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Post by whyisitso on Mar 17, 2015 19:10:50 GMT -5
From WINGS Facebook
"Yesterday I spoke with David Leitch and he says he gives his permission for all violated victims to speak out - without fear of isolation - without fear of being silenced - without fear of being put out of the Two by Two Faith - he wants ALL victims who feel they have NOT been listened to - by any workers, brethren, families etc., or have been too afraid to speak out - they are not to NOT lodge a report to him (David Leitch) BUT TO GO DIRECTLY TO THE POLICE!!!
So I DID!!!!
IF ONLY DAVID LEITCH WOULD ANNOUNCE THIS IN EVERY MISSION AND FROM EACH CONVENTION PLATFORM - I For one feel we need to 'challenge' DAVID LEITCH as the STATE OVERSEER to SAY THIS PUBLICLY HIMSELF TO EVERYONE - not a 'one little person' as myself to have to be THE VOICE FOR ALL!!
I am NOT IN CHARGE OF THIS STATE BUT I HAVE BEEN ASKED TO SPREAD THESE WORDS FROM DAVID LEITCH!!
Says he wants all the 'muck' cleaned up!!!
So all I can say is:
YOU ALL KNOW WHO YOU ARE - PLEASE GET THE SUPPORT YOU NEED TO GET TO THE POLICE - PLEASE !!PLEASE !!!PLEASE!!! I BEG YOU!!!
THIS IS SERIOUS STUFF ABOUT CHILD PROTECTION IN ALL HOMES WITH EVERY WORKER OUT THERE!!!!
THE GLOVES ARE OFF!!! - not for revenge, but for accountability and justice!!!!!
YOUR CASE WILL BE HEARD!!!
Great Police Support is out there!!!
NO MORE ROOM FOR LIES, COVER UPS, SWEEPING UNDER THE CARPET, SILENCING, BRAINWASHING, FEAR TACTICS 'THAT YOU WILL GO TO HELL IF YOU SPEAK OUT' or 'You are all against us !!!!! Just get on with your lives!!!!'
We ALL NEED A 'VOICE' AND WE ARE ENTITLED to have a BOICE - no more intimidation, no more bullying, no more ELDERS STOOD DOWN, meetings taken out of homes just because these members wish to expose and support victims - we are not deaf, blind or stupid !!!
DAVID LEITCH INSISTS THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED IN VICTORIA - but SORRY - WE DO KNOW DIFFERENT !!!I HAVE CHALLENGED DAVID LEITCH ABOUT THIS AND HE SAID START 'NAMING' THEM - that is NOT MY JOB TO DO - YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE - He said he promises none will be 'SILENCED' or STOPPED FROM FELLOWSHIP!! So THIS IS YOUR TIME TO NOW COME FORWARD!!!!
Be ready to SPEAK OUT FROM THIS HOUR - the TRUTH MUST BE TOLD FROM THIS HOUR TO PROVE WE WILL GET 'PROPER ACTION' and NOT JUST WORDS!!!!
WHY SHOULD WE SUFFER WITH OUR HEALTH AND The WICKED and the ABHORRENT TRAUMA ON OUR BODIES, BRAINS, SLEEP PATTERNS, EMOTIONAL, PHYSICAL, MENTAL & SPIRITUAL WELLBEING ANY LONGER!!!! OR FOR ONE MORE DAY!!!"
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Post by fixit on Mar 17, 2015 19:31:32 GMT -5
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 17, 2015 20:05:51 GMT -5
I don't know why people ask the workers permission to do anything. Are the friends more afraid of the workers than the workers are afraid of the police?
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Post by spiders on Mar 17, 2015 20:17:40 GMT -5
it appears that Leitch's so called "permission" comes from a meeting with one person and we don't know the circumstances which produced this statement. If he is indeed serious about cleaning up CSA in Victoria and encouraging victims to report their abuse to the police, then he should be making a public announcement to this effect to all of the F&W. He should first of all offer an apology to all victims for what has happened to them and the way in which their abuse has been covered up by overseers and then make a commitment that this is going to change. He should be offering counselling and support services to victims who are in need of this to assist in their recovery.
