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Post by Pragmatic on May 17, 2023 18:39:51 GMT -5
Ditto that. It is possible that some might be, but in general if people have felt deceived about what has been a big lifetime and emotional investment for many years, they will feel various degrees of hurt, anger. That depends on the makeup of the person, and their personal experience.
If they need or wish to vent, on here, or require counseling, then so be it, if it helps.
It is on us inside the church to build bridges where none exist, and to strengthen those that do exist, to these people. Not because we are right, and they are wrong,(which isn't the right perspective, by the way) but because it is the right thing to do. They are our fellow men and women on the journey through life.
Sorry if I seem to be overly fussy about word choice but I don’t like “vent” either. Read def for this slang word below. It is also a loaded sort of derogatory term. Like we are just children lacking control of our emotions and just need a place to spout. It is condescending. Now let’s look at the worker spouting in bold print. I can’t even read it. It looks like he’s yelling. Maybe if he chose italics, or some other font. to express a negative emotion in a forceful and often unfair way: Please don't shout - there's no need to vent your frustration/anger/rage/spleen on me. I didn't mean to upset anyone, I just needed to vent. In my country it doesn't have the same connotation and is a very common expression among psychologists when dealing with people who have been traumatised by a religious upbringing. And I checked this with my daughter who has a degree in psychology. In this context, it is usually defining people expressing what they previously suppressed.
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Post by getreal on May 17, 2023 19:01:04 GMT -5
Sure, words can have different connotations in different cultures. That is why it is so horribly easy to offend completely unknowingly. There is lots of study re venting maybe more in relationships as being not helpful. Maybe to your therapist it is ok. As a rule, in other settings, not so helpful and I would never characterize the letters sent in by victims and concerned friends and workers and ex’s as venting. That was my point.
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peggysullivan
Senior Member
What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
Posts: 651
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Post by peggysullivan on May 17, 2023 19:04:41 GMT -5
People who are bitter are found in all walks of life, including some that are currently going to meetings and taking part. I knew a professing lady who was bitter and professing til the day she died. Her experiences in life were big contributions to that. I found out many years after she died that her father sexually abused her. Processing man, elder. He husband died; she never remarried and raised a family on her own. She didn’t really have a love for the truth, but her whole family and extended family were in it. When I think of bitter people, she is one of the most I have ever met.
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Post by getreal on May 17, 2023 19:33:29 GMT -5
And I have liked many things you have said. It was just these 2 words that hit me.
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Post by fixit on May 17, 2023 19:43:15 GMT -5
Anyway Elizabeth despite your attempt at deflection... Have you thought about being a good example and refraining from deflection yourself?
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 17, 2023 20:54:27 GMT -5
Hi, I’m new here and have been meandering around the site. My short time on here has me scratching my head. I have a genuine curiosity: Why are bitter exes on here and so active? It seems that the majority of them run this site. Not all of course, but definitely majority of those that post. (I have no problem with any of that. If I don’t like what I see, I can leave.) It seems obvious that a lot of you haven’t been apart of the truth in many decades. As one still very happy in the truth (I know, a lot of you hate me now) I just wonder what keeps you coming back on here? It takes a lot of time and mental/emotional bandwidth to be active on here, and it only seems to be a lot of negativity, and no really problem solving or encouraging talks. I guess if I left an organization upset or just in general, I’d fill my time and thoughts toward family or wood working or golf or volunteering or relaxing, etc. Life’s so short. Seems a little bit like almost like a dog returning to its vomit? Wouldn’t you want a clean break? The following are not accusations just my thoughts while reading a lot of your comments. This is why I’m asking you to explain… “Why do they come back on here to feed on the negativity? Why are they so angry towards the truth, did they ever get what it’s truly about? Why are they so eager for the truth/ministry/meetings to shut down? Is it because deep down God has put something in their hearts a long time ago that they cannot run from and when they slow down and are honest with themselves, they know what’s right? and that shutting the truth down and tryin to show they are a “fraud” would help justify not listening to that voice anymore?” I’m not criticizing, I’m just curious as to why. I have a soft spot for those that arnt in our fellowship anymore, and I have good friends and family that have left. It’s just Kinda fascinating to me, from a psychology standpoint. I’m happy to discuss anything with those that arnt mean spirited. Happy to hear your thoughts. You make some wild accusations. Bitter. Nope. My attitude to the friends is one of amusement and sorrow. Negativity. Nope. Not from this chap. I have a very postive life once I left the cult. I do find that people sweeping sexual abuse of of children and adults to be negative. Maybe you would like to spend some time sorting that out. Hate. Well kiddy fkers definetly need a bit of hate. As do people who use their position to have unwanted sex with an adult. Perhaps you could ask some questions of your cult as to why so many of them get their jollies this way. I don't know of any ex eager to shut the meetings down. Looks like it's self destructing all by itself. Matters such as sexual abuse, tax fraud and entering a foreign country claiming to be an English teacher will take care of a few of your faithful. As for a god putting something in my heart, I no longer believe in your mythological gods and devils so they have no effect on me.
