.
......... The Transformation of a lost soul ...........
................... Into a Professing girl .....................
In that picture that you've posted, the girl depicted as a lost soul, could have a better heart than the one depicted as a professing girl! Not with the way she is advertising...in what world dressed like that would be a good heart? Outward appearance don't always mean true to God, but there is a line... |
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Post by maryhig on Aug 5, 2023 12:50:15 GMT -5
In that picture that you've posted, the girl depicted as a lost soul, could have a better heart than the one depicted as a professing girl! Not with the way she is advertising...in what world dressed like that would be a good heart? Outward appearance don't always mean true to God, but there is a line... What if she's never heard the truth and doesn't know God? But she helps people and is kind and caring and does those things without a judgemental heart and shares with what little she has? And what if the one "dressed right" said she knows God, but has a hard heart, looks the part but looks down at others, judgemental uncaring professing to know the truth, but wouldn't help others? Which one has the better heart? We can't judge people like that, only God can judge the heart Wally. We just speak the things of God, live it out and bring God to those around us, whoever they are, and leave him to do the judging. The true word of God can do miraculous things and change the heart and ways of many who truly listen, take it in and then live it out. Once we know the truth, and live by it, then the outward appearance starts to change. I had bleached hair, make up, I dressed up you would have judged me as you judge that woman, but God has blessed me and opened my eyes and those things mean nothing to me any longer and I'm changed. And I thank him for it, because he knew my heart. In the parable of the sower, Jesus didn't say that the seed fell into ground that looked perfect on the surface, he said it fell into good ground and that's a good heart. It's not what's outside it's what's inside that counts. Also in that picture, all those women may not know God, but the woman first in the picture could even be the one to who listens to the things of God before the last one. Jesus said he came to save sinners but he can't get into a hard heart that stays hard, a heart of those who see themselves as perfect, proud, above others, looking down on people and judgemental, unless, hopefully they start to soften up when they hear God's word. Just look at the pharasees, they looked right on the outside, but Jesus said they were dead inside. But those like the woman caught in adultery, whom the pharasees looked down on listened to Jesus. The pharasees even looked down on Jesus himself, because their hearts were far from God, no matter how right they looked. God looks at the heart! |
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Post by snow on Aug 5, 2023 13:29:42 GMT -5
I truly do not believe gods exist. So how could I do what you suggest? I know you are coming from a good place when you say this, I do understand that. But once you see how improbable gods are you can't unsee it. I have no belief. And if I just went through the movements to gain access to heaven that would be hypocritical. I am pretty sure if I did that an all knowing God would see through it and send me to hell anyway. I have to be true to myself. I can't pretend to believe when I just don't. I watched this talk today and I thought it was pretty good. It's humorous but also makes some good points. I will share. I see... I thought that you just didn't like the biblical God.. It all comes down to what a person decides to believe, while I'm convince God is probable, you've decided that the existence of any god is improbable. I wasn't suggesting that you profess something that you don't believe, that would be hypocritical, and your correct that there's no fooling God. The bible has nearly all the answers, but many people need proof to substantiate the truth. Unfortunately, God does not feel obligated to prove himself to anyone, not yet anyhow. That's the choice, we are all here to accept his Word over everything else we know and think. That's the type of faith that Abraham and Enoch had, and nothing pleases God more.
Thanks for the video, its good to hear how others think and view things. ......... The Transformation of a lost soul ...........
................... Into a Professing girl .....................
