nathan2
Royal Member
Nathan again
50%
Posts: 5,258
|
Post by nathan2 on Mar 19, 2024 16:31:26 GMT -5
Which I guess also means you can't get excommunicated / kicked out. Which raises lots of interesting questions about the Two-by-Twos, really. According to them, they are not an organisation, so what is there to join? They are, apparently, just a non-denominational group of people with no ordained ministers or church buildings or name. And yet the non-ordained ministers of this no-name non-organisation seem to have absolute control over who is a member and who is not. Almost like they were actually an organisation and denomination all along... I read SteveB. Test. It was quite interesting, he remembered many experienced in great details. Steve experience came from mostly the east coast and Mid-west states Adm. I knew a few of the workers he mentioned in his story. I was mainly on the West coast Adm. when I was in the work from 1986-93. We followed his journey on TMB after he left the work! I believe is still on the TMB archive. The 2x2s workers are NOT ordained by the religious organization Bible Seminary school but ordain by the Godhead= God the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit just like in the gospels ( the 12 apostles, the 70, Paul, Timothy, Silas, Titus, Luke, John Mark and so through down the ages to now) and in the book of Acts. Jesus Christ 2x2 Itinerant ministry did NOT lay dormant for 1800 years then it was revived by William Irvine in 1898! According to Jesus and the apostles teachings His 2x2 apostolic New Testament ministry and church has always been on the earth since God the Father and Christ established or set it up in Matthew 10 and Luke 10 and in the book of Acts and through the centuries. Jesus said to the apostles in Matthew 16 “Upon this Rock. I will BUILT my Church and the gates of HELL shall NOT defeat it.” We read in Rev. chapters 11 and 12 God and Christ protect their New Test. Ministry and the church from being wipe out by their enemies, 1800 years by the RCC, 500 years by the Protestant denominations, and the ex-2x2 movement/Organization the last 100 years. Paul who was an enemy of Christ wrote this from his own experience For we can’t do anything against the Truth of God but only for the Truth. The more people stomp out the fire 🔥 with their feet, they help to SPREAD out the fire to all the world. You are helping God and Christ to Spread His Truth and Way as a witness to all the world either in a bad/negative or in good ways. Jesus said in Matthew 24:14 This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached to ALL nations, for a witness unto them then shall come the end of the Gentiles era of opportunity in hearing/reading the gospel message of their Salvation. God the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit/Triune God has been given the Gentiles 2000 years in hearing the gospel of their Salvation, but the time is coming to a close very soon for the gentiles nations and people. The New chapter of 1000 years reign of Chris/2nd Coming must begin, this Gentiles era of hearing/believing in the gospel invitation must come to an end before the Next chapter to start. Peter wrote God’s judgment must BEGIN at the House hold of God First, if it begins with us, what will shall the outcome be for those OBEY not the gospel of God?Read I Peter 4:17-18. |
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Mar 19, 2024 16:53:45 GMT -5
Are you saying that the overseers ordain the workers? My question was: Did the Godhead= God the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit re-ordain Luther Raine last Saturday? Why? Don’t you ask God that question, that is above my pay grade. So you preach to us as if you are authoritative, and then when we ask a question you tell us to pray about it. Were you trained to do that? The 2x2s workers are NOT ordained by the religious organization Bible Seminary school but ordain by the Godhead= God the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit just like in the gospels ( the 12 apostles, the 70, Paul, Timothy, Silas, Titus, Luke, John Mark and so through down the ages to now) and in the book of Acts. |
|
|
|
Post by Pragmatic on Mar 19, 2024 17:37:58 GMT -5
Quote: "So you preach to us as if you are authoritative, and then when we ask a question you tell us to pray about it."
And that is the typical workers fob, when they either don't know the answer, or they think you do, and don't want to hear what they will say.
Eg; "Do you think it is right that I should join the local sports team?" Just pray about it brother. They then rely on brainwashing, and confirmation bias to say, "No".