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Post by whyisitso on Mar 17, 2015 20:52:04 GMT -5
it appears that Leitch's so called "permission" comes from a meeting with one person and we don't know the circumstances which produced this statement. If he is indeed serious about cleaning up CSA in Victoria and encouraging victims to report their abuse to the police, then he should be making a public announcement to this effect to all of the F&W. He should first of all offer an apology to all victims for what has happened to them and the way in which their abuse has been covered up by overseers and then make a commitment that this is going to change. He should be offering counselling and support services to victims who are in need of this to assist in their recovery. Yes, and we know this is all well in theory.... But, the workers don't seem to trust the friends enough to be HONEST with them. They're too scared to tell the friends the truth because they're trying to protect them from anything negative that relates to ANY worker, or anything to do with the meetings. To be honest about these things would be to admit that things are less than perfect and they would have to answer for it, admit failings etc etc. you can't be admitting wrong has been done when you're that high up on the pedestal right? If what's said in the OP is exactly as he said I think it's pretty poor form. It's defensive. And 'muck', oh you mean awful things that were done to children who've been to scared to speak up? Anyway, I hope word gets around to the victims and gives them that burst of courage they're going to need to report what needs to be reported. |
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Post by whyisitso on Mar 17, 2015 20:55:19 GMT -5
That's good news that David Leitch wants the muck cleaned up. It would have been better if he'd made that choice a few years ago, but better late than never. Will fired worker Steve Schultz be listened to now, and be invited back into the work? ..... I had wondered the same about Steve Schultz.... You'd have to think he'd be given that chance (if that's what HE wants) if David Leitch is serious about what he says.... |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 21:44:54 GMT -5
The Catholic Archbishop of Adelaide has been charged by NSW Police for covering up CSA. I wonder if this has changed DL's thinking.
Spiders, as well as counselling and support for victims, maybe compensation could be added to the list.
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 17, 2015 23:42:39 GMT -5
it appears that Leitch's so called "permission" comes from a meeting with one person and we don't know the circumstances which produced this statement. If he is indeed serious about cleaning up CSA in Victoria and encouraging victims to report their abuse to the police, then he should be making a public announcement to this effect to all of the F&W. He should first of all offer an apology to all victims for what has happened to them and the way in which their abuse has been covered up by overseers and then make a commitment that this is going to change. He should be offering counselling and support services to victims who are in need of this to assist in their recovery. Yes, and we know this is all well in theory.... But, the workers don't seem to trust the friends enough to be HONEST with them. They're too scared to tell the friends the truth because they're trying to protect them from anything negative that relates to ANY worker, or anything to do with the meetings. To be honest about these things would be to admit that things are less than perfect and they would have to answer for it, admit failings etc etc. you can't be admitting wrong has been done when you're that high up on the pedestal right? If what's said in the OP is exactly as he said I think it's pretty poor form. It's defensive. And 'muck', oh you mean awful things that were done to children who've been to scared to speak up? Anyway, I hope word gets around to the victims and gives them that burst of courage they're going to need to report what needs to be reported. I get the impression that a lot of overseer workers actually think that the friends will actually keep all their secrets for them. One thing I never, ever did was tell a worker that I wouldn't talk to anyone about whatever they I wanted. Then one day a worker came to me and told me he didn't want me to be telling things about the workers "any more", and I got to tell him that I never told anyone anything about any worker without first of all telling the workers first, and none of them had warned me not to talk about them. I guess I must have been their biggest pain in the butt. |
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 17, 2015 23:46:19 GMT -5
it appears that Leitch's so called "permission" comes from a meeting with one person and we don't know the circumstances which produced this statement. If he is indeed serious about cleaning up CSA in Victoria and encouraging victims to report their abuse to the police, then he should be making a public announcement to this effect to all of the F&W. He should first of all offer an apology to all victims for what has happened to them and the way in which their abuse has been covered up by overseers and then make a commitment that this is going to change. He should be offering counselling and support services to victims who are in need of this to assist in their recovery. The workers do not apologize for the decisions they make. One worker made that statement very clearly in a convention I was at. Neither are they known to go looking for people they have booted. |
