nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Jun 27, 2024 21:45:35 GMT -5
Unless the Bible explicitly says they were celibate, it's not appropriate to say they were not married. The Bible doesn't even confirm that Joseph and Mary eventually were married either. The Bible, in fact, leaves far more out of Jesus' life out than it includes. Who, except for an apologist, has any idea what was left out of the Bible? Are you serious about Joseph and Mary were NOT married but the scriptures they had children after the birth of Jesus. READ Matthew 13:55-56 names of Jesus four brothers James, Jose’s, Simon and Judas and he had sisters also. How can they NOT be married and had these children after the birth of Jesus? I have the words of Paul, Barnabas, Timothy, Silas, Mark, Luke were celibate like Jesus. READ I Cor. 7: 6-8 For I would all men were even as myself. But every man has his proper gift from God, one man his own gift from God, and another has another. I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good if they were abide even as I am.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 27, 2024 21:59:01 GMT -5
My question was: Can you provide evidence of the itinerant ministry and fellowship in 1880? Opps, sorry… I believe the Vaudois or Waldenses or those like them were still around in 1800s. According to Vaudois Christians church history they existed from 68 AD- 1800s. Were they as corrupt and immoral as the 2x2 cult?
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 27, 2024 22:03:00 GMT -5
So if a seeking soul in New York in 1880 was looking for 2x2 preachers, where would they have found them? God knows people hearts and the conditions of their hearts and God and Christ will judge them accordingly. Here is a true story that I heard about this professing couple, their grand mother had told them to look for two preachers going forth like Jesus had sent them in Bible. After the death of the grand mother, one day two workers came to their town holding gospel meetings and they remembered the words of their mother about two preachers going like Jesus had sent out his apostles. They attended the meetings and professed. So, in the judgment day God knew the condition of the grandmother’s heart that if she was alive, she would recognize the two workers were the servants of God and accept them gladly and willingly. We leave that judgment to God and Christ. Many people might NOT get to meet the workers while they were alive but God knows the condition of their hearts so, we leave that to God. In the book of Acts 2 At the Pentecost God had foretold the day is coming when God’s true people and servants will fill the earth with the gospel, and He will lead people to them or the seekers will find them. In my case out of a tiny island of Guam in the Pacific Ocean God lead me to the workers, when they were having Bible studies on the University campus lawn in 1978-79. A seeking soul will always a seeking Savior. God knows where we are and He will find the lost sheep to bring it to the ONE fold, to be fed, nourished, strengthen with other sheep in the same pen for fellowship and protection from the wolves. Nathan said: God knows people hearts and the conditions of their hearts and God and Christ will judge them accordingly. Anyone with a good heart would run a mile from religion, especially the corrupt and immoral cult you belong to.
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Jun 27, 2024 22:11:07 GMT -5
Opps, sorry… I believe the Vaudois or Waldenses or those like them were still around in 1800s. According to Vaudois Christians church history they existed from 68 AD- 1800s. Were they as corrupt and immoral as the 2x2 cult? From what I read, they had all kinds of problems just like the 7 churches in the book of Revelation the 1st century! Immorality, false apostles, false teachings, excommunication, just like we see are happening among the 2x2s today! Humans natures are still same, it’s prone to go astray from doing God’s will and Christ is still working to change these fruits of the flesh put on the fruits of the Spirit in their hearts. Many have NOT pass the tests over the flesh weaknesses, lust, pride, greed, bad habits… We Christians are working in progress so, be patience God is still working with His people and servants.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 27, 2024 22:29:57 GMT -5
Were they as corrupt and immoral as the 2x2 cult? From what I read, they had all kinds of problems just like the 7 churches in the book of Revelation the 1st century! Immorality, false apostles, false teachings, excommunication, just like we see are happening among today! Humans natures are still same, it’s prone to go astray from doing God’s will and Christ is still working to change these fruits of the flesh put on the fruits of the Spirit in their hearts. Many have NOT pass the tests over the flesh weaknesses, lust, pride, greed, bad habits… We Christians are working in progress so, be patience God is still working with His people and servants. Why then would any sane person who has a good heart want to entangle themselves with the christian church, or any church for that matter. You are full of excuses for the immorality in your church and offer no solution to the problems they face.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 27, 2024 23:33:50 GMT -5
Unless the Bible explicitly says they were celibate, it's not appropriate to say they were not married. The Bible doesn't even confirm that Joseph and Mary eventually were married either. The Bible, in fact, leaves far more out of Jesus' life out than it includes. Who, except for an apologist, has any idea what was left out of the Bible? Are you serious about Joseph and Mary were NOT married but the scriptures they had children after the birth of Jesus. READ Matthew 13:55-56 names of Jesus four brothers James, Jose’s, Simon and Judas and he had sisters also. How can they NOT be married and had these children after the birth of Jesus? How can they not be married? Easy. Same way they weren't married when Jesus was born. You know how that could happen. Having a child is not PROOF one is married. But I didn't say they weren't married. I said the Bible does not say that they were married. That means that we don't have proof -- but we are allowed to think they did get married. I think it would be nice to know what kind of wedding they could have had, if they did get married. Did her father give Joseph permission to marry her. We don't know anything about that.