What do you think of the doctrine of Trinitarism?" "Just pray about it, and keep coming to the meetings".
|
|
nathan2
Royal Member
Nathan again
50%
Posts: 5,258
|
Post by nathan2 on Mar 19, 2024 17:41:37 GMT -5
Why? Don’t you ask God that question, that is above my pay grade. So you preach to us as if you are authoritative, and then when we ask a question you tell us to pray about it. Were you trained to do that? The 2x2s workers are NOT ordained by the religious organization Bible Seminary school but ordain by the Godhead= God the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit just like in the gospels ( the 12 apostles, the 70, Paul, Timothy, Silas, Titus, Luke, John Mark and so through down the ages to now) and in the book of Acts. I read the Godhead sent the 12, 70 and others out. I don’t know who Luther is or who sent him out in the work. Jesus said by their fruits ye shall know them. Use your head, fixit and figure it out for yourself. |
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Mar 19, 2024 18:09:27 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Mar 19, 2024 18:30:56 GMT -5
What the friends can do is to NOT welcome the CSA alleged workers or the overseers who supported them, into their homes for the nights. Then the friends get a letter like this one: |
|
nathan2
Royal Member
Nathan again
50%
Posts: 5,258
|
Post by nathan2 on Mar 19, 2024 19:09:04 GMT -5
So, who ordains you as a 2x2 church elder? God or the workers? |
|
nathan2
Royal Member
Nathan again
50%
Posts: 5,258
|
Post by nathan2 on Mar 19, 2024 19:15:19 GMT -5
What the friends can do is to NOT welcome the CSA alleged workers or the overseers who supported them, into their homes for the nights. Then the friends get a letter like this one: Well, the friends have the power who they want to invite into their own homes! without the friends homes, the workers are homeless and sleep 🛌 under a 🌉. |
|
|
|
Post by help on Mar 19, 2024 22:29:42 GMT -5
The structure of the 2x2 Church is very similar to that of the Mafia.
The biggest Mafia boss of all time is widely considered to be Al Capone, who became infamous for his violent and brutal ways. The leadership of the Italian Mafia has always been a hotly contested affair because it has only ever really been about strength and power.
The problems of the 2x2 Church have been caused by allowing Workers to have sole power as el supremos. Control of the church should come from the congregation, via the Elders. The Elders should hire and fire, Workers should not have control of their own employment.
|
|
nathan2
Royal Member
Nathan again
50%
Posts: 5,258
|
Post by nathan2 on Mar 20, 2024 0:44:27 GMT -5
The structure of the 2x2 Church is very similar to that of the Mafia. The biggest Mafia boss of all time is widely considered to be Al Capone, who became infamous for his violent and brutal ways. The leadership of the Italian Mafia has always been a hotly contested affair because it has only ever really been about strength and power. The problems of the 2x2 Church have been caused by allowing Workers to have sole power as el supremos. Control of the church should come from the congregation, via the Elders. The Elders should hire and fire, Workers should not have control of their own employment. Who appointed the elder in the New Test. Church? The apostles/workers. Who appointed the apostles? Christ. Who appointed Christ to earth? God the Father… That is God’s order of thing. |
|
|
|
Post by help on Mar 20, 2024 1:58:42 GMT -5
It was a far different World 2000 years ago. Workers today do not live like the Disciples 2000 years ago. The days of without script or purse are well gone. A far different situation, which needs a proper structure. Times and circumstances change and need to be addressed accordingly, that just makes sense.
