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Post by internationalstudies on May 22, 2023 21:19:09 GMT -5
This is what is happening in our church in 2023: (The church that a not small number of well-wisher/'hopeful optimist' TMB posters are predicting and hoping for the demise of its ministry and the 'cult' generally if possible!) 'Get them all back to mainline churches where Christ can be found.'
"A number of years ago two young people got married in atheist country that has limited freedom of religion. They had a family, things did not go well in their marriage and they were divorced. The young divorcee moved to a country where there is freedom of religion. She was interested in Christianity, and 'by chance' she met one of our the friends. As a result she attended gospel meetings. She listened, she believed and she found Christ and embraced him with all her heart. The years passed a child, now a young teenager made their personal commitment to Christ (the 'awful corrupted, all but finished workers' probably had some influence on her! ) The years passed, the ex husband went to this same country. He 'foolishly' started attending gospel meetings of the '2x2s' and their workers also . The Gospel of Jesus Christ began affecting his life also. He too in the course of time, let his commitment to following Jesus be known. " footnote These two have plans to renew/reaffirm the marriage vows they first made decades ago. A testimony to the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ and this transforming power working in lives in 2023!đ"
(In contrast to some posts on TMB ; these are true facts.)
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Post by elizabethcoleman on May 22, 2023 22:27:21 GMT -5
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Post by chuck on May 22, 2023 22:36:19 GMT -5
This is what is happening in our church in 2023: (The church that  a not small  number of  well-wisher/'hopeful optimist' TMB posters are predicting and hoping for the demise of its ministry and the 'cult' generally if possible!) 'Get them all back to mainline churches where Christ can be found.' Â
"A number of years  ago two young  people got married in atheist country that has limited freedom of religion. They had a family, things did not go well in their marriage and they were divorced. The young divorcee moved to a country where there is freedom of religion. She was interested in Christianity, and 'by chance' she met one of our the friends. As a result she attended gospel meetings.  She listened, she believed and she found Christ and embraced him with all her heart. The years passed a child, now a young teenager made their personal commitment to Christ (the 'awful corrupted, all but finished workers' probably had some influence on her! ) The years passed, the ex husband  went to this same country. He 'foolishly'  started attending gospel meetings of the '2x2s' and their workers also . The Gospel of Jesus Christ  began affecting his life also. He too in the course of time, let his commitment to following Jesus be known. " footnote These two have plans to renew/reaffirm the marriage vows they first made decades ago. A testimony to the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ and this transforming power working in lives in 2023!đ"
(In contrast to some posts on TMB ; these are true facts.) You have started with your conclusion and therefore you see it everywhere. This conclusion being you have the Gospel of Jesus Christ........coincidently the conclusion you have started with just happens to look and sound like your rituals and traditions. If you start with your conclusion you see it everywhere......... Meanwhile also in 2023 accused Child abusers are still staying in young family homes and convicted child abuser's are still attending gospel meetings amongst young families........How you can call that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is beyond me....... I don't doubt the sincerity and happiness of the people in your story, I doubt your premise, its fundamentally flawed.....
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Post by internationalstudies on May 22, 2023 22:54:38 GMT -5
Predictable responses from two of the: "well-wisher/'hopeful optimist' TMB posters who are predicting and hoping for the demise of its ministry and the 'cult' generally if possible! 'Get them all back to mainline churches where Christ can be found.'"
p.s. there will be a few more responses like this yet! p.p.s A necessary correction to the above story, the well-wisher 'alternative facts' (copyright 'Kellyanne Conway of trump fame) are the afore mentioned have actually been duped by the '2x2 system/brainwashing/deception' and need to get to a mainline church asap to have a 'real' Christian experience (a good lutheran church is a perhaps where a good starting point?)
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Post by elizabethcoleman on May 22, 2023 23:06:55 GMT -5
You seem to be under the misapprehension I attend a Lutheran church. Where did you come by this false information? And why do you keep promulgating it?