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Jun 27, 2024 23:54:45 GMT -5
From what I read, they had all kinds of problems just like the 7 churches in the book of Revelation the 1st century! Immorality, false apostles, false teachings, excommunication, just like we see are happening among today! Humans natures are still same, it’s prone to go astray from doing God’s will and Christ is still working to change these fruits of the flesh put on the fruits of the Spirit in their hearts. Many have NOT pass the tests over the flesh weaknesses, lust, pride, greed, bad habits… We Christians are working in progress so, be patience God is still working with His people and servants. Why then would any sane person who has a good heart want to entangle themselves with the christian church, or any church for that matter. You are full of excuses for the immorality in your church and offer no solution to the problems they face. NOT ALL of the the friends and workers are immoral and evil people like you and those like you portray the 2x2s are. They are working hard to come with a good solution that will satisfy the friends and workers alike on immorality, CSA/SA and so on. It’s about time they tackle/address these unchristian problems behaviors head on.👍🙌
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Post by Dan on Jun 27, 2024 23:54:56 GMT -5
From what I read, they had all kinds of problems just like the 7 churches in the book of Revelation the 1st century! Immorality, false apostles, false teachings, excommunication, just like we see are happening among today! Humans natures are still same, it’s prone to go astray from doing God’s will and Christ is still working to change these fruits of the flesh put on the fruits of the Spirit in their hearts. Many have NOT pass the tests over the flesh weaknesses, lust, pride, greed, bad habits… We Christians are working in progress so, be patience God is still working with His people and servants. Why then would any sane person who has a good heart want to entangle themselves with the christian church, or any church for that matter. You are full of excuses for the immorality in your church and offer no solution to the problems they face.
Immorality runs rampant everywhere, none of us have an excuse for it. A Christian church is more about faith than it is morality, but good moral behavior is of course the objective. Believers go to church for encouragement, edification, and fellowship. Its tough for some people to consider leaving because the church is a huge part of their lives, it is their whole life. Friends are like family and leaving pulls your whole social network out from under you too. Professing isn't just a shared interest, its a way of life, and everyone your connected to shares the same truth. Its that connection that makes leaving a very difficult decision.
There's no excuse for immoral behavior, most people can live with that. But when it becomes criminal and is a widespread assault on the young and innocent, that's a taboo offense that some folks can't justify or tolerate. Your essentially correct, no sane person would remain in a harmful environment, but many still have hope that a solution will be implemented.
Jesus said that he didn't come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance (Luke 5:32). The harsh realization is that we aren't a church of saints, but a church of sinners. Not even Workers have a monopoly on good behavior, but most are sincere, walk the walk, and put out a good effort. That's the part that many feel is worth hanging on to.