We can adapt in a new environment with a growth mindset. This means we must involve approaching the new environment with a positive and optimistic attitude, embracing challenges and mistakes as opportunities for growth and learning, as well as being open to new ideas and perspectives. Sadly, this is what the 2x2 Church has failed to do, it has stagnated in a big way. An organisation, that is not an organisation is fertile ground for corruption and crime.
|
|
|
|
Post by elizabethcoleman on Mar 20, 2024 4:53:55 GMT -5
Which I guess also means you can't get excommunicated / kicked out. Which raises lots of interesting questions about the Two-by-Twos, really. According to them, they are not an organisation, so what is there to join? They are, apparently, just a non-denominational group of people with no ordained ministers or church buildings or name. And yet the non-ordained ministers of this no-name non-organisation seem to have absolute control over who is a member and who is not. Almost like they were actually an organisation and denomination all along... I read SteveB. Test. It was quite interesting, he remembered many experienced in great details. Steve experience came from mostly the east coast and Mid-west states Adm. I knew a few of the workers he mentioned in his story. I was mainly on the West coast Adm. when I was in the work from 1986-93. We followed his journey on TMB after he left the work! I believe is still on the TMB archive. The 2x2s workers are NOT ordained by the religious organization Bible Seminary school but ordain by the Godhead= God the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit just like in the gospels ( the 12 apostles, the 70, Paul, Timothy, Silas, Titus, Luke, John Mark and so through down the ages to now) and in the book of Acts. Jesus Christ 2x2 Itinerant ministry did NOT lay dormant for 1800 years then it was revived by William Irvine in 1898! According to Jesus and the apostles teachings His 2x2 apostolic New Testament ministry and church has always been on the earth since God the Father and Christ established or set it up in Matthew 10 and Luke 10 and in the book of Acts and through the centuries. Jesus said to the apostles in Matthew 16 “Upon this Rock. I will BUILT my Church and the gates of HELL shall NOT defeat it.” We read in Rev. chapters 11 and 12 God and Christ protect their New Test. Ministry and the church from being wipe out by their enemies, 1800 years by the RCC, 500 years by the Protestant denominations, and the ex-2x2 movement/Organization the last 100 years. Paul who was an enemy of Christ wrote this from his own experience For we can’t do anything against the Truth of God but only for the Truth. The more people stomp out the fire 🔥 with their feet, they help to SPREAD out the fire to all the world. You are helping God and Christ to Spread His Truth and Way as a witness to all the world either in a bad/negative or in good ways. Jesus said in Matthew 24:14 This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached to ALL nations, for a witness unto them then shall come the end of the Gentiles era of opportunity in hearing/reading the gospel message of their Salvation. God the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit/Triune God has been given the Gentiles 2000 years in hearing the gospel of their Salvation, but the time is coming to a close very soon for the gentiles nations and people. The New chapter of 1000 years reign of Chris/2nd Coming must begin, this Gentiles era of hearing/believing in the gospel invitation must come to an end before the Next chapter to start. Peter wrote God’s judgment must BEGIN at the House hold of God First, if it begins with us, what will shall the outcome be for those OBEY not the gospel of God?Read I Peter 4:17-18. You exhort ony a form of ministry that preaches about itself. I will continue to trust in the cross of Christ. "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." |
|
nathan2
Royal Member
Nathan again
50%
Posts: 5,258
|
Post by nathan2 on Mar 20, 2024 8:47:51 GMT -5
