A strange but true happening in the '2x2 religion'.
Jun 2, 2023 0:48:06 GMT -5
mod5, snow, and 4 more like this
Post by elizabethcoleman on Jun 2, 2023 0:48:06 GMT -5
themaninthemirror said: I still stand by that comment - if you knew a CSA offender, would you sit on it? Answer that honestly. What a ridiculous thing to suggest that everything should be laid at the feet of "the workers", waken up! If CSA is a crime it gets placed to law enforcement, immediately. Have you learnt nothing?
Ok, I have a lot more to say about this. Yes, you are harsh in your criticism of Sheri. And completely ignorant of how these things work.
If I knew a CSA offender, would I sit on it? No. And I have not. And I have done all in my powers to report on all cases of abuse I have known about, to the extent of my knowledge and responsibilities, and beyond.
Let’s take for example a case I was a part of at my church. Not even my church, actually, my wider denomination. It became known that a minister may have committed CSA. We have a task group that deals with such issues. Being a credible report, the minister was immediately stood down, and then irrevocably removed from the ministry. The victim was supported in making a police statement. The church leadership sent a letter to everyone known to be in his congregations the previous years; this included past members. There ended up being at least 3 victims we know about.
I am a Child Safety Officer at the church, but my task is only to raise the alarm on issues the leadership has not dealt with appropriately, or do follow-up for others in the congregation to wish to remain anonymous to leadership. On a need-to-know basis, and according to the wishes of the victims, only 2 names are known to me. The third is still anonymous – I do not have a right to know; that is the prerogative of the victim. At no time could I go to police myself to make a report, despite knowing the perpetrator. I didn’t have names, dates, places, details.
Years passed. Victims, for a variety of personal reasons, did not proceed with pressing charges. One eventually did, and the perpetrator is now in jail. The arm of the law moves slowly, or not at all. Victims may not proceed to court for all sorts of reasons, and none of us can – or should – force them to.
But you know what we can do? The only IMMEDIATE thing we can do is get a perpetrator removed from ministry. ONLY the church of the perpetrator can do that. Not any judge, not any lawyer, investigator, friend, complainant, you, me or even Sheri. THE CHURCH WHO EMPLOYS HIM. So yes, that is what you do first – get him removed from ministry. Other consequences may or may not happen. This is the only practical thing Sheri could do, actually – make sure the workers knew and then hold them responsible.
Back to my story. In the intervening years between accusation and trial, the defrocked minister left our denomination, left the state. Joined a different denomination in another state. He still hadn't faced charged, even though police reports had been made. Charges can never proceed until the victim gives their consent. Did I keep tabs on him? You bet I did. Contacted various key people to ensure his new church knew about the allegations against him. They did, but still had him in a leadership position as a Bible Study leader. Yes, I judge them for that.
I have known about other cases of abuse in my personal life and vocation. I have made police reports. I have made welfare reports (because my two-by-two relatives who were actually responsible would not). Yes, I have – hand on heart – done all in power to report all known perpetrators of all kinds of abuse in my sphere.
Re-read your quote at the top of this post. Does that answer your question? Yes, I lay everything at the feet of the workers, who are the ONLY ONES could ever remove perpetrators from the ministry, stop them travelling, stop them staying in the homes of new potential victims. Only the workers can remove these perpetrators from their own organisation. No one else has this ability or authority. Please read that last sentence again.
So yes, I am sensitive about being accused of sitting on my hands. Yes, I am angry on behalf of Sheri and the rest of her team when you criticize them instead of commending and supporting them.
So far your posts to me have been fairly scathing. Ok, I get that you don’t like me – you’re professing and I openly criticize the Two-by-Twos. You sarcastically asked if I was paying for therapy for victims of the Two-by-Twos since I was a past member. A bit rich, considering I was born into the group, had no choice about belonging to it, and left when I came of age before I even knew about any of the abuse, but you know what? I still responded in the affirmative and advised where you could too (as you are still a member, I should hope you seriously reconsidering ongoing financial support of workers). Met with complete silence on your part. Obviously not the response you were looking for.
You made previous accusations to me about not following up CSA offenders in the Two-by-Twos in Australia. I responded to that in a private message to tell you what was happening behind the scenes. That message was totally ignored. I could only surmise your real interest was in cheap public point scoring because of personal dislike of me.
I think we’re on the same side, ManintheMirror, but honestly – please educate yourself on how these processes work, and commend and support those doing the heavy lifting, even if they are ex-members.
