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Post by Dan on May 13, 2023 13:49:26 GMT -5
Update: WINGS admins have edited the post and removed their names. “Lyle Schober advises that [male worker name redacted] and [female worker name redacted] have been asked to step down for unstated reasons WINGS Note: There is no suggestion that either worker was involved in child abuse but the circumstances of their removal has not been clarified.” Hmmm…and just like that, transparency has been removed and replaced with secrecy. That’s ok, we seem to find out plenty!
Just what I was thinking... Silence is not golden these days, full disclosure should prevail... "Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet." (Napoleon Bonaparte)
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Post by jonathan on May 13, 2023 14:33:09 GMT -5
The reason for the sw to be asked to step out of the work needs to be described more fully. Like mdm is trying to say, it's unfortunate her name is mentioned among those guilty of CSA/SA, although in his mag Lyle S did make shorten mention it was not for CSA/SA.
A fuller description of the reason will confirm and entrench that it wasn't for CSA/SA.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 13, 2023 14:53:36 GMT -5
I don't like this.......there's something that's not passing the sniff test for me. From what I can figure out, there are three main reasons why workers are getting the chop. CSA/SA/ Wrong doctrine Making too much noise about the current situation. The big cheese's are removing anyone that is or can be a threat to their position.
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Post by snow on May 13, 2023 15:41:04 GMT -5
She got ousted because she supported CSA survivors?!!! That is unconscionable. Why in the world would they kick out a worker that tried to help CSA survivors. All their talk about change and what they are going to do just became a lie imo. They are talking the talk so people think they are doing something and they can protect themselves but they sure aren't walking the walk.
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Post by snow on May 13, 2023 15:47:11 GMT -5
I don't like this.......there's something that's not passing the sniff test for me. From what I can figure out, there are three main reasons why workers are getting the chop. CSA/SA/ Wrong doctrine Making too much noise about the current situation. The big cheese's are removing anyone that is or can be a threat to their position. Well if they are removing those that are supporting the abuse survivors, they are digging their own graves. In this environment it will be seen as horrific. Only the real die hards will continue to support them and I think that group is thinning rapidly. You don't cover up abusing children and keep your reputation intact.
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Post by openingact34 on May 13, 2023 16:05:24 GMT -5
Hmmm…and just like that, transparency has been removed and replaced with secrecy. That’s ok, we seem to find out plenty! There are reasons to believe that Jennifer and possibly Kenion have done nothing to deserve their names being included in the list of sexual abusers and sexually immoral ministers. That they were removed from the ministry for reasons unrelated to WINGS’ focus. WINGS admins have redacted their names until it’s clarified why they were asked to step down. In Jennifer’s case, there is very strong possibility that she was removed from the ministry for doctrinal differences (preaching grace), which was reportedly the reason she was sent to Texas from her previous field. Also, a comment has been posted on WINGS website that she was in fact dismissed for speaking out AGAINST covering up SA. Perhaps we should give Lyle the benefit of the doubt There does seem to be a significant correlation between predators and liberal workers who preach grace. Cherie's book credits Leslie White as bring the overseer who pioneered the participation if divorced and remarried people. I believe Ira Hobbs was similarly liberal.
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Post by BobWilliston on May 13, 2023 21:14:24 GMT -5
If true, that's terrible... It pretty much defeats (contradicts) what this whole mess is about.
Defending the abused is an easy way to get rid of someone because it "rocks the boat".
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Post by mdm on May 14, 2023 0:40:02 GMT -5
A week or two ago a sister worker was removed from the ministry in MN for asking that the ministry deal with CSA abusers. I will share more when I get more information.
The assertion that Jennifer Brown was removed from the work for being "in support of CSA victims" is now even more believable.
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Post by Dan on May 14, 2023 1:07:10 GMT -5
A week or two ago a sister worker was removed from the ministry in MN for asking that the ministry deal with CSA abusers. I will share more when I get more information. The assertion that Jennifer Brown was removed from the work for being "in support of CSA victims" is now even more believable.
I suspect there's more to it than we are being told? Its par for the course that the hierarchy is short on details, that's part of what frustrates me. Maybe by "in support of CSA victims", meant that she was willing to testify against a brother Worker, and turning on a brother would be a big no no.
If a Worker is expelled, I think the reason ought to include specifics. Abuse could just be a verbal infraction, so some details without violating an individuals privacy would help dissolve the cloak of secrecy.
