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Post by jonathan on Jun 17, 2023 9:20:14 GMT -5
Bob and Stacey's requirements are fair and just.
Really shouldn't have been an issue.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Jun 17, 2023 10:25:56 GMT -5
Bob and Stacey's requirements are fair and just. Really shouldn't have been an issue. I so agree with Bob & Stacey’s statement . Straight forward regarding the safety on the convention grounds . THE UNWILLINGNESS OF THESE WORKERS SPEAKS VOLUMES ! The convention grounds has always been a sacred place to me . Not anymore . Again I am so glad my parents are not here to have their hearts shattered br]They don’t seem to be interested about the CSA/SA aspect during all of this nightmare as 2 more workers are being put out . If I was professing I would not got to convention period . Especially if I had children . I have fond memories of convention at Didsbury . When younger we were always in trailers coloring . We were not allowed to the barn till 12 years old .Even then many nights I stayed with my parents I had learnt the evil of some worker’s and I felt unsafe . THE WORKERS WANT THE POWER . Good on you Bob & Stacey for being very concerned and taking a stand !!!! Maybe a step forward for the friends , but you worker’s that did this are out of line . REMEMBER YOUR PLACE ! Just the fact buddy next to you on the chair’s could be a predator and you have no idea . The worker’s aren’t speaking for the sheep . They are overstepping their boundaries . In addition I have told RCMP about Didsbury dates for 1 & 2 . We are not going to allow workers to have preds there !
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Post by openingact34 on Jun 17, 2023 10:36:57 GMT -5
Bob and Stacey's requirements are fair and just. Really shouldn't have been an issue. The workers make the rules. PERIOD. Read the New Testament and think about how Paul or Peter would have reacted if they got a letter from one of the churches that laid out rules for visiting workers. They would have absolutely exploded in anger, and the rule makers would have probably ended up dead.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Jun 17, 2023 10:45:24 GMT -5
Sad 😢 really sad , that they continue to cover up all the deeds . It truly makes me ill 😷 . This in not an example of being a humble worker . Just power hunger overseers and staff whom simply don’t care for the young of the flock . Not all workers .
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Post by jonathan on Jun 17, 2023 11:15:24 GMT -5
What difference does a neutral venue make? Parents will still be restless about the safety of their children. Don't all the workers as shepherd's know that sheep and lambs feed when all is quiet, peaceful, still?
Why is it so important to the oversight to have fellowship with perpetrators? These are people who 1 Corinthians 5 says are to be cut off.
This is really very, very disappointing. If they want to have fellowship with immorality let it then be their own personal choice. Don't force it down the throats of victims abd those who are concerned for the safety of children.
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Post by snow on Jun 17, 2023 13:04:36 GMT -5
Pragmatic yet ANOTHER false statement from you. Quote my post that supports your above statement. Good. Are you going to do more about this than post about it as anonymous TMB poster? Have you suggested this to your fellow workers and your Overseer? This could be a good start. You're the only one on TMB who seems to have a problem with people posting anonymously. Get over it. Jonathan and the rest of us are free to post anonymously, no matter what you think about that. How do you think the evil can be purged from the ministry, so that your mission prospects can Google the church and actually have some respect for it? Actually that post doesn't say that Jonathan should identify himself. It asks him if he is going to do more than post anonymously. I took that to read, are you actually doing something off line in your field and not just posting here anonymously. I do agree though that he does have confront people for posting anonymously, but this time I don't think he was actually telling him to identify himself. It was still a dig though. Irony.
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Post by snow on Jun 17, 2023 13:15:58 GMT -5
What difference does a neutral venue make? Parents will still be restless about the safety of their children. Don't all the workers as shepherd's know that sheep and lambs feed when all is quiet, peaceful, still? Why is it so important to the oversight to have fellowship with perpetrators? These are people who 1 Corinthians 5 says are to be cut off. This is really very, very disappointing. If they want to have fellowship with immorality let it then be their own personal choice. Don't force it down the throats of victims abd those who are concerned for the safety of children. It's got nothing to do with a 'neutral setting'. It's got to do with the workers can still allow anyone they want to attend. Sure speaks volumes about who they are protecting and who matters more to them. Predators should not be allowed to attend where children are and if the workers cared about the adult survivors at all, they would also not allow them to be in meetings where a survivor is. But they are more concerned it appears, to support the attendance of these people and make sure the friends know who has the power. It makes a huge statement to the friends that if the friends put conditions on what the workers consider their domain, they will be shut down.
