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Post by bfvernon on May 27, 2023 22:41:41 GMT -5
International Studies, the reason that we know that you don’t know Jesus is because you are a Worker. Workers believe in the Living Witness Doctrine. You believe that people can only come to Christ through you. Because you believe that, it’s a given that you don’t know Jesus.
You also believe in a “works” based religion - that is, people have to do a lot of (crazy) stuff to qualify, for example, if you’re a female, you have to blah blah blah. You can’t have a radio, a tv, play sport, etc etc. All of your people live in fear. None of that is Biblical. We’re all sorry for you.
Please be respectful to Elizabeth Coleman. She has international respect. Your organisation has none and because you are associated with it, you have none. When you can show us your financial ledgers, your documentation of safe church policies and you can speak from a sound Biblical perspective, we might be inclined to listen to you.
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Post by Admin on May 27, 2023 22:59:34 GMT -5
I'm not sure Elizabeth thinks that no one can have joy in the 2x2 group. Maybe I'm wrong. But personally I think that would be very incorrect. I know of many people who do enjoy the 2x2 way of meetings in the home etc. What they don't like is what is happening right now. That's why it's important to figure out solutions so that people can still enjoy fellowship in the 2x2 group and also be as safe as possible at the same time. (my emphasis) Something the founder Wm Irvine got right, for me anyway, is the simple form of Sunday fellowship. Where everyone, man and woman, young and old, get to participate in a respectful way. It's good, so long as the foundation faith is in God and not in all the extraneous stuff (including as you say snow, we definitely "don't like what is happening right now"). Just my experience, fwiw.
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Post by Grant on May 27, 2023 23:44:58 GMT -5
I'm not sure Elizabeth thinks that no one can have joy in the 2x2 group. Maybe I'm wrong. But personally I think that would be very incorrect. I know of many people who do enjoy the 2x2 way of meetings in the home etc. What they don't like is what is happening right now. That's why it's important to figure out solutions so that people can still enjoy fellowship in the 2x2 group and also be as safe as possible at the same time. (my emphasis) Something the founder Wm Irvine got right, for me anyway, is the simple form of Sunday fellowship. Where everyone, man and woman, young and old, get to participate in a respectful way. It's good, so long as the foundation faith is in God and not in all the extraneous stuff (including as you say snow, we definitely "don't like what is happening right now"). I just wish you still could keep an open mind about the possibility of a creator, because I would love to look forward to meeting and chatting with you in heaven I disagree with you. Their Sunday form of meeting is not simple, nor do young and old get to participate in respectful way. People are compelled to go. Only those who profess are allowed to participate. There is pressure to speak with a long embarrassing silence waiting for you if you don't. Hardly respectful. Many people find speaking stressful. Children are to keep quiet. Churches have their small groups. People are free to participate, no feelings of having to. Far more respectful.
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Post by bfvernon on May 27, 2023 23:45:10 GMT -5
The fellowship meetings are flawed because there is no sound Biblical leadership. People who “take part” read the Bible and comment on it without any background in exegesis or understanding of the cultural aspects embedded in the narrative of the Bible. Young people aren’t given any guidance or explanation of what are very difficult concepts. I remember being totally out of my depth in many of the mid week Bible studies, and nobody explained any of the background necessary for me to understand what I was required to read. After a couple of generations in a group that was not geographically or economically mobile and had no new people, the lack of understanding became woeful and dangerous.
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Post by fixit on May 28, 2023 0:06:47 GMT -5
I’d wait to see if the marriage actually works out (the second time) before becoming so smarmy. pm you when it happens? Or would that even more smarmy for you? That something of Christ and the Holy Spirit happens in the '2x2 cult'? A reality you'd rather not face? It's too much for elizabethcoleman, fixit, chuck, mrbalino, matisse, pragmatic, openingact23, all that type of poster. Something of Christ and the Holy Spirit happens in the 2x2 church, but I see it in non-idolatrous places.
