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Post by Grant on Jun 15, 2023 19:20:13 GMT -5
The workers have tried from early on to set up an elite group of followers by claiming they are the true servants and those within the group as being in the fold.
They've even gone as far as to call themselves the truth. By doing this they have shut out the millions of Christians over the years by trying to claim their little group is right and all others wrong. You are safe within the fold which is run and held together by the hierarchy. The blind leading the blind.
Their pride and power have fallen. The fruits of their labor has been exposed.
Their vow of celibacy has fallen. It's left the door open wide where anything goes and nothing but their own needs matter. If they won't do something to stop it then the law will. The victims have spoken.
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Post by internationalstudies on Jun 16, 2023 11:50:48 GMT -5
Another 'good shot', typical fixit post!đ¤ˇââď¸ But it doesn't at all address the corner you have backed yourself into. You called on me "Please show the courage of your convictions and stop posting as an anonymous TMB poster."
Do first what you have asked me to do : I absolutely will post under my own name...once you do what you have asked me to do. But no, you will further obfuscate, make excuses, try to distract,beat around the bush and.. not do what you are asking me to do!
I've called your bluff. The 'meeting in his home' fixit and the TMB fixit, two different people. You are kidding me. You called out Jonathan for anonymity, Fixit called you out on the same, since your started it, and now you're trying to hijack this thread.
You refer to him as two different people - look in the mirror. What would those people sitting in subjection at Special Meetings really think of you posting like that on here about an elder? Two different people?
What a convoluted attempt to justify and deflect from fixit's hypocrisy! Reminds me of Mike Pence's recent 'pretzel' on Trump's behalf!
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Post by Pragmatic on Jun 16, 2023 17:59:04 GMT -5
You are kidding me. You called out Jonathan for anonymity, Fixit called you out on the same, since your started it, and now you're trying to hijack this thread.
You refer to him as two different people - look in the mirror. What would those people sitting in subjection at Special Meetings really think of you posting like that on here about an elder? Two different people?
What a convoluted attempt to justify and deflect from fixit's hypocrisy! Reminds me of Mike Pence's recent 'pretzel' on Trump's behalf! Nothing convoluted about it.
The hypocrisy is yours for first suggesting Jonathan should post under his own name - own it.
Now stop trying to pollute the thread with your attacks on others inside the tent. The thread is about how to manage cover-ups by workers and overseers, and you have contributed nothing positive towards this. If anything, by doing what you are doing, you are engaging in the same way, by attempting to distract people on here from discussing the issue at hand.
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Post by internationalstudies on Jun 16, 2023 23:26:54 GMT -5
What a convoluted attempt to justify and deflect from fixit's hypocrisy! Reminds me of Mike Pence's recent 'pretzel' on Trump's behalf! Nothing convoluted about it.
The hypocrisy is yours for first suggesting Jonathan should post under his own name - own it.
Pragmatic yet ANOTHER false statement from you. Quote my post that supports your above statement.
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Post by getreal on Jun 16, 2023 23:40:05 GMT -5
You are kidding me. You called out Jonathan for anonymity, Fixit called you out on the same, since your started it, and now you're trying to hijack this thread.
You refer to him as two different people - look in the mirror. What would those people sitting in subjection at Special Meetings really think of you posting like that on here about an elder? Two different people?
What a convoluted  attempt to justify and deflect from  fixit's hypocrisy! Reminds me of Mike Pence's recent 'pretzel' on Trump's behalf! I have no idea or interest in what yâall are talking about. But mike pence compared to a pretzel đĽłđĽłđĽłđĽłđĽł. Love that. The guy makes me ill.
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Post by fixit on Jun 16, 2023 23:49:31 GMT -5
Nothing convoluted about it. The hypocrisy is yours for first suggesting Jonathan should post under his own name - own it.
Pragmatic yet ANOTHER false statement from you. Quote my post that supports your above statement. Good. Are you going to do more about this than post about it as anonymous TMB poster? Have you suggested this to your fellow workers and your Overseer? This could be a good start. You're the only one on TMB who seems to have a problem with people posting anonymously. Get over it. Jonathan and the rest of us are free to post anonymously, no matter what you think about that. How do you think the evil can be purged from the ministry, so that your mission prospects can Google the church and actually have some respect for it?
