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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 5, 2014 16:20:25 GMT -5
If you want to give someone the benefit of the doubt, don't leave him at the mercy of the gossip mongers. Report him to the authorities and wait until they decide whether the accusation is merited or not. They're the ONLY ones with the authority and means to properly investigate such a matter and effectively clear his name. Fortunately, I am not in the mainstream of gossip and never hear names and when I do it is N th hand knowledge. And if you press the gossip mongers the facts usually leads to another person relating the same 'news', sometimes, I think, in a endless circle. Perhaps more like a Möbius strip that seems to go on and on but is single sided. You still may be a mandated reporter. |
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 5, 2014 16:22:45 GMT -5
You get yourself so wrapped up in so many irrelevant details that when you try to correct errors and extract yourself you appear like someone who is dancing with a coil of concertina wire. Your point was not misconstrued. Rational ~ O.K. I screwed up! I admit it. I now see the light due to your wisdom in pointing it out to me.  However, I was thinking about people being homophobic in my response on this thread dealing with gay workers. My thoughts just didn't come out right and could easily have conveyed something entirely different than I originally intended. I admit to that fact! I didn't pick up on this error in communication until you actually brought it to my personal attention. Thank you for being so observant! I hoped my explanation that followed conveyed my true feelings regarding this matter. If not, than I probably screwed up again? 
OMG - she genuflects.  |
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Post by rational on Apr 5, 2014 16:54:22 GMT -5
Fortunately, I am not in the mainstream of gossip and never hear names and when I do it is N th hand knowledge. And if you press the gossip mongers the facts usually leads to another person relating the same 'news', sometimes, I think, in a endless circle. Perhaps more like a Möbius strip that seems to go on and on but is single sided. You still may be a mandated reporter. As it turns out, in my state and current profession I am not mandated by law to report. However, one does not have to be a mandated reporter to report child abuse. |
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Post by faune on Apr 5, 2014 17:29:54 GMT -5
Rational ~ O.K. I screwed up! I admit it. I now see the light due to your wisdom in pointing it out to me. However, I was thinking about people being homophobic in my response on this thread dealing with gay workers. My thoughts just didn't come out right and could easily have conveyed something entirely different than I originally intended. I admit to that fact! I didn't pick up on this error in communication until you actually brought it to my personal attention. Thank you for being so observant! I hoped my explanation that followed conveyed my true feelings regarding this matter. If not, than I probably screwed up again?
OMG - she genuflects. ~ More like I stumble over my words and Rational always catches me at it! He must be an English teacher with his eye for detail? LOL |
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Post by faune on Apr 5, 2014 17:38:37 GMT -5
You still may be a mandated reporter. As it turns out, in my state and current profession I am not mandated by law to report. However, one does not have to be a mandated reporter to report child abuse. ~ Now you got my curiosity up again as to what your current profession might be where you are not mandated by law (within your state) to report child abuse. Any chance you might share your present occupation with us? I guessed you're an English teacher with your keen eye for sentence clarity, but I could be way off base again?  |
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Post by faune on Apr 5, 2014 18:01:27 GMT -5
There is a wide range and I believe that in most people's imagination they imagine the worst.There is a difference between a CSA offender and a rumored CSA offender. I am on the side of giving the person the benefit of the doubt, especially if the incident has not been reported to the authorities. If the victim is making the accusation it should be made to an authority that can actually do something. If you want to give someone the benefit of the doubt, don't leave him at the mercy of the gossip mongers. Report him to the authorities and wait until they decide whether the accusation is merited or not. They're the ONLY ones with the authority and means to properly investigate such a matter and effectively clear his name. Bob ~ I agree that if there's a rumored case of CSA within some church group, there's a chance there might be something to it? Also, if the victim is the one making these accusations, it definitely should be reported to the proper authorities for investigation and any action that needs to be taken. Then, if there is not sufficient evidence to back up the alleged claim, the man's name can be completely cleared. Perhaps that's one good reason why people need to be educated to keep an observant eye on their kids around others ~ even trusted family members and friends. Unfortunately, it's usually those who are related to the victim or trusted friends who end up being found guilty of CSA according to the statistics. That makes it a real betrayal of trust, which could haunt that child for the rest of their lives, making it all the more criminal in nature! This PDF deals with all the particulars regarding CSA in Australia and is quite informative on this subject matter:
www.bravehearts.org.au/files/Facts%20and%20Stats_updated141212.pdf
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Post by faune on Apr 5, 2014 18:20:49 GMT -5
This is an excerpt on Paedophilia, which is considered the health problem of the decade within most countries today, although it reports on problems in Australia regarding CSA. Reading parts of this PDF on CSA really bothered me. It surely reveals how evil and criminal in nature are CSA cases and how this behavior will never be eradicated unless people become more pro-active in reporting these offenses or suspicions of the same.
www.bravehearts.org.au/files/Facts%20and%20Stats_updated141212.pdf
Paedophilia: The health problem of the decade – Dr Bill Glaser
Imagine a society afflicted by a scourge which struck down a quarter of its daughters
and up to one in eight of its sons.
