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Post by chabem on Jun 29, 2007 17:27:17 GMT -5
You shouldn't willfully live what Jesus taught is wrong!
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Post by spanky on Oct 28, 2007 20:39:42 GMT -5
You shouldn't willfully live what Jesus taught is wrong! Jesus NEVER, EVER, said ANYTHING about homosexuality. He did say a lot about judging others, though. |
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Post by outlaw on Dec 19, 2007 15:53:41 GMT -5
gene is your bro chris nelson
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Post by calleduntoliberty on May 2, 2008 20:57:29 GMT -5
You shouldn't willfully live what Jesus taught is wrong! Jesus NEVER, EVER, said ANYTHING about homosexuality. Paul did -- and he was sent directly by Jesus to preach and inspired by the Holy Spirit. |
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sorcron
Senior Member
wish I could think up something witty to put here...
Posts: 215
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Post by sorcron on May 7, 2008 16:55:16 GMT -5
All - I've given a fair amount of thought to homosexuality relating to "the church"... but have never run across anywhere to discuss it, til this.
So far as I am aware of, what some people take to be passages about homosexuality in the NT are those where Paul wrote about men with men... I am paraphrasing here. I'm very interested to learn other's thoughts about homosexuality, christianity and realated scripture, if any.
As always, my use of the phrase "the church" is a tem of convenience. Also, there is no agenda my request.
regards, sorcron
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Post by calleduntoliberty on May 7, 2008 18:03:49 GMT -5
sorcron, by "the church" do you mean the "2x2s" here? I'm not aware of any suggestions that the "2x2" thought on this issue is any different from the majority of Christians.
Homosexuality is condemned in both the OT and the NT. Here are the passages/verses that I can find right now which address the issue:
Genesis 19
Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Corinthians 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Timothy 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
Jude 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
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Post by calleduntoliberty on May 7, 2008 18:12:13 GMT -5
In response to chabem and to clarify, I know that some people do promote or tolerate sinful activity or willfully living "what Jesus taught is wrong", but I don't know whether or not that is the purpose of the gay2x2worker board. Some people use the word 'gay' (or homosexual) to refer to inclinations or temptations of that sort, even the person having them recognizes them and does not take sinful action (Jesus made it clear that lust is a sinful action). Others use it only for those who try to justify their temptations and/or engage in such activity without repentance. I prefer the latter because it avoids labeling people who want to serve God and avoid sinning but struggle with temptations.
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sorcron
Senior Member
wish I could think up something witty to put here...
Posts: 215
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Post by sorcron on May 7, 2008 19:50:15 GMT -5
sorcron, by "the church" do you mean the "2x2s" here? Yes... "the church" is just the phrase I use. I'm not aware of any suggestions that the "2x2" thought on this issue is any different from the majority of Christians. In general, I concur with you. It was just that my thoughts about this had been in relation to "the church", rather than the 'majority of Christians'. cheers, sorcron |
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Archie
Junior Member
Non,je ne regrette rein!!!!
Posts: 64
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Post by Archie on Jul 28, 2009 6:26:20 GMT -5
Well all will be revealed in the end....
God accepts a gay relationship and those who live in them...
I do not give a damn what Paul or Peter wrote....
Its what is in the heart and the conversations between God and oneself that matters.
I see way too much that it is OK to "do things under the cover of darkness"
that no one sees..but they will be caught out eventually...
It is better to live life in full view,so everyone can see ,that just because your love is for another man,God accepts us..
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Post by Annan on Aug 5, 2009 10:41:12 GMT -5
Paul did -- and he was sent directly by Jesus to preach and inspired by the Holy Spirit. And Paul was a man. He was not perfect. Like all of us, he had his own opinions. If homosexuality was distasteful to him, I have no doubt he thought of it as a sin. And if we are going to quote OT scripture, why do we not stone people to death for adultery and eating pork, and a whole host of other rules and regulations given by God? Did Jesus not command us to love? I do not see anywhere where Jesus restricted who we can love. And is God himself not the author of love? In my opinion, some people seem to have nothing better to do than to worry about what other people are doing in their bedrooms and who they are doing it with.  |
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Post by eyedeetentee on Aug 5, 2009 23:46:45 GMT -5
Oh crap! Is it restricted to only the bedroom? I have sinned.
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Post by pianoman on Aug 9, 2009 10:25:38 GMT -5
I think love is love. I have a list on my other tower of redicules things from the bible and will post it when I get my tower back online.
Yesterday was yesterday, and today is today. Judgment is judgment, and let's let a better judge handle this matter.
Thou shalt not judge, lest ye be judged........Tough shoes to wear on different feet.
I say, let the individuals be responsible.
Would a kind, loving gay person be turned away from heaven, and a bitter, rigid, judging person be admitted? If so, I will pass.