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Post by openingact34 on May 28, 2023 1:04:57 GMT -5
I'm not sure Elizabeth thinks that no one can have joy in the 2x2 group. Maybe I'm wrong. But personally I think that would be very incorrect. I know of many people who do enjoy the 2x2 way of meetings in the home etc. What they don't like is what is happening right now. That's why it's important to figure out solutions so that people can still enjoy fellowship in the 2x2 group and also be as safe as possible at the same time. (my emphasis) Something the founder Wm Irvine got right, for me anyway, is the simple form of Sunday fellowship. Where everyone, man and woman, young and old, get to participate in a respectful way. It's good, so long as the foundation faith is in God and not in all the extraneous stuff (including as you say snow , we definitely "don't like what is happening right now"). I just wish you still could keep an open mind about the possibility of a creator, because I would love to look forward to meeting and chatting with you in heaven Classic Christianity. Slide in that smooth, subtle, passive aggressive "I'm going to heaven and and you're going to burn" reminder.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2023 1:24:33 GMT -5
The fellowship meetings are flawed because there is no sound Biblical leadership. People who “take part” read the Bible and comment on it without any background in exegesis or understanding of the cultural aspects embedded in the narrative of the Bible. Young people aren’t given any guidance or explanation of what are very difficult concepts. I remember being totally out of my depth in many of the mid week Bible studies, and nobody explained any of the background necessary for me to understand what I was required to read. After a couple of generations in a group that was not geographically or economically mobile and had no new people, the lack of understanding became woeful and dangerous. Thats what the Holy Spirit is for and using your noggin...
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Post by internationalstudies on May 28, 2023 1:31:01 GMT -5
pm you when it happens? Or would that even more smarmy for you? That something of Christ and the Holy Spirit happens in the '2x2 cult'? A reality you'd rather not face? It's too much for elizabethcoleman, fixit, chuck, mrbalino, matisse, pragmatic, openingact23, all that type of poster. Something of Christ and the Holy Spirit happens in the 2x2 church, but I see it in non-idolatrous places. 'idolatrous places".... conventions etc. Probably too much 'worker worship' and 'the system' being upheld there for a man of integrity like you eh? Dare to be a Daniel....dare to stand alone...😜
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Post by Grant on May 28, 2023 2:01:23 GMT -5
Something of Christ and the Holy Spirit happens in the 2x2 church, but I see it in non-idolatrous places. 'idolatrous places".... conventions etc. Probably too much 'worker worship' and 'the system' being upheld there for a man of integrity like you eh? Dare to be a Daniel....dare to stand alone...😜 As the title of this thread says, a strange but true happening in the 2x2 church. A worker talking like this is strange. Talking and naming 3 members of his church is even stranger. I haven't seen you stand up and support victims of abuse Int. Studies. Plenty of posts about false accusations but little in support of victims.
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Post by fixit on May 28, 2023 3:17:31 GMT -5
Something the founder Wm Irvine got right, for me anyway, is the simple form of Sunday fellowship. I seem to recall it was Edward Cooney who started the Sunday morning meetings.
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Post by internationalstudies on May 28, 2023 4:43:45 GMT -5
International Studies, the reason that we know that you don’t know Jesus is because you are a Worker. Workers believe in the Living Witness Doctrine. You believe that people can only come to Christ through you. Because you believe that, it’s a given that you don’t know Jesus. You also believe in a “works” based religion - that is, people have to do a lot of (crazy) stuff to qualify, for example, if you’re a female, you have to blah blah blah. You can’t have a radio, a tv, play sport, etc etc. All of your people live in fear. None of that is Biblical. We’re all sorry for you. Please be respectful to Elizabeth Coleman. She has international respect. Your organisation has none and because you are associated with it, you have none. When you can show us your financial ledgers, your documentation of safe church policies and you can speak from a sound Biblical perspective, we might be inclined to listen to you. bfvernon, Feel better having got this off your chest? (It's called cathartic release.) your nonsense did make chuckle/ brought a smile to my face. your idol elizabethcoleman, as one poster observed of 'internationally respected' elizabeth: "Please be respectful to Elizabeth Coleman. She has international respect." She is rabid and as full of nonsense about 'the 2x2 cult where she wasted years of her life', as you are.