Edit: You seem to have alternative facts.
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Post by internationalstudies on May 22, 2023 23:15:10 GMT -5
You seem to be under the misapprehension I attend a Lutheran church. Where did you come by this false information? And why do you keep promulgating it? My apologies. I am incorrect. My faulty memory is of one of your spoutings about your 'wonderful' new church( where Christ can be found) of it being some variety of a lutheran church ? Promulgate the correction to my 'alternative lutheran facts'; if you wish?
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Post by elizabethcoleman on May 22, 2023 23:21:50 GMT -5
All protestant churches (ie non catholic) hark back to Martin Luther, who sparked the Reformation. He was a monk trying to be saved by works, when he finally understand the gospel of grace by reading Romans. Perhaps you could do a study of church history.
Whoever winks maliciously causes grief, and a chattering fool comes to ruin. - Proverbs 10:10
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Post by internationalstudies on May 22, 2023 23:27:12 GMT -5
All protestant churches (ie non catholic) hark back to Martin Luther, who sparked the Reformation. He was a monk trying to be saved by works, when he finally understand the gospel of grace by reading Romans. Perhaps you could do a study of church history. Whoever winks maliciously causes grief, and a chattering fool comes to ruin.
- Proverbs 10:10 Appreciate your counsel! Of course Prov 10:10 could not possibly refer to a person like yourself who 'found Christ' once they left the 2x2 cult where they had wasted years of your life and emerged with PTSD. Your grief and concern and prayers are for your family members and loved ones still in bondage there! (oh and also now for the three duped souls mentioned in the opening post) . Your reality and alternative facts as you wrote: "I only come on here every few years, with long breaks inbetween. The rest of the time I am indeed living a very happy life far away from all this, and with true freedom in Christ.
Elizabeth you dig yourself deeper and deeper in, the more you post! đ¤ˇââď¸
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Post by elizabethcoleman on May 22, 2023 23:39:08 GMT -5
Yes, I know you like to make fun of those who have suffered. Wearing sunnies doesn't hide the malicious winking. I believe your abusive behaviour has caused your overseer to request you stay away from this board. But apparently they are so used to abusers in your system they don't take them very seriously or follow through. A sad state of affairs.
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Post by internationalstudies on May 22, 2023 23:46:50 GMT -5
Yes, I know you like to make fun of those who have suffered. Wearing sunnies doesn't hide the malicious winking. I believe your abusive behaviour has caused your overseer to request you stay away from this board. But apparently they are so used to abusers in your system they don't take them very seriously or follow through. A sad state of affairs. Yes Elizabeth; from 'your' reality; which is yours and your entitlement. Your reality, inclusive of denying Christ in the experience of those in the opening post.đ¤ˇââď¸
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Post by fixit on May 23, 2023 0:37:39 GMT -5
This is what is happening in our church in 2023: (The church that a not small number of well-wisher/'hopeful optimist' TMB posters are predicting and hoping for the demise of its ministry and the 'cult' generally if possible!) 'Get them all back to mainline churches where Christ can be found.'
"A number of years ago two young people got married in atheist country that has limited freedom of religion. They had a family, things did not go well in their marriage and they were divorced. The young divorcee moved to a country where there is freedom of religion. She was interested in Christianity, and 'by chance' she met one of our the friends. As a result she attended gospel meetings. She listened, she believed and she found Christ and embraced him with all her heart. The years passed a child, now a young teenager made their personal commitment to Christ (the 'awful corrupted, all but finished workers' probably had some influence on her! ) The years passed, the ex husband went to this same country. He 'foolishly' started attending gospel meetings of the '2x2s' and their workers also . The Gospel of Jesus Christ began affecting his life also. He too in the course of time, let his commitment to following Jesus be known. " footnote These two have plans to renew/reaffirm the marriage vows they first made decades ago. A testimony to the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ and this transforming power working in lives in 2023!đ"
(In contrast to some posts on TMB ; these are true facts.) I guess the goal is to produce more Christians than Atheists in 2023?
