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Post by rational on Mar 25, 2015 16:56:26 GMT -5
Dear Ol' Rationale... Forget statistics--under Sharia Law you and I must be eliminated to make way for Allah's perfect world. We in the West have it easy at the moment?Try living in Yemen at the moment,or Sudan.Statistics showed that 2x2s are on the top 10 list as theological ignorants.But dont worry no one has heard of them? The Saudi version of Q'aran is the most represive,other translations/language moderate to Saudi's,ISIS use the Saudi's.So moderate Muslams must also be eliminated for Allah's perfect world. . I have no idea what you are talking about. |
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 25, 2015 17:17:59 GMT -5
The notion that one particular Christian church thinks that they have the only way to salvation versus another church is so untrue I simply smile when I hear it. Folk in meetings like to believe that it might be the case because I think it makes their own exclusivity more palatable. That might depend on the Protestant church you attend. A Pew survey in 2008 found that 49% of the members of white Evangelical Protestant believed that their church was the only way to salvation. Among white Mainstream Protestant churches 13% believed they were the only route to salvation. For black Protestant churches 45% believed their church was the only way to salvation. Your belief in the openness of other christian churches is simply not supported by collected data. I simply smile when I read it. And then compose a post.  |
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 25, 2015 17:29:18 GMT -5
The simple fact is that the workers will not be treated seriously regarding Child Sexual Abuse until they undertake regular safe ministry training and implement a specific policy for their church.Most churches have implemented this years ago. A significant amount of resources are available and there are a number of organisations who can undertake the training. See following link www.psu.anglican.asn.au/index.php/p2/links_general
They are only beginning to do so recently & then only because of the spotlight on CSA.
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Post by magpie on Mar 25, 2015 20:02:44 GMT -5
Dear Ol' Rationale, Sorry if you live in a remote area not serviced by print or electronic media,I would understand your lack of keeping up on current affairs, current world persecution and slaughter of christians.. 2x2s majored on signs of the 2nd comming even founder Irvine set a date for 1914,but forgot to post Jesus invitation. So from founding Irvinism followers are still sitting on their butts waiting for Jesus to come back and fix everything up.As a worker said to us once nothing will happen till Jesus return,it will just get worse.. Well getting worse it is? People are having their heads chopped off at the moment,because of their beliefs-they are judged fit for hell. But 2x2s cover up csa crimes (one still hidden in Sth America?)and those who challenge these facts,teachings or their missing theological knowledge are sent to the same hell by "putt'n 'em out'a fellaship". So is 2x2s connected to ISIS "same hell". I had a cousin put out of meetings cause he failed in business. Well he did not have his head chopped but was condemned to that same "Hell".People used to say he has left the truth,another lie, he was kicked out,over a business failure.
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Post by magpie on Mar 25, 2015 20:12:55 GMT -5
Me again Rationale,,,Look up on your WEB,"christian view of isis". One frightening mess,and it has just started. Regards Magpie
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Post by mdm on Mar 25, 2015 22:05:58 GMT -5
The simple fact is that the workers will not be treated seriously regarding Child Sexual Abuse until they undertake regular safe ministry training and implement a specific policy for their church.Most churches have implemented this years ago. A significant amount of resources are available and there are a number of organisations who can undertake the training. See following link www.psu.anglican.asn.au/index.php/p2/links_general
They are only beginning to do so recently & then only because of the spotlight on CSA.
I don't know about most churches, but the particular congregation we attend has had a child protection policy since the '70s. "Spotlight on CSA" can mean couple of things. If the spotlight means that churches were made aware of issues and of the need for child protection policy, then there is nothing negative about it - you can't have a policy about something if you are not aware of the need for it. On the other hand, if "spotlight" means that churches were made aware of legal consequences of not implementing a policy, then the result is still positive, but the motives for implementing a policy are less than admirable. |
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Post by rational on Mar 25, 2015 22:56:48 GMT -5
Dear Ol' Rationale, Sorry if you live in a remote area not serviced by print or electronic media,I would understand your lack of keeping up on current affairs, current world persecution and slaughter of christians. Christians slaughtering and being slaughtered. As long as you have groups worshiping enties who cannot tolerate competition there will be conflict.Haven't about 1/3 of the earths population been waiting for Jesus for the past 2,000 years? So far they have had the same success as Vladimir and Estragon, waiting endlessly for Godot.Actually, it is getting better.Just a different group in the news now. I didn't see you speaking out against the christian terrorists.If you believe people who abuse or cover up abuse of children can influence your salvation I think it is time to re-evaluate your beliefs. Beats me, it is a theist idea.I know nothing about this situation but I would be willing to bet you have not posted the whole story and there are people who view the situation very differently. |
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 26, 2015 0:39:05 GMT -5
Most churches DID NOT implement ministry training years ago!