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Post by matisse on May 28, 2023 9:46:34 GMT -5
You appear to have wally firmly in your court cheering you on. Wally's an "Internet Worker" as well as a "Watchman" here on TMB. Only on a couple issues liar. Nope I'm just a watchmen you've confused me with Nathan, not surprised some memories on here last seconds... As far as I can see, this is the first time that you have ever denied being an Internet Worker, despite Nathan asserting many times that you were his Internet Companion. I am posting links to a few of these posts. In the following excerpts, words in bolded red font are Nathan's (you're welcome, all of you who have missed Nathan), accompanied by links to each source: professing.proboards.com/post/814875FYI, Wally and Jetmech are MY TMB companions. :D We go mostly TWO together but sometimes threesomes, like Paul, Barnbas and Timothy. The band of three cords are hard to be broken, like the Trinity. (no reply from wally) professing.proboards.com/post/821487Yes, Wally is an Internet worker like myself. and he is my companion on TMB. Wally, offered for the work but they didn't accept him for whatever reason. Many outsider/people professed in their hearts to serve God, through the friends preaching/teaching, for years before they MET the workers or attend their gospel meetings. (no reply from wally) professing.proboards.com/post/865023hahaha... I started my own Jesus 2x2 church on TMB or similar boards to it, 20 yrs ago... I am the first internet worker, Wally and Jetmech are my companions, didn't you know that... You should KNOW that by now, RT. (no reply from wally) This post, you "liked":professing.proboards.com/post/877494Stop trying to answer for Wally. Wally and I are Internet co-workers/companions on TMB, didn't you get the memo/the workers list. We support and help each others with the little that we know and understand... We will be together as workers for a long haul on here. (no reply from wally beyond his "like") This is the only reply I could find from you, but it stops short of denying that you consider yourself to be an Internet Worker: professing.proboards.com/post/981926Your internet worker companion needs some help - he can't tell the difference between fantasy and truth. None of you are helping in any measurable way. You have never refuted Nathan's assertions about you being an Internet Worker, until just now. Please explain on what basis you are accusing me of being a liar.
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Post by matisse on May 28, 2023 10:05:53 GMT -5
This is what is happening in our church in 2023: (The church that a not small number of well-wisher/'hopeful optimist' TMB posters are predicting and hoping for the demise of its ministry and the 'cult' generally if possible!) 'Get them all back to mainline churches where Christ can be found.'
"A number of years ago two young people got married in atheist country that has limited freedom of religion. They had a family, things did not go well in their marriage and they were divorced. The young divorcee moved to a country where there is freedom of religion. She was interested in Christianity, and 'by chance' she met one of our the friends. As a result she attended gospel meetings. She listened, she believed and she found Christ and embraced him with all her heart. The years passed a child, now a young teenager made their personal commitment to Christ (the 'awful corrupted, all but finished workers' probably had some influence on her! ) The years passed, the ex husband went to this same country. He 'foolishly' started attending gospel meetings of the '2x2s' and their workers also . The Gospel of Jesus Christ began affecting his life also. He too in the course of time, let his commitment to following Jesus be known. " footnote These two have plans to renew/reaffirm the marriage vows they first made decades ago. A testimony to the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ and this transforming power working in lives in 2023!😀"
(In contrast to some posts on TMB ; these are true facts.) The sentence that I highlighted in red font is your opinion/belief, not a fact.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2023 13:04:54 GMT -5