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Post by internationalstudies on Jun 17, 2023 0:07:30 GMT -5
Fixit Your meaningless empty insults are 'water off a duck's back to me. The only meaningful thing they do is show you again for what you are.
You and pragmatic keep posting all day long, it doesn't change the truth that I did not tell Jonathan to stop posting anonymously. I suggested he speak what he posts on TMB to his fellow workers! That would be a 'good start' (a term he used). Let's see what your next attempt to justify your misrepresentation/ falsehood is. I'll look again in a couple days and refute the next lot of untruth and nonsense you come up with.
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Post by getreal on Jun 17, 2023 0:17:53 GMT -5
This is so boring! Can we move onto something else?
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 17, 2023 1:05:10 GMT -5
Fixit Ignoring your meaningless insults I've called your bluff again and shown your attempt again to put 'spin' on what I have posted to support the misrepresentation that pragmatic has made. You and pragmatic keep posting all day, it does change the truth. Let's what your next attempt to justify your spin and misrepresentation/ falsehood is. I'll look again in a couple days and AGAIN refute and expose your and pragmatic's spin and misrepresentation.By the way, do you hold gospel meetings?
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 17, 2023 1:06:26 GMT -5
This is so boring! Can we move onto something else? I think he fancies himself some kind of investigator. Don't tell him your name - who knows what he'd do with it.
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Post by Dan on Jun 17, 2023 1:07:31 GMT -5
This is so boring! Can we move onto something else?
Agree, its tedious arguing over who's who and challenging people to identify themselves. Not to mention
What to do with Overseer's or Workers that ignored or covered-up a crime or other sexual indiscretions?
1. Forgive them (Matthew 6:14-15) 2. Remove them from their decision making position. 3. In the case of CSA, charge them with being complicit. 4. Train everyone to recognize an abusive co-worker or Friend and report a potential problem.
I personally think that in a case where multiple complaints were lodged, it should be construed as contributing to SA since they were content to cover-up the problem by moving the Worker elsewhere.
The out-of-sight, out-of-mind response is totally irresponsible. If covering for an abuser created more victims, they are part of the problem not the solution.
Maybe Workers shouldn't be in charge of such matters altogether. A separate panel could be set-up to review and handle all future allegations of S.A.. Many Workers aren't too savvy in regards to worldly problems and don't seem to exercise the professional expertise necessary to deal with sexual abuse. They seem to think that a brief lecture will persuade and influence an abuser to repent, turn over a new leaf, and get a fresh start. But a pro would know that a leopard doesn't change its spots, and neither does a pervert, at least not without some serious psychotherapy.
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Post by guest8 on Jun 17, 2023 1:18:39 GMT -5
This is so boring! Can we move onto something else? I think he fancies himself some kind of investigator. Don't tell him your name - who knows what he'd do with it. ...reminds me of the child performing in the supermarket yesterday. Mum said "no lollies today". But....no reasoning would suffice, the child cried, "I want ..I want" for the hext 20mins in the building.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2023 1:43:08 GMT -5
Nothing convoluted about it.
The hypocrisy is yours for first suggesting Jonathan should post under his own name - own it.
Pragmatic yet ANOTHER false statement from you. Quote my post that supports your above statement. Prag did not make a false statement...gaslighting won't help you here...
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Post by internationalstudies on Jun 17, 2023 2:40:15 GMT -5
Pragmatic yet ANOTHER false statement from you. Quote my post that supports your above statement. Prag did not make a false statement...gaslighting won't help you here... Wally reread the posts, you'll see pragmatic has made a false statement, misrepresenting what I said. I posted (to Jonathan) Good. "Are you going to do more about this than post about it as anonymous TMB poster? Have you suggested this to your fellow workers and your Overseer? This could be a good start."
fixit posted "Please show the courage of your convictions and stop posting as an anonymous TMB poster."
to which I responded: "I will follow your lead! Absolutely I will."Now Wally please explain how I have gaslighted.