I read SteveB. Test. It was quite interesting, he remembered many experienced in great details. Steve experience came from mostly the east coast and Mid-west states Adm. I knew a few of the workers he mentioned in his story. I was mainly on the West coast Adm. when I was in the work from 1986-93. We followed his journey on TMB after he left the work! I believe is still on the TMB archive. The 2x2s workers are NOT ordained by the religious organization Bible Seminary school but ordain by the Godhead= God the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit just like in the gospels ( the 12 apostles, the 70, Paul, Timothy, Silas, Titus, Luke, John Mark and so through down the ages to now) and in the book of Acts. Jesus Christ 2x2 Itinerant ministry did NOT lay dormant for 1800 years then it was revived by William Irvine in 1898! According to Jesus and the apostles teachings His 2x2 apostolic New Testament ministry and church has always been on the earth since God the Father and Christ established or set it up in Matthew 10 and Luke 10 and in the book of Acts and through the centuries. Jesus said to the apostles in Matthew 16 “Upon this Rock. I will BUILT my Church and the gates of HELL shall NOT defeat it.” We read in Rev. chapters 11 and 12 God and Christ protect their New Test. Ministry and the church from being wipe out by their enemies, 1800 years by the RCC, 500 years by the Protestant denominations, and the ex-2x2 movement/Organization the last 100 years. Paul who was an enemy of Christ wrote this from his own experience For we can’t do anything against the Truth of God but only for the Truth. The more people stomp out the fire 🔥 with their feet, they help to SPREAD out the fire to all the world. You are helping God and Christ to Spread His Truth and Way as a witness to all the world either in a bad/negative or in good ways. Jesus said in Matthew 24:14 This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached to ALL nations, for a witness unto them then shall come the end of the Gentiles era of opportunity in hearing/reading the gospel message of their Salvation. God the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit/Triune God has been given the Gentiles 2000 years in hearing the gospel of their Salvation, but the time is coming to a close very soon for the gentiles nations and people. The New chapter of 1000 years reign of Chris/2nd Coming must begin, this Gentiles era of hearing/believing in the gospel invitation must come to an end before the Next chapter to start. Peter wrote God’s judgment must BEGIN at the House hold of God First, if it begins with us, what will shall the outcome be for those OBEY not the gospel of God?Read I Peter 4:17-18. You exhort ony a form of ministry that preaches about itself. I will continue to trust in the cross of Christ. "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." Which form or kind of Ministry that Paul preached and followed? It was NOT a Pharisee method of ministry but Jesus Christ 2x2 apostolic Itinerant New Test. Ministry. When Paul wrote the words you quoted it, which kind of ministry was he promoting or labor/flag under the Pharisee or Christ’s name. Why, did Paul reject the Pharisee sect once he was so hearty willing to kill Jesus followers and the apostles. Jesus appeared and told Saul he was fighting and kicking against God’s people just like fighting against God. The Pharisee ministry lead Saul to an eternal dead end road! Paul recognized that then he had a changed of heart and ministry. He became one of the most useful apostles of Christ in all ages. |
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Mar 20, 2024 13:08:27 GMT -5
You exhort ony a form of ministry that preaches about itself. I will continue to trust in the cross of Christ. "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." Which form or kind of Ministry that Paul preached and followed? It was NOT a Pharisee method of ministry but Jesus Christ 2x2 apostolic Itinerant New Test. Ministry. When Paul wrote the words you quoted it, which kind of ministry was he promoting or labor/flag under the Pharisee or Christ’s name. Why, did Paul reject the Pharisee sect once he was so hearty willing to kill Jesus followers and the apostles. Jesus appeared and told Saul he was fighting and kicking against God’s people just like fighting against God. The Pharisee ministry lead Saul to an eternal dead end road! Paul recognized that then he had a changed of heart and ministry. He became one of the most useful apostles of Christ in all ages. We need to decide for ourselves what is bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit. A Tree and Its Fruit Matt 7:15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns or figs from thistles? 17 In the same way, every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will know them by their fruits. Concerning Self-Deception 21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; go away from me, you who behave lawlessly.’ |
|
nathan2
Royal Member
Nathan again
50%
Posts: 5,258
|
Post by nathan2 on Mar 20, 2024 13:14:42 GMT -5