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Post by elizabethcoleman on May 23, 2023 0:40:30 GMT -5
Denying Christ? Kindly point out such. More fake news from Review.
Of course I'm here at the moment. I'm well informed. Will be watching the ongoing exposure of decades of deceit with much interest.
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Post by internationalstudies on May 23, 2023 0:52:25 GMT -5
Denying Christ? Kindly point out such. More fake news from Review. Of course I'm here at the moment. I'm well informed. Will be watching the ongoing exposure of decades of deceit with much interest. Your response to the OP of this thread. "Ah, conversion stories. All fuzzy feeling. Make sure you read the paragraph "feeling the spirit for the first time". From a two-by-two system to another two-by-two system. But maybe still the wrong two-by-two system?" But 'oh no' ('wink wink nod nod') no denying Christ in the experience of those written of by you in your post!đ¤ˇââď¸ Wishing to dig yourself in even deeper?
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Post by elizabethcoleman on May 23, 2023 1:16:33 GMT -5
You seem to be putting your own strange interpration on things as usual.
Conversion to a particular group has no bearing on the legitimacy of the group converted to.
Workers love using conversion stories to prove they are the "right" group. Many false groups - ie JWs and LDS - also use these stories.
Any who genuinely convert to Christ will hopefully have faith solely in him, not in some manmade group and its rules.
Let him who boasts boast in the Lord, not in themselves or their religious group.
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Post by internationalstudies on May 23, 2023 11:42:00 GMT -5
Thanks Elizabeth, You've shown your true colours again for us here on this thread! It's too much, it 'sticks in your throat'. Christ, the work and influence of the Holy Spirit in the experience of those mentioned in the OP. How dare this happen to people in the cult where you wasted years of your life! đĄYour reality (which you are entitled to) is different: "form groups and then forums to support, encourage, debrief each other over wasted years in a cult.""hung around and continued to support and mentor the continual stream of exes""our loved ones and families are still in bondage to the group,"
love this one: "PS - I only come on here every few years, with long breaks inbetween. The rest of the time I am indeed living a very happy life far away from all this, and with true freedom in Christ."
TMB is place where the experience of those in the OP, and yours also, have voice! I know a few others who over the years, like you got a lot of steam up about 'the 2x2 cult' they once belonged to. Railed against it, told of the superior church and Christ that they had gone to, blah blah etc etc. But after a few years, matured, realised the futility of their actions and ran out of steam. You have 'a good head of steam up', I pick you'll keep it up for a while yet!đ đ
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Post by elizabethcoleman on May 23, 2023 18:16:03 GMT -5
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Post by openingact34 on May 23, 2023 19:31:22 GMT -5
This is what is happening in our church in 2023: (The church that a not small number of well-wisher/'hopeful optimist' TMB posters are predicting and hoping for the demise of its ministry and the 'cult' generally if possible!) 'Get them all back to mainline churches where Christ can be found.'
"A number of years ago two young people got married in atheist country that has limited freedom of religion. They had a family, things did not go well in their marriage and they were divorced. The young divorcee moved to a country where there is freedom of religion. She was interested in Christianity, and 'by chance' she met one of our the friends. As a result she attended gospel meetings. She listened, she believed and she found Christ and embraced him with all her heart. The years passed a child, now a young teenager made their personal commitment to Christ (the 'awful corrupted, all but finished workers' probably had some influence on her! ) The years passed, the ex husband went to this same country. He 'foolishly' started attending gospel meetings of the '2x2s' and their workers also . The Gospel of Jesus Christ began affecting his life also. He too in the course of time, let his commitment to following Jesus be known. " footnote These two have plans to renew/reaffirm the marriage vows they first made decades ago. A testimony to the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ and this transforming power working in lives in 2023!đ"
(In contrast to some posts on TMB ; these are true facts.) Cute story. Are they renewing vows because they actually love each other and are compatible? Or did the workers lay down the law and let them know that divorce and remarriage to anyone else was totally unacceptable and that their life options were: a) Remarry each other. b) Stay celibate and single until the other died.