Gene, love you brother,..............................Pianoman
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Post by pianoman on Aug 9, 2009 10:27:15 GMT -5
eyedeetentee, I think that when Annan mentions the bedroom, that is just a phrase.
Elevators, parks, restaurants and other public places are really okay. Just don't get caught......
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Post by Annan on Aug 9, 2009 14:37:28 GMT -5
eyedeetentee, I think that when Annan mentions the bedroom, that is just a phrase. Elevators, parks, restaurants and other public places are really okay. Just don't get caught...... I rather think eyedeetentee is smart enough to figure that one out. Public places?  I've taken my bedroom activities outside occasionally, but not in public places. I'm adventurous, but not that adventurous. Sex in a restaurant?  *changes her mind about going out to eat* |
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thomas
Junior Member
Posts: 132
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Post by thomas on Sept 11, 2009 0:31:01 GMT -5
The Bible has been used for the oppression and murder of many different people. Two good examples would be the crusades and slavery. These people that supported these things believed that the Bible also supported these things. However, it's obvious to us now that these things were wrong and misinterpretation of scripture. Can it possibly be the same thing with homosexuality? Read this article.. www.soulforce.org/article/homosexuality-bible-gay-christian |
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Post by eyedeetentee on Sept 11, 2009 16:28:50 GMT -5
Naw, christians never misinterpret. Just ask one.
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gells
Senior Member
Posts: 744
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Post by gells on Oct 6, 2009 19:43:28 GMT -5
Naw, christians never misinterpret. Just ask one. hmm i do believe that you are incorrect in your assumption. Isn't that what bible studies are for? To discuss what these things mean?? |
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Post by irvinegrey on Jan 9, 2010 12:20:14 GMT -5
Of course Scripture condemns homosexual practices just the same as it condemns all sin. But the Scripture also gives hope to those who engage in homosexual acts just as it gives hope to those engaged in any sinful act. I note that one contributor quotes a number of Scriptures condemning homosexual acts, amongst them 1 Corinthians 6: 9+10 but fails to quote verse 11, "And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God". These three verses should be read or quoted together, not in isolation.
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Post by snow on Jan 9, 2010 16:53:57 GMT -5
Actually Paul refers to "unnatural acts" does he not? It is unnatural for a homosexual to have a heterosexual relationship so to have a homosexual relationship is natural for them and therefore okay. It is unnatural for a heterosexual person to have a homosexual relationship so maybe that's what Paul is talking about. Some biblical scholars actually think that this is what was meant. As far as the OT there are many things that were considered an "abomination" yet we still do them. We wear clothes of mixed cloth, we don't do animal sacrifices anymore, we don't stone those who sleep with mankind like woman kind anymore nor do we stone our unruly children. Why pick one thing from the list to follow and ignore the rest. Seems like you might have an agenda....  |
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Post by notwhat on Jan 9, 2010 18:20:20 GMT -5
This issue always makes me cringe because I believe so strongly that people are born being attracted to either men or women. It's not something we choose. It's not a "lifestyle." It's who we are. I was born being attracted to the opposite sex. (Sometimes I wish I hadn't been, as it seems it's brought me nothing but trouble, but that's another story.)
My mom, a staunch f&w, told me she could not imagine how awful it would be to be born gay (or I guess, for her it would have been "lesbian") because life would be so much more difficult (as a result of prejudice and hateful people). She wondered how in the world anyone would think that people would CHOOSE to be persecuted for who they love. I so appreciated her understanding of this.
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Post by eyedeetentee on Jan 10, 2010 12:17:00 GMT -5
Not many of the older generations share that sentiment. Your mom is wise.
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Post by irvinegrey on Jan 10, 2010 16:21:41 GMT -5
Snow my only agenda is to be faithful to Scripture. If you read 1 Cor 6:9-10 you will find a list of sins and among the is 'men who practice homosexuality' (ESV) and this does not support your unnatural acts theory. All of the sins in that list must be treated as of equal seriousness and verse 11 as above tells us that there is redemption for all. 'And such were some of you'. Every sinner including the those involved in homosexual acts need our compassion, love and understanding. But we cannot stop there - we must also give hope since Scripture gives hope to every sinner
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Post by eyedeetentee on Jan 11, 2010 12:26:06 GMT -5
Irvine, is the ESV the correct interpretation? Still, do you think the bible is the final say? It all depends on a person's point of view. (You don't have to answer the questions, just consider them.)
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Post by irvinegrey on Jan 11, 2010 12:45:15 GMT -5
I have every confidence in the accuracy of the ESV. Both the Living Bible and the New International Version use the term homosexual in the 1 Corthinians 6:9+10 passage and the KJV 'abusers of themselves with mankind' - all of the versions are clear as to the condemnation of homosexual sin just as they are with the other sins listed. Yes I do believe that Scripture must be the final arbiter and a person's point of view must be guided by Scripture and not vice versa. Our God is a God of love but also a God of justice who shows mercy and gives grace to the vilest sinner. To quote an old hymn 'the vilest offender who truly believes; that moment from Jesus a pardon receives.