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Jun 28, 2024 0:00:43 GMT -5
Are you serious about Joseph and Mary were NOT married but the scriptures they had children after the birth of Jesus. READ Matthew 13:55-56 names of Jesus four brothers James, Jose’s, Simon and Judas and he had sisters also. How can they NOT be married and had these children after the birth of Jesus? How can they not be married? Easy. Same way they weren't married when Jesus was born. You know how that could happen. Having a child is not PROOF one is married. But I didn't say they weren't married. I said the Bible does not say that they were married. That means that we don't have proof -- but we are allowed to think they did get married. I think it would be nice to know what kind of wedding they could have had, if they did get married. Did her father give Joseph permission to marry her. We don't know anything about that. The children are the fruits of Joesph and Mary marriage! Mary was engaged to be married before she had Jesus. After Mary had fulfilled God’s plan, I believed Mary became Joesph wife wouldn’t you think? I don’t believe Mary would live and be Joseph husband without both of their parents approval, wouldn’t you think?
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Jun 28, 2024 0:04:38 GMT -5
Why then would any sane person who has a good heart want to entangle themselves with the christian church, or any church for that matter. You are full of excuses for the immorality in your church and offer no solution to the problems they face.
Immorality runs rampant everywhere, none of us have an excuse for it. A Christian church is more about faith than it is morality, but good moral behavior is of course the objective. Believers go to church for encouragement, edification, and fellowship. It’s tough for some people to consider leaving because the church is a huge part of their lives, it is their whole life.
Friends are like family and leaving pulls your whole social network out from under you too. Professing isn't just a shared interest, its a way of life, and everyone you’re connected to shares the same truth. Its that connection that makes leaving a very difficult decision.
There's no excuse for immoral behavior, but most people can live with that. But when it becomes criminal and is a widespread assault on the young and innocent, that's a taboo offense that some folks can't justify or tolerate. Your essentially correct, no sane person would remain in a harmful environment, but many still have hope that a solution will be implemented.
Jesus said that he didn't come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance (Luke 5:32). The harsh realization is that we aren't a church of saints, but a church of sinners. Not even Workers have a monopoly on good behavior, but most are sincere, walk the walk, and put out a good effort. That's the part that many feel is worth hanging on to.
Amen! to that, bro. We are still sinners as long we live in this mortal bodies and we will continue to sins and make mistake but the blood of Jesus continues to renew/forgive/cleanse us each morning! When we confess our sins to God. This way Satan can’t make us feel guilty, depress to realize our past sins to weight heavily on our minds constantly. As Christians we have a clean record every day as long as we live in serving God to the end. Jesus said in Matthew 24:14 He that endure unto the END shall be SAVED.
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Post by help on Jun 28, 2024 2:07:08 GMT -5
There is a big difference betwen what is a sin and what is a crime. If you break the law, it is not possible to rock up to Church and ask forgiveness, You will be dealt with by the law. If the person is found guilty, they will be convicted and then sentenced. If a Court has found you guilty and convicted you of an offence, there will be a record of your conviction. Depending on the type of offence, your conviction may be recorded on your driving record or criminal record.
So let us not pretend that crime is just a form of sin and the Church can take care of it.
IMO it is far better to have an active conscience and try not to sin, rather than forgiveness on Sunday and sin again on Monday. When we sin, we believe a lie or act according to something that is not true. An offence against right conscience. Every sin is an act contrary to our conscience. We know we have done wrong, stop doing it be conirolled by your conscience, always try to be a better person.
At the end of the day, “Anyone can find the dirt in someone. Be the one that finds the gold,” regardless of their Church-attending status.