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Post by fixit on May 17, 2023 20:57:36 GMT -5
The doctrine of exclusivity may have worked in the early 1900's, but doesn't anymore. The ministry and fellowship grew at it's fastest rate prior to exclusivity. After exclusivity became entrenched most of the growth was due to children of the friends professing. From around 1980 the birthrate slowed down and many left due to information being more readily available (e.g. dishonesty over the fellowship's history and atrocious worker behavior).
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Post by fixit on May 17, 2023 21:24:52 GMT -5
People who are bitter are found in all walks of life, including some that are currently going to meetings and taking part. I knew a professing lady who was bitter and professing til the day she died. Her experiences in life were big contributions to that. I found out many years after she died that her father sexually abused her. Processing man, elder. He husband died; she never remarried and raised a family on her own. She didn’t really have a love for the truth, but her whole family and extended family were in it. When I think of bitter people, she is one of the most I have ever met. Sexual abuse by her father, an elder in the church, would be good reason to be bitter.
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Post by fixit on May 17, 2023 21:34:07 GMT -5
Thanks to umfolozi and elzabethcoleman for the background here. This is causing more thoughts to bubble up. Trying to get an accurate wide angle view is hard here. It looks like those who suffered a form of authoritarian religious trauma can anecdotally go story for story with a "believer"and not get very close to any agreement about what the 2x2 system is or produces. Both sides make claims that seem to invalidate the other sides stated lived experience. If you were the subject of abuse.... no story of grace or forgiveness or joy will ever ameliorate what you experienced. And the person who finds meaning, fulfillment, community, and strength in the "way" or "truth" is going to resist discarding something they value. Obviously, a "burn it down" past member will probably never see eye to eye with an unexamined zealot.... But I get the sense that those would represent the small, vocal extremes. Are there broad points of agreement between past members and current members that both would agree is characteristic of the movement? Maybe one point, the ending of CSA/SA... I really appreciate having this in common with you Wally.
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jane
Junior Member
Posts: 89
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Post by jane on May 17, 2023 23:21:58 GMT -5
I also don't think the word 'bitter' is appropriate. Its rude. I am very thankful for all who post on this forum. I am grateful they are doing more than 'golfing and woodworking' . I have searched this site for 10+ years and found more reliable information than talking with workers and friends. I have only become an active poster in the past month and i have found great support from each post/thread. If we surround ourselves with only those who believe the same things as us...we will not grow. I don't always agree with each poster, and thats okay. We can all learn from one another. Also-I have found those who have left this faith, have often left for reasons they can explain...but how often do we really ask why and listen rather than just say they 'lost their faith' or 'not listening to God's voice'. Some have reasons (as we have seen esp lately) to be angry and 'bitter'. We have failed so many with the choices that have been made. We don't get to judge when someone has harsh words or feelings towards this faith. and lets not forget, if it wasn't for those 'bitter ex's' this CSA stuff would have been swept under the rug ONCE AGAIN.
Better question-why did you search and find this site? Why did you feel moved to sign up? What are you wanting to get out of your time here?
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Post by getreal on May 17, 2023 23:25:40 GMT -5
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Post by getreal on May 17, 2023 23:44:49 GMT -5
And if you read the article I think you will agree it is not a word to lightly ascribe to anyone let alone people you do not know. If any of the many, many, many oh so many people who have suffered trauma over decades and some share here have moments of bitterness let’s just say that is completely ok. I think I sound bitter about this post subject 😵💫
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Post by mrdobalina on May 18, 2023 0:28:52 GMT -5
"Bitter Exes", an over used under researched cliché. See curlys post above.