Which form or kind of Ministry that Paul preached and followed? It was NOT a Pharisee method of ministry but Jesus Christ 2x2 apostolic Itinerant New Test. Ministry. When Paul wrote the words you quoted it, which kind of ministry was he promoting or labor/flag under the Pharisee or Christ’s name. Why, did Paul reject the Pharisee sect once he was so hearty willing to kill Jesus followers and the apostles. Jesus appeared and told Saul he was fighting and kicking against God’s people just like fighting against God. The Pharisee ministry lead Saul to an eternal dead end road! Paul recognized that then he had a changed of heart and ministry. He became one of the most useful apostles of Christ in all ages. We need to decide for ourselves what is bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit. A Tree and Its Fruit Matt 7:15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns or figs from thistles? 17 In the same way, every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will know them by their fruits. Concerning Self-Deception 21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; go away from me, you who behave lawlessly.’ Jesus said by the fruits 🍎 they produce in their ministry and lives, that is how people can tell whether they are His TRUE apostles or NOT. |
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Mar 20, 2024 16:43:38 GMT -5
We need to decide for ourselves what is bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit. A Tree and Its Fruit Matt 7:15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns or figs from thistles? 17 In the same way, every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will know them by their fruits. Concerning Self-Deception 21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; go away from me, you who behave lawlessly.’ Jesus said by the fruits 🍎 they produce in their ministry and lives, that is how people can tell whether they are His TRUE apostles or NOT. Jesus said "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits". |
|
|
|
Post by elizabethcoleman on Mar 20, 2024 17:13:46 GMT -5
Jesus said by the fruits 🍎 they produce in their ministry and lives, that is how people can tell whether they are His TRUE apostles or NOT. Yes, I have seen their fruits, and they are not good. They have brought forth bad fruit - legalism, righteousness by their own works, laying heavy burdens upon people, committing many sins and covering up the sins of many more while persecuting the victims. And making themselves intermediaries between God and man. Paul went forth preaching the gospel of Christ crucified - his ministry bears NO resemblance to the short term instructions Jesus gave to his apostle in Matthew 10. Read through those instructions again carefully - which ones did Paul continue to follow? Preaching only to the Jews? Preaching "The Kingdom is near"? No, but the true gospel goes out into all the world, proclaming "Jesus is the Way" with no restrictions. Your preachers only preach "We are the way, come obey OUR rules". Your worship of the ministry has blinded you to the message being preached. If they do not even preach the gospel, their method is worse than useless, it is heresy. |
|
nathan2
Royal Member
Nathan again
50%
Posts: 5,258
|
Post by nathan2 on Mar 20, 2024 17:38:44 GMT -5
Jesus said by the fruits 🍎 they produce in their ministry and lives, that is how people can tell whether they are His TRUE apostles or NOT. Yes, I have seen their fruits, and they are not good. They have brought forth bad fruit - legalism, righteousness by their own works, laying heavy burdens upon people, committing many sins and covering up the sins of many more while persecuting the victims. And making themselves intermediaries between God and man. Paul went forth preaching the gospel of Christ crucified - his ministry bears NO resemblance to the short term instructions Jesus gave to his apostle in Matthew 10. Read through those instructions again carefully - which ones did Paul continue to follow? Preaching only to the Jews? Preaching "The Kingdom is near"? No, but the true gospel goes out into all the world, proclaming "Jesus is the Way" with no restrictions. Your preachers only preach "We are the way, come obey OUR rules". Your worship of the ministry has blinded you to the message being preached. If they do not even preach the gospel, their method is worse than useless, it is heresy. In Jesus days, they had Judas Iscariot to deal with. In Paul’s days they had false apostles who taught false doctrines to deal with. In the days of John apostles 5 churches were in bad shapes, some left their first love, sexual immoral happened badly in those