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Post by internationalstudies on Jun 17, 2023 3:42:27 GMT -5
I understand it to be decent and right that Jonathan as well as posting anonymously here: Not really sure if there are any of the current o/s who really walk the talk on zero tolerance. We've seen some who wrote about it, but then at the same time it comes to light they still have some tolerances. One suggestion would be for staffs and o/s to refuse to invite or have such o/s or workers who are complicit in cover-ups, or who don't act like they stand for zero tolerance on all forms of abuse, to conventions or special mtgs in their province/state/country. This could be a good start."That he also go and speak with his fellow workers about it. That is how I live anyway. But fixit, then pragmatic, margaret, enuf, bob Williston, wally etc etc don't see it this way. They have each in their own way raised various red herrings and diversions from this principle. So be it. đ¤ˇââď¸ It's quite revealing all the fuss and upset on Jonathan's behalf by the above.
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Post by Pragmatic on Jun 17, 2023 4:06:53 GMT -5
By suggesting that Jonathan should do more about it than posting as an anonymous poster, is a very strong implication that you are critical of his anonymity, otherwise you would not have written it that way. You would have omitted any reference to his anonymity.
You are showing to all here that coverups by overseers and other workers seem not to matter as much as straining at gnats. Careful with the camel lumps!
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Post by guest8 on Jun 17, 2023 4:45:02 GMT -5
I understand it to be decent and right that Jonathan as well as posting anonymously here: Not really sure if there are any of the current o/s who really walk the talk on zero tolerance. We've seen some who wrote about it, but then at the same time it comes to light they still have some tolerances. One suggestion would be for staffs and o/s to refuse to invite or have such o/s or workers who are complicit in cover-ups, or who don't act like they stand for zero tolerance on all forms of abuse, to conventions or special mtgs in their province/state/country. This could be a good start."That he also go and speak with his fellow workers about it. That is how I live anyway. But fixit, then pragmatic, margaret, enuf, bob Williston, wally etc etc don't see it this way. They have each in their own way raised various red herrings and diversions from this principle. So be it. đ¤ˇââď¸ It's quite revealing all the fuss and upset on Jonathan's behalf by the above. The first time I read your post seems ages ago now, I felt the inference was that all Jonathan is doing is posting as an annonymous TMB poster instead of being upfront & talking directly to fellow workers. Lacking courage to be upfront in person. If I may say so, it reeked of sarcasm. I read now, after countless back and forth stuff, a change to your wording, by saying - â as well as posting anonymously here that he go and speak to his fellow workers about it â
That brings in a different meaning from what was conveyed originally. It perhaps, was not necessary to emphasise to âpaste anonymouslyâ ( as it goes without saying that is how TMB operates) , and would have been better ( decent and right are your words) to have simply written â Have you suggested this to your fellow workers?â. On the face of it, I dont see it unreasonable, that this misleading statement combined with your previous attitude conveyed in posts to Jonathan, created the understanding posters gathered from it. IMO, it would have been more gracious & mature to have said at the beginning, âI wrote that wrong and this is what I meantââŚâŚ. Instead of dragging it out & many posts later deciding to change the wording. Now I'm off to tune-out & watch Netflix! Cheers
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Post by internationalstudies on Jun 17, 2023 4:53:58 GMT -5
I understand it to be decent and right that Jonathan as well as posting anonymously here: Not really sure if there are any of the current o/s who really walk the talk on zero tolerance. We've seen some who wrote about it, but then at the same time it comes to light they still have some tolerances. One suggestion would be for staffs and o/s to refuse to invite or have such o/s or workers who are complicit in cover-ups, or who don't act like they stand for zero tolerance on all forms of abuse, to conventions or special mtgs in their province/state/country. This could be a good start."That he also go and speak with his fellow workers about it. That is how I live anyway. But fixit, then pragmatic, margaret, enuf, bob Williston, wally etc etc don't see it this way. They have each in their own way raised various red herrings and diversions from this principle. So be it. đ¤ˇââď¸ It's quite revealing all the fuss and upset on Jonathan's behalf by the above. The first time I read your post seems ages ago now, I felt the inference was that all Jonathan is doing is posting as an annonymous TMB poster instead of being upfront & talking directly to fellow workers. Lacking courage to be upfront in person. If I may say so, it reeked of sarcasm. I read now, after countless back and forth stuff, a change to your wording, by saying - â as well as posting anonymously here that he go and speak to his fellow workers about it â
That brings in a different meaning from what was conveyed originally. It perhaps, was not necessary to emphasise to âpaste anonymouslyâ ( as it goes without saying that is how TMB operates) , and would have been better ( decent and right are your words) to have simply written â Have you suggested this to your fellow workers?â. On the face of it, I dont see it unreasonable, that this misleading statement combined with your previous attitude conveyed in posts to Jonathan, created the understanding posters gathered from it. IMO, it would have been more gracious & mature to have said at the beginning, âI wrote that wrong and this is what I meantââŚâŚ. Instead of dragging it out & many posts later deciding to change the wording. Now I'm off to tune-out & watch Netflix! Cheers Jun 14, 2023 at 6:57pm jonathan said: Not really sure if there are any of the current o/s who really walk the talk on zero tolerance. We've seen some who wrote about it, but then at the same time it comes to light they still have some tolerances.