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Post by bubbles on Mar 18, 2015 0:12:36 GMT -5
it appears that Leitch's so called "permission" comes from a meeting with one person and we don't know the circumstances which produced this statement. If he is indeed serious about cleaning up CSA in Victoria and encouraging victims to report their abuse to the police, then he should be making a public announcement to this effect to all of the F&W. He should first of all offer an apology to all victims for what has happened to them and the way in which their abuse has been covered up by overseers and then make a commitment that this is going to change. He should be offering counselling and support services to victims who are in need of this to assist in their recovery. The workers do not apologize for the decisions they make. One worker made that statement very clearly in a convention I was at. Neither are they known to go looking for people they have booted. Whereas Jesus left the 99. Its the care factor. |
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cooee
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Post by cooee on Mar 18, 2015 16:04:43 GMT -5
It would be a good thing if we could accept that David Leitch had indeed changed his attitude and that he really meant what he is now reported to have said. Perhaps as Redback suggests, Leitch has concluded that he might possibly find himself in the same situation as Archbishop Wilson and so has modified his stance on dealing with Child Sexual Abuse matters.
Sadly many believe that David Leitch is untrustworthy, because to date, there has been a huge disconnect between what David Leitch says and what he actually does.
He has a propensity to tell people what he considers they will want to hear; what he believes will placate them. We do not have a "context" available within which we can evaluate what Leitch is reported to have said.
In the past, David Leitch has assured people he would act, but subsequently failed to do so.
David Leitch is a person who has displayed how careless he can be in his handling of the truth. An example of this is the raft of false and misleading answers he gave to Melbourne AGE newspaper journalist Chris Johnson when being interviewed by him in relation to Chris Chandler. Leitch complained that he had been misquoted by Chris Johnson, but significantly, did not seek a retraction / apology from the newspaper.
David Leitch is the person who removed (sacked) Stephen Schulz from the ministry, precisely for the reason that he had brought to Leitch’s notice reports given to him of instances of abuse and inappropriate behaviours.
David Leitch is the person who has consistently given comfort and support to perpetrators whilst vilifying and marginalizing victims, their families and supporters. He sat in court in support of Ernie Barry and listened impassively while an expert witness gave the Magistrate an assessment of Barry, which Leitch knew to be untrue.
As the poster rightly asserts, David Leitch should get his message out to all the members of the church directly, and not rely on a surrogate or the grapevine, to discharge a responsibility that is his alone.
Apparently Leitch wants the “muck” cleaned up?
The optimistic among us might think that by “muck” Leitch means the criminal and immoral behaviours of some ministers on his staff. However it is a better fit with Leitch’s attitudes and actions to date to believe that by “muck”, Leitch means the reports of abuse and the tearful cries of hurting and damaged people for whom he had a clear, but in my opinion largely undischarged, duty of care.
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Post by magpie on Mar 18, 2015 16:23:21 GMT -5
HI REDBACK---yes those charges go back to 1970's--interesting. LEITCH sat in court with Ernie Barry knowing Police "knew" of 12 0ther victims that would not sign statements in FEAR of worker & friendlies reprocussions---How do we think Det's such as Leigh Lambert is feeling about Leitch and his secret sect.. Be a lot of dry cleaning amongst this lot at the moment??? Dont forget I owe you a cup of coffee.
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Post by snow on Mar 18, 2015 16:54:04 GMT -5
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Post by spiders on Mar 18, 2015 18:05:39 GMT -5
Well said cooee. If Leitch is so keen to clean up the "muck" in Victoria then he should be showing some leadership and report to the police the known perpetrators within the ministry, otherwise he might find himself in the same position as Archbishop Wilson. He should also be apologising to Steve Schulz and reinstating him in the ministry. However all this is unlikely to happen as Leitch is not known for being proactive, rather he is reactive with the primary focus being on protection of the reputation of the ministry and the 2x2 church.
