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Post by Grant on May 1, 2023 16:52:02 GMT -5
A prisoner of Christ does not mean a prisoner of man made rules. A big difference. Christ reiterated several rules, those should be followed. Along with the new commandment. I hope you're not putting the workers rules on a par to those of Jesus.
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peggysullivan
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What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
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Post by peggysullivan on May 1, 2023 17:16:30 GMT -5
The thing is: Sticking to a dress code has not so far stopped CSA/SA, all fornication, lust, or adultery. It just hasn't. I know of professing women who uphold the "godly standards" of dress according to how they were probably raised, but what comes out of their mouths and the spirit they exude is far from pure/moral. I know one who upholds certain "rules", but she has been s l u t ty in her life and didn't keep herself pure. So, these rules, they don't mean much really. In other words, things are not always are they appear to be. If her outside matched her inside she would be coming to meeting/convention in a black lace teddy.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 1, 2023 17:26:34 GMT -5
The thing is: Sticking to a dress code has not so far stopped CSA/SA, all fornication, lust, or adultery. It just hasn't. I know of professing women who uphold the "godly standards" of dress according to how they were probably raised, but what comes out of their mouths and the spirit they exude is far from pure/moral. I know one who upholds certain "rules", but she has been s l u t ty in her life and didn't keep herself pure. So, these rules, they don't mean much really. In other words, things are not always are they appear to be. If her outside matched her inside she would be coming to meeting/convention in a black lace teddy. There is plenty of people like that to some degree. I see the church as a social club. It fills some of their social needs and more importantly, because they have been sold a ticket to eternal life on this particular bus they are too frightened to get off the bus or even change buses. The drivers on this bus service lack basic driving skills. If there are no passengers, the service will become uneconomic to operate.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2023 18:10:01 GMT -5
Christ reiterated several rules, those should be followed. Along with the new commandment. I hope you're not putting the workers rules on a par to those of Jesus. If they say the same thing he did, no problems.... You might want to read 1 Cor. 7, 2 Cor. 8 and 2 Cor 10. though.
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Post by neighbour on May 1, 2023 18:17:20 GMT -5
I hope you're not putting the workers rules on a par to those of Jesus. If they say the same thing he did, no problems.... You might want to read 1 Cor. 7, 2 Cor. 8 and 2 Cor 10. though. I didn't realize Jesus wrote the epistles. Seriously though, some of those verses are the explicitly self-admitted personal opinions of Paul, and other places it's not so clear. Just have to be careful about context, that's all.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2023 18:30:38 GMT -5
If they say the same thing he did, no problems.... You might want to read 1 Cor. 7, 2 Cor. 8 and 2 Cor 10. though. I didn't realize Jesus wrote the epistles. Seriously though, some of those verses are the explicitly self-admitted personal opinions of Paul, and other places it's not so clear. Just have to be careful about context, that's all. God inspired the whole bible, but you missed my point. Paul spoke with authority and with just a TAD extra added on that people were to follow, not given by God/Christ/HS.
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Post by luke2236 on May 1, 2023 18:31:32 GMT -5
If they say the same thing he did, no problems.... You might want to read 1 Cor. 7, 2 Cor. 8 and 2 Cor 10. though. I didn't realize Jesus wrote the epistles. Seriously though, some of those verses are the explicitly self-admitted personal opinions of Paul, and other places it's not so clear. Just have to be careful about context, that's all. Also look up who Paul was responding to. Corinth was a place that would make Vegas look calm. To "corinthianize" a person meant to turn them to every lust they could imagine in every way possible. There was so much sex being thrown at people that they asked questions to Paul and Paul responded in 1 Cor 7. Contexts matters. That’s like saying women shouldn’t braid their hair because there is a verse from Paul about it. Context matters.