One suggestion would be for staffs and o/s to refuse to invite or have such o/s or workers who are complicit in cover-ups, or who don't act like they stand for zero tolerance on all forms of abuse, to conventions or special mtgs in their province/state/country. I responded
"Good, Are you going to do more about this than post about it as anonymous TMB poster? Have you suggested this to your fellow workers and your Overseer? This could be a good start."
What is not clear?
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Post by internationalstudies on Jun 17, 2023 5:04:15 GMT -5
What is clear is that: fixit then posted Please show the courage of your convictions and stop posting as an anonymous TMB poster.
and I responded
Ok, you are calling on me to show the courage my convictions. But what about you! I will follow your lead!
Then it was fixit obfuscating and trying everything in his book to not do what he had asked me to do. đ¤ˇââď¸
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2023 5:06:04 GMT -5
Prag did not make a false statement...gaslighting won't help you here... Wally reread the posts, you'll see pragmatic has made a false statement, misrepresenting what I said. I posted (to Jonathan) Good. "Are you going to do more about this than post about it as anonymous TMB poster? Have you suggested this to your fellow workers and your Overseer? This could be a good start."
fixit posted "Please show the courage of your convictions and stop posting as an anonymous TMB poster."
to which I responded: "I will follow your lead! Absolutely I will."Now Wally please explain how I have gaslighted.Those are not the only posts you have made about that and also to Johnathan. So, you've graduated from gaslighting to full on lying. Kudo's. Quick now go delete as many of those other posts as you can before others see...OOPS some have already quoted you on those too bad so sad...
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Post by internationalstudies on Jun 17, 2023 5:09:41 GMT -5
Wally Please list/quote the posts I have made where
a) I have used gaslighting (Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse in which a person or group causes someone to question their own sanity, memories, or perception of reality. b) I have lied
Thanks.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2023 5:11:49 GMT -5
What is clear is that: fixit then posted Please show the courage of your convictions and stop posting as an anonymous TMB poster.and I responded Ok, you are calling on me to show the courage my convictions.But what about you! I will follow your lead!Then it was fixit obfuscating and trying everything in his book to not do what he had asked me to do. đ¤ˇââď¸
You are flailing like a drowning person, best course of action when that happens is to let you go under until you go limp, then do the rescue...
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Post by internationalstudies on Jun 17, 2023 5:12:59 GMT -5
Wally Please list/quote the posts I have made where
a) I have used gaslighting (Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse in which a person or group causes someone to question their own sanity, memories, or perception of reality. b) I have lied
Thanks.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2023 5:14:42 GMT -5
Wally Please list/quote the posts I have made where a) I have gaslighted b) I have lied Thanks. You don't know how to use the TMB feature to view your past posts? It can go back several hundred posts. Might take a gander yourself. In the meantime pound sand...
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Post by Pragmatic on Jun 17, 2023 5:22:27 GMT -5
If you weren't being critical of Jonathan not putting his last name, or full name, then maybe instead of posting "Are you going to do more about this than post about it as anonymous TMB poster?" you could have posted, "Are you going to do more about this than post about it?"