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Post by jonathan on Jun 17, 2023 13:44:50 GMT -5
What difference does a neutral venue make? Parents will still be restless about the safety of their children. Don't all the workers as shepherd's know that sheep and lambs feed when all is quiet, peaceful, still? Why is it so important to the oversight to have fellowship with perpetrators? These are people who 1 Corinthians 5 says are to be cut off. This is really very, very disappointing. If they want to have fellowship with immorality let it then be their own personal choice. Don't force it down the throats of victims abd those who are concerned for the safety of children. It's got nothing to do with a 'neutral setting'. It's got to do with the workers can still allow anyone they want to attend. Sure speaks volumes about who they are protecting and who matters more to them. Predators should not be allowed to attend where children are and if the workers cared about the adult survivors at all, they would also not allow them to be in meetings where a survivor is. But they are more concerned it appears, to support the attendance of these people and make sure the friends know who has the power. It makes a huge statement to the friends that if the friends put conditions on what the workers consider their domain, they will be shut down. I agree with you, snow. The hurt to the kingdom is actually every incident of any kind of abuse. Information about it, wherever on whatever platform, is not the hurt. MH and company should consider the hurt they cause the Kingdom with their carelessness and indifference, which have passed into the territory of gross negligence. Hardly the standard of behavior expected of a caring, loving and trustworthy custodian. Has it never crossed his mind that he is part of the problem? Has it never dawned on him that maybe he is an embarrassment to the doctrine and teachings he is supposed to uphold?
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Post by jonathan on Jun 17, 2023 13:47:53 GMT -5
What difference does a neutral venue make? Parents will still be restless about the safety of their children. Don't all the workers as shepherd's know that sheep and lambs feed when all is quiet, peaceful, still? Why is it so important to the oversight to have fellowship with perpetrators? These are people who 1 Corinthians 5 says are to be cut off. This is really very, very disappointing. If they want to have fellowship with immorality let it then be their own personal choice. Don't force it down the throats of victims abd those who are concerned for the safety of children. It's got nothing to do with a 'neutral setting'. It's got to do with the workers can still allow anyone they want to attend. Sure speaks volumes about who they are protecting and who matters more to them. Predators should not be allowed to attend where children are and if the workers cared about the adult survivors at all, they would also not allow them to be in meetings where a survivor is. But they are more concerned it appears, to support the attendance of these people and make sure the friends know who has the power. It makes a huge statement to the friends that if the friends put conditions on what the workers consider their domain, they will be shut down. I agree with you, snow. The hurt to the kingdom is actually every incident of any kind of abuse. Information about it, wherever on whatever platform, is not the hurt. MH and company should consider the hurt they cause the Kingdom with their carelessness and indifference, which have passed into the territory of gross negligence. Hardly the standard of behavior expected of a caring, loving and trustworthy custodian. Has it never crossed his mind that he is part of the problem? Has it never dawned on him that maybe he is an embarrassment to the doctrine and teachings he is supposed to uphold?
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Post by snow on Jun 17, 2023 13:56:16 GMT -5
It's got nothing to do with a 'neutral setting'. It's got to do with the workers can still allow anyone they want to attend. Sure speaks volumes about who they are protecting and who matters more to them. Predators should not be allowed to attend where children are and if the workers cared about the adult survivors at all, they would also not allow them to be in meetings where a survivor is. But they are more concerned it appears, to support the attendance of these people and make sure the friends know who has the power. It makes a huge statement to the friends that if the friends put conditions on what the workers consider their domain, they will be shut down. I agree with you, snow. The hurt to the kingdom is actually every incident of any kind of abuse. Information about it, wherever on whatever platform, is not the hurt. MH and company should consider the hurt they cause the Kingdom with their carelessness and indifference, which have passed into the territory of gross negligence. Hardly the standard of behavior expected of a caring, loving and trustworthy custodian. Has it never crossed his mind that he is part of the problem? Has it never dawned on him that maybe he is an embarrassment to the doctrine and teachings he is supposed to uphold? I don't think it has dawned on him. Some of them are so used to being obeyed absolutely that they think it's their right and that it's totally justified because they are God's enforcers on earth.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Jun 17, 2023 13:57:20 GMT -5
Nope he is incapable of such thoughts 💭 . I have written to MH but haven’t sent it yet . He is getting an earful from me I will post on here once I send it to him and MA . Not joking the RCMP ARE VERY AWARE OF THE THE DIDSBURY SPRUCE FARM , GROUNDS START IN JULY .