days , false teachers entered the church. Jesus Christ told them to REPENT or He will take their names out from the book 📕 of life. We are facing similar problems today as they did in the 1st Century Church! Jesus is telling those who have sinned to REPENT or HE will REMOVE their names from the book 📖 of life. Matthew 10 was the 12 apostles FIRST mission without Jesus. Luke 10 was the 70 their first mission without Jesus to the Jews and children of Israel. He was preparing them all for the GREAT Commission in Matthew 28 to preach the gospel to Jews and to all Gentiles nations to the time of Jesus returns read Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8-9; Romans 10. Paul, Barnabas, Timothy, Titus, Silas and so on mission was to preach to Gentiles nations Acts 11-26…. Today! We have all problems like Jesus, Paul, and John the apostles days. Jesus Christ the same as yesterday, today and forever. The Message Jesus Saves, true Messengers sent by God, the method Jesus 2x2 apostolic Itinerant ministry is the same in every generation until He comes again. Don’t try to fixit or change if it ain’t broken! |
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Mar 20, 2024 18:20:04 GMT -5
Yes, I have seen their fruits, and they are not good. They have brought forth bad fruit - legalism, righteousness by their own works, laying heavy burdens upon people, committing many sins and covering up the sins of many more while persecuting the victims. And making themselves intermediaries between God and man. Paul went forth preaching the gospel of Christ crucified - his ministry bears NO resemblance to the short term instructions Jesus gave to his apostle in Matthew 10. Read through those instructions again carefully - which ones did Paul continue to follow? Preaching only to the Jews? Preaching "The Kingdom is near"? No, but the true gospel goes out into all the world, proclaming "Jesus is the Way" with no restrictions. Your preachers only preach "We are the way, come obey OUR rules". Your worship of the ministry has blinded you to the message being preached. If they do not even preach the gospel, their method is worse than useless, it is heresy. In Jesus days, they had Judas Iscariot to deal with. In Paul’s days they had false apostles who taught false doctrines to deal with. In the days of John apostles 5 churches were in bad shapes, some left their first love, sexual immoral happened badly in those days , false teachers entered the church. Jesus Christ told them to REPENT or He will take their names out from the book 📕 of life. We are facing similar problems today as they did in the 1st Century Church! Jesus is telling those who have sinned to REPENT or HE will REMOVE their names from the book 📖 of life. Matthew 10 was the 12 apostles FIRST mission without Jesus. Luke 10 was the 70 their first mission without Jesus to the Jews and children of Israel. He was preparing them all for the GREAT Commission in Matthew 28 to preach the gospel to Jews and to all Gentiles nations to the time of Jesus returns read Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8-9; Romans 10. Paul, Barnabas, Timothy, Titus, Silas and so on mission was to preach to Gentiles nations Acts 11-26…. Today! We have all problems like Jesus, Paul, and John the apostles days. Jesus Christ the same as yesterday, today and forever. The Message Jesus Saves, true Messengers sent by God, the method Jesus 2x2 apostolic Itinerant ministry is the same in every generation until He comes again. Don’t try to fixit or change if it ain’t broken! But it is broken, and the failure to acknowledge that its broken makes it unfixable. |
|
|
|
Post by Pragmatic on Mar 20, 2024 18:30:28 GMT -5
Elizabeth, that is such a good line. "You exhort only a form of ministry that preaches about itself."
Obviously it is nuanced depending on the workers, but in general, that sums up so much of what the Friends think is The Gospel. The idea of Jesus resurrection being the Good News (Gospel) seems to be only a token nod, with the subliminal message being that Jesus was merely the first Worker, the elder brother, example etc.
|
|
|
|
Post by elizabethcoleman on Mar 20, 2024 19:24:33 GMT -5
Elizabeth, that is such a good line. "You exhort only a form of ministry that preaches about itself."
Obviously it is nuanced depending on the workers, but in general, that sums up so much of what the Friends think is The Gospel. The idea of Jesus resurrection being the Good News (Gospel) seems to be only a token nod, with the subliminal message being that Jesus was merely the first Worker, the elder brother, example etc.
