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Post by Admin on Mar 14, 2024 22:42:25 GMT -5
Judy Scheller leaves the work
March 12, 2024
My dear brothers and sisters,
After much prayer and letting the Spirit of God search my heart and motives, sadly, I feel I must step aside from my place in the Ministry. I cannot be a part of a ministry that supports the pedophiles and continually ignores the victims of child sexual abuse and other forms of abuse. I am not stepping aside from God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit or His people or the victims of abuse, but just the Ministry.
My health is good, and my years in the Ministry have been dear to my heart. I have been very glad to labour among you on the South Island these past two years.
With many thanks for all you have been to me.
Judy
(At least Judy clarifies she hasn't "left the work for health reasons". Wings notes that Judy is from BC Canada, and has been a friend of CSA survivors since at least the 1980’s. Judy is a widely loved and respected person, and was a senior sister worker.)
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Post by guest8 on Mar 14, 2024 22:47:48 GMT -5
Judy is a beautiful person.
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Post by fixit on Mar 16, 2024 23:28:02 GMT -5
The following two statements are not always compatible...
"When you profess it means you're accepting the ministry, and when you're baptised it means the ministry is accepting you".
"For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God" (Romans 8:14).
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Post by Pragmatic on Mar 17, 2024 1:06:53 GMT -5
The first statement should not be a happening occurrence, of course. Paul said no such thing to the Ethiopian Eunuch, as an example.
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Post by Pragmatic on Mar 17, 2024 1:12:54 GMT -5
When I read Judy’ letter, I felt quite sad for her.
If you take all the perpetrators with charges hanging over them, and put them together, they would make a large convention all by themselves.
At last count it was over 700 perpetrators, and possibly in excess of 5000 charges, just in the US and Canada alone.
In Australia and NZ it is believed to be around 150.
The offending rate in the Catholic Church is estimated to be around 7%. In the 2x2, it is estimated to be around 17%. Yup, more than twice the rate of the Cathlolic Church in God’s only true way! I say that with some degree of cynicism.
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Post by ForeverFree on Mar 17, 2024 2:15:03 GMT -5
When I read Judy’ letter, I felt quite sad for her. If you take all the perpetrators with charges hanging over them, and put them together, they would make a large convention all by themselves. At last count it was over 700 perpetrators, and possibly in excess of 5000 charges, just in the US and Canada alone. In Australia and NZ it is believed to be around 150. The offending rate in the Catholic Church is estimated to be around 7%. In the 2x2, it is estimated to be around 17%. Yup, more than twice the rate of the Cathlolic Church in God’s only true way! I say that with some degree of cynicism. I remember in the '80s and '90s at the height of the exposure of abuse within the Catholic Church, and the discussions around the abuse. I remember sitting in 2x2 homes as they laughed and cracked jokes about it, never imagining that they would one day face the same demons. Karma! |
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Post by themaninthemirror on Mar 17, 2024 3:14:37 GMT -5
When I read Judy’ letter, I felt quite sad for her. If you take all the perpetrators with charges hanging over them, and put them together, they would make a large convention all by themselves. At last count it was over 700 perpetrators, and possibly in excess of 5000 charges, just in the US and Canada alone. In Australia and NZ it is believed to be around 150. The offending rate in the Catholic Church is estimated to be around 7%. In the 2x2, it is estimated to be around 17%. Yup, more than twice the rate of the Cathlolic Church in God’s only true way! I say that with some degree of cynicism. Based on what you have said, there have been 880 friends in Australia and NZ since the 1950s to now 2024 (74 years) and in the USA 4,700? If 17% are offenders. Maybe you are talking about a subset? This seems to be incorrect? |
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Post by Dan on Mar 17, 2024 13:03:42 GMT -5
Judy Scheller leaves the workMarch 12, 2024 My dear brothers and sisters, After much prayer and letting the Spirit of God search my heart and motives, sadly, I feel I must step aside from my place in the Ministry. I cannot be a part of a ministry that supports the pedophiles and continually ignores the victims of child sexual abuse and other forms of abuse. I am not stepping aside from God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit or His people or the victims of abuse, but just the Ministry. My health is good, and my years in the Ministry have been dear to my heart. I have been very glad to labour among you on the South Island these past two years. With many thanks for all you have been to me. Judy (At least Judy clarifies she hasn't "left the work for health reasons". Wings notes that Judy is from BC Canada, and has been a friend of CSA survivors since at least the 1980’s. Judy is a widely loved and respected person, and was a senior sister worker.)
