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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 24, 2024 19:19:09 GMT -5
It may even be his grandathers axe or even the axe that has been used by Adam. True. If the 2x2 make all the changes to fix the system as suggested, they might as well just shut it down and let the people pick a church which best fits them. However reading what others posted, I suspect there is too much big money from bequeathed estates, trust funds, unused cash flow, and who knows what else around to kill the cash cow. My guess is there will be a lot of hand ringing & hand waving but in the end nothing will materially change. Fewer people means there is less people to share with, and fewer who complain. Willis Propp once opined that they could afford to LOSE a certain number of followers.
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Post by themaninthemirror on Mar 25, 2024 1:25:41 GMT -5
Are you going to address my point? Where did 17% come from. I have seen a list of Alberta for example - 324 workers since 1920s. That means according to you - 60 of them are abusers or can you clarify? We have people saying that there have been 200-300,000 members since the 1920s, you are saying 40,000 - 60,000 of them are abusers? No, we have no idea of the past. All we know is that there are allegations against roughly 17% of the 500+ workers in the US and Canada. (Figures from Jon McClernon) We don’t know exactly the numbers of friends in the US, but there are roughly 700+ allegations against workers, elders and friends in the US. This doesn’t make sense. There are 500 ish workers in the US and Canada right now - are you saying 100 of these have allegations? Over the duration of this analysis (1950s to 2024) there have been at least 2000 possibly way more, workers. I saw a list for Alberta that had 324 workers from 1920 to 2023, so I think it could be closer to 3000 workers and probably at least 120,000 to 140,000 friends (maybe way more). I understand there is a huge problem but presenting inaccurate numbers as facts it’s not helping anyone.
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Post by Pragmatic on Mar 25, 2024 2:11:54 GMT -5
You might need to find Jon McClernon's YouTube podcasts, as it was in one of those that he presented the numbers. He is a member of the church, and is in touch with Sheri and Lauren and co.
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Post by fixit on Mar 27, 2024 2:53:37 GMT -5
You might need to find Jon McClernon's YouTube podcasts, as it was in one of those that he presented the numbers. He is a member of the church, and is in touch with Sheri and Lauren and co. For the numbers to mean anything at all we would need to know whether it is: 1. 17% of current workers in the US and Canada 2. 17% of current workers worldwide 3. 17% of people who were in the work in the US and Canada at the time of the offending 4. 17% of people who were in the work worldwide at the time of the offending 5. 17% of something else
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Post by guest8 on Mar 27, 2024 3:07:47 GMT -5
You might need to find Jon McClernon's YouTube podcasts, as it was in one of those that he presented the numbers. He is a member of the church, and is in touch with Sheri and Lauren and co. For the numbers to mean anything at all we would need to know whether it is: 1. 17% of current workers in the US and Canada 2. 17% of current workers worldwide 3. 17% of people who were in the work in the US and Canada at the time of the offending 4. 17% of people who were in the work worldwide at the time of the offending 5. 17% of something else And whether the 17% alleged abusers is inclusive of historical cases/ abusers dead ( which I understand they are) & how many years back? I assume the statistics of workers and friends varies from decade to decade. Could be wrong. How do they calculate how many friends there are worldwide?
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Post by Pragmatic on Mar 27, 2024 5:36:52 GMT -5
For the numbers to mean anything at all we would need to know whether it is: 1. 17% of current workers in the US and Canada 2. 17% of current workers worldwide 3. 17% of people who were in the work in the US and Canada at the time of the offending 4. 17% of people who were in the work worldwide at the time of the offending 5. 17% of something else And whether the 17% alleged abusers is inclusive of historical cases/ abusers dead ( which I understand they are) & how many years back? I assume the statistics of workers and friends varies from decade to decade. Could be wrong. How do they calculate how many friends there are worldwide? Jon's podcast where he went through the statistics seems to have gone from YouTube, as have quite a number. I know he was taking a hiatus while sorting out some issues with his other life-coaching podcasts, but I don't know why some podcasts have gone.
Hi does say in Podcast 9 that 40% of perpetrators are workers. I assume, because he's Canadian, he is referring to US and Canada and the current crop, so I would think option 1.
He does call out workers and overseers by name.
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Post by verna on Mar 27, 2024 20:07:41 GMT -5
And whether the 17% alleged abusers is inclusive of historical cases/ abusers dead ( which I understand they are) & how many years back? I assume the statistics of workers and friends varies from decade to decade. Could be wrong. How do they calculate how many friends there are worldwide? Jon's podcast where he went through the statistics seems to have gone from YouTube, as have quite a number. I know he was taking a hiatus while sorting out some issues with his other life-coaching podcasts, but I don't know why some podcasts have gone.
Hi does say in Podcast 9 that 40% of perpetrators are workers. I assume, because he's Canadian, he is referring to US and Canada and the current crop, so I would think option 1.
He does call out workers and overseers by name.
I’ve been wondering what happened to Jonathon. Haven’t seen or heard anything for a few months it seems. Anybody know?
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Post by Pragmatic on Mar 27, 2024 20:34:01 GMT -5
I think there was an issue with monetisation of his other channels, and he said he would be back when he was able to get it all resolved. There maybe other issues too.
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Post by snow on Mar 28, 2024 12:18:47 GMT -5
My understanding of the 40% of the abusers were workers is current and historical and it's worldwide not just in America. So this covers decades as there are some in their 70's and 80's that have come forward naming their abuser.
500+ abusers have been named and 40% of the 500 + were workers at some point and/or currently.
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Post by xna on Mar 28, 2024 12:36:04 GMT -5
My understanding of the 40% of the abusers were workers is current and historical and it's worldwide not just in America. So this covers decades as there are some in their 70's and 80's that have come forward naming their abuser. 500+ abusers have been named and 40% of the 500 + were workers at some point and/or currently. That's amazing!
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Post by snow on Mar 28, 2024 13:37:38 GMT -5
My understanding of the 40% of the abusers were workers is current and historical and it's worldwide not just in America. So this covers decades as there are some in their 70's and 80's that have come forward naming their abuser. 500+ abusers have been named and 40% of the 500 + were workers at some point and/or currently. That's amazing! Just read on Advocates for the Truth that the number of abusers has risen to over 700 and most of them have more than one allegation so the likelihood of the friends sitting in a meeting with a survivor or even an abuser is quite high. I don't know if this new number still holds true that 40% were/are workers or not. Can't find new stats on it. There were stats that did state that the 2x2 church now out paces the RCC for abusers based on the smaller numbers of members in the 2x2 Edit: Just talked to Shari and she has confirmed it's based on deceased and living workers worldwide.
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Post by Pragmatic on Mar 28, 2024 18:07:34 GMT -5
Thanks Snow. The stat I heard was that it is about double the offending rate of the Catholic Church when comparing workers to priests.
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