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Post by snow on May 14, 2023 12:07:43 GMT -5
A week or two ago a sister worker was removed from the ministry in MN for asking that the ministry deal with CSA abusers. I will share more when I get more information. The assertion that Jennifer Brown was removed from the work for being "in support of CSA victims" is now even more believable. On the wings page it does say that she was removed because of her support of CSA victims/survivors. It was worded like this: Wings has it on good authority that Jennifer Brown was put out of the work for standing up for what is right.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 14, 2023 12:16:38 GMT -5
If true, that's terrible... It pretty much defeats (contradicts) what this whole mess is about.
Defending the abused is an easy way to get rid of someone because it "rocks the boat". Did you expect anything else. The public hand wringing of the big bananas is nothing but smoke and mirrors.
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Post by mdm on May 14, 2023 16:16:36 GMT -5
A week or two ago a sister worker was removed from the ministry in MN for asking that the ministry deal with CSA abusers. I will share more when I get more information. The assertion that Jennifer Brown was removed from the work for being "in support of CSA victims" is now even more believable. On the wings page it does say that she was removed because of her support of CSA victims/survivors. It was worded like this: Wings has it on good authority that Jennifer Brown was put out of the work for standing up for what is right. Ok thanks! So that means that they have received new information and edited their post.
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Post by mrdobalina on May 14, 2023 16:30:50 GMT -5
A week or two ago a sister worker was removed from the ministry in MN for asking that the ministry deal with CSA abusers. I will share more when I get more information. The assertion that Jennifer Brown was removed from the work for being "in support of CSA victims" is now even more believable. If they were a regular business employing regular folk under the laws of the land, they would be in court for this alone.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 14, 2023 17:37:35 GMT -5
A week or two ago a sister worker was removed from the ministry in MN for asking that the ministry deal with CSA abusers. I will share more when I get more information. The assertion that Jennifer Brown was removed from the work for being "in support of CSA victims" is now even more believable. If they were a regular business employing regular folk under the laws of the land, they would be in court for this alone. In NZ all employers, including trusts must have a written employment contract with their employees. As they are receiving money I believe they are not volunteers which is what Gloriavale argued. The contract must meet certain requirements laid out in the relevant law. This is going to get messy at some stage.
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Post by BobWilliston on May 14, 2023 17:50:35 GMT -5
If they were a regular business employing regular folk under the laws of the land, they would be in court for this alone. In NZ all employers, including trusts must have a written employment contract with their employees. As they are receiving money I believe they are not volunteers which is what Gloriavale argued. The contract must meet certain requirements laid out in the relevant law. This is going to get messy at some stage. The only link not made in this kind of "abuse" is that the ministry is the workers' livelihood. The evidence of this being that workers who are "fired" get "severance pay" -- sometimes more, sometimes less.
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Post by Admin on May 14, 2023 17:53:47 GMT -5
On the wings page it does say that she was removed because of her support of CSA victims/survivors. It was worded like this: Wings has it on good authority that Jennifer Brown was put out of the work for standing up for what is right. Ok thanks! So that means that they have received new information and edited their post. Or active imaginations. (getting to the real truth in this is seemingly far more complicated - and potentially more serious - than some of the simple explanations being bandied about. Ultimately, we need to hear from Jennifer herself. Meanwhile, time and grace towards Jennifer in an incredibly difficult and distressing time in her precious life)
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Post by mrdobalina on May 15, 2023 0:08:43 GMT -5
In NZ all employers, including trusts must have a written employment contract with their employees. As they are receiving money I believe they are not volunteers which is what Gloriavale argued. The contract must meet certain requirements laid out in the relevant law. This is going to get messy at some stage. The only link not made in this kind of "abuse" is that the ministry is the workers' livelihood. The evidence of this being that workers who are "fired" get "severance pay" -- sometimes more, sometimes less. Is there actual evidence of sacked workers getting paid out?
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Post by BobWilliston on May 15, 2023 1:12:55 GMT -5
The only link not made in this kind of "abuse" is that the ministry is the workers' livelihood. The evidence of this being that workers who are "fired" get "severance pay" -- sometimes more, sometimes less. Is there actual evidence of sacked workers getting paid out? I thought they all are. One person I know got $200, and another I know got $3000. A couple I know were given used cars.
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Post by mrdobalina on May 15, 2023 1:38:52 GMT -5
Is there actual evidence of sacked workers getting paid out? I thought they all are. One person I know got $200, and another I know got $3000. A couple I know were given used cars. Hardly a golden handshake then.
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