Gotta wonder about all the trepidation that may have gone into a decision like that? I mean, these Workers surrender their lives to a ministry they believe is 100% correct, so how do they unwind that dedication? What thought process convinces them to abandon an entire church because of the bad conduct of some? I'm sure its something that many Worker's have second guessed themselves about and have wrestled with. She sounds let down by people she held in high esteem, but assures us she's still a believer.
Why not stick it out and work to correct the problem instead of running for cover? Her faith in people seems to be her stumbling block. I suspect she's convinced herself that its not the only correct Way? Gotta be tough getting the ladder kicked-out from under you, but I guess there comes a point when the bad overwhelms the good? It ends with a nasty divorce.
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Post by guest8 on Mar 17, 2024 14:07:34 GMT -5
So judgemental in something you really know little about.
Judy is 83 and given her heart and soul for many years into the ministry. Including supporting CSA victims... plus. She owes nobody anything IMO.
When you've got the likes of Dale Schulz and Merlin Affleck ( they should get the boot) & others running the ministry, I would not blame any worker over there, not wanting to be part of it.
If you read her words carefully you should of noticed "I am not stepping aside from God, Jesus, the holy spirit or his people or the victims of abuse, but just the ministry".
And no nasty divorce as you put it but an obvious dignified exit.
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Post by Pragmatic on Mar 17, 2024 14:36:47 GMT -5
I have been told that Judy is not a liberal, but in fact quite conservative, and is reacting purely to the issue of CSA and SA handling within the ministry.
Remember the saying, "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely", and that is what some are up against, and quite simply cannot just try and change things from within any longer. Everyone has their limits.
Guest8 is right, and some in the church that I am in contact with over there, are saying the same things. Particularly regarding Schulz.
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Post by SharonArnold on Mar 17, 2024 18:59:09 GMT -5
The following two statements are not always compatible... "When you profess it means you're accepting the ministry, and when you're baptised it means the ministry is accepting you". "For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God" (Romans 8:14). Are they ever compatible? My bet is no. |
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Post by fixit on Mar 17, 2024 19:31:42 GMT -5
Judy Scheller leaves the workMarch 12, 2024 My dear brothers and sisters, After much prayer and letting the Spirit of God search my heart and motives, sadly, I feel I must step aside from my place in the Ministry. I cannot be a part of a ministry that supports the pedophiles and continually ignores the victims of child sexual abuse and other forms of abuse. I am not stepping aside from God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit or His people or the victims of abuse, but just the Ministry. My health is good, and my years in the Ministry have been dear to my heart. I have been very glad to labour among you on the South Island these past two years. With many thanks for all you have been to me. Judy (At least Judy clarifies she hasn't "left the work for health reasons". Wings notes that Judy is from BC Canada, and has been a friend of CSA survivors since at least the 1980’s. Judy is a widely loved and respected person, and was a senior sister worker.) Gotta wonder about all the trepidation that may have gone into a decision like that? I mean, these Workers surrender their lives to a ministry they believe is 100% correct, so how do they unwind that dedication? What thought process convinces them to abandon an entire church because of the bad conduct of some? I'm sure its something that many Worker's have second guessed themselves about and have wrestled with. She sounds let down by people she held in high esteem, but assures us she's still a believer. Why not stick it out and work to correct the problem instead of running for cover? Her faith in people seems to be her stumbling block. I suspect she's convinced herself that its not the only correct Way? Gotta be tough getting the ladder kicked-out from under you, but I guess there comes a point when the bad overwhelms the good? It ends with a nasty divorce.
So you're ready to come back and help fix the church? |
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nathan2
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Nathan again
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Post by nathan2 on Mar 17, 2024 20:37:50 GMT -5
Gotta wonder about all the trepidation that may have gone into a decision like that? I mean, these Workers surrender their lives to a ministry they believe is 100% correct, so how do they unwind that dedication? What thought process convinces them to abandon an entire church because of the bad conduct of some? I'm sure it’s something that many Worker's have second guessed themselves about and have wrestled with. She sounds let down by people she held in high esteem, but assures us she's still a believer. Why not stick it out and work to correct the problem instead of running for cover? Her faith in people seems to be her stumbling block. I suspect she's convinced herself that it’s not the only correct Way? Gotta be tough getting the ladder kicked-out from under you, but I guess there comes a point when the bad overwhelms the good? It ends with a nasty divorce.