That was me at 12 when I quit professing. You are right. It was the Christian god that I felt I couldn't worship. But over the years I have studied many religions, their origins, history etc. I was on a journey to find something I could embrace. For awhile Buddhism was where I landed. I saw a lot of what Jesus preached in Buddhism which is actually what got me started on researching the origins of religions more in-depth. 55 years later I have reached a place where I really do believe that we have created all the gods this world has ever worshiped. We humans have wanted to live forever, be protected by a higher stronger power etc. and so we've created religious beliefs worldwide since we were able to conceive of an afterlife. Many of the early beliefs were of a more practical nature and not as mystical as some of the later gods. Spirits in everything, nature worshiped, the sun worshiped etc. One thing they all had in common was that their gods all reflected the cultures they originated in. Knowing how many versions there were of early Christianity was an eye opener. How similar the dying rising godman was to other earlier religions in the Middle East area. The fact that the Hebrews shared gods with surrounding nations at one point in their religious evolution was also interesting to learn. So I reached a place about 8 years ago where I went from agnostic to atheist. I'm not hardcore. I keep my mind open to possibilities, I don't try to destroy the faith of others beyond just me talking about what I have learned and why I am where I am. But I have no ability to believe in any god. So that's where I stand. I thought your meme of the professing girl was fun. My trajectory is in reverse except that I don't think I ever went so far as the first two in the meme  I'm fairly quiet (you wouldn't know that from on here though lol) I love to read and research things, and I dress comfortably. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2023 14:07:14 GMT -5
Not with the way she is advertising...in what world dressed like that would be a good heart? Outward appearance don't always mean true to God, but there is a line... What if she's never heard the truth and doesn't know God? But she helps people and is kind and caring and does those things without a judgemental heart and shares with what little she has? And what if the one "dressed right" said she knows God, but has a hard heart, looks the part but looks down at others, judgemental uncaring professing to know the truth, but wouldn't help others? Which one has the better heart? We can't judge people like that, only God can judge the heart Wally. We just speak the things of God, live it out and bring God to those around us, whoever they are, and leave him to do the judging. The true word of God can do miraculous things and change the heart and ways of many who truly listen, take it in and then live it out. Once we know the truth, and live by it, then the outward appearance starts to change. I had bleached hair, make up, I dressed up you would have judged me as you judge that woman, but God has blessed me and opened my eyes and those things mean nothing to me any longer and I'm changed. And I thank him for it, because he knew my heart. In the parable of the sower, Jesus didn't say that the seed fell into ground that looked perfect on the surface, he said it fell into good ground and that's a good heart. It's not what's outside it's what's inside that counts. Also in that picture, all those women may not know God, but the woman first in the picture could even be the one to who listens to the things of God before the last one. Jesus said he came to save sinners but he can't get into a hard heart that stays hard, a heart of those who see themselves as perfect, proud, above others, looking down on people and judgemental, unless, hopefully they start to soften up when they hear God's word. Just look at the pharasees, they looked right on the outside, but Jesus said they were dead inside. But those like the woman caught in adultery, whom the pharasees looked down on listened to Jesus. The pharasees even looked down on Jesus himself, because their hearts were far from God, no matter how right they looked. God looks at the heart! Christ also mentioned that evil people do good to others too, did that mean they were on the right track? He also mentions he sends the good rain on both evil and good did that mean they were not doing evil? Nope. No one suggested that you enter the kingdom first as a finished work already. I think that meme shows exactly what you just said. I believe I mentioned outward doesn't mean on Gods side either. In the meantime, there is a line that is crossed that isn't helpful at all to the person or others around them on that particular issue. No one condemned her to hell but would correctly say "that's not right/nice/lewd or hey wait a minute". I don't see Christ walking up to anyone dressed like that and say "you look great today". |
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Post by Dan on Aug 5, 2023 14:08:22 GMT -5
......... The Transformation of a lost soul ...........
................... Into a Professing girl .....................
In that picture that you've posted, the girl depicted as a lost soul, could have a better heart than the one depicted as a professing girl!
Possibly, but not likely? Its the same girl and same heart, but the transformation begins when she bends over and picks up the bible. An outward change is often reflective of an inward revelation.
I get what your saying though, ones physical appearance is not always depictive of what's in ones heart. Looking the part can be a facade and doesn't automatically equate to a flawless Christian demeanor.
