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Post by fixit on Mar 30, 2015 12:12:25 GMT -5
Have you considered Oneness Pentecostal, Jehovah's Witness, or Seventh-day Adventist Church members? Rational, you know they aren't considered 'real' Christians. Anyone that doesn't believe in the Trinity is not a 'real' Christian. They are just dangerous cults in the eyes of those who worship the Trinity doctrine. And they don't recognize other religions as being right either. Unless you believe the narrow criteria of the Trinity, you are not saved. So Ross is right. Real Christians would never say which denomination was right as long as they believed in the Trinity. At least that's what I have figured out by all the trinity conversations that have happened here. Which is the most 'dangerous' in terms of religious killings? Might it be the 'real Christians'? |
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Post by snow on Mar 30, 2015 13:42:10 GMT -5
Rational, you know they aren't considered 'real' Christians. Anyone that doesn't believe in the Trinity is not a 'real' Christian. They are just dangerous cults in the eyes of those who worship the Trinity doctrine. And they don't recognize other religions as being right either. Unless you believe the narrow criteria of the Trinity, you are not saved. So Ross is right. Real Christians would never say which denomination was right as long as they believed in the Trinity. At least that's what I have figured out by all the trinity conversations that have happened here. Which is the most 'dangerous' in terms of religious killings? Might it be the 'real Christians'? Anyone that claims a certain doctrine leads them closer to God and saves them seems a tad naive to me. It's got nothing to do with religion, it's got to do with a personal relationship with God and anyone can do that. The only reason why people should form groups/churches is to just be able to have a fellowship with like minded people. It certainly isn't necessary for a relationship with God and your church or religion doesn't do anything for you. I think all the middle men should be got rid of. Priests, pastors, popes, workers, gurus etc. They just muddy the waters and they are entirely not necessary in the grand scheme of things. They however, like to think they are important and that's why so many religious leaders make the claim that it's through them, their guidance or message that one is saved. |
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 30, 2015 21:25:43 GMT -5
Ah, but, Ross Bowden, I DID check the facts! I went to the Pew surveys myself!  That is why I could also smile! 
You need to check it again. The question in the Pews survey, which is quite different from what was originally put forward, reads as follows: "My religion is the one, true faith leading to eternal life OR "Many religions can lead to eternal life" The religions (not denominations) covered include: Christianity - Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox Jehovah's Witness Mormon Jewish Muslim Hindu Buddhist Other faiths Therefore, it is simply erroneous to conclude from the answers to this question that the majority of Christians in their particular Christian denomination are exclusive, based on the results.
28 Mar 2015 at 07:22 Ross Bowden said:
Mormons would say they are the one true church and Catholics may also answer in the affirmative but it would be highly unusual for a Protestant to answer in the affirmative."The question was:
"what denominations would claim the belief that they are the is the one true church. "
You stated the "it would be highly unusual for a Protestant to answer in the affirmative."As for the survey; you left off half of the survey!
U.S. Religious Traditions: Beliefs; "My religion is the one, true faith leading to eternal life ."
Protestant churches
National Total: 24%
Evangelical Churches: 36%
Mainline Churches: 12%
Historically Black Churches 34%
You rather conveniently  left off the top half of the survey that shows that Protestant churches do indeed believe that their "religion is the one, true faith leading to eternal life!" 
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Post by rational on Mar 30, 2015 23:05:56 GMT -5
Have you considered Oneness Pentecostal, Jehovah's Witness, or Seventh-day Adventist Church members? Rational, you know they aren't considered 'real' Christians. Anyone that doesn't believe in the Trinity is not a 'real' Christian. They are just dangerous cults in the eyes of those who worship the Trinity doctrine. And they don't recognize other religions as being right either. Unless you believe the narrow criteria of the Trinity, you are not saved. So Ross is right. Real Christians would never say which denomination was right as long as they believed in the Trinity. At least that's what I have figured out by all the trinity conversations that have happened here. The SDA church and the Mormons believe in the trinity. But is their trinity acceptable to the other trinity believers? Who knows?!? When people begin to determine that groups who consider themselves to be christians are not 'real' christians it usually means their argument was too narrow to be valid. |
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Post by magpie on Mar 31, 2015 6:28:21 GMT -5
Thanks Ross,they look through the glass darkly .. Rationale look at the recent new TMB posting headed Christian Conventions Of Victoria.. What does that DENOMINATION TEACH ABOUT THE TRIUNE of GOD??