They are only beginning to do so recently & then only because of the spotlight on CSA.
I don't know about most churches, but the particular congregation we attend has had a child protection policy since the '70s. "Spotlight on CSA" can mean couple of things. If the spotlight means that churches were made aware of issues and of the need for child protection policy, then there is nothing negative about it - you can't have a policy about something if you are not aware of the need for it. On the other hand, if "spotlight" means that churches were made aware of legal consequences of not implementing a policy, then the result is still positive, but the motives for implementing a policy are less than admirable.
I would say that if your particular congregation had a child protection policy since the '70's., -that you are very fortunate.
Many churches still denied having any problems at that time. (and of course some still do)
I belong to an organization that since the '70's kept an eye on clergy CSA. They posted a long list of crimes in every one of their newsletters.
It was close print & covered usually at least two pages, -even back then.
Did the general public pay any attention to them?
Not much.
Most people ignored them because they were umbrella group for people who were agnostic & atheists.
So, -what did they know?
They were considered to be just finding fault with religion.
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Post by mdm on Mar 26, 2015 8:46:19 GMT -5
I don't know about most churches, but the particular congregation we attend has had a child protection policy since the '70s. "Spotlight on CSA" can mean couple of things. If the spotlight means that churches were made aware of issues and of the need for child protection policy, then there is nothing negative about it - you can't have a policy about something if you are not aware of the need for it. On the other hand, if "spotlight" means that churches were made aware of legal consequences of not implementing a policy, then the result is still positive, but the motives for implementing a policy are less than admirable.
I would say that if your particular congregation had a child protection policy since the '70's., -that you are very fortunate.
Many churches still denied having any problems at that time. (and of course some still do)
I belong to an organization that since the '70's kept an eye on clergy CSA. They posted a long list of crimes in every one of their newsletters.
It was close print & covered usually at least two pages, -even back then.
Did the general public pay any attention to them?
Not much.
Most people ignored them because they were umbrella group for people who were agnostic & atheists.
So, -what did they know?
They were considered to be just finding fault with religion.
No, you didn't say it was negative, I was just making a comment. To me, as a church-going person, it would be important to know what motivated my church leaders to implement (or not) child safety guidelines. |
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 26, 2015 23:22:27 GMT -5
I don't think that I claimed that it was negative,
I would say that if your particular congregation had a child protection policy since the '70's., -that you are very fortunate.
Many churches still denied having any problems at that time. (and of course some still do)
I belong to an organization that since the '70's kept an eye on clergy CSA. They posted a long list of crimes in every one of their newsletters.
It was close print & covered usually at least two pages, -even back then.
Did the general public pay any attention to them?
Not much.
Most people ignored them because they were umbrella group for people who were agnostic & atheists.
So, -what did they know?
They were considered to be just finding fault with religion.
No, you didn't say it was negative, I was just making a comment. To me, as a church-going person, it would be important to know what motivated my church leaders to implement (or not) child safety guidelines.
It is important to me as well, simply as a concerned person who is a Humanist.
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Post by magpie on Mar 27, 2015 7:28:33 GMT -5
You call yourself "rational?", Christian terrorists? You mean several USA States still have capital punishment? You are or seem SCARED of delving into the current situation that will have terrible profetic outcomes. "YOU" obviously have not studied, such sites as,Religious Liberty Prayer Bulletin,,,,,ISIS on christians,,,,christians views of ISIS. How can you compare anything in the current world unrest than that? Look at "christians on ISIS" and see the beheaded little girl.CSA was only part of the childrens pain before BEHEADINGS and their mums and their executed dads--you will see also genocide is happening amongst smaller christian communities----As the British and others did to the indeginous owners in settling North America,South Africa and especially Australia,and other countries. Yes in the name of God,BUT NOW IS NOW AND IT DOES NOT RING BELLS OF HOW MANY PICTURED THE PROPHECIES WOULD TRANSPIRE AND SO MANY OF US OF VARIOUS PERSUASIONS AS WE SEEK JESUS'RETURN KNOW WE WILL HAVE TO STAND TOGETHER ONE DAY___NO ROOM FOR EXCLUSIVISM OR THE BUS MAY LEAVE WITHOUT THOSE?
