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Post by emy on May 2, 2015 12:57:06 GMT -5
Lol..and just maybe I dont know my ph well enough. Strike they only give me 2 yrs to learn the features. Then they let it die so I have to purchase a new model!! I am not very good with modern technology, when folks talk to me about a tablet I immediate think about pills. Huh? I think of that pad of paper we used pencils to write on!
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Post by maryhig on May 2, 2015 13:14:04 GMT -5
I am not very good with modern technology, when folks talk to me about a tablet I immediate think about pills. Huh? I think of that pad of paper we used pencils to write on! I think of the exams we had to take in school, pre-calculator days lol proper mental a arithmetic!
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Post by Gene on May 2, 2015 20:23:35 GMT -5
I am not very good with modern technology, when folks talk to me about a tablet I immediate think about pills. Huh? I think of that pad of paper we used pencils to write on! I think of those pieces of stone on which I first chiseled out the 10 commandments.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2015 20:38:12 GMT -5
Huh? I think of that pad of paper we used pencils to write on! I think of those pieces of stone on which I first chiseled out the 10 commandments. a bit of a chiseler no less
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Post by Gene on May 2, 2015 20:53:28 GMT -5
I think of those pieces of stone on which I first chiseled out the 10 commandments. a bit of a chiseler no less Yep!
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Post by dmmichgood on May 3, 2015 1:29:26 GMT -5
a bit of a chiseler no less Yep! What did you use as a "chisel" in those days?
Were you in the iron age yet or did you still have to use a stone?
How many chisels wore out during that process?
Just a inquiring mind at work!
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Post by maryhig on May 3, 2015 1:35:25 GMT -5
Hiya again Matisse can I ask you one more thing, so do you completely believe that there is no God? Or that maybe the could be one, because in my heart I feel without proof it would be hard to say definitely no? I'm still pondering on your post, it's been on my mind. I find it hard to understand how people can know someone all their life and just turn the back on them! I can't get my head around how that's godly at all. No matter what they've done. Because God is our judge not man. In fact it's quite upsetting! I've never heard of this before I came on here! I am going to write one of the things that happened to me when I come home later. I'll be being totally honest. And you can take it as you will, and ask any questions. I would write it now but don't have time, so I'll write it later! If that's ok Hiya maryh I cannot prove anything. I feel completely comfortable, however, living my life with the working assumption that there is no personal, interactive god out there. Do you believe in the existence and power of Zeus, king of the Greek gods? At one point in time, many people did. I will look forward to reading your experience whenever you have a chance to write. Hi Matisse, I have written one of my experiences in the sister churches thread. So I don't clog up here. I hope you find it interesting!
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Post by bubbles on May 3, 2015 2:23:48 GMT -5
Huh? I think of that pad of paper we used pencils to write on! I think of the exams we had to take in school, pre-calculator days lol proper mental a arithmetic! Fingers helped a treat.
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Post by magpie on May 3, 2015 5:13:47 GMT -5
Me being one leaving school to go on the farm,I understand being put down for my inability with some of todays I.T. But as an academic lecturer said recently the ignorant are those who think they are better with their modern unreal electronic communication,dependant of others abilities and knowledge,than those who are full of lifes real experiences,that gives abilities todays modern society sadly will never know and experience the strength and knowledge it gives.The ability to use our individual brain for intelectural growth is deminishing fast,they only now think they are individuals,people who will never know how to stand on their own two feet,as they cannot exist without the new drug of dependenfy stuck in teir ear or on a mini screen. So pseudo intellects please take note we are the ones of experience you wont listen to. Over many decades . We thought the followers of the secret sect(2x2s)were the only ones who would not listen to the horrid knowledge we had by experience by the and knowledge of what the sex crime workers did to us,now it is the Geeks of I.T as well.
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Post by magpie on May 5, 2015 4:56:42 GMT -5
MMMMM? TODAY IS THE 5th of MAY?
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Post by Mary on May 5, 2015 5:31:24 GMT -5
Today is the 5/5/15
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Post by magpie on May 6, 2015 19:23:31 GMT -5
Hi Mary The days date starts in the Pacific (TONGA) Australian Eastern Standard Time allows us to joke with our buddies in California that we are always a day ahead of them. Their replies usually go along the line is they get tomorrows news before you. Regards Magpie.
