Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2015 5:14:03 GMT -5
Ok here goes, I've been pondering about sin and forgiveness. It's been on my mind since all this about adultery came up. Now what I'm about to write isn't just about adultery, but sin in general. So I've been praying to God from my heart and pondering most of the day. Wondering at what is right and wrong for Gods people to do to others. Then tonight I went to the meeting. We were asked what we had been reading and someone said Luke 15 which was the prodigal son. So we read and I've seen this in it Firstly it's wrong to judge anyone! God does the judging and here's why Both those sons knew the Father, (so both belonged to God!) and the youngest knowing his father's wishes disobeyed him and walked away. And he then suffered because of this. (Like we do when we disobey.) Now as you all know the story he came back to the Father and truly repented willing to be a servant and the Father ran to him and kissed his neck and welcomed him back. As a son! ... The elder brother didn't have the heart of the father, or the spirit of the father. His friends weren't the father's friends. When there was rejoicing in the father's house, the elder brother was outside - because he chose to be outside. He may have thought he was pleasing his father because he didn't do the things his brother did, but there's more to pleasing the father than abstaining from riotous living. As you say, the younger son was welcomed back into the family because he humbled himself, repented, and returned to his father's house, leaving his life of sin behind.
|
|
|
Post by Mary on Apr 30, 2015 5:16:08 GMT -5
Felicity, I am wondering are you a worker or ever been one?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2015 5:19:06 GMT -5
Felicity, I am wondering are you a worker or ever been one? No, I'm not a worker, nor have I ever been one. Why do you ask?
|
|
|
Post by Mary on Apr 30, 2015 5:21:41 GMT -5
Just wondered. You go to meetings? Correct?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2015 5:23:14 GMT -5
Just wondered. You go to meetings? Correct? Yes, that is correct.
|
|
|
Post by Mary on Apr 30, 2015 5:26:07 GMT -5
Ok I got one out of two right. Welcome to the board.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2015 5:31:56 GMT -5
Ok I got one out of two right. Welcome to the board. Thank you. I guess it's hard to get a feel for what people are really like on a forum like this, when we can only read what is said and can't see what is lived.
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Apr 30, 2015 5:33:26 GMT -5
Ok here goes, I've been pondering about sin and forgiveness. It's been on my mind since all this about adultery came up. Now what I'm about to write isn't just about adultery, but sin in general. So I've been praying to God from my heart and pondering most of the day. Wondering at what is right and wrong for Gods people to do to others. Then tonight I went to the meeting. We were asked what we had been reading and someone said Luke 15 which was the prodigal son. So we read and I've seen this in it Firstly it's wrong to judge anyone! God does the judging and here's why Both those sons knew the Father, (so both belonged to God!) and the youngest knowing his father's wishes disobeyed him and walked away. And he then suffered because of this. (Like we do when we disobey.) Now as you all know the story he came back to the Father and truly repented willing to be a servant and the Father ran to him and kissed his neck and welcomed him back. As a son! ... The elder brother didn't have the heart of the father, or the spirit of the father. His friends weren't the father's friends. When there was rejoicing in the father's house, the elder brother was outside - because he chose to be outside. He may have thought he was pleasing his father because he didn't do the things his brother did, but there's more to pleasing the father than abstaining from riotous living. As you say, the younger son was welcomed back into the family because he humbled himself, repented, and returned to his father's house, leaving his life of sin behind. Yes, and the older brother can be like us, when we choose to turn others away and turn our backs on them and not keep or hearts open to them, because of the hardness of our hearts! God wants them back, he wants all back! Sometimes people are sorry in their hearts but they have gone to God not man. The older brother didn't hear his brothers plea from the heart, he just assumed he was still guilty. That's what our judgemental hearts are like. We don't know the hearts of others. And should never turn our backs on anyone! Also even the older brother had hope, because the Father said Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine. It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found. So he still had the father's inheritance, he just had to soften his heart, come in and welcome his brother home!
|
|
|
Post by Mary on Apr 30, 2015 5:33:53 GMT -5
Felicity,I would hope people practice what they preach.
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Apr 30, 2015 5:37:11 GMT -5
I would hope people practice what they preach. I hope I do, although I do go wrong too, but my door is open to everyone whatever they believe! You can't show God to people with a closed heart and door.