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Post by BobWilliston on May 2, 2023 17:11:48 GMT -5
The topic is what Lyles meeting should discuss…. You wouldn’t do anything, you wouldn’t enforce anything……. Just like you don’t ask the workers to view CSA education every two years…. You don’t ask the sister workers to wear dresses in meeting… You don’t ask the men workers to wear pants in meeting…. The head workers get together and set the unwritten rules……… Porn blockers are real tools used by adults to limit their temptation to watch pornography. Again, if that’s not enough of a temptation stopper, the person probably has a real issue and shouldn’t be in a celibate ministry. These celibate ministers stay in kids rooms The celibate ministry has is an unreported CSA problem. The celibate ministers ask for our Wi-Fi password The celibate ministers go to their room alone and get bored. The celibate minister can protect them selves from lusting to Internet porn in a kids room if they have a porn blocker. And the Head workers can ask the workers to install them. It’s the least they can do. Again no one is forcing them into the work, I’m not sure how this would be any additional burden than forcing them to wear shirts or dresses or hair up in meeting Who gets to make the password for porn blockers? And would we also know if those making the passwords are not also pedos? You know who makes the password for porn -- it's the user, not the wifi provider. You can determine if someone is a pedo if you check the history on the computer. But don't need a password to find porn -- just go to the cheap sites that work like TV, view compliments of the advertisers. If you can't control yourself, put a porn blocker on your Internet account
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Post by BobWilliston on May 2, 2023 17:14:08 GMT -5
I think the dress codes are for modesty and not put in place so brother Workers aren't tempted. If a male Worker can't control himself around a little T&A, then he's weak and his flesh is not under subjection to his spirit. If someone falls to sinful acts, blaming their surroundings or other people for their uncontrolled lust just isn't an excuse that flies. God didn't blame Bathsheba, he punished David. My bigger point was that friends and Workers alike are all accountable for what we do, putting baby monitors in bedrooms to prevent sin won't clean-up a wayward heart. Jesus never told a woman to wear a longer skirt to avoid being raped.
Females do get told that they need to be more moderate so that we don't tempt the brother workers. I was told that from a sister worker a couple of times during my teen years and I didn't even profess. I have heard from other women and girls that they too got that talk. So that's the mentality in the group when I was still around them. Other women who still attend can speak to whether or not that is still the mentality. And that advice isn't limited to the 2x2's. I know a Catholic priest who wouldn't let females with short sleeves have communion.
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Post by BobWilliston on May 2, 2023 17:15:56 GMT -5
If they don’t change the structure nothing will change. professing.proboards.com/thread/25089/2x2-business-model-exposedFound this from 2017. Really makes you think and wonder how many victims would have been prevented if the 2x2 had an accounting system that held them accountable. Maybe this would be a good topic to bring up at the meeting. “ The beauty of this business model, despite being illegal, is that if one of the 'Workers' commits a crime such as sexually assaulting a child, the victims of the crime are unable to successfully sue for damages from the Worker since the Worker himself/herself has no personal assets to seize. In a normal organization, the victims could sue the organization as well. But in 2x2ism case who do you sue since you don't even know who controls what or where the money is? Furthermore, there is no 2x2 legal entity to sue. This is the exact legal defense that a 2x2 Overseer used - that he was not a minister since there was no church that he was a minister of, and therefore how could he be held accountable. Beautiful. This is exactly how organized crime is set up. Even worse, all that hidden away money is then used by Overseers to pay for expensive lawyers to defend any 2x2 minister charged with a crime. What a racket. Or to put it in legal terms - racketeering. Thankfully in the US the Dept of Justice can use the RICO act to pierce the organizational structure. ” Do you realize how many times you posted this beautiful illegal idea?
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Post by BobWilliston on May 2, 2023 17:19:33 GMT -5
Generally the reason that men in religious organizations care about what women wear is because they are trying to blame the woman for their lustful thoughts. “If they wouldn’t do this, I wouldn’t do this.” Think about a celibate worker with no training for being celibate being in houses and seeing “todays fashions”. To me that’s what’s happening here. That’s why the thought is heavy enough on his mind to write the letter in a church without written rules. The timing of Lyle’s recent letter about CSA also instructs families to tell their children about appropriate touching and behavior that the children should have around the workers. While these are good pieces of advice for children to be able to protect themselves, it kind of feels like some of the blame is being passed again. Yeah....I thought the same thing when I read, "behavior the children should have around workers". Children have a right to just be children! Especially in their own home. A sick serious CSA offender will try to find a way to offend regardless of how the child behaves. Good grief. I think there is still a bit of denial going on here. Ironically, it doesn't matter what a child does -- the adult is legally required to act like an adult.