Please let me amend it slightly to "You extol only a form of ministry that preaches about itself". Ironically, as I've said in my White Envelopes story, this is exactly like valuing an empty envelope. Or believing an envelope is as important as, or more important than, the message it carries. |
|
|
|
Post by Pragmatic on Mar 20, 2024 19:58:57 GMT -5
Yup, I even mentioned in a meeting once about people worshiping the container, rather than revering the content. Can't remember if I got an Amen or not !
|
|
|
|
Post by elizabethcoleman on Mar 20, 2024 20:19:26 GMT -5
In the days of John apostles 5 churches were in bad shapes, some left their first love, sexual immoral happened badly in those days , false teachers entered the church. Jesus Christ told them to REPENT or He will take their names out from the book 📕 of life. We are facing similar problems today as they did in the 1st Century Church! Jesus is telling those who have sinned to REPENT or HE will REMOVE their names from the book 📖 of life. Matthew 10 was the 12 apostles FIRST mission without Jesus. Luke 10 was the 70 their first mission without Jesus to the Jews and children of Israel. He was preparing them all for the GREAT Commission in Matthew 28 to preach the gospel to Jews and to all Gentiles nations to the time of Jesus returns read Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8-9; Romans 10. Paul, Barnabas, Timothy, Titus, Silas and so on mission was to preach to Gentiles nations Acts 11-26…. Today! We have all problems like Jesus, Paul, and John the apostles days. Jesus Christ the same as yesterday, today and forever. The Message Jesus Saves, true Messengers sent by God, the method Jesus 2x2 apostolic Itinerant ministry is the same in every generation until He comes again. Don’t try to fixit or change if it ain’t broken! It is very broken. And producing bad fruit. Jesus would say to cut it down. It is also very interested that no matter how broken your system is, you defend it, and ignore all others preaching a true gospel message, include many others of different denominations and times and callings who have taken the gospel to distant lands in all sorts of circumstances. You are the best example of the brainwashing of the LivingWitnessDoctrine - that truth cometh only through the William irvine line. Who, in the end, became a false preacher proclaiming a new "omega" gospel and cursing the workers. Jesus does not approve of your attitude. "For he that is not against us is for us” (Mark 9:38-40) Judgement starts with the House of God? Yes. Most of us: "nothing in my hand I bring, only to thy cross I cling". Nathan: "I believed in the WORKERS, to their ministry I cling". |
|
|
|
Post by ForeverFree on Mar 20, 2024 20:25:24 GMT -5
The structure of the 2x2 Church is very similar to that of the Mafia. The biggest Mafia boss of all time is widely considered to be Al Capone, who became infamous for his violent and brutal ways. The leadership of the Italian Mafia has always been a hotly contested affair because it has only ever really been about strength and power. The problems of the 2x2 Church have been caused by allowing Workers to have sole power as el supremos. Control of the church should come from the congregation, via the Elders. The Elders should hire and fire, Workers should not have control of their own employment. Who appointed the elder in the New Test. Church? The apostles/workers. Who appointed the apostles? Christ. Who appointed Christ to earth? God the Father… That is God’s order of thing. That is God's order. But this is not God's way, this is man's way of how they would create order if they were God. If this was God's way, there would be order and there wouldn't be the mess there is today. There is a hymn that the workers and friends sing so often, "When afflictions press the soul, when waves of trouble roll, and you need a friend to help you, he's the one." If the workers are truly servants of God, why have they not been there offering help for those that faced affliction and waves of trouble? Why were they not there offering help in God's name when they cried out for help, instead of shunning, hushing and continuing to abuse and letting the abuser continue to abuse? They didn't help because they are sent by man, not by God. Most are uneducated in social work and theological work and create ideas in their own heads of how to deal with problems and we now see the results of their ignorance. The words in the book of Luke, chapter 12, that the workers preached so often, have come true. And not in the way that they thought. 2: For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known.