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Post by mrdobalina on May 18, 2023 0:31:37 GMT -5
Hi, I’m new here and have been meandering around the site. My short time on here has me scratching my head. I have a genuine curiosity: Why are bitter exes on here and so active? It seems that the majority of them run this site. Not all of course, but definitely majority of those that post. (I have no problem with any of that. If I don’t like what I see, I can leave.) It seems obvious that a lot of you haven’t been apart of the truth in many decades. As one still very happy in the truth (I know, a lot of you hate me now) I just wonder what keeps you coming back on here? It takes a lot of time and mental/emotional bandwidth to be active on here, and it only seems to be a lot of negativity, and no really problem solving or encouraging talks. I guess if I left an organization upset or just in general, I’d fill my time and thoughts toward family or wood working or golf or volunteering or relaxing, etc. Life’s so short. Seems a little bit like almost like a dog returning to its vomit? Wouldn’t you want a clean break? The following are not accusations just my thoughts while reading a lot of your comments. This is why I’m asking you to explain… “Why do they come back on here to feed on the negativity? Why are they so angry towards the truth, did they ever get what it’s truly about? Why are they so eager for the truth/ministry/meetings to shut down? Is it because deep down God has put something in their hearts a long time ago that they cannot run from and when they slow down and are honest with themselves, they know what’s right? and that shutting the truth down and tryin to show they are a “fraud” would help justify not listening to that voice anymore?” I’m not criticizing, I’m just curious as to why. I have a soft spot for those that arnt in our fellowship anymore, and I have good friends and family that have left. It’s just Kinda fascinating to me, from a psychology standpoint. I’m happy to discuss anything with those that arnt mean spirited. Happy to hear your thoughts. You make some wild accusations. Bitter. Nope. My attitude to the friends is one of amusement and sorrow. Negativity. Nope. Not from this chap. I have a very postive life once I left the cult. I do find that people sweeping sexual abuse of of children and adults to be negative. Maybe you would like to spend some time sorting that out. Hate. Well kiddy fkers definetly need a bit of hate. As do people who use their position to have unwanted sex with an adult. Perhaps you could ask some questions of your cult as to why so many of them get their jollies this way. I don't know of any ex eager to shut the meetings down. Looks like it's self destructing all by itself. Matters such as sexual abuse, tax fraud and entering a foreign country claiming to be an English teacher will take care of a few of your faithful. As for a god putting something in my heart, I no longer believe in your mythological gods and devils so they have no effect on me. If god "put something in you heart" wouldn't that make god the dick, not you?
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Post by Pragmatic on May 18, 2023 3:12:42 GMT -5
I don't like the term bitter exes. If some are bitter, why and what was said or done by who that made them that way? And isn't that where the focus should be?
Many are justifiably annoyed, angry or feeling deceived, for example, about the beginnings being hidden, or never openly admitted to or discussed. A bit like a tacit lie. I believe that is a perfectly valid emotion that needs no validation. These people have been hurt.
I was fortunate in that I had researched things enough before professing and when the Secret Sect came out, it was nothing knew. Having an old Irish relative in the work also helped, as it was openly acknowledged and discussed by him when I was a kid. So I was spared the emotion that many would have felt when learning for the first time that a deception had occurred.