So you're ready to come back and help fix the church? Dan , please come back! Your sisters, Wally, and myself 🙏 and welcome you back with open arms. 🥰👏 You have a better understanding of the scriptures more than many of the friends and some workers! 👍You can be the Internet worker spreading the good news, the teachings of Jesus Christ.. |
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Post by fixit on Mar 18, 2024 13:40:39 GMT -5
The following two statements are not always compatible... "When you profess it means you're accepting the ministry, and when you're baptised it means the ministry is accepting you". "For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God" (Romans 8:14). Are they ever compatible? My bet is no. If they are not compatible, one of them has to go. |
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Post by SharonArnold on Mar 18, 2024 16:52:43 GMT -5
Are they ever compatible? My bet is no. If they are not compatible, one of them has to go. Nearly 3 decades ago, I chose the one: "For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God" (Romans 8:14) It seemed right to me then. It still does. I have never looked back, never had a single moment of regret. A rock-solid choice for me. |
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Post by Dan on Mar 18, 2024 22:13:22 GMT -5
Gotta wonder about all the trepidation that may have gone into a decision like that? I mean, these Workers surrender their lives to a ministry they believe is 100% correct, so how do they unwind that dedication? What thought process convinces them to abandon an entire church because of the bad conduct of some? I'm sure its something that many Worker's have second guessed themselves about and have wrestled with. She sounds let down by people she held in high esteem, but assures us she's still a believer. Why not stick it out and work to correct the problem instead of running for cover? Her faith in people seems to be her stumbling block. I suspect she's convinced herself that its not the only correct Way? Gotta be tough getting the ladder kicked-out from under you, but I guess there comes a point when the bad overwhelms the good? It ends with a nasty divorce.
So you're ready to come back and help fix the church?
No... I left for different reasons, doctrinal issues that I could never fix. But if I believed it was the only true way and the only path to heaven, I would have definitely stuck it out even with perverts in our midst.
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Post by fixit on Mar 19, 2024 4:19:19 GMT -5
People should be drawn to the christian life you live not a structure. The door should be open for interested folk to attend study mtgs and choices can be made from there re joining the fellowship. Why join? Steve Blubaugh attends a fellowship that no one can join. They don't accept members. |
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Post by elizabethcoleman on Mar 19, 2024 6:37:26 GMT -5
People should be drawn to the christian life you live not a structure. The door should be open for interested folk to attend study mtgs and choices can be made from there re joining the fellowship. Why join? Steve Blubaugh attends a fellowship that no one can join. They don't accept members. Which I guess also means you can't get excommunicated / kicked out. Which raises lots of interesting questions about the Two-by-Twos, really. According to them, they are not an organisation, so what is there to join? They are, apparently, just a non-denominational group of people with no ordained ministers or church buildings or name. And yet the non-ordained ministers of this no-name non-organisation seem to have absolute control over who is a member and who is not. Almost like they were actually an organisation and denomination all along... |
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Mar 19, 2024 8:30:07 GMT -5
Why join? Steve Blubaugh attends a fellowship that no one can join. They don't accept members. Which I guess also means you can't get excommunicated / kicked out. Which raises lots of interesting questions about the Two-by-Twos, really. According to them, they are not an organisation, so what is there to join? They are, apparently, just a non-denominational group of people with no ordained ministers or church buildings or name. And yet the non-ordained ministers of this no-name non-organisation seem to have absolute control over who is a member and who is not. Almost like they were actually an organisation and denomination all along... I read SteveB. Test. It was quite interesting, he remembered many experienced in great details. Steve experience came from mostly the east coast and Mid-west states Adm. I knew a few of the workers he mentioned in his story. I was mainly on the West coast Adm. when I was in the work from 1986-93. We followed his journey on TMB after he left the work! I believe is still on the TMB archive. The 2x2s workers are NOT ordained by the religious organization Bible Seminary school but ordain by the Godhead= God the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit just like in the gospels ( the 12 apostles, the 70, Paul, Timothy, Silas, Titus, Luke, John Mark and so through down the ages to now) and in the book of Acts. Jesus Christ 2x2 Itinerant ministry did NOT lay dormant for 1800 years then it was revived by William Irvine