Only on a couple issues liar. Nope I'm just a watchmen you've confused me with Nathan, not surprised some memories on here last seconds... As far as I can see, this is the first time that you have ever denied being an Internet Worker, despite Nathan asserting many times that you were his Internet Companion. I am posting links to a few of these posts. In the following excerpts, words in bolded red font are Nathan's (you're welcome, all of you who have missed Nathan), accompanied by links to each source: professing.proboards.com/post/814875FYI, Wally and Jetmech are MY TMB companions. We go mostly TWO together but sometimes threesomes, like Paul, Barnbas and Timothy. The band of three cords are hard to be broken, like the Trinity. (no reply from wally) professing.proboards.com/post/821487Yes, Wally is an Internet worker like myself. and he is my companion on TMB. Wally, offered for the work but they didn't accept him for whatever reason. Many outsider/people professed in their hearts to serve God, through the friends preaching/teaching, for years before they MET the workers or attend their gospel meetings. (no reply from wally) professing.proboards.com/post/865023hahaha... I started my own Jesus 2x2 church on TMB or similar boards to it, 20 yrs ago... I am the first internet worker, Wally and Jetmech are my companions, didn't you know that... You should KNOW that by now, RT. (no reply from wally) This post, you "liked":professing.proboards.com/post/877494Wally and I are Internet co-workers/companions on TMB, didn't you get the memo/the workers list. We support and help each others with the little that we know and understand... We will be together as workers for a long haul on here. (no reply from wally beyond his "like") This is the only reply I could find from you, but it stops short of denying that you consider yourself to be an Internet Worker: professing.proboards.com/post/981926None of you are helping in any measurable way. You have never refuted Nathan's assertions about you being an Internet Worker, until just now. Please explain on what basis you are accusing me of being a liar. Thats called ASSuming on your part we all know what that means. Here is a clue Einstein. If I had said YES to any of those that would be agreeing with that label. You don't answer every label you get or post shall we ASSume you agree with those? With a Like it's hard to show which part of a post you are liking and doesn't mean you like the whole thing. Liar. Not even a good try...
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Post by snow on May 28, 2023 13:06:06 GMT -5
You appear to have wally firmly in your court cheering you on. Wally's an "Internet Worker" as well as a "Watchman" here on TMB. Matisse So this is your attempt to deflect from this TMB truth? Slag the corrupt useless workers all you like and the 'system' as well. You'll have your cheerleaders and well-wishers with you all the way. But DON'T dare question any of the nonsense that these posters put up. Well I'm not in Wally's court cheering him on with all his mad guns rights stuff. We sadly and cynically from afar observe the ... weekly? (maybe not quite weekly) news reports of the mass gun shootings in the US. SOME Americans have not yet worked out the connection between gun rights/loose gun laws/2nd amendment rights.... and mass gun shootings. But of course as NRA types say.... "Remember guns don't shot people, people shoot people". Are you are cheerleader of the NRA type as well as of those the 'who slag the workers and 'the system' here? My response to 'remember guns don't shoot people, people shoot people' is then 'why are we giving people guns?'
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Post by snow on May 28, 2023 13:14:19 GMT -5
Something of Christ and the Holy Spirit happens in the 2x2 church, but I see it in non-idolatrous places. 'idolatrous places".... conventions etc. Probably too much 'worker worship' and 'the system' being upheld there for a man of integrity like you eh? Dare to be a Daniel....dare to stand alone...😜 Why would fixit think conventions are idolatrous places? And, does anyone support worker worship? If he's against worker worship, wouldn't that be a good thing?