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Post by Dan on May 18, 2023 3:14:27 GMT -5
I also don't think the word 'bitter' is appropriate. Its rude. I am very thankful for all who post on this forum. I am grateful they are doing more than 'golfing and woodworking' . I have searched this site for 10+ years and found more reliable information than talking with workers and friends. I have only become an active poster in the past month and i have found great support from each post/thread. If we surround ourselves with only those who believe the same things as us...we will not grow. I don't always agree with each poster, and thats okay. We can all learn from one another. Also-I have found those who have left this faith, have often left for reasons they can explain...but how often do we really ask why and listen rather than just say they 'lost their faith' or 'not listening to God's voice'. Some have reasons (as we have seen esp lately) to be angry and 'bitter'. We have failed so many with the choices that have been made. We don't get to judge when someone has harsh words or feelings towards this faith. and lets not forget, if it wasn't for those 'bitter ex's' this CSA stuff would have been swept under the rug ONCE AGAIN. Better question-why did you search and find this site? Why did you feel moved to sign up? What are you wanting to get out of your time here? There are bitter, even angry people here who resent the Truth, to the point where they rejected Christianity all together and became atheist or agnostic. They now mock and hate the bible. So I kinda doubt it was the 2x2's that set them off, but just disbelief from the onset. I personally was never bitter, just confused...Still am half the time . Not everyone has an ax to grind, but most are strongly opinionated. But most ex's aren't bitter, they just disagree with the over-regulated rules, exclusivity, guilt, restrictions, dress codes, earned salvation instead of grace, no triune God, the silent treatment, unfair judgement, hidden detrimental activities, sweeping problems under the rug, salvation only through Workers, and them being the only true way instead of Christ. The recent revelation of infidelity, adultery, fornication, pornography, under age sexual abuse, and rape, have just put an explanation mark on the whole ball of wax. Most feel sad though, not bitter.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 18, 2023 3:50:31 GMT -5
I don't like the term bitter exes. If some are bitter, why and what was said or done by who that made them that way? And isn't that where the focus should be? Many are justifiably annoyed, angry or feeling deceived, for example, about the beginnings being hidden, or never openly admitted to or discussed. A bit like a tacit lie. I believe that is a perfectly valid emotion that needs no validation. These people have been hurt. I was fortunate in that I had researched things enough before professing and when the Secret Sect came out, it was nothing knew. Having an old Irish relative in the work also helped, as it was openly acknowledged and discussed by him when I was a kid. So I was spared the emotion that many would have felt when learning for the first time that a deception had occurred. My dad, who you knew, told me a lot about Irvine. I have forgotten most of the details apart from Dad saying that Irvine was the first worker and started the church.
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Post by Pragmatic on May 18, 2023 5:01:53 GMT -5
Yeah the Irish and some of the Poms, had no compunction in talking about the beginnings.
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Post by fixit on May 18, 2023 5:25:51 GMT -5
I have found those who have left this faith, have often left for reasons they can explain...but how often do we really ask why and listen rather than just say they 'lost their faith' or 'not listening to God's voice'. Some have reasons (as we have seen esp lately) to be angry and 'bitter'. We have failed so many with the choices that have been made. I wish workers would talk like that.
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Post by alwaysbekind on May 18, 2023 13:21:13 GMT -5
I've tried to re-word it so it's not miscontrued. Thanks. Oops, it's me, apologies, I meant I didn't enjoy the way "allwaysbekind" asked his or her question but I will give "allwaysbekind" the benefit of the doubt. Oh my me and the English language🤣 To all above comments: Thank you for respectfully sharing your experience, background, and perspective. I didn’t want to join in here on this forum, but some of the things I’ve read on this site from SOME (not all) representing our faith I strongly disagree with either what they say and/or the spirit of how they say it) and everyone that I know inside, would too. I’m not clumping anyone together on that, it just made me sad to read some of the arguments from those claiming to be inside our faith. I’m not here recruit anyone or cause trouble, but maybe just to help bridge the gap. I feel really bad for those that have experience terrible things in our faith and been treated so poorly, and I’m sorry. To Umfolozi: After this comment, I went and reread my first post and you’re right, the tone or the questions could have been articulated a lot better. so I apologize for that and thank you for giving me the benefit of the doubt as that was not my intention to ruffle feathers, offend, or argue my point, but to learn and listen to the other side. I think you also had an issue with me lumping all of the exes together as “bitter exes”. I do not think that. One of the comments above pointed out that there’s a diverse group of exes on here (and everywhere), which is what I’ve always thought. We are all individual, anyways. I was more curious to hear from the more bitter exes, specifically, but very happy to hear everyone’s perspective. Sorry to offend you!