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Apr 30, 2015 5:37:47 GMT -5
Ha ha thought you meant me
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2015 5:45:00 GMT -5
Felicity,I would hope people practice what they preach. I totally agree with that! I certainly try to live what I believe, though I've "fallen often in the struggle".
|
|
|
Post by matisse on Apr 30, 2015 5:55:23 GMT -5
Got it, I'm reading posts on tapatalk and it doesn't show your name, it just shows all the posts. I went on the main TMB site instead and found it! Thanks Matisse that post has touched me I've got a question, if you don't mind, what do you mean by people "lost out, effectively dropping out of sight"? And why did you feel like an outsider? Sorry for asking I'm just trying to get my head around your post. I hope you don't mind me asking "Losing Out' is when someone stops coming to meetings and leaves the group. Once I left meetings, I became an "Outsider", except, I mostly knew the culture of meetings ("Inside") and very little about the culture of the "Outside". I was an Outsider, but I didn't "fit in" on the Outside. Does anyone know if "Losing Out" and "Outsider" are universally understood among the F&W? The language differences are interesting! Don't worry about asking, Maryh, if a term doesn't make sense!
|
|
|
Post by ellie on Apr 30, 2015 6:53:33 GMT -5
Something happened if you believed for the first 25 years of your life. Or did you just stop believing. I'm not questioning you being cheeky i'm just curious to how a person can just stop believing. If it's too painful or personal then I totally understand why you wouldn't want to say. Here is one link, maryh to something I wrote a while back about my loss of faith: Suspension of disbeliefAnd another I wrote about some of the process I went through after the loss of my faith: HealingBeautiful. Thank you so much matisse Your posts resonate on so many levels. A little bit like you I question many things. It's part of my nature too and I wonder where eventually my questions might potentially lead. So may I ask? Have you left behind all belief in a God or just the personal God of Christianity? And if the answer is that you don't believe in any version of God did this disbelief transpire at the same time or a different point in time to when you stopped believing in the personal God of Christianity?
|
|
|
Post by bubbles on Apr 30, 2015 7:42:30 GMT -5
Ok I got one out of two right. Welcome to the board. Thank you. I guess it's hard to get a feel for what people are really like on a forum like this, when we can only read what is said and can't see what is lived. Thats where the holy spirit comes in handy. You can sense the spirit of the person.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2015 8:16:11 GMT -5
I would hope people practice what they preach. I hope I do, although I do go wrong too, but my door is open to everyone whatever they believe! You can't show God to people with a closed heart and door. No one is perfect so the chances are none of us practice what we preach all the time; take Peters the beloved Apostle, for example, he denied he ever knew Jesus, even though Jesus had told him what would happen, it only dawn on him when he heard the cock crowing and remembered what Jesus had predicted. Do I practice what I preach? Honestly and unfortunately "no" not always.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2015 8:44:35 GMT -5
A quick question to all who say they practice what thy preach. Would you admit that you will stand up for Jesus come what may if you knew that if you made that admission you would immediately get your head chopped off? Would you be a martyr for the Gospel sake? Only honest answers from the heart please.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2015 9:16:10 GMT -5
A quick question to all who say they practice what thy preach. Would you admit that you will stand up for Jesus come what may if you knew that if you made that admission you would immediately get your head chopped off? Would you be a martyr for the Gospel sake? Only honest answers from the heart please. Now that's a tough question! I haven't said that I practice what I preach, but I try to. I think it would be hypocritical to point people to scriptures that we weren't willing to fit in with ourselves, accepting that we all fail at times. I'd love to think that I'd confess my beliefs even if it was going to cost me my life, but who knows? Maybe my courage would fail. Peter said he would never deny Jesus, and yet he did, though he bitterly regretted it afterwards. Sometimes the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. I'm glad that God in his mercy doesn't allow us to be tempted above what we're able to bear.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2015 9:26:22 GMT -5
I feel I have stood up for Jesus, many time in meeting, and on this board to have my head chopped off by others. Sometimes I wish it had been literally not just figuratively!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2015 10:11:44 GMT -5
A quick question to all who say they practice what thy preach. Would you admit that you will stand up for Jesus come what may if you knew that if you made that admission you would immediately get your head chopped off? Would you be a martyr for the Gospel sake? Only honest answers from the heart please. Now that's a tough question! I haven't said that I practice what I preach, but I try to. I think it would be hypocritical to point people to scriptures that we weren't willing to fit in with ourselves, accepting that we all fail at times. I'd love to think that I'd confess my beliefs even if it was going to cost me my life, but who knows? Maybe my courage would fail. Peter said he would never deny Jesus, and yet he did, though he bitterly regretted it afterwards. Sometimes the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. I'm glad that God in his mercy doesn't allow us to be tempted above what we're able to bear. The thought came to my mind,it was not particularly directed at anyone in particular; some times we say things and we mean well but when the test comes we don't deliver, we just freeze up and cannot deliver,we simply don't practice what we have preached for whatever reason; we do not always keep our promises; Yep, God is merciful and He understands all about us and He keeps His promises. We sing in a hymn : There hath not failed one word of all God promised to give to us with His beloved Son....... When I was a lad I was told a story about an old man who lived on his own, a very pleasant God fearing old man; one day he felt on top of the world, every thing he did was satisfactory and pleasing, he cooked a meal and ate it and he was very pleased with himself;he gave thanks to God And he loudly said: Lord God, I am so happy and pleased with myself today that if you come to take me tonight I will be ready to go.( a promise). Little did he know that his old neighbour had heard him, he spoke so loudly, so in the middle of the night, his old neighbour knocked at his window and woke him and the conversation went like lis: The Old man: who is it? The neighbour: I am God, I have come to take you tonight as you have so wished. The old man: Please, please God, I was only joking, can't an old man make a joke in his own house? I am not ready yet please give me another chance. An amusing story, but rings true.