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Post by magpie on May 6, 2015 19:34:36 GMT -5
You know,I remember one mum saying to another. "how could a girl like that even think of things like that or worse to say it. Just seeking attention,trying to get out of meetings,terrible. I was guilty of not saying something,as I was hiding my I felt shame,worker perpetrated,in hindsite I did nothing to help.No wonder there has been suicides and mental health sicknesses amongst 2x2 victims. Church was to be like an ark, I always felt,but we recieved protection outside of the 2x2 ark definatly not inside it.
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Post by rational on May 6, 2015 19:50:38 GMT -5
There is the arrow of time with which to contend.
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Post by rational on May 6, 2015 20:01:29 GMT -5
You know,I remember one mum saying to another. "how could a girl like that even think of things like that or worse to say it. Just seeking attention,trying to get out of meetings,terrible. I was guilty of not saying something,as I was hiding my I felt shame,worker perpetrated,in hindsite I did nothing to help.No wonder there has been suicides and mental health sicknesses amongst 2x2 victims. Church was to be like an ark, I always felt,but we recieved protection outside of the 2x2 ark definatly not inside it. The question is one of cause and effect. Are certain personality types drawn to sects like the F&W because of the all encompassing feeling members are subjected to or did the mental health issues develop because of the environment? While certain environmental stress factors can trigger problems in a person who is susceptible to mental illness it is rarely the sole cause.
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Post by fixit on May 6, 2015 20:40:21 GMT -5
You know,I remember one mum saying to another. "how could a girl like that even think of things like that or worse to say it. Just seeking attention,trying to get out of meetings,terrible. I was guilty of not saying something,as I was hiding my I felt shame,worker perpetrated,in hindsite I did nothing to help.No wonder there has been suicides and mental health sicknesses amongst 2x2 victims. Church was to be like an ark, I always felt,but we recieved protection outside of the 2x2 ark definatly not inside it. I'm sorry you had to endure all that Magpie. I hope enough victims speak out so that this evil can be eradicated, both from the F&W fellowship and from society at large. Silence plays into the hands of sexual predators and provides a haven for them to do their wicked work.
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Post by fixit on May 6, 2015 20:42:33 GMT -5
You know,I remember one mum saying to another. "how could a girl like that even think of things like that or worse to say it. Just seeking attention,trying to get out of meetings,terrible. I was guilty of not saying something,as I was hiding my I felt shame,worker perpetrated,in hindsite I did nothing to help.No wonder there has been suicides and mental health sicknesses amongst 2x2 victims. Church was to be like an ark, I always felt,but we recieved protection outside of the 2x2 ark definatly not inside it. The question is one of cause and effect. Are certain personality types drawn to sects like the F&W because of the all encompassing feeling members are subjected to or did the mental health issues develop because of the environment? While certain environmental stress factors can trigger problems in a person who is susceptible to mental illness it is rarely the sole cause. Rational, a lot of mental health problems are caused by the sexual abuse of children. I don't have time to argue this with you. You will find the data for yourself if you're interested.
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Post by SharonArnold on May 6, 2015 21:17:25 GMT -5
[The question is one of cause and effect. Are certain personality types drawn to sects like the F&W because of the all encompassing feeling members are subjected to or did the mental health issues develop because of the environment? While certain environmental stress factors can trigger problems in a person who is susceptible to mental illness it is rarely the sole cause. Sigh. This is one personality type that was not "drawn" into the F&W sect. I was born there, like many others. Not much of a choice. And it took a hell of a lot of courage and "growing up" to leave. But, in the end, Lester Burnham (American Beauty) expresses it very well: "I guess I could be pretty pissed off about what happened to me... but it's hard to stay mad, when there's so much beauty in the world. Sometimes I feel like I'm seeing it all at once, and it's too much, my heart fills up like a balloon that's about to burst... And then I remember to relax, and stop trying to hold on to it, and then it flows through me like rain and I can't feel anything but gratitude for every single moment of my stupid little life... You have no idea what I'm talking about, I'm sure. But don't worry... you will someday."