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Post by rational on Mar 27, 2015 8:59:42 GMT -5
You call yourself "rational?", Christian terrorists? I will assume this is a question. Yes christian terrorists. Eric Rudolph, for example carried out terrorists attacks. He was supported by the Army of God.18 states do not have capital punishment. But the list is growing - slowly.Sure I have looked into these sites although I am not as fixated on them as you are.I guess I can compare because when a terrorist, a terrorist of any belief, kills a person they are dead. The method is a detail that you can choose to focus on or you can look at the larger picture of groups that will step way outside the bonds of morality in the name of their 'god'.I will leave the gruesome photos to you. That shock value is, after all, why the terrorists publish them.Exactly - once you believe your god is behind you it frees you up to do whatever you want in the name of religion. Fortunately, the vast majority of people are decent human beings. It is up to you whether you wish to focus on the murderous religious fringe groups or on the rest of the people.I am not sure what this all means but it seems you are saying the christian terrorism of the past was back then so it can be overlooked (Because it was in the name of god?). It also seems that you feel that you and others who are waiting and seeking Jesus' return is going to fulfill or will will have fulfilled some prophecy or another. You say there is no room for exclusivity but I gather that the onlu people who are going to be on the bus are christians yet sadly you do not see that as exclusivity. When a muslim kills a bunch of people you jump on the band wagon and call it terrorism. Why is it not terrorism when a christian kills a bunch of people? I am not sure what brought this on but you are right, I do not spend my time looking at the self-publication of the acts of any terrorist group. Knowing people are suffering and dying at the hands of terrorists is really all I need to know. |
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Post by mdm on Mar 27, 2015 10:52:10 GMT -5
No, you didn't say it was negative, I was just making a comment. To me, as a church-going person, it would be important to know what motivated my church leaders to implement (or not) child safety guidelines.
It is important to me as well, simply as a concerned person who is a Humanist.
Yes, it should be important to anyone. But one has more influence on their immediate community than on the rest of the world and one can chose which organizations they belong to - that's why I said that what happens in churches is important to me as a church-going person. Along the same lines, I am not "lucky" that the church I attend has had child protection guidelines since the '70's - I didn't start attending it by accident, but out of choice; it was an informed and thought-out decision You said earlier: I belong to an organization that since the '70's kept an eye on clergy CSA.Did you belong to it while you were still professing? |
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Post by fixit on Mar 27, 2015 13:50:49 GMT -5
When a muslim kills a bunch of people you jump on the band wagon and call it terrorism. Why is it not terrorism when a christian kills a bunch of people? It is. Ministers all over the Christian world should be stopped from preaching hatred and a call to arms against secular civilisation. And Christians trying to travel overseas to cut off journalist and aid-worker heads, capture young women for sexual slavery, burn prisoners of war alive, and other heinous acts in the name of Christianity should be stopped. Not to forget places of worship. Christians should be stopped from the suicide bombing of churches, synagogues, mosques, temples etc. I think the Universal Declaration of Human Rights should be...well, universal. |
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Post by rational on Mar 27, 2015 21:09:47 GMT -5
That might depend on the Protestant church you attend. A Pew survey in 2008 found that 49% of the members of white Evangelical Protestant believed that their church was the only way to salvation. Among white Mainstream Protestant churches 13% believed they were the only route to salvation. For black Protestant churches 45% believed their church was the only way to salvation. Your belief in the openness of other christian churches is simply not supported by collected data. I simply smile when I read it. And then compose a post. Happy to look at the survey if you have it... Now you have it: |
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Post by fixit on Mar 27, 2015 23:01:45 GMT -5
Happy to look at the survey if you have it... Now you have it: How would you define religion in "my religion is the one true faith"? Might the respondents think they are referring to Christianity as the one true religion? Or Evangelical Christianity? Or Protestant Christianity? |
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 27, 2015 23:19:10 GMT -5
Yes, it is about time all churches had guidelines.
It is important to me as well, simply as a concerned person who is a Humanist.
Yes, it should be important to anyone. But one has more influence on their immediate community than on the rest of the world and one can chose which organizations they belong to - that's why I said that what happens in churches is important to me as a church-going person. Along the same lines, I am not "lucky" that the church I attend has had child protection guidelines since the '70's - I didn't start attending it by accident, but out of choice; it was an informed and thought-out decision You said earlier: I belong to an organization that since the '70's kept an eye on clergy CSA.Did you belong to it while you were still professing?