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Post by chuck on May 23, 2023 21:31:14 GMT -5
Thanks Elizabeth, You've shown your true colours again for us here on this thread! It's too much, it 'sticks in your throat'. Christ, the work and influence of the Holy Spirit in the experience of those mentioned in the OP. How dare this happen to people in the cult where you wasted years of your life! đĄYour reality (which you are entitled to) is different: "form groups and then forums to support, encourage, debrief each other over wasted years in a cult.""hung around and continued to support and mentor the continual stream of exes""our loved ones and families are still in bondage to the group,"
love this one: Â "PS - I only come on here every few years, with long breaks inbetween. The rest of the time I am indeed living a very happy life far away from all this, and with true freedom in Christ." Â Â
TMB is place where the experience of those in the OP, and yours also, have voice! I know a few others who over the years, like you got a lot of steam up about 'the 2x2 cult' they once belonged to. Railed against it, told of the superior church and Christ that they had gone to, blah blah etc etc. But after a few years, matured, realised the futility of their actions and ran out of steam. You have 'a good head of steam up', I pick you'll keep it up for a while yet!đ đ It is your presupposition that it is Christ and the Holy Spirit. Take away the rituals and traditions that are fundemental to your presupposition and what is left........ The original intent of what it means to be Christian has nothing to do with your presuppositions. An Atheist can be a Christian as it is how you conduct your life,not what religous beliefs you hold and how passionately or fanatically you hold them. Jew greek slave free male or female, that's means you dont get to define who can display the Christ character, the beginnings of this idea come from a long time before that. Man was created in the image of God..........That's everyone, it does not say what people generally identify today as "Christians" are better than "Atheists" or that if you hold certain religious thoughts you are better than those who don't...... Jesus did not come to call the righteous, if you know anything about the Hebrew culture and language the righteous were indentified by their generous character, and not their religious convictions. Plenty of generous people who are nothing like your idea of "Christian" fit that defenition........
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Post by internationalstudies on May 23, 2023 22:25:09 GMT -5
 or 'home truths' to be faced up to, some time?đ¤ˇââď¸
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Post by themaninthemirror on May 24, 2023 5:08:27 GMT -5
You seem to be putting your own strange interpration on things as usual. Conversion to a particular group has no bearing on the legitimacy of the group converted to. Workers love using conversion stories to prove they are the "right" group. Many false groups - ie JWs and LDS - also use these stories. Any who genuinely convert to Christ will hopefully have faith solely in him, not in some manmade group and its rules. Let him who boasts boast in the Lord, not in themselves or their religious group. You are such a shining example of a life complete in Christ.
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Post by elizabethcoleman on May 24, 2023 17:58:56 GMT -5
themaninthemirror, Not sure what exactly your position is. You lambast those outside the group (exes) regarding CSA/SA issues, when in reality they're the ones holding the workers accountable. You appear to keep defending the workers who actually run the system and DO know what's been going down and yet have systemtically kept abuse hidden and kept moving abusers around. I know you're angry about all the abuse issues, but seem to be directing your anger at exes who are actually doing something about it, instead of at the workers who have perpetrated the abuse and hidden it. Stop supporting the system that is actually guilty, and legally liable for failure of mandatory reporting. Your post was also Ad Hominem. Failure to address the issues/topic.