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Post by internationalstudies on May 28, 2023 14:34:44 GMT -5
'idolatrous places".... conventions etc. Probably too much 'worker worship' and 'the system' being upheld there for a man of integrity like you eh? Dare to be a Daniel....dare to stand alone...😜 Why would fixit think conventions are idolatrous places? And, does anyone support worker worship? If he's against worker worship, wouldn't that be a good thing? Snow, Suggest you ask fixit himself to enlarge on his 'idolatrous places' line up. Pretty sure he'll be glad of an audience to present an 'idolatrous places' fixit 'sermon/preach' to, doubtless he'll present it using Scripture.😋
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Post by matisse on May 28, 2023 15:21:43 GMT -5
As far as I can see, this is the first time that you have ever denied being an Internet Worker, despite Nathan asserting many times that you were his Internet Companion. I am posting links to a few of these posts. In the following excerpts, words in bolded red font are Nathan's (you're welcome, all of you who have missed Nathan), accompanied by links to each source: professing.proboards.com/post/814875FYI, Wally and Jetmech are MY TMB companions. We go mostly TWO together but sometimes threesomes, like Paul, Barnbas and Timothy. The band of three cords are hard to be broken, like the Trinity. (no reply from wally) professing.proboards.com/post/821487Yes, Wally is an Internet worker like myself. and he is my companion on TMB. Wally, offered for the work but they didn't accept him for whatever reason. Many outsider/people professed in their hearts to serve God, through the friends preaching/teaching, for years before they MET the workers or attend their gospel meetings. (no reply from wally) professing.proboards.com/post/865023hahaha... I started my own Jesus 2x2 church on TMB or similar boards to it, 20 yrs ago... I am the first internet worker, Wally and Jetmech are my companions, didn't you know that... You should KNOW that by now, RT. (no reply from wally) This post, you "liked":professing.proboards.com/post/877494(no reply from wally beyond his "like") This is the only reply I could find from you, but it stops short of denying that you consider yourself to be an Internet Worker: professing.proboards.com/post/981926You have never refuted Nathan's assertions about you being an Internet Worker, until just now. Please explain on what basis you are accusing me of being a liar. Thats called ASSuming on your part we all know what that means. Here is a clue Einstein. If I had said YES to any of those that would be agreeing with that label. You don't answer every label you get or post shall we ASSume you agree with those? With a Like it's hard to show which part of a post you are liking and doesn't mean you like the whole thing. Liar. Not even a good try... What was it about nathan's post that you 'liked'?
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Post by snow on May 28, 2023 15:51:28 GMT -5
Why would fixit think conventions are idolatrous places? And, does anyone support worker worship? If he's against worker worship, wouldn't that be a good thing? Snow, Suggest you ask fixit himself to enlarge on his 'idolatrous places' line up. Pretty sure he'll be glad of an audience to present an 'idolatrous places' fixit 'sermon/preach' to, doubtless he'll present it using Scripture.😋 Are you sure you're not understanding him wrong? If he hated the F&W's like you seem to be saying, why would he stay? He obviously hates what's going on right now, but so do you. All of us hate it.
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Post by SharonArnold on May 28, 2023 16:01:20 GMT -5
I'm not sure Elizabeth thinks that no one can have joy in the 2x2 group. Maybe I'm wrong. But personally I think that would be very incorrect. I know of many people who do enjoy the 2x2 way of meetings in the home etc. What they don't like is what is happening right now. That's why it's important to figure out solutions so that people can still enjoy fellowship in the 2x2 group and also be as safe as possible at the same time. (my emphasis) Something the founder Wm Irvine got right, for me anyway, is the simple form of Sunday fellowship. Where everyone, man and woman, young and old, get to participate in a respectful way. It's good, so long as the foundation faith is in God and not in all the extraneous stuff (including as you say snow, we definitely "don't like what is happening right now"). Just my experience, fwiw. As an ex 2X2, I also knew the value of being in a "working" meeting. One where the elder and his wife were not too full of themselves. One where no one preached at anyone else, but just humbly and honestly showed up, week after week, sharing a little of what was truly in their hearts. Matthew 18:20 King James Version "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." Sometimes, magic happened. It really did. I saw an echo of this, later, in corporate team building exercises. Basically, they would create a somewhat uncomfortable environment, compel people to share something deeply personal, and Wham! Instant bonding. You are a team. Nothing wrong with that. We are hardwired for it. It is a very useful tool to contend with the challenges of life. #Respect
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 28, 2023 16:40:58 GMT -5
(my emphasis) Something the founder Wm Irvine got right, for me anyway, is the simple form of Sunday fellowship. Where everyone, man and woman, young and old, get to participate in a respectful way. It's good, so long as the foundation faith is in God and not in all the extraneous stuff (including as you say snow , we definitely "don't like what is happening right now"). Just my experience, fwiw. As an ex 2X2, I also knew the value of being in a "working" meeting. One where the elder and his wife were not too full of themselves. One where no one preached at anyone else, but just humbly and honestly showed up, week after week, sharing a little of what was truly in their hearts. Matthew 18:20 King James Version "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." Sometimes, magic happened. It really did. I saw an echo of this, later, in corporate team building exercises. Basically, they would create a somewhat uncomfortable environment, compel people to share something deeply personal, and Wham! Instant bonding. You are a team. Nothing wrong with that. We are hardwired for it. It is a very useful tool to contend with the challenges of life. #Respect There is evidence of social bonding or caring going right back to the Paleolithic period.