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Post by BobWilliston on May 2, 2023 17:20:52 GMT -5
It’s kinda like this. People in some professions deal with naked bodies all the time, yet they manage to do their jobs without being inappropriate. How do they do it? Partly, they compartmentalize their thinking and concentrate on the task they need to accomplish. Now, Drs and nurses, and nurses aides have gotten in trouble for sexual misconduct and abuse. When they do this they can lose their licenses or have them suspended and possibly lose their livelihoods. Who regulates all that? The state authority. Shouldn’t all clergy be held to the highest standards as well in conduct? The problem with the truth is they dodge it by saying they are not a church. But they are a church, aren’t they? Part of being transparent is having everything above board, imo. So if it were to be scrutinized it would hold up. Or, so it could actually BE scrutinized. The way it is now there’s too much room to hide things. You are absolutely right.
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Post by BobWilliston on May 2, 2023 17:26:57 GMT -5
Corinth was a place that would make Vegas look calm. Las Vegas is a wonderful place to live. More than 100 Mormon congregations, to begin with. And in some parts of town there is a church on every block.
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peggysullivan
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What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
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Post by peggysullivan on May 2, 2023 17:35:15 GMT -5
Corinth was a place that would make Vegas look calm. Las Vegas is a wonderful place to live. More than 100 Mormon congregations, to begin with. And in some parts of town there is a church on every block. What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. Lol!
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Post by BobWilliston on May 2, 2023 17:48:31 GMT -5
Las Vegas is a wonderful place to live. More than 100 Mormon congregations, to begin with. And in some parts of town there is a church on every block. What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. Lol!
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Post by luke2236 on May 2, 2023 17:49:53 GMT -5
Corinth was a place that would make Vegas look calm. Las Vegas is a wonderful place to live. More than 100 Mormon congregations, to begin with. And in some parts of town there is a church on every block. Thanks
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Post by luke2236 on May 2, 2023 17:53:51 GMT -5
If they don’t change the structure nothing will change. professing.proboards.com/thread/25089/2x2-business-model-exposedFound this from 2017. Really makes you think and wonder how many victims would have been prevented if the 2x2 had an accounting system that held them accountable. Maybe this would be a good topic to bring up at the meeting. “ The beauty of this business model, despite being illegal, is that if one of the 'Workers' commits a crime such as sexually assaulting a child, the victims of the crime are unable to successfully sue for damages from the Worker since the Worker himself/herself has no personal assets to seize. In a normal organization, the victims could sue the organization as well. But in 2x2ism case who do you sue since you don't even know who controls what or where the money is? Furthermore, there is no 2x2 legal entity to sue. This is the exact legal defense that a 2x2 Overseer used - that he was not a minister since there was no church that he was a minister of, and therefore how could he be held accountable. Beautiful. This is exactly how organized crime is set up. Even worse, all that hidden away money is then used by Overseers to pay for expensive lawyers to defend any 2x2 minister charged with a crime. What a racket. Or to put it in legal terms - racketeering. Thankfully in the US the Dept of Justice can use the RICO act to pierce the organizational structure. ” Do you realize how many times you posted this beautiful illegal idea? Yeah it’s kind of a big deal. It’s 2nd only to the doctrine in why SA and CSA coverup is as high as it is.
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Post by BobWilliston on May 2, 2023 18:02:33 GMT -5
Do you realize how many times you posted this beautiful illegal idea? Yeah it’s kind of a big deal. It’s 2nd only to the doctrine in why SA and CSA coverup is as high as it is. But it's illegal -- for a good reason.
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Post by luke2236 on May 2, 2023 19:26:56 GMT -5
Yeah it’s kind of a big deal. It’s 2nd only to the doctrine in why SA and CSA coverup is as high as it is. But it's illegal -- for a good reason. It’s the structure that the 2x2s are under - that’s the point. The beauty comment is sarcastic from the banned poster. It was a quote
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2023 20:20:35 GMT -5
Who gets to make the password for porn blockers? And would we also know if those making the passwords are not also pedos? You know who makes the password for porn -- it's the user, not the wifi provider. You can determine if someone is a pedo if you check the history on the computer. But don't need a password to find porn -- just go to the cheap sites that work like TV, view compliments of the advertisers. If you can't control yourself, put a porn blocker on your Internet account The last sentence still doesn't answer the question. Who gets to do that? The porn person? How would they not know the password? Someone else? Who would that be? Another porn viewer? Next door neighbor? Uh huh. One's wife/hubby? there's a conversation a hubby/wife wouldn't want to have with the wife/hubby. Maybe if there are kids you could deflect. I would guess you if it's YOU, could just run your fingers across your keyboard then save it.