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Post by rational on May 7, 2015 0:14:24 GMT -5
The question is one of cause and effect. Are certain personality types drawn to sects like the F&W because of the all encompassing feeling members are subjected to or did the mental health issues develop because of the environment? While certain environmental stress factors can trigger problems in a person who is susceptible to mental illness it is rarely the sole cause. Rational, a lot of mental health problems are caused by the sexual abuse of children. I don't have time to argue this with you. You will find the data for yourself if you're interested. I have provided that data several times. Some mental health problems are caused by sexual abuse. Some mental health problems are caused by emotional abuse. Some mental problems are caused by neglect. Let's look back at another time when horrific things were being done to children and people panicked. In the US and eventually in Canada, there was a growing level of hysteria on this issue. The claim was that in the US there were 800,000 missing children every year. But it came to light that this included children who only ran away for less than 72 hours. And a lot of other children. So in the end the public was told that the actual number of missing children was somewhere between 50,000 - 75,000 per year. Imagine the horror. Many of them were killed. Some used in Satanic rituals. The solution - put their faces on milk cartons. Something had to be done to protect our children. Watch your children. Children are being snatched in shopping malls and their hair shaved off and colored with shoe polish so they could be taken out.People panicked. But fewer than 100 children were murdered in the US every year. A lot, but less than 50,000. No one stopped to think that 50,000 abducted children means, on average, 1,000 per state per year. That means on average 3 children per day per state. Seems like that would have made the news. 20+ missing children per week per state. You can fall into the same panic mode regarding child sexual abuse. Rind, Tromovitch, and Bauserman published a study that pointed out that actual data did not show the mental health problems to be as pervasive as the general public believes.
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Post by fixit on May 7, 2015 0:26:50 GMT -5
No one is panicking Rational.
Some folks are doing what needs to be done i.e. making the F&W's fellowship, and society at large, safer for children.
Are you OK with that?
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Post by fixit on May 7, 2015 0:30:48 GMT -5
[The question is one of cause and effect. Are certain personality types drawn to sects like the F&W because of the all encompassing feeling members are subjected to or did the mental health issues develop because of the environment? While certain environmental stress factors can trigger problems in a person who is susceptible to mental illness it is rarely the sole cause. Sigh. This is one personality type that was not "drawn" into the F&W sect. I was born there, like many others. Not much of a choice. And it took a hell of a lot of courage and "growing up" to leave. But, in the end, Lester Burnham (American Beauty) expresses it very well: "I guess I could be pretty pissed off about what happened to me... but it's hard to stay mad, when there's so much beauty in the world. Sometimes I feel like I'm seeing it all at once, and it's too much, my heart fills up like a balloon that's about to burst... And then I remember to relax, and stop trying to hold on to it, and then it flows through me like rain and I can't feel anything but gratitude for every single moment of my stupid little life... You have no idea what I'm talking about, I'm sure. But don't worry... you will someday." Yes, I had a problem with that "personality type" statement as well. It might be applicable if it wasn't a generational church. However most in the F&W's fellowship are born and raised, probably for a few generations on average.
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Post by rational on May 7, 2015 9:43:06 GMT -5
No one is panicking Rational. Yes they are. You can trace the progress: Moral Panic: Changing Concepts of the Child Molester in Modern AmericaBy Philip Jenkins From the Guardian: Child abuse: let's replace moral panic with mature reform Not when the collateral damage exceeds the actual damage. MORAL PANIC AND SEXUAL OFFENSES AGAINST CHILDREN - Anthony ThomsonPage 6 might be a good starting point if you don't want to read the whole paper. As you said - there is a lot of information out there. You just have to get around the media hype, avoid the results of the waves of moral panic, and be willing to take the criticism like most authors who tried to expose the actual facts. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_RindFor those unfamiliar: In 1997, Rind and Philip Tromovitch published a literature review of seven studies involving 8,500 participants that examined adjustment problems of victims of child sexual abuse (CSA). They concluded that the general consensus associating CSA with intense, pervasive harm and long-term maladjustment was incorrect. Author Thomas D. Oellerich called the study "politically incorrect" but "scientifically correct".The question is - should the problem be approached based on political correctness or scientific correctness? Which will, at the end of the day, provide the best outcome for the victims and potential future victims? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rind_et_al._controversy
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Post by ellie on May 7, 2015 17:09:26 GMT -5
Sigh. This is one personality type that was not "drawn" into the F&W sect. I was born there, like many others. Not much of a choice. And it took a hell of a lot of courage and "growing up" to leave. But, in the end, Lester Burnham (American Beauty) expresses it very well: "I guess I could be pretty pissed off about what happened to me... but it's hard to stay mad, when there's so much beauty in the world. Sometimes I feel like I'm seeing it all at once, and it's too much, my heart fills up like a balloon that's about to burst... And then I remember to relax, and stop trying to hold on to it, and then it flows through me like rain and I can't feel anything but gratitude for every single moment of my stupid little life... You have no idea what I'm talking about, I'm sure. But don't worry... you will someday." Yes, I had a problem with that "personality type" statement as well. It might be applicable if it wasn't a generational church. However most in the F&W's fellowship are born and raised, probably for a few generations on average. And in the original I would prefer to see the phrase personality disorders over personality types.