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Jun 17, 2023 14:18:46 GMT -5
It's got nothing to do with a 'neutral setting'. It's got to do with the workers can still allow anyone they want to attend. Sure speaks volumes about who they are protecting and who matters more to them. Predators should not be allowed to attend where children are and if the workers cared about the adult survivors at all, they would also not allow them to be in meetings where a survivor is. But they are more concerned it appears, to support the attendance of these people and make sure the friends know who has the power. It makes a huge statement to the friends that if the friends put conditions on what the workers consider their domain, they will be shut down. I agree with you, snow. The hurt to the kingdom is actually every incident of any kind of abuse. Information about it, wherever on whatever platform, is not the hurt. MH and company should consider the hurt they cause the Kingdom with their carelessness and indifference, which have passed into the territory of gross negligence. Hardly the standard of behavior expected of a caring, loving and trustworthy custodian. Has it never crossed his mind that he is part of the problem? Has it never dawned on him that maybe he is an embarrassment to the doctrine and teachings he is supposed to uphold? Probably not ! He was weird when I met him at young kids gathering . Dude stalked me and I didn’t get a good feeling about him.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Jun 17, 2023 14:41:10 GMT -5
Jun 17 People have noted that most of the abuse disclosures this year have been about North American overseers, workers and friends, but they have mentioned their hope that the growing transparency and engagement will spread to other continents. It is well-known that abuse is a global problem and no area is immune.
Unfortunately, this slow growth in transparency only occurred because brave people provided details of their abuse (sometimes anonymously, and sometimes with their names). This has given strength to others to also disclose their abuse, and to open the secrecy that was previously imposed on victims.
It has also been recognised that the secrecy of past cases allowed some perpetrators to continue their abuse, perhaps in a new area of unsuspecting people when they were silently shifted to a new field.
That secrecy may have been common in general society many years ago, but is no longer acceptable. Victims, perhaps from many years ago, are still living with the trauma. Their healing requires open acknowledgement of all historic cases so they can see that their hurt is recognised. In some cases, they can realise that they were not the only victim of their perpetrator.
WINGS has received reports of abuse in Europe, Latin America, Asia, Australasia and Africa.
Now is the time for those areas to provide reports that can be published by WINGS, so overseers and workers can face up to the need for radical change in treatment of abuse cases:
Sincere, individual apologies to all known victims Arrangements to fund therapy where required Past cases where perpetrators were protected and shifted are revisited Perpetrator attendance at meetings is reconsidered Zero-tolerance policies issued to all friends and workers Training, and regular updates, undertaken by all workers (male and female) WINGS notes that many people have recognised that the strict hierarchy of regional overseers expected to be guided by God has allowed dreadful actions, that could have been prevented or minimised if there was more involvement of elders, friends and females. WINGS advocates for past child victims, and protection of current/future children, but does not lobby for general change in the fellowship. That is the prerogative of the friends and workers.
Note: This post has consistently used the term ‘abuse’. It is intended to refer to both Child Sexual Abuse, and adult abuse, of all types.
THEN ADDRESS THE PROBLEM WORKERS AND START NEW WITH A YOUNGER GROUP OF WORKERS . Including some sister worker’s as overseers as well . I WILL GIVE THEM EXACTLY WHAT THEY GAVE TO MY DAUGHTER AND MYSELF NO MERCY !!!