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Post by Pragmatic on May 2, 2023 20:34:55 GMT -5
Blockers don't really work, in practise. They're alright in a company situation where you can prevent users on company equipment from accessing nominated sites, or categories. However in a BYOD world, employees can access the sites via their smartphones using their own data-plans, provided they don't get caught. Similarly in a family situation, the parents can control what the kids can't see, but because they probably pay for the kids phones, they can control the data plan. However as teens start to get their own casual employment and can support their own phone plans, there is less control.
With workers, I don't think such things would be effective, and while it has been broken far more than it should be, the trust model, is probably the best. However, it needs strong and educated people who will take action when things go awry.
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Post by matisse on May 2, 2023 20:40:31 GMT -5
Blockers don't really work, in practise. They're alright in a company situation where you can prevent users on company equipment from accessing nominated sites, or categories. However in a BYOD world, employees can access the sites via their smartphones using their own data-plans, provided they don't get caught. Similarly in a family situation, the parents can control what the kids can't see, but because they probably pay for the kids phones, they can control the data plan. However as teens start to get their own casual employment and can support their own phone plans, there is less control. With workers, I don't think such things would be effective, and while it has been broken far more than it should be, the trust model, is probably the best. However, it needs strong and educated people who will take action when things go awry. A testosterone blocker might do the trick.
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Post by Pragmatic on May 2, 2023 20:46:39 GMT -5
Blockers don't really work, in practise. They're alright in a company situation where you can prevent users on company equipment from accessing nominated sites, or categories. However in a BYOD world, employees can access the sites via their smartphones using their own data-plans, provided they don't get caught. Similarly in a family situation, the parents can control what the kids can't see, but because they probably pay for the kids phones, they can control the data plan. However as teens start to get their own casual employment and can support their own phone plans, there is less control. With workers, I don't think such things would be effective, and while it has been broken far more than it should be, the trust model, is probably the best. However, it needs strong and educated people who will take action when things go awry. A testosterone blocker might do the trick. In one of Rowan Atkinson's skits, he played the Devil in Hell, and invited, "All you child molesters and rapists, please form a long line behind this little guillotine!"
One of the things that doesn't work, is telling kids that "if ever you get touched in the wrong way, tell me and I'll knock him into the middle of next week." What happens is that they do not want to see anyone get physically hurt, or their father face the law because of assault. It's a balancing act to find the middle and right ground. You have to be pragmatic!
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peggysullivan
Senior Member
What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
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Post by peggysullivan on May 2, 2023 20:56:00 GMT -5
Blockers don't really work, in practise. They're alright in a company situation where you can prevent users on company equipment from accessing nominated sites, or categories. However in a BYOD world, employees can access the sites via their smartphones using their own data-plans, provided they don't get caught. Similarly in a family situation, the parents can control what the kids can't see, but because they probably pay for the kids phones, they can control the data plan. However as teens start to get their own casual employment and can support their own phone plans, there is less control. With workers, I don't think such things would be effective, and while it has been broken far more than it should be, the trust model, is probably the best. However, it needs strong and educated people who will take action when things go awry. A testosterone blocker might do the trick. One treatment they have tried for sex offenders is surgically removing the testicles.
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Post by neighbour on May 2, 2023 21:13:49 GMT -5
A testosterone blocker might do the trick. One treatment they have tried for sex offenders is surgically removing the testicles. I was going to say I was pretty sure it doesn't work, but I was wrong. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3565125/
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Post by Annan on May 3, 2023 2:46:58 GMT -5
Las Vegas is a wonderful place to live. More than 100 Mormon congregations, to begin with. And in some parts of town there is a church on every block. Reminds me of the city where I used to work. Literally a church on every street corner in some sections of town. It seemed nearly every nationality had their own version of a Catholic church. Not enough attendees these days to keep them running. They are making good use of the churches now as art museums and charity organizations. I live in a very Catholic town. What I don't understand is building Catholic churches across the street from each other. But what do I know?
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2023 15:41:18 GMT -5
A testosterone blocker might do the trick. One treatment they have tried for sex offenders is surgically removing the testicles. Not 100% effective, whacking the weewee to too short might help or not...
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Post by Pragmatic on May 3, 2023 15:43:12 GMT -5
One treatment they have tried for sex offenders is surgically removing the testicles. Not 100% effective, whacking the weewee to too short might help or not... Amputation at the neck reduces the possibility of re-offending substantially!
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