PLEASE watch the movie Spotlight if you haven't already done so. It will help you realise what we're all up against.
Please talk to victims and find out why some haven't pressed charges and why they can't or won't. You will learn a lot.
But most of all - please hold the workers responsible for removing perpetrators from their own ministry.
Ok, I have a lot more to say about this. Yes, you are harsh in your criticism of Sheri. And completely ignorant of how these things work.
If I knew a CSA offender, would I sit on it? No. And I have not. And I have done all in my powers to report on all cases of abuse I have known about, to the extent of my knowledge and responsibilities, and beyond.
Let’s take for example a case I was a part of at my church. Not even my church, actually, my wider denomination. It became known that a minister may have committed CSA. We have a task group that deals with such issues. Being a credible report, the minister was immediately stood down, and then irrevocably removed from the ministry. The victim was supported in making a police statement. The church leadership sent a letter to everyone known to be in his congregations the previous years; this included past members. There ended up being at least 3 victims we know about.
I am a Child Safety Officer at the church, but my task is only to raise the alarm on issues the leadership has not dealt with appropriately, or do follow-up for others in the congregation to wish to remain anonymous to leadership. On a need-to-know basis, and according to the wishes of the victims, only 2 names are known to me. The third is still anonymous – I do not have a right to know; that is the prerogative of the victim. At no time could I go to police myself to make a report, despite knowing the perpetrator. I didn’t have names, dates, places, details.
Years passed. Victims, for a variety of personal reasons, did not proceed with pressing charges. One eventually did, and the perpetrator is now in jail. The arm of the law moves slowly, or not at all. Victims may not proceed to court for all sorts of reasons, and none of us can – or should – force them to.
But you know what we can do? The only IMMEDIATE thing we can do is get a perpetrator removed from ministry. ONLY the church of the perpetrator can do that. Not any judge, not any lawyer, investigator, friend, complainant, you, me or even Sheri. THE CHURCH WHO EMPLOYS HIM. So yes, that is what you do first – get him removed from ministry. Other consequences may or may not happen. This is the only practical thing Sheri could do, actually – make sure the workers knew and then hold them responsible.
Back to my story. In the intervening years between accusation and trial, the defrocked minister left our denomination, left the state. Joined a different denomination in another state. He still hadn't faced charged, even though police reports had been made. Charges can never proceed until the victim gives their consent. Did I keep tabs on him? You bet I did. Contacted various key people to ensure his new church knew about the allegations against him. They did, but still had him in a leadership position as a Bible Study leader. Yes, I judge them for that.
I have known about other cases of abuse in my personal life and vocation. I have made police reports. I have made welfare reports (because my two-by-two relatives who were actually responsible would not). Yes, I have – hand on heart – done all in power to report all known perpetrators of all kinds of abuse in my sphere.
Re-read your quote at the top of this post. Does that answer your question? Yes, I lay everything at the feet of the workers, who are the ONLY ONES could ever remove perpetrators from the ministry, stop them travelling, stop them staying in the homes of new potential victims. Only the workers can remove these perpetrators from their own organisation. No one else has this ability or authority. Please read that last sentence again.
So yes, I am sensitive about being accused of sitting on my hands. Yes, I am angry on behalf of Sheri and the rest of her team when you criticize them instead of commending and supporting them.
So far your posts to me have been fairly scathing. Ok, I get that you don’t like me – you’re professing and I openly criticize the Two-by-Twos. You sarcastically asked if I was paying for therapy for victims of the Two-by-Twos since I was a past member. A bit rich, considering I was born into the group, had no choice about belonging to it, and left when I came of age before I even knew about any of the abuse, but you know what? I still responded in the affirmative and advised where you could too (as you are still a member, I should hope you seriously reconsidering ongoing financial support of workers). Met with complete silence on your part. Obviously not the response you were looking for.
You made previous accusations to me about not following up CSA offenders in the Two-by-Twos in Australia. I responded to that in a private message to tell you what was happening behind the scenes. That message was totally ignored. I could only surmise your real interest was in cheap public point scoring because of personal dislike of me.
I think we’re on the same side, ManintheMirror, but honestly – please educate yourself on how these processes work, and commend and support those doing the heavy lifting, even if they are ex-members.
PLEASE watch the movie Spotlight if you haven't already done so. It will help you realise what we're all up against.
Please talk to victims and find out why some haven't pressed charges and why they can't or won't. You will learn a lot.
But most of all - please hold the workers responsible for removing perpetrators from their own ministry.