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Post by jennyfromtheblock on Jun 17, 2023 15:24:46 GMT -5
It's got nothing to do with a 'neutral setting'. It's got to do with the workers can still allow anyone they want to attend. Sure speaks volumes about who they are protecting and who matters more to them. Predators should not be allowed to attend where children are and if the workers cared about the adult survivors at all, they would also not allow them to be in meetings where a survivor is. But they are more concerned it appears, to support the attendance of these people and make sure the friends know who has the power. It makes a huge statement to the friends that if the friends put conditions on what the workers consider their domain, they will be shut down. I agree with you, snow. The hurt to the kingdom is actually every incident of any kind of abuse. Information about it, wherever on whatever platform, is not the hurt. MH and company should consider the hurt they cause the Kingdom with their carelessness and indifference, which have passed into the territory of gross negligence. Hardly the standard of behavior expected of a caring, loving and trustworthy custodian. Has it never crossed his mind that he is part of the problem? Has it never dawned on him that maybe he is an embarrassment to the doctrine and teachings he is supposed to uphold? In Freeburn’s response to the Bainbridges he said they wouldn’t want Bob and Stacy to have to leave their own property, in the event that the workers would invite people to their property that the Bainbridges wouldn’t be comfortable with. I think the workers are a little bit on eggshells with the Bainbridges, as they should be, but this actually comes off extremely arrogant. It’s created an “us” vs “them” situation. There is no good will going towards rebuilding trust. It would’ve gone a long way in their favour (the workers) to find the humility to respect the stipulations. They could’ve said “we’re on the same side as you, we’re fighting for righteousness with you and we will ensure your requirements are followed.” Just eat their pride. Instead they’re creating a scenario for people to pick sides. Maybe they felt that’s what the Bainbridges were doing by sending out letters that would embarrass the ministry, but their response cemented it.
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Post by Pragmatic on Jun 17, 2023 15:38:25 GMT -5
I agree with you, snow. The hurt to the kingdom is actually every incident of any kind of abuse. Information about it, wherever on whatever platform, is not the hurt. MH and company should consider the hurt they cause the Kingdom with their carelessness and indifference, which have passed into the territory of gross negligence. Hardly the standard of behavior expected of a caring, loving and trustworthy custodian. Has it never crossed his mind that he is part of the problem? Has it never dawned on him that maybe he is an embarrassment to the doctrine and teachings he is supposed to uphold? In Freeburn’s response to the Bainbridges he said they wouldn’t want Bob and Stacy to have to leave their own property, in the event that the workers would invite people to their property that the Bainbridges wouldn’t be comfortable with. I think the workers are a little bit on eggshells with the Bainbridges, as they should be, but this actually comes off extremely arrogant. It’s created an “us” vs “them” situation. There is no good will going towards rebuilding trust. It would’ve gone a long way in their favour (the workers) to find the humility to respect the stipulations. They could’ve said “we’re on the same side as you, we’re fighting for righteousness with you and we will ensure your requirements are followed.” Just eat their pride. Instead they’re creating a scenario for people to pick sides. Maybe they felt that’s what the Bainbridges were doing by sending out letters that would embarrass the ministry, but their response cemented it. Exactly Jenny. I am wondering if we're seeing the beginnings of a power struggle here, with quite a few moving parts. Asset ownership on the convention ground is muddy, to say the least. Who owns what, and who has the say over what. The property is private, but the workers treat it as their's to dictate terms over.
I, for one, am not seeing signs of the humility they preach, but instead seeing arrogance couched in smarmy language. An old relative used to describe it as a gloved fist.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 17, 2023 17:43:32 GMT -5
By suggesting that Jonathan should do more about it than posting as an anonymous poster, is a very strong implication that you are critical of his anonymity, otherwise you would not have written it that way. You would have omitted any reference to his anonymity. You are showing to all here that coverups by overseers and other workers seem not to matter as much as straining at gnats. Careful with the camel lumps!
He wants to embarrass them in some manner.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 17, 2023 17:46:20 GMT -5
Wally and International make an interesting argument couple. No last words permitted.