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Post by countryroads on May 18, 2023 13:24:32 GMT -5
Hi, I’m new here and have been meandering around the site. My short time on here has me scratching my head. I have a genuine curiosity: Why are bitter exes on here and so active? It seems that the majority of them run this site. Not all of course, but definitely majority of those that post. (I have no problem with any of that. If I don’t like what I see, I can leave.) It seems obvious that a lot of you haven’t been apart of the truth in many decades. As one still very happy in the truth (I know, a lot of you hate me now) I just wonder what keeps you coming back on here? It takes a lot of time and mental/emotional bandwidth to be active on here, and it only seems to be a lot of negativity, and no really problem solving or encouraging talks. I guess if I left an organization upset or just in general, I’d fill my time and thoughts toward family or wood working or golf or volunteering or relaxing, etc. Life’s so short. Seems a little bit like almost like a dog returning to its vomit? Wouldn’t you want a clean break? The following are not accusations just my thoughts while reading a lot of your comments. This is why I’m asking you to explain… “Why do they come back on here to feed on the negativity? Why are they so angry towards the truth, did they ever get what it’s truly about? Why are they so eager for the truth/ministry/meetings to shut down? Is it because deep down God has put something in their hearts a long time ago that they cannot run from and when they slow down and are honest with themselves, they know what’s right? and that shutting the truth down and tryin to show they are a “fraud” would help justify not listening to that voice anymore?” I’m not criticizing, I’m just curious as to why. I have a soft spot for those that arnt in our fellowship anymore, and I have good friends and family that have left. It’s just Kinda fascinating to me, from a psychology standpoint. I’m happy to discuss anything with those that arnt mean spirited. Happy to hear your thoughts. My first post here. I professed from ages 12 to sometime in my 20s (when I left was a moving target). I have a much richer faith now than ever. I first came here researching for a book, but check back now and again. The wording of your questions hit me. For decades none of the current or former friends had any access to information such as what most organizations would call a membership roster. Making literal friendships with "the friends" depended on who you interacted with in meetings and conventions. Former members were completely on their own depending on the extent to which they were shunned by their family. I think places like this message board represent a massive cathartic exercise to many who have suffered emotional trauma and isolation. Particularly if a person spent decades of their life in the meeting, the idea of a "clean break" is a fantasy. There are family members still in the meeting. There is significant mental and emotional recovery to be done. Depending on the personal experience of the person it can be a bit like waking from a coma in a socialization sense. This board has people who understand. The idea that former members who are processing mental and emotional trauma that manifests itself in a wide range of emotions - sorrow, fear, excitement, anxiety, and even anger - are actually experiencing the "knowledge of truth" pricking their conscience is the most effective, crippling, manipulative myths that prey on the minds of former members. I am not even saying it is intentional on the part of those in the meeting or the workers. It is like if I were raised from a baby being told that if I ever wore a green shirt I would die in a car accident. Maybe not immediately, but early and eventually. That thought was drilled into me from the time of infancy. Over and over and over. If I made the decision to no longer let this thing control my actions, and made a break in my adulthood, you can bet I am going to have to process some pretty heavy anxiety and emotional trauma every time I put on a green shirt. My adult brain may recognize it is not true. I may know with every fiber in my being it is not true. But those grooves in the record are too deep. That takes time. And wouldn't it be awfully convenient for those who drilled this concept into me to say that my anxiety every time I put on a green shirt was actually my "conscience struggling with what I know to be true." It is a devastatingly effective deception, even if the deceiver believes it - perhaps especially since the deceiver believes it. So from that sense, perhaps you have stumbled on something approximating the truth with your final question. Maybe it does help to quell that anxiety to come to a place like this and reinforce the reasons for leaving the meeting in the first place. To come somewhere where like minded people can get together to communally repair the synapses in their mind, heart, and soul. Not for justification for leaving "truth" but for support in rebuilding patterns of thought and emotion which have been stunted and damaged.
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Post by getreal on May 18, 2023 13:46:35 GMT -5
Thank you. I came to the forum recently because covid stopped me as so many and made me reflect and I slowly out some things together finally. I articulated it to my family and now here. I noticed as I speak up my night terrors are less common and less intense. I can’t face going to a therapist because of the energy and time it would take to explain this group to someone and then maybe they wouldn’t even help me. Here, most know. We know. That is really something. Its been a big help in short time.