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Post by magpie on Mar 18, 2015 21:38:49 GMT -5
Dear Whyisitso .. Did you take advise from wiser people than me? And have a witness with you? Next time you hear your question back you wont recognise it? Or you will be on the watch list from asking questions,and that over time grows YOU ARE A TROUBLE MAKER...If not it will be the first time for over 100 years a questioner has survived the bitter tonngues.. Ring Sgt Leigh Lambert at Warrigul Police and say you have heard that he was upset by the ministries mind control of victims?.. MMMM DAVID LEITCH WAS RIGHT BEHIND THAT?  Why the change---no change you heard what he thought would pacify you and your question. The truthfull answer would have upset you? Chat to Leigh,lovely man. |
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Post by whyisitso on Mar 18, 2015 22:32:06 GMT -5
Dear Whyisitso .. Did you take advise from wiser people than me? And have a witness with you? Next time you hear your question back you wont recognise it? Or you will be on the watch list from asking questions,and that over time grows YOU ARE A TROUBLE MAKER...If not it will be the first time for over 100 years a questioner has survived the bitter tonngues.. Ring Sgt Leigh Lambert at Warrigul Police and say you have heard that he was upset by the ministries mind control of victims?.. MMMM DAVID LEITCH WAS RIGHT BEHIND THAT? Why the change---no change you heard what he thought would pacify you and your question. The truthfull answer would have upset you? Chat to Leigh,lovely man. Hi Magpie It was somebody else who spoke to DL. I have just posted it here from the Wings Facebook page FYI If I personally knew of any cases of CSA, trust me, I wouldn't need any persons permission to go to the police.... |
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Post by magpie on Mar 19, 2015 0:42:54 GMT -5
Dear Whyisitso,,Thought you,from previous posts one above a one on one approach.. But please give Leigh Lambert that call--- lovely fellow horrified by the mind control over victims decisions. See ya.
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Post by magpie on Mar 20, 2015 1:17:42 GMT -5
Patience,the chickens are comming home to roost.
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Post by Mary on Mar 20, 2015 4:24:25 GMT -5
The simple fact is that the workers will not be treated seriously regarding Child Sexual Abuse until they undertake regular safe ministry training and implement a specific policy for their church. Most churches have implemented this years ago. A significant amount of resources are available and there are a number of organisations who can undertake the training. See following link www.psu.anglican.asn.au/index.php/p2/links_general |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 5:48:37 GMT -5
it appears that Leitch's so called "permission" comes from a meeting with one person and we don't know the circumstances which produced this statement. If he is indeed serious about cleaning up CSA in Victoria and encouraging victims to report their abuse to the police, then he should be making a public announcement to this effect to all of the F&W. He should first of all offer an apology to all victims for what has happened to them and the way in which their abuse has been covered up by overseers and then make a commitment that this is going to change. He should be offering counselling and support services to victims who are in need of this to assist in their recovery. The workers do not apologize for the decisions they make. One worker made that statement very clearly in a convention I was at. Neither are they known to go looking for people they have booted. I have never heard these things directly from any worker, I recall speaking to an elderly gentleman in the fellowship not so long ago about a particular worker who had died fairly recently, and the old gentleman told me that he was not very trusting of the deceased worker because he had heard him say that he never ever apologised for anything even if he was wrong. |
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Post by magpie on Mar 23, 2015 17:23:54 GMT -5
We will all stand as one? As ISIS and others push SHARIA LAW, we all who have a christian faith,as non sharia muslams will have to stand together,forget denominationalism EXCLUSIVISM,theological divides,colour and race. In the eyes of SHARIA God ALLAH wants a perfect world and it must be cl;eansed of ALL infidels---THAT IS YOU AND ME. The beheaded Coptis Christians were killid because the followed jesus. A wedding at our church recently had 200 guests mostely from intermingled youth and young adult groups
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 23, 2015 21:13:32 GMT -5