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Post by elizabethcoleman on Jun 17, 2023 18:08:02 GMT -5
Wally and International make an interesting argument couple. No last words permitted. I think International may currently be preoccupied with going back through previous pseudonymns to delete past lies. Which ironically is gaslighting - his constant re-jigging of his own posts is designed to make people doubt past reality / memory.
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Post by jennyfromtheblock on Jun 17, 2023 19:15:17 GMT -5
In Freeburn’s response to the Bainbridges he said they wouldn’t want Bob and Stacy to have to leave their own property, in the event that the workers would invite people to their property that the Bainbridges wouldn’t be comfortable with. I think the workers are a little bit on eggshells with the Bainbridges, as they should be, but this actually comes off extremely arrogant. It’s created an “us” vs “them” situation. There is no good will going towards rebuilding trust. It would’ve gone a long way in their favour (the workers) to find the humility to respect the stipulations. They could’ve said “we’re on the same side as you, we’re fighting for righteousness with you and we will ensure your requirements are followed.” Just eat their pride. Instead they’re creating a scenario for people to pick sides. Maybe they felt that’s what the Bainbridges were doing by sending out letters that would embarrass the ministry, but their response cemented it. Exactly Jenny. I am wondering if we're seeing the beginnings of a power struggle here, with quite a few moving parts. Asset ownership on the convention ground is muddy, to say the least. Who owns what, and who has the say over what. The property is private, but the workers treat it as their's to dictate terms over.
I, for one, am not seeing signs of the humility they preach, but instead seeing arrogance couched in smarmy language. An old relative used to describe it as a gloved fist.
During Covid there was controversy whether people should meet in person or not. Everyone had a different idea of what should be done. There was a worker confiding in some friends about all the varying degrees of opinions that were being issued their way. They were speaking in general but made comments like “this isn’t YOUR meeting, it’s Gods meeting.” “This isn’t YOUR convention, it’s Gods convention.” At the time those statements didn’t really phase me, and for the most part I agree with them. Interesting that at the time that was how the workers felt towards the friends (or at least this one particular worker). Today I think we could flip those sentiments right back some of these workers. “you think this is YOUR convention? Actually, it’s Gods convention.”
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Post by internationalstudies on Jun 17, 2023 19:41:58 GMT -5
If you weren't being critical of Jonathan not putting his last name, or full name, then maybe instead of posting "Are you going to do more about this than post about it as anonymous TMB poster?" you could have posted, "Are you going to do more about this than post about it?" Under a previous pseudonym, did you not refer to yourself as picking up grandkids from school? The implication being, your Grandkids? I didn't know of any workers in our country having Grandkids? If my memory is right, then, was that not a lie? prags, a note of appreciation for your (unsoliticed) advice. thank you so much for taking the time and effort to do so. oh yes " I could have posted "...blah blah blah you say. Are you kidding? Your temerity/gall! When I see honesty and integrity in your posting, your 'kind advice' for me will mean something.
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Post by Grant on Jun 17, 2023 20:06:57 GMT -5
Exactly Jenny. I am wondering if we're seeing the beginnings of a power struggle here, with quite a few moving parts. Asset ownership on the convention ground is muddy, to say the least. Who owns what, and who has the say over what. The property is private, but the workers treat it as their's to dictate terms over.
I, for one, am not seeing signs of the humility they preach, but instead seeing arrogance couched in smarmy language. An old relative used to describe it as a gloved fist.