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Jun 28, 2024 8:20:58 GMT -5
There is a big difference betwen what is a sin and what is a crime. If you break the law, it is not possible to rock up to Church and ask forgiveness, You will be dealt with by the law. If the person is found guilty, they will be convicted and then sentenced. If a Court has found you guilty and convicted you of an offence, there will be a record of your conviction. Depending on the type of offence, your conviction may be recorded on your driving record or criminal record. So let us not pretend that crime is just a form of sin and the Church can take care of it. IMO it is far better to have an active conscience and try not to sin, rather than forgiveness on Sunday and sin again on Monday. When we sin, we believe a lie or act according to something that is not true. An offence against right conscience. Every sin is an act contrary to our conscience. We know we have done wrong, stop doing it be conirolled by your conscience, always try to be a better person. At the end of the day, “Anyone can find the dirt in someone. Be the one that finds the gold,” regardless of their Church-attending status. I agree. Like Dan and I have said ALL sins are forgiven by God through the precious blood the Lamb of God/ Jesus except the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, that can not be forgiven in this life or next to come. If any Christian believer or 2x2 rob a bank, committed any serious crimes they must go prison according the laws of the land, that is how it works! God has placed the authority and the laws of the land to punish laws breakers. God had forgiven king David sins of murder and adultery against God’s laws but he had to pay for the consequences of his ungodly behaviors on his family, and the kingdom eventually many headaches after his death. The kingdom of David scattered for the next 3000 years! In Acts 1:8-10, Christ 2nd coming will RESTORE king David’s eternal kingdom, and to rule for 1000 years on earth and beyond with the True believers! Christ will be the perfect king, with true justice without faults and making no mistakes or wrong decision against the people whom he ruled over.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 28, 2024 13:02:50 GMT -5
Why then would any sane person who has a good heart want to entangle themselves with the christian church, or any church for that matter. You are full of excuses for the immorality in your church and offer no solution to the problems they face.
Immorality runs rampant everywhere, none of us have an excuse for it. A Christian church is more about faith than it is morality, but good moral behavior is of course the objective. Believers go to church for encouragement, edification, and fellowship. Its tough for some people to consider leaving because the church is a huge part of their lives, it is their whole life. Friends are like family and leaving pulls your whole social network out from under you too. Professing isn't just a shared interest, its a way of life, and everyone your connected to shares the same truth. Its that connection that makes leaving a very difficult decision.
There's no excuse for immoral behavior, but most people can live with that. But when it becomes criminal and is a widespread assault on the young and innocent, that's a taboo offense that some folks can't justify or tolerate. Your essentially correct, no sane person would remain in a harmful environment, but many still have hope that a solution will be implemented.
Jesus said that he didn't come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance (Luke 5:32). The harsh realization is that we aren't a church of saints, but a church of sinners. Not even Workers have a monopoly on good behavior, but most are sincere, walk the walk, and put out a good effort. That's the part that many feel is worth hanging on to.
Dan said. :A Christian church is more about faith than it is morality" That's very evident.
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Post by help on Jun 28, 2024 15:24:11 GMT -5
Quote by Nathan, "I agree. Like Dan and I have said ALL sins are forgiven by God through the precious blood the Lamb of God". This statement gets parroted off all the time. IMO it encourages people to sin and see it as a flaw in the Christian philosophy.
And nobody can explain the mechanics of it. Science would not be able to do so. To me it was a smart invention of the Christian Church to put bums on seats on Sunday.
I know there is no proper answer, because religion is illusory by nature, and you need faith to comprehend it. Some of us prefer facts.
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Post by Dan on Jun 28, 2024 17:32:18 GMT -5
Quote by Nathan, "I agree. Like Dan and I have said ALL sins are forgiven by God through the precious blood the Lamb of God". This statement gets parroted off all the time. IMO it encourages people to sin and see it as a flaw in the Christian philosophy. And nobody can explain the mechanics of it. Science would not be able to do so. To me it was a smart invention of the Christian Church to put bums on seats on Sunday. I know there is no proper answer, because religion is illusory by nature, and you need faith to comprehend it. Some of us prefer facts.
Being redeemed from sin isn't a flaw, nor does it encourage a person to sin. Forgiveness is not automatic, it requires repentance, so it's not something that can be exploited. Romans 3:23 says, “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God", and we know that "The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 6:23). Its our faith in him that makes us whole, because he answered the curse of the law on our behave. By taking our sins upon himself, the penalty for sin was paid and our death sentence suspended. That's why Jesus is the only true path, only he secured eternal life for sinners.