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Post by margaret on May 24, 2023 19:31:40 GMT -5
This is what is happening in our church in 2023: (The church that  a not small  number of  well-wisher/'hopeful optimist' TMB posters are predicting and hoping for the demise of its ministry and the 'cult' generally if possible!) 'Get them all back to mainline churches where Christ can be found.' Â
"A number of years  ago two young  people got married in atheist country that has limited freedom of religion. They had a family, things did not go well in their marriage and they were divorced. The young divorcee moved to a country where there is freedom of religion. She was interested in Christianity, and 'by chance' she met one of our the friends. As a result she attended gospel meetings.  She listened, she believed and she found Christ and embraced him with all her heart. The years passed a child, now a young teenager made their personal commitment to Christ (the 'awful corrupted, all but finished workers' probably had some influence on her! ) The years passed, the ex husband  went to this same country. He 'foolishly'  started attending gospel meetings of the '2x2s' and their workers also . The Gospel of Jesus Christ  began affecting his life also. He too in the course of time, let his commitment to following Jesus be known. " footnote These two have plans to renew/reaffirm the marriage vows they first made decades ago. A testimony to the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ and this transforming power working in lives in 2023!đ"
(In contrast to some posts on TMB ; these are true facts.) How nice that this family has gotten back together and coming to meetings. Are they useful in the church? Are they caring for the members who are being left out and neglected? Are they caring for the poor? Are they cognizant of the judgments of God that were not abolished by the new testament? In other words, are they alive? Are they keeping up with the Jonesâs in the truth? Are they giving the workers money? Are they facing any form of persecution for following Jesus in loving and caring for the friends who DONâT go to meetings anymore? Do they even realize how this is a very great concern of Jesus? Are they being taught these things? Do they minister to the poor and forgotten and lonely and sick (both physically and mentally)and neglected? Obviously you are professing so you know that these things are just in a small measure an indication of whether or not someone is âpossessingâ and not just âprofessingâ. Itâs unlikely that the truth will wither away and die. Thereâs too much money changing hands behind the scenes and there will always be someone that loves money enough to keep up the charades. How nice for you to support things in the ministry and in the church that Jesus condemned. Iâm sure it gives you some kind of feeling like youâre defending the truth and you are. Youâre just not defending what the life and manner and teachings of Jesus is all about. I have nothing against the truth way by itself. Itâs the hierarchy and hidden things and neglect and self promotion and condescension and laziness and lavishness and many other things that brought grief to Jesus when he was on the earth. Things that you are angry at others for pointing these things out. The fact that you sympathize with systems in place in the truth that have done a helluva a lot of damage and do not represent the ways of Christ, is understandable because you cannot be âprofessingâ and not be leavened by the political class and corruption that has evolved in the truth. Youâre not a very good example of sheep whom the exes (Jesus refers to as the âlost sheep of the house of Israelâ) would feel comfortable being with in the fold. Here you are criticizing Elizabeth Coleman when you have more to be criticized yourself, especially considering YOU have âthe truthâ. You DO realize Jesus spoke the strongest words of disapproval to Godâs people (we call them friends) who went along with the majority of the priests (we call them workers), right? Thatâs a test question.
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Post by internationalstudies on May 24, 2023 23:39:27 GMT -5
themaninthemirror , Not sure what exactly your position is. You lambast those outside the group (exes) regarding CSA/SA issues, when in reality they're the ones holding the workers accountable. You appear to keep defending the workers who actually run the system and DO know what's been going down and yet have systemtically kept abuse hidden and kept moving abusers around. I know you're angry about all the abuse issues, but seem to be directing your anger at exes who are actually doing something about it, instead of at the workers who have perpetrated the abuse and hidden it. Stop supporting the system that is actually guilty, and legally liable for failure of mandatory reporting. Your post was also Ad Hominem. Failure to address the issues/topic. Elizabeth maninthemirrors position is clear! Are not your posts on this thread (never mind elsewhere) evidence of this? Elisabeth: 'home truths' to be faced up to.... some time?đ¤ˇââď¸
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Post by Grant on May 25, 2023 0:59:15 GMT -5
themaninthemirror , Not sure what exactly your position is. You lambast those outside the group (exes) regarding CSA/SA issues, when in reality they're the ones holding the workers accountable. You appear to keep defending the workers who actually run the system and DO know what's been going down and yet have systemtically kept abuse hidden and kept moving abusers around. I know you're angry about all the abuse issues, but seem to be directing your anger at exes who are actually doing something about it, instead of at the workers who have perpetrated the abuse and hidden it. Stop supporting the system that is actually guilty, and legally liable for failure of mandatory reporting. Your post was also Ad Hominem. Failure to address the issues/topic. Elizabeth maninthemirrors position is clear! Are not your posts on this thread (never mind elsewhere) evidence of this? Elisabeth: 'home truths' to be faced up to.... some time?đ¤ˇââď¸ Persecuting and attacking people for no reason. Very Christ like. I'd be ashamed if I was still attending meetings and a worker spoke like that.