3: Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops. |
|
nathan2
Royal Member
Nathan again
50%
Posts: 5,258
|
Post by nathan2 on Mar 20, 2024 23:21:42 GMT -5
Who appointed the elder in the New Test. Church? The apostles/workers. Who appointed the apostles? Christ. Who appointed Christ to earth? God the Father… That is God’s order of thing. That is God's order. But this is not God's way, this is man's way of how they would create order if they were God. If this was God's way, there would be order and there wouldn't be the mess there is today. There is a hymn that the workers and friends sing so often, "When afflictions press the soul, when waves of trouble roll, and you need a friend to help you, he's the one." If the workers are truly servants of God, why have they not been there offering help for those that faced affliction and waves of trouble? Why were they not there offering help in God's name when they cried out for help, instead of shunning, hushing and continuing to abuse and letting the abuser continue to abuse? They didn't help because they are sent by man, not by God. Most are uneducated in social work and theological work and create ideas in their own heads of how to deal with problems and we now see the results of their ignorance. The words in the book of Luke, chapter 12, that the workers preached so often, have come true. And not in the way that they thought. 2: For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known.
3: Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops.Yes, I agree the current overseers are out of tune with God since 1960s when they adopted/Teach the Anti-Trinity and Jesus is NOT God doctrines. They went down hill from then. Some of us (worker/my older companion, the friends and myself) tried to educate and warn the overseers leadership about CSA within the ministry and fellowship back in the year 2000 on TMB, but they ignored it. They didn’t take heed the warnings seriously. Now, the overseers, the workers, the church elders, the friends and many of their children are paying a hefty price for the rest of their lives. Hopefully, the new generation of overseers, workers will learn from their previous predecessors Great blunders, horrible mistakes NOT to follow their examples, but fixit by having/rules zero tolerance for CSA within the ministry and fellowship. |
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Mar 21, 2024 0:22:52 GMT -5
Some of us (worker/my older companion, the friends and myself) tried to educate and warn the overseers leadership about CSA within the ministry and fellowship back in the year 2000 on TMB, but they ignored it. You were busy telling victims to forgive their abusers, and in doing so you were adding to the victims' trauma. |
|
nathan2
Royal Member
Nathan again
50%
Posts: 5,258
|
Post by nathan2 on Mar 21, 2024 0:36:27 GMT -5
Some of us (worker/my older companion, the friends and myself) tried to educate and warn the overseers leadership about CSA within the ministry and fellowship back in the year 2000 on TMB, but they ignored it. You were busy telling victims to forgive their abusers, and in doing so you were adding to the victims' trauma. Yes, I was given them the 🔑 to set them FREE from unforgiveness toward their abuser against them according to Jesus teachings in Matthew 6: 14-15 if ye forgive men their trespasses/sins against you, your Heavenly Father will forgive your sins! If ye Forgive NOT their sins against you, neither will your Heavenly Father forgive your sins. Hey, the choice is your to make! Please, report your abusers to the Authority and let the laws deals with them. Hopefully, they will repent of their sins against their victims and against God. If they don’t repent and change their behavior and way of life God will deal with them. Vengeance is mine said the Lord. God will do things worse to them than the authority can ever do to the abusers. This way the victims have peace of mind and can move on with their lives by seeking professional help to cope with the emotional and mental scars for the rest of their lives. |
|
|
|
Post by Pragmatic on Mar 21, 2024 0:54:34 GMT -5
You were busy telling victims to forgive their abusers, and in doing so you were adding to the victims' trauma. Yes, I was given them the 🔑 to set them FREE from unforgiveness toward their abuser against them according to Jesus teachings in Matthew 6: 14-15 if ye forgive men their trespasses/sins against you, your Heavenly Father will forgive your sins! If ye Forgive NOT their sins against you, neither will your Heavenly Father forgive your sins. Hey, the choice is your to make! Please, report your abusers to the Authority and let the laws deals with them. Hopefully, they will repent of their sins against their victims and against God. If they don’t repent and change their behavior and way of life God will deal with them. Vengeance is mine said the Lord. God will do things worse to them than the authority can ever do to the abusers. This way the victims have peace of mind and can move on with their lives by seeking professional help to cope with the emotional and mental scars for the rest of their lives. And that precisely is what a victim does not want to hear, and any psychologist would back that up. The mind of a CSA victim does not work like that. |
|