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Post by rational on May 7, 2015 17:29:37 GMT -5
[The question is one of cause and effect. Are certain personality types drawn to sects like the F&W because of the all encompassing feeling members are subjected to or did the mental health issues develop because of the environment? While certain environmental stress factors can trigger problems in a person who is susceptible to mental illness it is rarely the sole cause. Sigh. This is one personality type that was not "drawn" into the F&W sect. I was born there, like many others. Not much of a choice. And it took a hell of a lot of courage and "growing up" to leave. Then I guess the comment does not apply to you. There might be a reason why it took courage to leave: Spiritual Views of Life: Different Forms of Spirituality for Different Personalities.
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Post by rational on May 7, 2015 17:32:52 GMT -5
Yes, I had a problem with that "personality type" statement as well. It might be applicable if it wasn't a generational church. However most in the F&W's fellowship are born and raised, probably for a few generations on average. Would it have been better for you had I used "drawn to/remain in"? Personality types is the phrase that is used.
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Post by rational on May 7, 2015 17:38:06 GMT -5
Me too. And in the original I would prefer to see the phrase personality disorders, or similar used over personality types. I would have used personality disorder if belonging to a religious sect was considered a personality disorder. Perhaps you could explain why you think it would be a disorder to join a sect. If you want to expand on what would have to happen while the person was a member of a sect for it to become a disorder it might be an interesting discussion.
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Post by findingtruth on May 7, 2015 21:19:53 GMT -5
Sigh. This is one personality type that was not "drawn" into the F&W sect. I was born there, like many others. Not much of a choice. And it took a hell of a lot of courage and "growing up" to leave. But, in the end, Lester Burnham (American Beauty) expresses it very well: "I guess I could be pretty pissed off about what happened to me... but it's hard to stay mad, when there's so much beauty in the world. Sometimes I feel like I'm seeing it all at once, and it's too much, my heart fills up like a balloon that's about to burst... And then I remember to relax, and stop trying to hold on to it, and then it flows through me like rain and I can't feel anything but gratitude for every single moment of my stupid little life... You have no idea what I'm talking about, I'm sure. But don't worry... you will someday." Yes, I had a problem with that "personality type" statement as well. It might be applicable if it wasn't a generational church. However most in the F&W's fellowship are born and raised, probably for a few generations on average. It's possible that since I'm out of the loop so to speak I'm unaware of many individuals who have no past family connection with the F&W who have become members of the group recently. In fact, in the 35 years I was "in" I cannot recall one single person that I personally knew who had joined the fellowship and remains in today. The handful of "outsiders" I knew who joined the group are no longer associated with it. Is it possible they had no problem leaving because they lacked any family pressure to stay in? Most that I've talked with who struggled with their decision to leave OR remain in but are very unhappy fear/feared judgment and separation from their loved ones.
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Post by SharonArnold on May 7, 2015 23:36:53 GMT -5
This is somewhat interesting and makes a fair bit of sense. I don’t see the bearing of personality types in it taking courage to leave though. I am definitely the Mystical type. If I feel a kinship with others, I expect they are largely mystical types too. I always had huge problems with the Authoritarian types. Still do. These are the types that gave me the impetus to leave 2X2ism. Religion/spirituality and intellect have always seemed pretty mutually exclusive to me. Which is one of the reasons I am highly scornful of all the endless trinity debates and other convoluted reasoning that shows up when people have pretensions of having a special understanding of anything. I have admiration for the Service types, but that is definitely not me. I’m way too selfish. Other than fellow mystics, I would prefer to socialize with completely non-religious people over any of the other types. No contest.
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