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Post by alwaysbekind on May 18, 2023 14:14:17 GMT -5
I also don't think the word 'bitter' is appropriate. It’s rude. I am very thankful for all who post on this forum. I am grateful they are doing more than 'golfing and woodworking' . I have searched this site for 10+ years and found more reliable information than talking with workers and friends. I have only become an active poster in the past month and i have found great support from each post/thread. If we surround ourselves with only those who believe the same things as us...we will not grow. I don't always agree with each poster, and thats okay. We can all learn from one another. Also-I have found those who have left this faith, have often left for reasons they can explain...but how often do we really ask why and listen rather than just say they 'lost their faith' or 'not listening to God's voice'. Some have reasons (as we have seen esp lately) to be angry and 'bitter'. We have failed so many with the choices that have been made. We don't get to judge when someone has harsh words or feelings towards this faith. and lets not forget, if it wasn't for those 'bitter ex's' this CSA stuff would have been swept under the rug ONCE AGAIN. Better question-why did you search and find this site? Why did you feel moved to sign up? What are you wanting to get out of your time here? Thank you for your comment. I agree with a lot of your points! I’m glad you have found a lot of info and support on here, especially lately. I’m glad there’s a place on here that people can go to get support and healing. My original post was directed towards those that come off more bitter, what kept them coming back here. I think I’ve got a good understanding as I read through all of the comments. I do not believe all exes are bitter, but some do seem that way and several refer to themselves on here as bitter exes on this site. I will be careful using that term from here on out. To answer your questions: I’ve found this site a while back, but more recently googled a name and this came up. I signed up because I felt there were SOME on here not representing our faith properly, and it made me really sad. Things said that our faith doesn’t agree with and/or said with the wrong spirit. Maybe properly isn’t the right word, (because not me or anyone else represents a whole group of anything properly) but different from how me and all of my friends and family that I know would feel. Different from my perspective in the truth. I detail my intentions more if you scroll up a couple comments. I can’t speak for everyone or the whole faith, but I feel I have a good pulse on things and can speak for a lot of the friends. Seems like some good dialogue is needed on here, and communication helps with everything in life, including eliminating/mitigating CSA. And like you said, it’s not good to live in an echo chamber, but to see things from all perspectives. I hope to learn more on here from other peoples experiences. We learn more from those critiquing us than those complimenting us. Although I’m not sure how active I’ll be on here, time will tell.
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Post by verna on May 18, 2023 14:20:16 GMT -5
Hi, I’m new here and have been meandering around the site. My short time on here has me scratching my head. I have a genuine curiosity: Why are bitter exes on here and so active? It seems that the majority of them run this site. Not all of course, but definitely majority of those that post. (I have no problem with any of that. If I don’t like what I see, I can leave.) It seems obvious that a lot of you haven’t been apart of the truth in many decades. As one still very happy in the truth (I know, a lot of you hate me now) I just wonder what keeps you coming back on here? It takes a lot of time and mental/emotional bandwidth to be active on here, and it only seems to be a lot of negativity, and no really problem solving or encouraging talks. I guess if I left an organization upset or just in general, I’d fill my time and thoughts toward family or wood working or golf or volunteering or relaxing, etc. Life’s so short. Seems a little bit like almost like a dog returning to its vomit? Wouldn’t you want a clean break? The following are not accusations just my thoughts while reading a lot of your comments. This is why I’m asking you to explain… “Why do they come back on here to feed on the negativity? Why are they so angry towards the truth, did they ever get what it’s truly about? Why are they so eager for the truth/ministry/meetings to shut down? Is it because deep down God has put something in their hearts a long time ago that they cannot run from and when they slow down and are honest with themselves, they know what’s right? and that shutting the truth down and tryin to show they are a “fraud” would help justify not listening to that voice anymore?” I’m not criticizing, I’m just curious as to why. I have a soft spot for those that arnt in our fellowship anymore, and I have good friends and family that have left. It’s just Kinda fascinating to me, from a psychology standpoint. I’m happy to discuss anything with those that arnt mean spirited. Happy to hear your thoughts. My first post here. I professed from ages 12 to sometime in my 20s (when I left was a moving target). I have a much richer faith now than ever. I first came here researching for a book, but check back now and again. The wording of your questions hit me. For decades none of the current or former friends had any access to information such as what most organizations would call a membership roster. Making literal friendships with "the friends" depended on who you interacted with in meetings and conventions. Former members were completely on their own depending on the extent to which they were shunned by their family. I think places like this message board represent a massive cathartic exercise to many who have suffered emotional trauma and isolation. Particularly if a person spent decades of their life in the meeting, the idea of a "clean