Imagine also that this plague, while not immediately fatal, lurked in the bodies and
minds of these young children for decades, making them up to sixteen times more
likely to experience its disastrous long-term effects.
Finally, imagine the nature of these effects: life-threatening starvation, suicide,
persistent nightmares, drug and alcohol abuse and a whole host of intractable
psychiatric disorders requiring life-long treatment. What would the society’s
response be?
The scourge that we are speaking of is child sexual abuse. It has accounted for
probably more misery and suffering than any of the great plagues of history,
including the bubonic plague, tuberculosis and syphilis. Its effects are certainly more
devastating and widespread than those of the modern-day epidemics which currently
take up so much community attention and resources: motor vehicle accidents, heart
disease and, now, AIDS. Yet the public response to child sexual abuse, even now, is
fragmented, poorly coordinated and generally ill-informed.
Its victims have no National AIDS Council to advise governments on policy and
research issues; They have no National Heart Foundation to promote public
education as to the risks of smoking and unhealthy lifestyles; They do not have a
Transport Accident Commission to provide comprehensive treatment and
rehabilitation services for them.
A massive public health problem like child sexual abuse demands a massive societal
response. But firstly, we need to acknowledge and understand the problem itself, and
this is, sadly enough, a task which both professionals and the community have been
reluctant to undertake despite glaringly obvious evidence in front of us.
Source: Excerpt from Glaser, W. “Paedophilia: The Public Health Problem of the
Decade” – Australian Institute of Criminology Conference on Paedophilia, Sydney April
1997.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2014 18:27:44 GMT -5
If you want to give someone the benefit of the doubt, don't leave him at the mercy of the gossip mongers. Report him to the authorities and wait until they decide whether the accusation is merited or not. They're the ONLY ones with the authority and means to properly investigate such a matter and effectively clear his name. Bob ~ I agree that if there's a rumored case of CSA with some church group, there's a chance there might be something to it? Also, if the victim is the one making these accusations, it definitely should be reported to the proper authorities for investigation and any action that needs to be taken. Then, if there is not sufficient evidence to back up the alleged claim, the man's name can be completely cleared. Perhaps that's one good reason why people need to be educated to keep an observant eye on their kids around others ~ even trusted family members and friends. Unfortunately, it's usually those who are related to the victim or trusted friends who end up being found guilty of CSA according to the statistics. That makes it a real betrayal of trust, which could haunt that child for the rest of their lives, making it all the more criminal in nature! This PDF deals with all the particulars regarding CSA and is quite informative on this subject matter:
www.bravehearts.org.au/files/Facts%20and%20Stats_updated141212.pdf
i have a friend that was accused of CSA then the accuser recanted his story after he spent 3 months in jail..he has never recovered from the accusation hes become a recluse in everything... |
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 5, 2014 20:39:37 GMT -5
OMG - she genuflects. ~ More like I stumble over my words and Rational always catches me at it! He must be an English teacher with his eye for detail? LOL I was just impressed with your gracious apology. |
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 5, 2014 20:49:26 GMT -5
Bob ~ I agree that if there's a rumored case of CSA with some church group, there's a chance there might be something to it? Also, if the victim is the one making these accusations, it definitely should be reported to the proper authorities for investigation and any action that needs to be taken. Then, if there is not sufficient evidence to back up the alleged claim, the man's name can be completely cleared. Perhaps that's one good reason why people need to be educated to keep an observant eye on their kids around others ~ even trusted family members and friends. Unfortunately, it's usually those who are related to the victim or trusted friends who end up being found guilty of CSA according to the statistics. That makes it a real betrayal of trust, which could haunt that child for the rest of their lives, making it all the more criminal in nature! This PDF deals with all the particulars regarding CSA and is quite informative on this subject matter:
www.bravehearts.org.au/files/Facts%20and%20Stats_updated141212.pdf
i have a friend that was accused of CSA then the accuser recanted his story after he spent 3 months in jail..he has never recovered from the accusation hes become a recluse in everything... Was he raped in jail? What kind of proof did they bring against him? In court you're supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. He said she said is not enough to convict a person. But then, if you're in the US it depends a lot on who gets elected judge in your jurisdiction. People love judges who put everyone in the slammer. Did he not sue the person who lied about him? There's more to that case than you've told us. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2014 20:58:12 GMT -5
he's never said what happened to him in jail, no he did not sue his step-child(his accuser), hes totally withdrawn from everyone that knew him so its hard to say whats going through his mind...i suspect though that as with any CSA offender his life was in jepordy while incarcerated...