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Post by SharonArnold on May 28, 2023 16:47:04 GMT -5
As an ex 2X2, I also knew the value of being in a "working" meeting. One where the elder and his wife were not too full of themselves. One where no one preached at anyone else, but just humbly and honestly showed up, week after week, sharing a little of what was truly in their hearts. Matthew 18:20 King James Version "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." Sometimes, magic happened. It really did. I saw an echo of this, later, in corporate team building exercises. Basically, they would create a somewhat uncomfortable environment, compel people to share something deeply personal, and Wham! Instant bonding. You are a team. Nothing wrong with that. We are hardwired for it. It is a very useful tool to contend with the challenges of life. #Respect There is evidence of social bonding or caring going right back to the Paleolithic period. Yeah. We're (i.e., human beings) great, aren't we?
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 28, 2023 17:12:00 GMT -5
There is evidence of social bonding or caring going right back to the Paleolithic period. Yeah. We're (i.e., human beings) great, aren't we? Yes we are. Other Homo species such as Homo Erectus and even earlier apes such as Australopithicus lived communally, made tools and had social structure.
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Post by Pragmatic on May 29, 2023 5:10:36 GMT -5
'idolatrous places".... conventions etc. Probably too much 'worker worship' and 'the system' being upheld there for a man of integrity like you eh? Dare to be a Daniel....dare to stand alone...😜 As the title of this thread says, a strange but true happening in the 2x2 church. A worker talking like this is strange. Talking and naming 3 members of his church is even stranger. I haven't seen you stand up and support victims of abuse Int. Studies. Plenty of posts about false accusations but little in support of victims. Three members - what did I miss while I was away?
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Post by elizabethcoleman on May 29, 2023 5:36:02 GMT -5
So, a few points to clarify.
Do I rejoice when there are new converts to the 2x2s? No more than if I'd rejoice regarding new converts to the JWs or Mormons. All three groups deny the deity of Christ, preach a gospel of righteousness by works, and [most] deny that any true Christians exist outside of their own group.
I don't hold to conversion stories into "the way" because that is what they are - conversion into a high control manmade group, not indicative of their conversion to faith in Christ.
I also don't hold to conversion stories into "the way" any more than I hold to ex-conversion stories out of "the way" - where the ex-converter died days/weeks later in some terrible accident because they left. Heard many of those stories in my youth.
Do I believe there are true Christians in the Two-by-Twos? Yes. Quote from my book, which I stand by:
More recently I have had the great blessing of coming into contact with members of the Two-by-twos who do understand the true message and gospel of Christ, and recognise that I do too. They do not reject me by virtue of being ‘out’, and are not afraid to maintain contact and discuss theological issues.