Newtons Law says; "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction". That's attributed to motion, but from a spiritual perspective, Christ was the opposite reaction to sin. Our actions are sinful but Christ suffered the reaction that satisfied the law. It's morally comprehensible because every immoral action demands a moral reaction or response, but of course morality evades science. Philosophically speaking, Jesus is the yin to a believers yang.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 28, 2024 20:15:54 GMT -5
How can they not be married? Easy. Same way they weren't married when Jesus was born. You know how that could happen. Having a child is not PROOF one is married. But I didn't say they weren't married. I said the Bible does not say that they were married. That means that we don't have proof -- but we are allowed to think they did get married. I think it would be nice to know what kind of wedding they could have had, if they did get married. Did her father give Joseph permission to marry her. We don't know anything about that. The children are the fruits of Joesph and Mary marriage! Certainly NOT all of them. Christians are supposed to believe Mary was a virgin and Joseph was not the father. So she was. We are not told anything about the wedding, so there is no proof. But you are allowed to believe whatever you want -- some people believe they have proof the earth is flat. That's very possible. It's perfectly logical to think and/or believe that. It's comforting to believe that. But there's NO marriage certificate to PROVE it. You understand that? You can think and believe whatever brings you comfort. You MAY be right. I have not given it much thought. But if they were not married, they'd probably not be the oldy bastards in their family tree.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 29, 2024 9:58:31 GMT -5
good questions, The 900 names mentioned or convicted, is that the last 75 years to now ? or just the last 5 years? You have to be cleared in what period of time frame so people don’t get all hype up and freak out. Now there are some very loose numbers here. What do you mean by "you have to be cleared in what period of time frame? Here's a link to some more figures. www.advocatesforthetruth.com/statsThere is also a spreadsheet somewhere on the net which lists individual cases. I currently cannot find it but the above link is an accurate summary of it.
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Jun 29, 2024 10:10:58 GMT -5
The children are the fruits of Joesph and Mary marriage! Certainly NOT all of them. Christians are supposed to believe Mary was a virgin and Joseph was not the father. So she was. We are not told anything about the wedding, so there is no proof. But you are allowed to believe whatever you want -- some people believe they have proof the earth is flat. That's very possible. It's perfectly logical to think and/or believe that. It's comforting to believe that. But there's NO marriage certificate to PROVE it. You understand that? You can think and believe whatever brings you comfort. You MAY be right. I have not given it much thought. But if they were not married, they'd probably not be the oldy bastards in their family tree. ~~ Nathan wrote: Thanks, Bob for sharing your understanding. In God’s eyes Joseph and Mary were married as husband and wife. Jesus said “ What God has joined together let no man separated them apart. According to the law of Moses, if a man and a woman live together without marriage certificate that is fornication and they could be in great trouble with the laws of the land and God 2000 years ago. Joseph and Mary were Old Test. Law of God abiding God fearing people. Even we don’t read or see their marriage certificate, in God’s eyes they were married as husband and wife. Like you wrote Joseph and Mary didn't want to go down in family tree history as fornicators!
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Jun 29, 2024 10:27:32 GMT -5
Now there are some very loose numbers here. What do you mean by "you have to be cleared in what period of time frame? Here's a link to some more figures. www.advocatesforthetruth.com/statsThere is also a spreadsheet somewhere on the net which lists individual cases. I currently cannot find it but the above link is an accurate summary of it. Thanks, I would like to read the spreadsheet of the individual cases. Very sad, indeed. The overseers around the world must come together and United to get tough on CSA/SA in our ministry and fellowship. Too much pains and sufferings for the friends and their children have been going on for too long, time to put an end to it.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 29, 2024 13:27:07 GMT -5
Here's a link to some more figures. www.advocatesforthetruth.com/statsThere is also a spreadsheet somewhere on the net which lists individual cases. I currently cannot find it but the above link is an accurate summary of it. Thanks, I would like to read the spreadsheet of the individual cases. Very sad, indeed. The overseers around the world must come together and United to get tough on CSA/SA in our ministry and fellowship. Too much pains and sufferings for the friends and their children have been going on for too long, time to put an end to it. The overseers around the world are already united. It is a prerequsite to being an overseer that one has to be corrupt and immoral. Don't expect anything to change other than some of them will be given an address not to their liking.