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Post by faune on Apr 5, 2014 21:32:01 GMT -5
Bob ~ I agree that if there's a rumored case of CSA with some church group, there's a chance there might be something to it? Also, if the victim is the one making these accusations, it definitely should be reported to the proper authorities for investigation and any action that needs to be taken. Then, if there is not sufficient evidence to back up the alleged claim, the man's name can be completely cleared. Perhaps that's one good reason why people need to be educated to keep an observant eye on their kids around others ~ even trusted family members and friends. Unfortunately, it's usually those who are related to the victim or trusted friends who end up being found guilty of CSA according to the statistics. That makes it a real betrayal of trust, which could haunt that child for the rest of their lives, making it all the more criminal in nature! This PDF deals with all the particulars regarding CSA and is quite informative on this subject matter:
www.bravehearts.org.au/files/Facts%20and%20Stats_updated141212.pdf
i have a friend that was accused of CSA then the accuser recanted his story after he spent 3 months in jail..he has never recovered from the accusation hes become a recluse in everything... Wally ~ What happened to the person who recanted his story? Was it a girlfriend who felt scorned or something? Was this involving CSA or some other type of sexual offense? If it involved young children safety being at stake, than I feel a person should notify authorities to investigate. If they find no reason to arrest the guy, than that would be the end of it. However, usually people don't make accusations without something behind them, because they stand the chance of getting sued for libel if there's nothing to back it up and the person's reputation is damaged as a result.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2014 22:03:45 GMT -5
i don't think a minor(12 or 13) can be sued for libel can they? in any event for whatever reason my friend chose not to pursue the matter...it was CSA he was accused of...
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Post by rational on Apr 5, 2014 22:11:19 GMT -5
As it turns out, in my state and current profession I am not mandated by law to report. However, one does not have to be a mandated reporter to report child abuse. ~ Now you got my curiosity up again as to what your current profession might be where you are not mandated by law (within your state) to report child abuse. Any chance you might share your present occupation with us? I guessed you're an English teacher with your keen eye for sentence clarity, but I could be way off base again? :D I think you are way, way off base! I'm a tree psychiatrist/surgeon. I first attempt to find out what is bothering the tree. If unsuccessful I cut it down. If successful I talk and reason with the tree to try to solve it's problems. If not successful I cut it down. Leaping from tree to tree as they float down the mighty rivers. Bucking them up, splitting them, stacking them, and then burning them as part of the final treatment. However, English is my first language. |
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 5, 2014 22:18:31 GMT -5
he's never said what happened to him in jail, no he did not sue his step-child(his accuser), hes totally withdrawn from everyone that knew him so its hard to say whats going through his mind...i suspect though that as with any CSA offender his life was in jepordy while incarcerated... In that case the CSA accusation is not the biggest reason for your friend's withdrawal from everyone. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2014 22:21:41 GMT -5
one can only guess...
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 5, 2014 22:21:48 GMT -5
i don't think a minor(12 or 13) can be sued for libel can they? in any event for whatever reason my friend chose not to pursue the matter...it was CSA he was accused of... Parents of delinquents get sued all the time. Believe me, in the last 5 years I was teaching half of the students' parents had been sued because of things their kids did. |
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 5, 2014 22:33:58 GMT -5
i don't think a minor(12 or 13) can be sued for libel can they? in any event for whatever reason my friend chose not to pursue the matter...it was CSA he was accused of... Here's an answer about suing minors for libel: [The kid had apparently messed with a neighbor lady and got himself in big trouble) The specific answer to your question may turn on the applicable state law. But generally there is no bar to suing you (as a minor child for torts) such as libel and slander. It's with respect to breach of contract claims for which you generally cannot sue a minor.
Most likely, your scurrilous lady neighbor will have to serve the complaint on both you and your parents or guardian. Different states have different rules regarding how to execute service of process on the a defendant minor.
Unless your parents knew in advance of your tendency toward libelous pontifications (and even then I doubt it), they probably will not be liable for your libel. Again, different states have different rules as to when--and if--you can impose liability on a parent for the torts of his or her child.