in 1898! According to Jesus and the apostles teachings His 2x2 apostolic New Testament ministry and church has always been on the earth since God the Father and Christ established or set it up in Matthew 10 and Luke 10 and in the book of Acts and through the centuries. Jesus said to the apostles in Matthew 16 “Upon this Rock. I will BUILT my Church and the gates of HELL shall NOT defeat it.” We read in Rev. chapters 11 and 12 God and Christ protect their New Test. Ministry and the church from being wipe out by their enemies, 1800 years by the RCC, 500 years by the Protestant denominations, and the ex-2x2 movement/Organization the last 100 years. Paul who was an enemy of Christ wrote this from his own experience For we can’t do anything against the Truth of God but only for the Truth. The more people stomp out the fire 🔥 with their feet, they help to SPREAD out the fire to all the world. You are helping God and Christ to Spread His Truth and Way as a witness to all the world either in a bad/negative or in good ways. Jesus said in Matthew 24:14 This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached to ALL nations, for a witness unto them then shall come the end of the Gentiles era of opportunity in hearing/reading the gospel message of their Salvation. God the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit/Triune God has been given the Gentiles 2000 years in hearing the gospel of their Salvation, but the time is coming to a close very soon for the gentiles nations and people. The New chapter of 1000 years reign of Chris/2nd Coming must begin, this Gentiles era of hearing/believing in the gospel invitation must come to an end before the Next chapter to start. Peter wrote God’s judgment must BEGIN at the House hold of God First, if it begins with us, what will shall the outcome be for those OBEY not the gospel of God?Read I Peter 4:17-18. |
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Post by fixit on Mar 19, 2024 13:36:35 GMT -5
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nathan2
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Nathan again
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Post by nathan2 on Mar 19, 2024 14:01:26 GMT -5
I will say this… Many of the current overseers are NOT leading by the Spirit of God. The FBI must put some of these overseers in prison like they did with Jerome F. and his co-worker in jail for NOT reporting a CSA worker on his staff to the authority. This is NOT getting any better, it’s hard to teach an old dog new tricks. What the friends can do is to NOT welcome the CSA alleged workers or the overseers who supported them, into their homes for the nights. Once these older generation of overseers, who tolerate for CSA Workers, church elders and the friends die of, only the new generation of overseers can change to Zero tolerance for CSA workers in the ministry and fellowship. |
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Post by SharonArnold on Mar 19, 2024 14:43:22 GMT -5
People should be drawn to the christian life you live not a structure. The door should be open for interested folk to attend study mtgs and choices can be made from there re joining the fellowship. Why join? Steve Blubaugh attends a fellowship that no one can join. They don't accept members. Thanks for posting this. Very interesting to get a video glimpse into the (somewhat) legendary Steve Blublaugh. #Respect for him and for David Alink. |
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Post by SharonArnold on Mar 19, 2024 14:53:23 GMT -5
I will say this… Many of the current overseers are NOT leading by the Spirit of God. The FBI must put some of these overseers in prison like they did with Jerome F. and his co-worker in jail for NOT reporting a CSA worker on his staff to the authority. This is NOT getting any better, it’s hard to teach an old dog new tricks. What the friends can do is to NOT welcome the CSA alleged workers or the overseers who supported them, into their homes for the nights. Once these older generation of overseers, who tolerate for CSA Workers, church elders and the friends die of, only the new generation of overseers can change to Zero tolerance for CSA workers in the ministry and fellowship. The problem is that the older generation of overseers has been teaching the younger generation, so I am not sure that the older generation dying off is necessarily a solution. I know a number of both the older and younger generation personally. For the younger generation, they are being confronted with situations and complexities for which they are far from being equipped. I feel for them, and hesitate to judge them. At least the normal way I would tend to judge people. But, yes, Zero Tolerance should have ever been the only choice. Why wasn't it? (I dare you to go down that rabbit hole. (I've been there and back. The results are not pretty.)) |
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nathan2
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Nathan again
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Post by nathan2 on Mar 19, 2024 15:25:50 GMT -5