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Jun 29, 2024 14:27:58 GMT -5
Thanks, I would like to read the spreadsheet of the individual cases. Very sad, indeed. The overseers around the world must come together and United to get tough on CSA/SA in our ministry and fellowship. Too much pains and sufferings for the friends and their children have been going on for too long, time to put an end to it. The overseers around the world are already united. It is a prerequsite to being an overseer that one has to be corrupt and immoral. Don't expect anything to change other than some of them will be given an address not to their liking. There are good and godly overseers out there but, right now there are too many corrupt and bad overseers, they are over power the good ones… These older generation of corrupt overseers eventually will die and new crop of good overseers will take over, hopefully they learn from the previous corrupt overseers mistakes and try NOT to follow that ungodly behaviors paths or they will end up in prison this time.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 29, 2024 14:43:03 GMT -5
The overseers around the world are already united. It is a prerequsite to being an overseer that one has to be corrupt and immoral. Don't expect anything to change other than some of them will be given an address not to their liking. There are good and godly overseers out there but, right now there are too many corrupt and bad overseers, they are over power the good ones… These older generation of corrupt overseers eventually will die and new crop of good overseers will take over, hopefully they learn from the previous corrupt overseers mistakes and try NOT to follow that ungodly behaviors paths or they will end up in prison this time. I suspect you don't get it. It is a requirement of an overseer to be corrupt and immoral. Religion takes second place and is only a front for their real activity.
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Jun 29, 2024 15:05:30 GMT -5
There are good and godly overseers out there but, right now there are too many corrupt and bad overseers, they are over power the good ones… These older generation of corrupt overseers eventually will die and new crop of good overseers will take over, hopefully they learn from the previous corrupt overseers mistakes and try NOT to follow that ungodly behaviors paths or they will end up in prison this time. I suspect you don't get it. It is a requirement of an overseer to be corrupt and immoral. Religion takes second place and is only a front for their real activity. Sorry, I disagree 100% it is a requirement of an overseer to be corrupt and immoral.
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Post by Pragmatic on Jun 29, 2024 17:19:48 GMT -5
They came together in Singapore last year - nice cheap place to get to for all! Not. Just about everything in Singapore is expensive. The next layer of overseers coming through the ranks are basically no different to the old layer. It's like layers of an onion....you eatpeeling the layers back, and underneath, it's still onion, and makes the eyes water!
We have seen this play out in Australia and the India sagas.
Another example would be the creation of the ausnzinfo.com website which was disingenuously presented as a bona fide reporting tool, when in fact it was to assuage the 'egg on the face' for the declination of the application to join the Australian redress scheme.
Rumour has it that some of the Advisory Group that helped with all of this have now quit.
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Post by Mary on Jun 29, 2024 18:03:28 GMT -5
They came together in Singapore last year - nice cheap place to get to for all! Not. Just about everything in Singapore is expensive. The next layer of overseers coming through the ranks are basically no different to the old layer. It's like layers of an onion....you eatpeeling the layers back, and underneath, it's still onion, and makes the eyes water! We have seen this play out in Australia and the India sagas. Another example would be the creation of the ausnzinfo.com website which was disingenuously presented as a bona fide reporting tool, when in fact it was to assuage the 'egg on the face' for the declination of the application to join the Australian redress scheme. Rumour has it that some of the Advisory Group that helped with all of this have now quit. There is already the Brave Truth NZ & Australian website. The ausnzinfo.com (2x2) website is misleading. It gives the impression that it is an education site on sexual abuse for people in NZ and Australia. It is not until you read deeper into it that it uses the word fellowship but gives no indication of what fellowship it is. It seems more like a recruitment exercise to get unsuspecting members to join their fellowship.