break" is a fantasy. There are family members still in the meeting. There is significant mental and emotional recovery to be done. Depending on the personal experience of the person it can be a bit like waking from a coma in a socialization sense. This board has people who understand. The idea that former members who are processing mental and emotional trauma that manifests itself in a wide range of emotions - sorrow, fear, excitement, anxiety, and even anger - are actually experiencing the "knowledge of truth" pricking their conscience is the most effective, crippling, manipulative myths that prey on the minds of former members. I am not even saying it is intentional on the part of those in the meeting or the workers. It is like if I were raised from a baby being told that if I ever wore a green shirt I would die in a car accident. Maybe not immediately, but early and eventually. That thought was drilled into me from the time of infancy. Over and over and over. If I made the decision to no longer let this thing control my actions, and made a break in my adulthood, you can bet I am going to have to process some pretty heavy anxiety and emotional trauma every time I put on a green shirt. My adult brain may recognize it is not true. I may know with every fiber in my being it is not true. But those grooves in the record are too deep. That takes time. And wouldn't it be awfully convenient for those who drilled this concept into me to say that my anxiety every time I put on a green shirt was actually my "conscience struggling with what I know to be true." It is a devastatingly effective deception, even if the deceiver believes it - perhaps especially since the deceiver believes it. So from that sense, perhaps you have stumbled on something approximating the truth with your final question. Maybe it does help to quell that anxiety to come to a place like this and reinforce the reasons for leaving the meeting in the first place. To come somewhere where like minded people can get together to communally repair the synapses in their mind, heart, and soul. Not for justification for leaving "truth" but for support in rebuilding patterns of thought and emotion which have been stunted and damaged. Thanks so much for this. It says so much of what I would want to say. I haven’t yet even been able to respond to the original post yet. Too many triggers. Brain shuts down. Basically - hell ya I’m angry! If you want to call that bitter, so be it.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 18, 2023 14:55:24 GMT -5
I suspect there would be no chnage at all in the church if it were not people on the outside putting pressure on the workers. The threat of prosecution hangs heavy over them.
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Post by fixit on May 18, 2023 15:24:53 GMT -5
We learn more from those critiquing us than those complimenting us. Very true, but in a tribe there's reward for complimenting and punishment for critiquing. We're taught that "our usefulness is in fitting in".
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Post by getreal on May 18, 2023 15:57:53 GMT -5
I suspect there would be no chnage at all in the church if it were not people on the outside putting pressure on the workers. The threat of prosecution hangs heavy over them. I took on an overseer during covid and won and danced a jig. I got wind of some worker activity early on and I got concerned it might cause an outbreak and it might harm my family. So I got word to the overseer to call me and he did. I stated my concerns, and he tried to blow it off with the old trope, “well, we’re all going to die.” Like it was news. So tiresome. I said, “well, you don’t get to decide when.”” At that time another insular church culture was having an outbreak and in the news. I said, “do you want to get in the news.” He chuckled and said no. Long story short he called the health dept to find out as a business what measures they needed to take because I said I would report them if he didn’t. He learned a few things and I thanked him. He didn’t thank me. Later they were reported by outsiders because of things they saw. I wonder if he was grateful for my help then. Anyway, I felt so empowered. These men who had all power over me, making decisions and deciding whether I was good or bad, not even knowing me, having little to no regard for my input, treating me as expendable, had to listen and do something they didn’t want to. I tell you it quickly got cold. All the pretense of love and care quickly fell away. Cards were on the table. You have go head to head with these guys. They are so comfortable with their position on high. They will not change unless forced.
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peggysullivan
Senior Member
What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
Posts: 651
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Post by peggysullivan on May 18, 2023 16:00:56 GMT -5
I signed up here shortly after hearing about Dean Bruer. I felt the need to write/share some of my own thoughts and feelings related to sexual abuse, immorality and hypocrisy.
I really do feel requiring the workers to be sex and intimate relationship free is a set up for the cover ups and also a whole lot of shame…. Not to mention deviant behavior.
To feel shame over something that is normal and natural, such as consensual relationships is twisted. A person is not meant to carry around undo guilt when they are redeemed and free in Christ!
The issue of CSA/SA, falls within the boundaries of what is considered criminal and should be handled by the authorities.
So, in the name of the “truth” and upholding tradition they have made things more complicated and worse.
Now one case after another are coming to light and so I wonder if this abuse is pervasive? If it’s pervasive in the truth, why? Is it because of how sex is viewed by workers and some friends? It’s taboo, shameful? Or, are those who already have a sexual perversion drawn to the work as a means to somehow manage it?
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