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Post by eyedeetentee on Jan 11, 2010 13:00:32 GMT -5
According to the content of your posts thus far, I assume you believe all mankind sins and all can be forgiven. You seem to be level headed. I just hope you are not on the bandwagons that declare all men can be sinless if they so desire and all homosexuals should abstain or correct their 'choice' of desire. (Just thinking of those two opinions cracks me up.)
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Post by Annan on Jan 11, 2010 13:33:51 GMT -5
This issue always makes me cringe because I believe so strongly that people are born being attracted to either men or women. It's not something we choose. It's not a "lifestyle." It's who we are. I was born being attracted to the opposite sex. (Sometimes I wish I hadn't been, as it seems it's brought me nothing but trouble, but that's another story.) My mom, a staunch f&w, told me she could not imagine how awful it would be to be born gay (or I guess, for her it would have been "lesbian") because life would be so much more difficult (as a result of prejudice and hateful people). She wondered how in the world anyone would think that people would CHOOSE to be persecuted for who they love. I so appreciated her understanding of this. I think when people talk about a gay lifestyle, they mean engaging in sexual activity with a person of the same sex is living a gay lifestyle and not simply being sexually attracted to the same sex. My pastor friend says that is where the sin is committed. The love the sinner, hate the sin idea. So I guess a person is supposed to fight against the way God created them. Of course there are those that believe God would never create such an abomination. A gay neighbor asked me once if my son was gay. He said he got vibes that he was. I don't know if it was wishful thinking or that he sees something I don't. It would make no different in how I feel about my son, but I would worry about his safety and acceptance in this world. Just thinking about it makes me rise up to defend. Do people really think gays want to put themselves through the possibility of disrupting and alienating themselves from their families? Or to put their very lives in danger because of all the vigilante idiots in the world? If God says homosexuality is a sin, then let God be the judge and jury when the time comes. I just love how others self-appointment themselves God's henchman. |
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Post by snow on Jan 21, 2010 11:49:47 GMT -5
This issue always makes me cringe because I believe so strongly that people are born being attracted to either men or women. It's not something we choose. It's not a "lifestyle." It's who we are. I was born being attracted to the opposite sex. (Sometimes I wish I hadn't been, as it seems it's brought me nothing but trouble, but that's another story.) My mom, a staunch f&w, told me she could not imagine how awful it would be to be born gay (or I guess, for her it would have been "lesbian") because life would be so much more difficult (as a result of prejudice and hateful people). She wondered how in the world anyone would think that people would CHOOSE to be persecuted for who they love. I so appreciated her understanding of this. I think when people talk about a gay lifestyle, they mean engaging in sexual activity with a person of the same sex is living a gay lifestyle and not simply being sexually attracted to the same sex. My pastor friend says that is where the sin is committed. The love the sinner, hate the sin idea. So I guess a person is supposed to fight against the way God created them. Of course there are those that believe God would never create such an abomination. A gay neighbor asked me once if my son was gay. He said he got vibes that he was. I don't know if it was wishful thinking or that he sees something I don't. It would make no different in how I feel about my son, but I would worry about his safety and acceptance in this world. Just thinking about it makes me rise up to defend. Do people really think gays want to put themselves through the possibility of disrupting and alienating themselves from their families? Or to put their very lives in danger because of all the vigilante idiots in the world? If God says homosexuality is a sin, then let God be the judge and jury when the time comes. I just love how others self-appointment themselves God's henchman. There is a lot of homophobia because of the scriptures. I believe they need to be taken in context though. The Hebrews were a small and picked upon middle eastern tribe of people that struggled with small numbers and captivity many times throughout their history. It makes sense that the phrase "go forth and multiply" would be their motto. It also makes sense that masturbation and homosexuality for men would be frowned upon because it would not further the multiplication of their people. There is nothing in the bible about it being wrong for two women for example, it is just wrong for men. Why would that be? I do believe that people fear what they don't understand. Being with the same sex is natural if you are born a homosexual. Everything points to this being true. Just look at the children that are born as both sexes. How do we decide which one the child is until they become old enough to know for themselves? This is an example of how things are not always clear cut. Like Ananan points out, who are we to judge. I don't believe anyone would just "choose" to be homosexual especially with the way they know they would be treated by the world. |
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Post by eyedeetentee on Jan 21, 2010 12:41:38 GMT -5
I wonder what the talk is between species.
"Did you hear Mr. Grasshopper impregnated himself last year?", asked Mrs. Hyena.
"For shame!", Ms. Rhinocerous bellowed, "He will surely die in a black cloud and be sent to the tar pits for eternity."
It was another day at Cacophony Cafe.
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I've taken my bedroom activities outside occasionally, but not in public places. I'm adventurous, but not that adventurous.