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Post by themaninthemirror on May 25, 2023 7:00:18 GMT -5
themaninthemirror, Not sure what exactly your position is. You lambast those outside the group (exes) regarding CSA/SA issues, when in reality they're the ones holding the workers accountable. You appear to keep defending the workers who actually run the system and DO know what's been going down and yet have systemtically kept abuse hidden and kept moving abusers around. I know you're angry about all the abuse issues, but seem to be directing your anger at exes who are actually doing something about it, instead of at the workers who have perpetrated the abuse and hidden it. Stop supporting the system that is actually guilty, and legally liable for failure of mandatory reporting. Your post was also Ad Hominem. Failure to address the issues/topic. Shining again Elizabeth, brightly and gloriously. 1. False accusation. 2. False accusation. 3. True, then false accusation. 4. Random diversion. 5. Random diversion. It's not looking good, maybe use less of your emotions and show a little more grace.
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Post by snow on May 25, 2023 12:31:17 GMT -5
themaninthemirror, Not sure what exactly your position is. You lambast those outside the group (exes) regarding CSA/SA issues, when in reality they're the ones holding the workers accountable. You appear to keep defending the workers who actually run the system and DO know what's been going down and yet have systemtically kept abuse hidden and kept moving abusers around. I know you're angry about all the abuse issues, but seem to be directing your anger at exes who are actually doing something about it, instead of at the workers who have perpetrated the abuse and hidden it. Stop supporting the system that is actually guilty, and legally liable for failure of mandatory reporting. Your post was also Ad Hominem. Failure to address the issues/topic. Shining again Elizabeth, brightly and gloriously. 1. False accusation. 2. False accusation. 3. True, then false accusation. 4. Random diversion. 5. Random diversion. It's not looking good, maybe use less of your emotions and show a little more grace. Is there some reason why you attack? Compassion for those who have been harmed is a very Christlike trait. She has been harmed so why would she be pro 'F&W's church'.
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Post by themaninthemirror on May 25, 2023 12:38:35 GMT -5
Shining again Elizabeth, brightly and gloriously. 1. False accusation. 2. False accusation. 3. True, then false accusation. 4. Random diversion. 5. Random diversion. It's not looking good, maybe use less of your emotions and show a little more grace. Is there some reason why you attack? Compassion for those who have been harmed is a very Christlike trait. She has been harmed so why would she be pro 'F&W's church'. There seems to be a significant double standard. Her false accusations are just that, why is she allowed to falsely accuse and then in the next breathe claim to be a follower of Christ? I never said she should be pro anything, but she does claim to have found Christ and I am saying she doesn't demonstrate it. Where is her compassion? or is this the next double standard?
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Post by snow on May 25, 2023 12:55:14 GMT -5
Is there some reason why you attack? Compassion for those who have been harmed is a very Christlike trait. She has been harmed so why would she be pro 'F&W's church'. There seems to be a significant double standard. Her false accusations are just that, why is she allowed to falsely accuse and then in the next breathe claim to be a follower of Christ? I never said she should be pro anything, but she does claim to have found Christ and I am saying she doesn't demonstrate it. Where is her compassion? or is this the next double standard? What did she say that wasn't true?
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