Such people seem to have a clear and beautiful picture of Jesus within the framework of the fellowship of the friends and workers. But they appear to be an aberration from the broader group. I say this in the best possible way, and am greatly encouraged that they want to discuss faith and scripture, and how to be encouraged and grow in it. For most of us who have left, it is a sad reality that the majority of the friends and workers are unprepared or unwilling to discuss spiritual issues. While in the Two-by-twos, I had only a frame - no picture. A system of faith, but no true understanding of the sacrifice of Jesus. When I finally heard and understood the true gospel of grace, this new picture of Christ wouldn't fit the frame I already had. The picture became more important to me than the frame, and the workers said I couldn't have both, so I took the picture and had to leave the frame behind.
So why don't I rejoice in new converts to the 2x2s? Another quote from my book.
The ultimate irony is that the ministry, which claims to be the only one not man-made, is exactly that. The friends and workers do not believe ultimately in Jesus as the way of salvation, they believe in their ministry - a system – The Way of salvation. Take away the method of ministry, and what gospel remains for them? For them, the frame will always be more important than the picture. The method will always be more important than the message.
Many will accuse me of laying blame on the Two-by-twos in matters where other churches are guilty of the same things. Yes, other churches are full of sinful, faulty human beings and imperfect pastors. Church structures and authority figures have and will continue to fail church members in many ways. So why pick on the Two-by-twos? Why go on and on about their every failing?
Where do I start? The continued denial and cover-up of sexual abuse within the Two-by-two system is only part of a much larger picture of an organisation where their lack of true pastoral care is evidenced in their callous disregard of genuinely hurting souls. Forced divorces are commanded if any divorced member dares re-marry and wants to continue in the group or re-join the group after leaving. Members are excommunicated and cast out for disagreeing with a worker, while friends and workers who have committed serious crimes of sexual abuse are protected within the group. No financial visibility or accountability is ever provided to the friends regarding money from members and deceased estates which is stashed in hidden bank accounts. But none of this, serious as it is, is the fundamental problem.
The most serious indictment against the Two-by-twos is that they claim to be the only way to God, even though their very foundation is based on deceit. They claim that their Way is perfect. They claim exclusive spiritual authority, and relentlessly coerce their members to believe only in them and their system. They bind people to them through fear and conditioning. More than that - they preach a false gospel, claiming that they alone are The Way, The Truth, and the life that has to be lived to be acceptable to God. They deny that Jesus alone can bear these titles.
I did not leave The Way to follow another way. I did not escape the doctrine of the workers to follow the doctrines of other men. I left The Way because I met Jesus. He showed me that faith cannot be dependent on any human being, ministry, church or organisation. He showed me that what I had was the way, the truth and the lie. He alone is the way, the truth and the life.
Do I condemn anyone to hell? No. That role belongs to Jesus alone. He will judge all on their understanding and relationship to HIM, not based on their denomination or religious affiliation.
Some Christ-like words to finish from Matthew 23:
The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat ... But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
Everything they do is done for people to see: ... They love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
... You snakes! You brood of vipers!
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Post by internationalstudies on May 29, 2023 6:09:30 GMT -5
Elizabeth, You 'got a good head of steam up' for this one. 😳 All you'll need now is half a dozen 'likes' from some of your cheerleaders and you'll be feeling rather pleased with yourself and your efforts! Do I condemn anyone to hell? No. That role belongs to Jesus alone. He will judge all on their understanding and relationship to HIM, not based on their denomination or religious affiliation.
Elizabeth with your strong hell condemnation recommendation for the 2x2s that you've given to your 'jesus' What hope for them? Only chance I see for them is to leave the cult and join a 'good' (non lutheran) church like your one. 🤷♂️ Then your 'loving' closing 'benediction': ... You snakes! You brood of vipers! To be quite frank, your post makes me wonder something concerning you that I won't voice in this public post.
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Post by elizabethcoleman on May 29, 2023 6:23:46 GMT -5
May those who say to me, “Aha! Aha!” be appalled at their own shame. But may all who seek you rejoice and be glad in you
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Post by fixit on May 29, 2023 15:10:45 GMT -5
To be quite frank, your post makes me wonder something concerning you that I won't voice in this public post. If what you wonder is as embarrassing as what you write then please do keep it to yourself.
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