Under a previous pseudonym, did you not refer to yourself as picking up grandkids from school? The implication being, your Grandkids? I didn't know of any workers in our country having Grandkids? If my memory is right, then, was that not a lie?
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Jun 17, 2023 8:27:53 GMT -5
They do stuff like this . This is absolutely unbelievable , well not really They certainly donât want to be making sure of unsafe workers Woodstock convention cancelledâŚ.again In May 2023 WINGS posted a letter from the Woodstock convention ground owners. See wingsfortruth.info/2023/05/06/email-from-bob-and-stacy-bainbridge-re-worker-abuse-and-lack-of-transparency/The workers then cancelled the 2023 Woodstock convention: wingsfortruth.info/2023/05/07/woodstock-2023-convention-cancelled-punishment/However this was subsequently reversed: Dear staff, Could you please pass this on to the friends in your field. Last Sunday we sent an email saying that this year there wouldnât be any convention at Woodstock, but instead we would have a second convention at Napan. Afterwards, we were not comfortable with that decision, and we realized that we sent that word out too hastily. We do plan to have the convention at Woodstock, and we will let you know about the exact format when we have had more time to discuss it. We are sorry for any sorrow or distress this lack of consistency may have caused Thank you and all the best. Your brothers, Dale, Ray and Jonathan. Subsequent correspondence from the workers included an annoucement that a three dayConvention would actually be held: wingsfortruth.info/2023/05/20/woodstock-convention-update-may-20-2023/The convention ground owners then issued Stipulations for preps and convention @ Woodstock NB *Convicted, reported or suspected abusers are Not welcome on our property. *Those that have participated in moving abusive workers to other fields are not welcome. *If any of the above offenders show up on our property they will be told to leave. If there is refusal to leave we will call the RCMP. *If we find out after preps and convention that one of these abusers was present we will report to the RCMP. *There will be no WiFi provided. *The walking trails that are normally made available will be off limits. *Be Kind and Considerate of one and other so we all can be safe and comfortable Any abusive language or behavior will not be tolerated, you will be told to leave. This is our request to have sent out by you to all friends in the Maritimes and Maine before the Start of preps. A reminder of this letter will be made at the beginning of convention by you also. Bob and Stacy Jonathan Freeburn has now responded: Dear Bob and Stacy, Thanks for your email We have been thinking a lot about the convention also. I think you are right about your first point; we have already asked any people with allegations against them in the past to not come to the convention. Even with that, we really think that it will be difficult to have the meetings there at your place without causing some kind of distress or conflict. We feel like we canât really be sure to arrange the meetings there in a way that makes you feel at ease. As well, there are others who usually come there for convention, but they donât feel comfortable coming. I donât think it is right for you to have to leave during the time that we are there, and I would not want to have invited someone there causing you to feel like your principles have been violated This situation has put many in bondage, so we have looked into getting a neutral location in a hall near Fredericton where we can have the meetings. There is a hall which is available from Friday to Sunday. There is room and facilities to have the meetings there. All things considered, it seems best for this year. We do hope that we can have a profitable time together, and that you will feel free to be there also. All the best, and hope to see you in a couple of weeks.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Jun 17, 2023 8:33:07 GMT -5
Happy Saturday everyone 3 new letters up 2 more put out 1 Convention gets shut All on wings
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meg1
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Post by meg1 on Jun 17, 2023 9:09:37 GMT -5
"This situation has put many in bondage, so we have looked into getting a neutral location in a hall near Fredericton where we can have the meetings. "
I am trying to understand the use of the word bondage. Does that mean the attendees cannot be free without wifi? Or does being bound by these conditions prevent the oversee-ers from being free to attend? And will the neutral location offer sanctuary for the perpetrators of on-going crimes and trauma abuse. That does not sound neutral to me. The survivors will once again be put into bondage to the trauma response placed upon them by the abusers.
I dont know how to support Bob and Stacy Bainbridge other than with words. So I will say this. Your actions are very honourable and principled. I know it must be very difficult to stand firm as the power of the workers is used against you. You are making a difference and your actions are applauded around the world.
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