I will say this… Many of the current overseers are NOT leading by the Spirit of God. The FBI must put some of these overseers in prison like they did with Jerome F. and his co-worker in jail for NOT reporting a CSA worker on his staff to the authority. This is NOT getting any better, it’s hard to teach an old dog new tricks. What the friends can do is to NOT welcome the CSA alleged workers or the overseers who supported them, into their homes for the nights. Once these older generation of overseers, who tolerate for CSA Workers, church elders and the friends die of, only the new generation of overseers can change to Zero tolerance for CSA workers in the ministry and fellowship. The problem is that the older generation of overseers has been teaching the younger generation, so I am not sure that the older generation dying off is necessarily a solution. I know a number of both the older and younger generation personally. For the younger generation, they are being confronted with situations and complexities for which they are far from being equipped. I feel for them, and hesitate to judge them. At least the normal way I would tend to judge people. But, yes, Zero Tolerance should have ever been the only choice. Why wasn't it? (I dare you to go down that rabbit hole. (I've been there and back. The results are not pretty.)) Let us wait and see… I say give the next generation of overseers a chance! I believe the next generation of overseers DO NOT want to Repeat the last generation of overseers horrendous, terrible 😢 mistakes in mishandling CSA situation. They don’t want to follow their Older generation of overseers Bad, Bad examples for sure! 👎I know the workers read what is going on and post on the Internet of the current overseers crimes of stalling to put an end to CSA for a long, long time. The new generation of Overseers will say, ENOUGH is ENOUGH with this nonsense! and put these older overseers for early retirement. |
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Post by fixit on Mar 19, 2024 15:44:08 GMT -5
I will say this… Many of the current overseers are NOT leading by the Spirit of God. The FBI must put some of these overseers in prison like they did with Jerome F. and his co-worker in jail for NOT reporting a CSA worker on his staff to the authority. This is NOT getting any better, it’s hard to teach an old dog new tricks. What the friends can do is to NOT welcome the CSA alleged workers or the overseers who supported them, into their homes for the nights. Once these older generation of overseers, who tolerate for CSA Workers, church elders and the friends die of, only the new generation of overseers can change to Zero tolerance for CSA workers in the ministry and fellowship. Are you saying that the overseers ordain the workers? My question was: Did the Godhead= God the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit re-ordain Luther Raine last Saturday? |
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Post by fixit on Mar 19, 2024 16:08:16 GMT -5
The problem is that the older generation of overseers has been teaching the younger generation, so I am not sure that the older generation dying off is necessarily a solution. I know a number of both the older and younger generation personally. For the younger generation, they are being confronted with situations and complexities for which they are far from being equipped. I feel for them, and hesitate to judge them. At least the normal way I would tend to judge people. But, yes, Zero Tolerance should have ever been the only choice. Why wasn't it? (I dare you to go down that rabbit hole. (I've been there and back. The results are not pretty.)) Zero tolerance should always have applied, but the ministry relies on volunteers. There are so few volunteers that scandalous behavior has been tolerated and hidden to keep the numbers up. But there's a big problem with that: The fellowship relies on trust. If we can't trust the ministry to do the right thing (and obviously we can't) then the whole thing falls apart. When the ministry could control the flow of information it sort of worked, but the flow of information can no longer be controlled. |
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Post by help on Mar 19, 2024 16:26:17 GMT -5
Here are the reasons to consider leaving your church.
You Haven't Found Community (but you've tried).
The Church Isn't Doing Anything for People Outside The Church.
There is Abuse of Power in the Church Leadership.
You Don't Agree With the Vision.
You Don't Trust the Church With Your Money.
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Mar 19, 2024 16:30:17 GMT -5
I will say this… Many of the current overseers are NOT leading by the Spirit of God. The FBI must put some of these overseers in prison like they did with Jerome F. and his co-worker in jail for NOT reporting a CSA worker on his staff to the authority. This is NOT getting any better, it’s hard to teach an old dog new tricks. What the friends can do is to NOT welcome the CSA alleged workers or the overseers who supported them, into their homes for the nights. Once these older generation of overseers, who tolerate for CSA Workers, church elders and the friends die of, only the new generation of overseers can change to Zero tolerance for CSA workers in the ministry and fellowship. Are you saying that the overseers ordain the workers? My question was: Did the Godhead= God the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit re-ordain Luther Raine last Saturday? Why? Don’t you ask God that question, that is above my pay grade. |
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