During Covid there was controversy whether people should meet in person or not. Everyone had a different idea of what should be done. There was a worker confiding in some friends about all the varying degrees of opinions that were being issued their way. They were speaking in general but made comments like “this isn’t YOUR meeting, it’s Gods meeting.” “This isn’t YOUR convention, it’s Gods convention.” At the time those statements didn’t really phase me, and for the most part I agree with them. Interesting that at the time that was how the workers felt towards the friends (or at least this one particular worker). Today I think we could flip those sentiments right back some of these workers. “you think this is YOUR convention? Actually, it’s Gods convention.” I got told that convention grounds are, Holy Ground.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 17, 2023 20:10:36 GMT -5
During Covid there was controversy whether people should meet in person or not. Everyone had a different idea of what should be done. There was a worker confiding in some friends about all the varying degrees of opinions that were being issued their way. They were speaking in general but made comments like “this isn’t YOUR meeting, it’s Gods meeting.” “This isn’t YOUR convention, it’s Gods convention.” At the time those statements didn’t really phase me, and for the most part I agree with them. Interesting that at the time that was how the workers felt towards the friends (or at least this one particular worker). Today I think we could flip those sentiments right back some of these workers. “you think this is YOUR convention? Actually, it’s Gods convention.” I got told that convention grounds are, Holy Ground. I have heard that too. Do you recall many years ago there was a forced change of ownership of Pukekohe convention grounds because the son of the owner was deemed to be an idiot. His only issue was that he was a bad stutterer.I think this would be 1960's 0\or 70's
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Jun 17, 2023 20:18:19 GMT -5
I got told that convention grounds are, Holy Ground. I have heard that too. Do you recall many years ago there was a forced change of ownership of Pukekohe convention grounds because the son of the owner was deemed to be an idiot. His only issue was that he was a bad stutterer.I think this would be 1960's 0\or 70's Yes holy or sacred ground .
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Post by fixit on Jun 17, 2023 20:21:44 GMT -5
What difference does a neutral venue make? Parents will still be restless about the safety of their children. Don't all the workers as shepherd's know that sheep and lambs feed when all is quiet, peaceful, still? Why is it so important to the oversight to have fellowship with perpetrators? These are people who 1 Corinthians 5 says are to be cut off. This is really very, very disappointing. If they want to have fellowship with immorality let it then be their own personal choice. Don't force it down the throats of victims abd those who are concerned for the safety of children. It's interesting to see who is in charge... Dale, Ray and Jonathan.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 17, 2023 20:28:09 GMT -5
I have heard that too. Do you recall many years ago there was a forced change of ownership of Pukekohe convention grounds because the son of the owner was deemed to be an idiot. His only issue was that he was a bad stutterer.I think this would be 1960's 0\or 70's Yes holy or sacred ground . Thanks, have the owners of the rented property been informed that there will be sexual predators and those that hide them on their facility?
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Post by jennyfromtheblock on Jun 17, 2023 20:29:27 GMT -5
I got told that convention grounds are, Holy Ground. I have heard that too. Do you recall many years ago there was a forced change of ownership of Pukekohe convention grounds because the son of the owner was deemed to be an idiot. His only issue was that he was a bad stutterer.I think this would be 1960's 0\or 70's Because their son was an idiot? I don’t know how I’m not supposed to laugh at that. That’s a ridiculous story but I believe it. The convention grounds are holy ground? Never heard that. What does that actually mean? Lots of crimes committed on holy ground apparently. We don’t believe in church buildings, those are only for corrupt organized religions. But we do believe in tents and quonsets on holy ground.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 17, 2023 20:34:47 GMT -5
I have heard that too. Do you recall many years ago there was a forced change of ownership of Pukekohe convention grounds because the son of the owner was deemed to be an idiot. His only issue was that he was a bad stutterer.I think this would be 1960's 0\or 70's Because their son was an idiot? I don’t know how I’m not supposed to laugh at that. That’s a ridiculous story but I believe it. The convention grounds are holy ground? Never heard that. What does that actually mean? Lots of crimes committed on holy ground apparently. We don’t believe in church buildings, those are only for corrupt organized religions. But we do believe in tents and quonsets on holy ground. It was a bad look for the workers to have this person on convention grounds. It's much more important to have sexual predators at convention.
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Post by getreal on Jun 17, 2023 20:45:20 GMT -5
Topic adjustment but have you all read through the code of conduct for workers being in homes? If you have been a worker and you read this you will wonder how it will ever work in real life. So you are sitting in the living room and a child walks in…you are supposed to? Being in friends homes will never be the same again. How could anyone relax and be themselves in a good way under these circumstances. Same with convention. Convention used to be a refuge from the ‘world.’ Now its a place fraught with potential danger. Kids sleeping in the barn? No. Kids running around and parents not needing their children within sight lines at all times? No. This will never be the same in the only way that made it special.
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