|
|
|
Post by bubbles on Apr 30, 2015 10:47:34 GMT -5
I feel I have stood up for Jesus, many time in meeting, and on this board to have my head chopped off by others. Sometimes I wish it had been literally not just figuratively! Aww..thats horrid. If I ever made you feel like that I hope you would tell me. We can be strong with comments when it comes to what we believe.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2015 10:48:45 GMT -5
I feel I have stood up for Jesus, many time in meeting, and on this board to have my head chopped off by others. Sometimes I wish it had been literally not just figuratively! That makes me feel very sad indeed, honestly.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Apr 30, 2015 11:03:26 GMT -5
Felicity,I would hope people practice what they preach. I totally agree with that! I certainly try to live what I believe, though I've "fallen often in the struggle". That's part of the problem though. If you believe in division and live what you believe.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Apr 30, 2015 11:11:53 GMT -5
And you believe it's good, right and loving to follow someone who divides humanity instead of uniting humanity? humanity divides itself even without someone to follow true, so why make it worse by following someone who blatantly supports division?
|
|
|
Post by mdm on Apr 30, 2015 11:32:27 GMT -5
A quick question to all who say they practice what thy preach. Would you admit that you will stand up for Jesus come what may if you knew that if you made that admission you would immediately get your head chopped off? Would you be a martyr for the Gospel sake? Only honest answers from the heart please. Honestly, I don't know what I would do and have often wondered about it myself. Mary can correct me, but I have a feeling she is not talking about what we would do under such extreme and hypothetical circumstances, but about what we actually do in the course of our daily lives - whether we willfully and habitually engage in behaviors that stem from thought patterns we are given to in secret while outwardly professing holiness.
|
|
|
Post by matisse on Apr 30, 2015 11:52:00 GMT -5
Here is one link, maryh to something I wrote a while back about my loss of faith: Suspension of disbeliefAnd another I wrote about some of the process I went through after the loss of my faith: HealingBeautiful. Thank you so much matisse :) Your posts resonate on so many levels. A little bit like you I question many things. It's part of my nature too and I wonder where eventually my questions might potentially lead. So may I ask? Have you left behind all belief in a God or just the personal God of Christianity? And if the answer is that you don't believe in any version of God did this disbelief transpire at the same time or a different point in time to when you stopped believing in the personal God of Christianity? :) Ellie, thank you for your feedback... I think to answer your first question, I will just say that after I stopped going to meetings but before my "tipping point", there were nights I sat bolt upright in a cold sweat, terrified that I might be making a big mistake. Since losing my faith, now 25+ years ago, I have not had one episode of cold-sweat terror around the idea of a judging and punishing god. I do not believe in the existence of an interactive, personal, "paranormal" god of any kind. I believe any positive aspects of "God" that I "experienced" in my youth are a natural part of being human that were projected on an idea of "God". I think at some level I knew this the moment I lost my faith...on other levels, there was a process that took some time. I watched the interview series between Joseph Campbell and Bill Moyers, " The Power of Myth" Despite the seriously ugly, vintage 1970's polyester ties and jackets....with maybe even a leisure suit in there somewhere, I found the series enormously helpful for putting the beliefs I was brought up with into context with belief traditions around the world and across time. I am inclined to reserve the word "god" for the idea of the interactive personal god, like the Christian God. Anything other I expect would be better described using mathematics or physics. I found after losing my faith that I had to examine a lot of things that I previously had "pat answers" for. Like grappling with the idea that this life is all that we get, and how to make peace with this and peace with the idea that when loved ones die, the goodbye is final. If there is no God with a plan for my life, then what is life about? If there is no God to trust with His Perfect Plan, then how does one relate to the existence of hunger and poverty and racism and various forms of injustice and suffering in the world? ...to name a few. I have no regrets about losing the "pat answers" and having to face questions like this head-on and to the best of my ability. I hope this is helpful....please do not hesitate to ask, publicly or privately.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2015 11:52:25 GMT -5
I totally agree with that! I certainly try to live what I believe, though I've "fallen often in the struggle". That's part of the problem though. If you believe in division and live what you believe. Part of what problem? "How can two walk together except they be agreed?"
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Apr 30, 2015 11:59:56 GMT -5
A quick question to all who say they practice what thy preach. Would you admit that you will stand up for Jesus come what may if you knew that if you made that admission you would immediately get your head chopped off? Would you be a martyr for the Gospel sake? Only honest answers from the heart please. Wow what a question! Partaker I'm afraid I'm a big fat fail in that regard! Sometimes I can't even open my mouth in some situations! I definitely couldn't go through that without Gods complete strength in my heart! Left to me, no i think I'd fail! But if I was in that situation I'd be begging God for help!
|
|