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Post by rational on Mar 31, 2015 10:31:54 GMT -5
As stated before there's a major difference between a religion and a church. Yes there is but in the minds of many people if you were to ask what their religion was they would say, for example, Catholic or Baptist. I think this is only obvious to you since the people who conducted the survey indicated that the word religion was not defines during the interview. The point is that there is no way to know whether the people were responding the religion or the denomination to which they belong.No, it is not. That is why you find in the literature passages like: Religious bodies are frequently called denominations, which is not incorrect, but can be less precise because the word "denomination" is often used to refer to an entire denominational family, whereas usage of the term "religious body" is fairly standard. or in this instruction for filling out forms: DON’T: Assume a certain religion isn’t listed if you don’t see it immediately, it may be found as a “denomination” under Christianity or Other, for instance.or this plain question: Why do seemingly intelligent people confuse religion with denominationSo, Ross.Bowden, I don't think these terms are as universally clear to people as you believe. But it would be a valid assumption that there was the same level of confusion regarding the terms with all people surveyed so the percentages presented would still be relevant. |
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Post by rational on Mar 31, 2015 10:53:29 GMT -5
Have you considered Oneness Pentecostal, Jehovah's Witness, or Seventh-day Adventist Church members? Yes - Oneness Pentecostal and JW's do not subscribe to the Christian doctrine of who God is. Are you saying they are not christian? They seem to think they are. But some would claim that they actually are teaching tritheism. |
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Post by rational on Mar 31, 2015 11:35:25 GMT -5
What does that DENOMINATION TEACH ABOUT THE TRIUNE of GOD?? I am not a member of that group, do not believe in god, and see the concept of the trinity as an interesting lesson of what can be done to explain ideas considered to be inerrant that contradict. From what I have read there seems to be a number of ideas/theories/beliefs. What is taught depends who is teaching. |
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Post by snow on Mar 31, 2015 11:44:39 GMT -5
For some reason the concept of the trinity always reminds me of Cerberus. One body, three heads.
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Post by fixit on Mar 31, 2015 13:25:22 GMT -5
Another thread being demolished by a trinity debate?
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Post by rational on Mar 31, 2015 19:34:31 GMT -5
Rat, with respect you were the one who made the original assertion as follows: "A Pew survey in 2008 found that 49% of the members of white Evangelical Protestant believed that their church was the only way to salvation. Among white Mainstream Protestant churches 13% believed they were the only route to salvation. For black Protestant churches 45% believed their church was the only way to salvation. Your belief in the openness of other christian churches is simply not supported by collected data. I simply smile when I read it. And then compose a post." And I believe it is true. There will be a certain percentage of the people in the survey who will confuse denomination with religion. Unless you have some data to show why it would not be an even distribution the percentage should remain constant. There is no doubt there is some confusion. This was discussed on the Pew site. But they felt confident enough to allow the results to stand. The results are available for downloading at their site. There is no additional information beyond their statement regarding what was asked. It doesn't really matter. When groups that consider themselves to be christian state that they are exclusive your response was to declare them not sharing all the beliefs you require for a group to be considered christian so they were therefore not exclusive protestant/christian groups. |
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 31, 2015 19:58:11 GMT -5
As stated before there's a major difference between a religion and a church. If a evangelical protestant was asked whether their religion was the one truth faith, then obviously they would answer yes, meaning Christianity. It's pretty clear.
Why would the poll even ask the question in that manner in the first place?
They were NOT responding to a question between Christianity and any of the other of the worlds religions.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2015 13:13:54 GMT -5
Workers have friends have been criticized, ostracized etc. for speaking out against the CSA scourge in the Kingdom. Yes well into the 2000s. I feel sorry for anyone who feels they must beg permission from David Leitch in order to report CSA to the law!!!!!!
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 3, 2015 19:33:47 GMT -5
If It were just a matter of difference between whether their religion/church was Christian compared to another religion/church, why would there be such a difference between Mainline Churches 12% and the Evangelical Churches 36%?
Why would the poll even ask the question in that manner in the first place?
They were NOT responding to a question between Christianity and any of the other of the worlds religions.
I understand from many of your posts why you make such a categoric statement but for a person who normally bases everything on facts/evidence etc, it's surprising that you do. I would have thought it obvious that evangelical churches would be more conclusive and passionate about Christianity being he only true faith/religion compared to those in mainline churches.
Either you or I am do not understanding what is presented from the Pew poll.
What the poll seems to me to present it that because Evangelical churches are much more sure that their individual church's position is the right one, that therefore they are more apt to believe that their particular church is "the one true faith leading to eternal life."
Otherwise they wouldn't be evangelizing.
While individual main-line Christian churches are more accepting of other Christian churches and therefore more accepting that their individual church may NOT be "the ONLY true faith leading to eternal life."
I wonder if we could actually contact the Pew Research Center to resolve the problem?
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Post by rational on Apr 4, 2015 18:11:01 GMT -5
Yes, agree we should try and contact them. I'm sure they could shed some light on it and tighten the question for future research so there is less ambiguity. This point was addressed in the narrative of the presented survey. |
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left off the top half of the survey that shows that Protestant churches do indeed believe that their "religion is the one, true faith leading to eternal life!" 