But remember, it costs money to initiate a lawsuit. And it costs time. I seriously doubt you are at risk of being sued (but I've been wrong before). Moreover, she would need to prove damages to make her case (this may not be strictly true if you called her a lady or attacked her professional/business reputation). Finally, you can simply point out that truth is an absolute defense to libel (there are other torts involving oral attacks where truth is not a defense, but you asked about libel). When I was six, I remember my mother calling me into the house (after she and my uncle had finished laughing) because I had called the neighbor lady a "poop ass". Of course, she had called me a "sh.tty bastard" and I had nothing worse to say back at her. |
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 6, 2014 13:20:22 GMT -5
Rational ~ Now you got my curiosity up again as to what your current profession might be where you are not mandated by law (within your state) to report child abuse. Any chance you might share your present occupation with us? I guessed you're an English teacher with your keen eye for sentence clarity, but I could be way off base again? I think you are way, way off base! I'm a tree psychiatrist/surgeon. I first attempt to find out what is bothering the tree. If unsuccessful I cut it down. If successful I talk and reason with the tree to try to solve it's problems. If not successful I cut it down. Leaping from tree to tree as they float down the mighty rivers. Bucking them up, splitting them, stacking them, and then burning them as part of the final treatment. However, English is my first language.   |
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Post by snow on Apr 6, 2014 15:02:04 GMT -5
I think you are way, way off base! I'm a tree psychiatrist/surgeon. I first attempt to find out what is bothering the tree. If unsuccessful I cut it down. If successful I talk and reason with the tree to try to solve it's problems. If not successful I cut it down. Leaping from tree to tree as they float down the mighty rivers. Bucking them up, splitting them, stacking them, and then burning them as part of the final treatment. However, English is my first language. Does that kind of relationship remind you of something dmmichgood? If we fail, god cut's us down too. |
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Post by rational on Apr 6, 2014 18:06:12 GMT -5
This might best be left to the professionals. Unless you think there is some value in guessing about your friend's mental health. |
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Post by rational on Apr 6, 2014 18:57:30 GMT -5
i don't think a minor(12 or 13) can be sued for libel can they? in any event for whatever reason my friend chose not to pursue the matter...it was CSA he was accused of... I don't think minor can easily file the charges. The minor child is the responsibility of the parents/guardians. Of course, what parents would not want to press charges if their child reports abuse. |
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Post by rational on Apr 6, 2014 19:11:05 GMT -5
I think you are way, way off base! I'm a tree psychiatrist/surgeon. I first attempt to find out what is bothering the tree. If unsuccessful I cut it down. If successful I talk and reason with the tree to try to solve it's problems. If not successful I cut it down. Leaping from tree to tree as they float down the mighty rivers. Bucking them up, splitting them, stacking them, and then burning them as part of the final treatment. However, English is my first language. Ah, rational! -You mean if YOU are the one that fails to be successful it treating the tree, it is the poor tree that gets the axe! I'll be honest - when the tree comes for treatment, at the end of the day, it will be heating my house. Probably doesn't sound fair to the trees but I did survey several groves containing a variety trees and asked any that had objections to email me or send snail mail by the end of business that day. I even waited an extra day and nothing. So, wood for the winter! |
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Post by eyedeetentee on Apr 7, 2014 11:00:16 GMT -5
Het, Rat, can I borrow some wood? Humdidee, Rational gave up his street walking career last I checked. I don't think he even has a John anymore. |
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Post by rational on Apr 7, 2014 11:00:27 GMT -5
Het, Rat, can I borrow some wood? Sure but you should know that this wood had some severe problems that were never resolved. When the wood is burned the smoke can be dangerous. And there is a lot of willow so if it rains and gets wet you will have growing trees and have to share in the shame of slaughtering the infant trees. Plus, willow burns much like a punk stick - your neighbors will be less than happy and your family will wonder why the stove is cool to the touch! Wood only good for a mild climate (which is soon to be everywhere)! |
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 7, 2014 14:28:36 GMT -5
Hey, Rat, can I borrow some wood?
I can see how you could return the ashes, but what about the smoke? Can you somehow corral the smoke and return it?
What about any interest on the "borrowed " wood?
How do you figure out how much interest that you owe in addition to the wood that you need to pay back?
Or maybe you just put it in the fireplace and imagine it burning & imagine the warmth coming from the supposed burning wood?
Then I suppose you would only be charged for the "time" that you had the wood.
It seems to me that there are a lot of problems in "borrowing" wood.    Now that it is going to take my whole day trying to figure that one out, I am leaving for the time being.
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Post by rational on Apr 7, 2014 14:52:22 GMT -5
Hey, Rat, can I borrow some wood? In roughly the same way I talk to the trees to try to solve their problems! |
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Post by rational on Apr 8, 2014 14:57:44 GMT -5
DMmichgood, My seven measly words created a 140 word response from you! ha! Ha! Tell you what, let's make a deal. this seems to disturb you more than Rat, so I'll let you pay for the wood. :D 20 times return on investment - seems fair. If the wind is right you can get all of the wood but the ash out of the air. I am not sure what you were were planning to do with the wood but in all fairness I should point out the parts being delivered on the wind are low in energy and structural integrity. |
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However, I was thinking about people being homophobic in my response on this thread dealing with gay workers. My thoughts just didn't come out right and could easily have conveyed something entirely different than I originally intended. I admit to that fact! I didn't pick up on this error in communication until you actually brought it to my personal attention. Thank you for being so observant! I hoped my explanation that followed conveyed my true feelings regarding this matter. If not, than I probably screwed up again? 