They are, as I stated, a group of agnostic & atheists.
Their name is the Freedom From Religion Foundation .
I came across them not long after my exit from the 2x2's. |
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 27, 2015 23:29:12 GMT -5
How would you define religion in "my religion is the one true faith"? Might the respondents think they are referring to Christianity as the one true religion? Or Evangelical Christianity? Or Protestant Christianity?
The respondents responded as 'evangelical' or 'mainstream' Protestant.
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Post by rational on Mar 28, 2015 1:02:06 GMT -5
How would you define religion in "my religion is the one true faith"? Might the respondents think they are referring to Christianity as the one true religion? Or Evangelical Christianity? Or Protestant Christianity? It is possible that they were but that is not supported by the information Pew provided. |
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Post by rational on Mar 28, 2015 8:48:43 GMT -5
Thanks - I would expect the results as it talks about religion, not necessarily individual churches. If I was asked whether my religion (ie Christianity) was the one true religion I would say yes as well. The question is what the the people interviewed thought. In the discussion regarding the survey this very question was raised. I have found if I ask someone what religion they are the answer usually involves denomination - Catholic, Baptist, Mormon, etc. for christians and the broader religion category for non-christians. |
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Post by magpie on Mar 28, 2015 16:27:23 GMT -5
In our State (Victoria) we must be registered to work with children "Working with children check",issued by thr Dept of Justice,,covers,,teachers,sunday school,scouts,youth group,baby sitters,nannies,camp leaders,pastors,carers,etc. Dont have that dont have a job or responsability with children,.Often wonder if workers have done the test,quite a few would fail?
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Post by magpie on Mar 29, 2015 2:53:07 GMT -5
I have a working with children "card" because without it I could not take a reading 2x hour session once a week at our grandsons primery school.Workers living an unatural unbiblical celibate lifestyle left around kids,I shudder from experience as to the danger they face,some may be OK but who,the nice ones,mmmm?
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mambo
New Member
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Post by mambo on Mar 29, 2015 6:39:38 GMT -5
I have been told that there was a "session" at South Australian conventions regarding CSA in 2014. The workers here have undergone training and mandatory reporting. They have made their own "rule" that male workers are never to be in children's bedrooms - this protects the children of course but the workers too. Small steps but I do believe it is definitely improving and I feel comfortable asking what is happening and how it is being managed in 2015
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Post by magpie on Mar 29, 2015 16:43:54 GMT -5
Mambo,Does this mean that Schultz who was kicked our of the work for speaking of a sex problem has been villefied ?
Rationale,, Judaism= one religion,,Islam= one religion,,Christianity= one religion? But each has sadly broken up into different persuasions and theological bents... I was lucky at work and business,I knew we were registered as Christian Assemblies of Victoria ( Australia )so I would say I belonged to the Christian Assemblies---if workers could lie about it, I felt I should be more truthful .Stopped a lot of awkward explaining.But at 35 yrs I was freed of the worker bondage,to a wider church family.
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 30, 2015 3:38:02 GMT -5
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Post by Greg on Mar 30, 2015 3:47:00 GMT -5
I thought he was writing about himself. |
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Post by rational on Mar 30, 2015 10:15:16 GMT -5
Mormons would say they are the one true church and Catholics may also answer in the affirmative but it would be highly unusual for a Protestant to answer in the affirmative. Have you considered Oneness Pentecostal, Jehovah's Witness, or Seventh-day Adventist Church members? |
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Post by snow on Mar 30, 2015 11:09:01 GMT -5
Mormons would say they are the one true church and Catholics may also answer in the affirmative but it would be highly unusual for a Protestant to answer in the affirmative. Have you considered Oneness Pentecostal, Jehovah's Witness, or Seventh-day Adventist Church members? Rational, you know they aren't considered 'real' Christians. Anyone that doesn't believe in the Trinity is not a 'real' Christian. They are just dangerous cults in the eyes of those who worship the Trinity doctrine. And they don't recognize other religions as being right either. Unless you believe the narrow criteria of the Trinity, you are not saved. So Ross is right. Real Christians would never say which denomination was right as long as they believed in the Trinity. At least that's what I have figured out by all the trinity conversations that have happened here. |
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