There are some workers who have written letters of apology.... Willis Propp apologized for his Alberta Incorp. and Ira H. wrote a letter to Jean asking her to forgive his sexual molestation against her. It heals wounds, scars, and receiving a clear conscience in return when we confess our sins and ask forgiveness toward the person we have wronged. I know of workers and the friends who looked up and keep in touch with the exes. Some exes do NOT want to see or hear from the workers or the friends ever again. Oh yes, they'll all apologize when they're faced with legal problems, or if they're squeezed for an apology. The only apology I ever got from a worker came about because I told her in writing that she had to apologize for what she had said about my wife, and I mentioned that she had also stated that her companion agreed with her at the time. I didn't believe her companion agreed with her, so I indicated that I was sending a carbon copy to her companion so they could fight it out between them. It took a year for the answer, but it came. Taught her to suggest my wife was a pervert.  |
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 23, 2015 21:16:56 GMT -5
We will all stand as one? As ISIS and others push SHARIA LAW, we all who have a christian faith,as non sharia muslams will have to stand together,forget denominationalism EXCLUSIVISM,theological divides,colour and race. In the eyes of SHARIA God ALLAH wants a perfect world and it must be cl;eansed of ALL infidels---THAT IS YOU AND ME. The beheaded Coptis Christians were killid because the followed jesus. A wedding at our church recently had 200 guests mostely from intermingled youth and young adult groups What does Sharia law have to do with reporting CSA? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2015 12:28:50 GMT -5
Jerome Frandle and Bill Denk felt that they weren't mandatory reporters and did the right thing handling the Briggs incident involving a minor. JF through his attorney argued that the workers aren't ministers. David Leitch told a newspaper in Oz that the fellowship isn't an organization. As long as senior workers employ such tricks, we can't expect much change in the reporting of CSA.
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Post by magpie on Mar 24, 2015 16:07:32 GMT -5
HI BOB, I did not make it clear why a Sharia mention.. "Mary" mentioned the horrible attitude of 2x2ism that it is wrong that churches (Christians)interact The day is comming when that attitude will isolate exclusives further away from Gods family. Christ wont return to a devided Bride or an amputee Bride.
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Post by rational on Mar 25, 2015 9:16:47 GMT -5
The notion that one particular Christian church thinks that they have the only way to salvation versus another church is so untrue I simply smile when I hear it. Folk in meetings like to believe that it might be the case because I think it makes their own exclusivity more palatable. That might depend on the Protestant church you attend. A Pew survey in 2008 found that 49% of the members of white Evangelical Protestant believed that their church was the only way to salvation. Among white Mainstream Protestant churches 13% believed they were the only route to salvation. For black Protestant churches 45% believed their church was the only way to salvation. Your belief in the openness of other christian churches is simply not supported by collected data. I simply smile when I read it. And then compose a post. |
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Post by magpie on Mar 25, 2015 16:50:04 GMT -5
Dear Ol' Rationale... Forget statistics--under Sharia Law you and I must be eliminated to make way for Allah's perfect world. We in the West have it easy at the moment?Try living in Yemen at the moment,or Sudan.Statistics showed that 2x2s are on the top 10 list as theological ignorants.But dont worry no one has heard of them? The Saudi version of Q'aran is the most represive,other translations/language moderate to Saudi's,ISIS use the Saudi's.So moderate Muslams must also be eliminated for Allah's perfect world. .
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Post by magpie on Mar 25, 2015 16:50:49 GMT -5
Dear Ol' Rationale... Forget statistics--under Sharia Law you and I must be eliminated to make way for Allah's perfect world. We in the West have it easy at the moment?Try living in Yemen at the moment,or Sudan.Statistics showed that 2x2s are on the top 10 list as theological ignorants.But dont worry no one has heard of them? The Saudi version of Q'aran is the most represive,other translations/language moderate to Saudi's,ISIS use the Saudi's.So moderate Muslams must also be eliminated for Allah's perfect world. .
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Why the change---no change you heard what he thought would pacify you and your question. The truthfull answer would have upset you? Chat to Leigh,lovely man.