We know that ain't always true.. Myself being the exception of course  |
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Post by snow on Aug 5, 2023 14:20:38 GMT -5
Oh I see. I apologize, I have always thought you said you knew yourself and that you wouldn't be the person you are without God. I always took that to mean that you thought you couldn't be good without a relationship with God. Now I understand what you mean. For me I see that as maturing. I am not the person I was even when I professed years ago. No I wouldn't be the person I am without God, just because I did good doesn't mean I didn't do wrong either. He's changed me by helping me overcome the wrong things I was doing. But just because I did wrong doesn't mean I didn't do any good, I did. I just didn't see that I was wrong and saw myself as ok, until God shone a light into my heart and showed me my faults. And I'm not perfect, I have to fight myself all the time, but the strength of God helps me to overcome. I've said this before, but when you switch a light on in a dark room, you don't just see what's in the room, but you see the dirt as well. And that's what God did in my heart, he didn't just open my eyes, he showed me my faults too. I was blind to it all before but like the light brings you out of darkness, so did God to me, when he opened the eyes of my heart. I think that's just the way of being human. We do good, but we also do wrong. For me that's inevitable. Even with God no one is ever going to never do wrong. We live, we hopefully learn, and we try to not repeat what we know caused hurt or harm in the past. Doesn't mean we never will, but hopefully it means it won't happen as often. |
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Post by Dan on Aug 5, 2023 14:29:04 GMT -5
I don't want be appear misogynistic, so to be fair and unbiased, here's a depiction of the evolution of a professing boy;
A remarkable transformation eh! |
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Post by snow on Aug 5, 2023 14:30:38 GMT -5
In that picture that you've posted, the girl depicted as a lost soul, could have a better heart than the one depicted as a professing girl! Not with the way she is advertising...in what world dressed like that would be a good heart? Outward appearance don't always mean true to God, but there is a line... I agree with Maryhig. Some of the meanest, cruelest women out there dress like puritans. Outward appearance is never a good way to determine the compassion and kindness of a person. |
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Post by snow on Aug 5, 2023 14:33:32 GMT -5
What if she's never heard the truth and doesn't know God? But she helps people and is kind and caring and does those things without a judgemental heart and shares with what little she has? And what if the one "dressed right" said she knows God, but has a hard heart, looks the part but looks down at others, judgemental uncaring professing to know the truth, but wouldn't help others? Which one has the better heart? We can't judge people like that, only God can judge the heart Wally. We just speak the things of God, live it out and bring God to those around us, whoever they are, and leave him to do the judging. The true word of God can do miraculous things and change the heart and ways of many who truly listen, take it in and then live it out. Once we know the truth, and live by it, then the outward appearance starts to change. I had bleached hair, make up, I dressed up you would have judged me as you judge that woman, but God has blessed me and opened my eyes and those things mean nothing to me any longer and I'm changed. And I thank him for it, because he knew my heart. In the parable of the sower, Jesus didn't say that the seed fell into ground that looked perfect on the surface, he said it fell into good ground and that's a good heart. It's not what's outside it's what's inside that counts. Also in that picture, all those women may not know God, but the woman first in the picture could even be the one to who listens to the things of God before the last one. Jesus said he came to save sinners but he can't get into a hard heart that stays hard, a heart of those who see themselves as perfect, proud, above others, looking down on people and judgemental, unless, hopefully they start to soften up when they hear God's word. Just look at the pharasees, they looked right on the outside, but Jesus said they were dead inside. But those like the woman caught in adultery, whom the pharasees looked down on listened to Jesus. The pharasees even looked down on Jesus himself, because their hearts were far from God, no matter how right they looked. God looks at the heart! Christ also mentioned that evil people do good to others too, did that mean they were on the right track? He also mentions he sends the good rain on both evil and good did that mean they were not doing evil? Nope. No one suggested that you enter the kingdom first as a finished work already. I think that meme shows exactly what you just said. I believe I mentioned outward doesn't mean on Gods side either. In the meantime, there is a line that is crossed that isn't helpful at all to the person or others around them on that particular issue. No one condemned her to hell but would correctly say "that's not right/nice/lewd or hey wait a minute". I don't see Christ walking up to anyone dressed like that and say "you look great today". Mary Magdalene? They judged her and Jesus apparently valued her a lot and stuck up for her. |
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Post by snow on Aug 5, 2023 14:36:03 GMT -5
I don't want be appear misogynist, so to be fair and unbiased, here's a depiction of the evolution of a professing boy; A remarkable transformation eh! Finally a man that acknowledges that worldly men don't look any different from 2x2 men. But worldly women look different from a 2x2 woman. But there are no dress codes....  |
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But I don't have a God in my life and yet I have a strong desire to do no harm and help where I can. 
I'm fairly quiet (you wouldn't know that from on here though lol) I love to read and research things, and I dress comfortably. 