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Post by Pragmatic on Jun 29, 2024 22:41:13 GMT -5
They came together in Singapore last year - nice cheap place to get to for all! Not. Just about everything in Singapore is expensive. The next layer of overseers coming through the ranks are basically no different to the old layer. It's like layers of an onion....you eatpeeling the layers back, and underneath, it's still onion, and makes the eyes water! We have seen this play out in Australia and the India sagas. Another example would be the creation of the ausnzinfo.com website which was disingenuously presented as a bona fide reporting tool, when in fact it was to assuage the 'egg on the face' for the declination of the application to join the Australian redress scheme. Rumour has it that some of the Advisory Group that helped with all of this have now quit. There is already the Brave Truth NZ & Australian website. The ausnzinfo.com (2x2) website is misleading. It gives the impression that it is an education site on sexual abuse for people in NZ and Australia. It is not until you read deeper into it that it uses the word fellowship but gives no indication of what fellowship it is. It seems more like a recruitment exercise to get unsuspecting members to join their fellowship. It meets no SEO criteria, and therefore cannot be found in any Google rankings, last I checked. It is more like an Intranet site. If they were wanting to get fish on the line, I would have thought they would have put in at least six words into the Google search criteria.
I see the whole exercise as a sham and a tool to try and fool the Australian authorities and the church laity in order to be accepted for partial admittance to the re-dress scheme.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 30, 2024 3:19:33 GMT -5
Certainly NOT all of them. Christians are supposed to believe Mary was a virgin and Joseph was not the father. So she was. We are not told anything about the wedding, so there is no proof. But you are allowed to believe whatever you want -- some people believe they have proof the earth is flat. That's very possible. It's perfectly logical to think and/or believe that. It's comforting to believe that. But there's NO marriage certificate to PROVE it. You understand that? You can think and believe whatever brings you comfort. You MAY be right. I have not given it much thought. But if they were not married, they'd probably not be the oldy bastards in their family tree. ~~ Nathan wrote: Thanks, Bob for sharing your understanding. In God’s eyes Joseph and Mary were married as husband and wife. Jesus said “ What God has joined together let no man separated them apart. According to the law of Moses, if a man and a woman live together without marriage certificate that is fornication and they could be in great trouble with the laws of the land and God 2000 years ago. Joseph and Mary were Old Test. Law of God abiding God fearing people. Even we don’t read or see their marriage certificate, in God’s eyes they were married as husband and wife. Like you wrote Joseph and Mary didn't want to go down in family tree history as fornicators! Like you wrote Joseph and Mary didn't want to go down in family tree history as fornicators!This is why no one likes talking to you. I DID NOT WRITE anything resembling that -- you just made up something and said I wrote it.
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nathan2
Royal Member
Nathan again
50%
Posts: 4,263
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Post by nathan2 on Jun 30, 2024 4:00:49 GMT -5
Certainly NOT all of them. Christians are supposed to believe Mary was a virgin and Joseph was not the father. So she was. We are not told anything about the wedding, so there is no proof. But you are allowed to believe whatever you want -- some people believe they have proof the earth is flat. That's very possible. It's perfectly logical to think and/or believe that. It's comforting to believe that. But there's NO marriage certificate to PROVE it. You understand that? You can think and believe whatever brings you comfort. You MAY be right. I have not given it much thought. But if they were not married, they'd probably not be the oldy bastards in their family tree. ~~ Nathan wrote: Thanks, Bob for sharing your understanding. In God’s eyes Joseph and Mary were married as husband and wife. Jesus said “ What God has joined together let no man separated them apart. According to the law of Moses, if a man and a woman live together without marriage certificate that is fornication and they could be in great trouble with the laws of the land and God 2000 years ago. Joseph and Mary were Old Test. Law of God abiding God fearing people. Even we don’t read or see their marriage certificate, in God’s eyes they were married as husband and wife. Like you wrote Joseph and Mary didn't want to go down in family tree history as fornicators! Bob, didn’t you write the above post “If they were NOT Married, the would probably not be oldly bastards in their family tree.”
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