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Post by Vinny T. on May 7, 2023 12:06:47 GMT -5
Why do you think the 250+ perps are workers? This is something that I have been trying to get clarified. It is only natural that people without really thinking about it, assume the 250+ perps quoted are workers. This is because the main topic of conversation since the Dean Bruer case exploded onto the scene, is the amount of CSA perpetrators that are in the 2x2 ministry. When we get figures like 250+ perps thrown around, many assume this refers to workers. This figure, if true, requires to be put into context at an early opportunity, as it is extremely unlikely this figure relates to workers only, bearing in mind the total number of workers worldwide. The categories include the following: 1) How many are/were male workers at the time of the offences? 2) How many are/were female workers at the time of the offences? 3) How many are/were Elders in the 2x2 sect? 4) How many are/were members of the 2x2 laity? 5) How many were family matters? 6) Other? Further categories may include: 1) How many occurred in the home and sub-categorized by the above. 2) How many occurred at or near convention grounds etc Vinz posted the following recently. I think it is fairly clear he had the workers in mind? Math is not your strong suit lol. 250 "known" people not the total a very easy 500 in the US alone. But we will go with 250 right now. So now add 200 "known" for each country of approximate size. Canada, Russia, Africa, South America etc and you have far over 1,000 easily including. Low balling won't help the situation. Or lower it to 100 per country or even 50 and you have a very large number. Dean Bruer along with all the 9thers stepping down/out/off/to the side there is a big wave of reality coming for people. OH Lil Molehill you are cute in your ineptitude aren't you? Wow again you baffle me. I'm amazed you could ask these questions. Let's break down you "questions" Just wow. 1) How many are/were male workers at the time of the of fences? 2) How many are/were female workers at the time of the offences? 3) How many are/were Elders in the 2x2 sect? 4) How many are/were members of the 2x2 laity? 5) How many were family matters? 6) Other? Further categories may include: 1) How many occurred in the home and sub-categorized by the above. 2) How many occurred at or near convention grounds NO one can answer these questions and break down the demographics, ages, sexes, level of involvement in the 2x2s, locations of the incidents and all those being investigated are charged and known. Duh. It will be a long time until those questions can be answered. You are asking g about specifics of the crimes and those who t be known until they are chsrged/convicted and the details are made public. That's not how the world works bub. You can want to know til your Lil hearts content but you can't know these things yet. You can guess all you want but as I've said many times yet you people have a hard time understanding. Police don't speak about ongoing investigations because it can compromise the investigations. Maybe you should do some research so you understand how things work. Then when someone says something that is familiar with Police procedures it doesn't sound like I'm reporting a Bigfoot sighting. Oh wait let me guess this will be deemed an emotional response. It's actually not it's Sarcasm to prove a point and said in jest. |
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Post by Vinny T. on May 7, 2023 12:29:21 GMT -5
One can't know any details about all those being investigated until they are charged/convicted. So this is quite literally a non sensical and illogical question. NO one can know of any details being investigated: 1) If any have brothers who have rode the loch Ness monster 2) If any have done the crimes while eating pancakes 3) How many are women who dared to wear pants 4) How many are me who wear dresses 5) How many did the crimes in the morning or if the preferred the cover of night. 6) How many chose cheeseburgers over steak for the preferred celebrity meal when they are caught and get moved to a new area of victims for the third time without being charged or reported. 7) How many just really don't like CNN and prefer Fox until Tucker Carlson got fired and now they are upset and going to a new News source that their next door neighbor recommended. ***How many are teachers, have pet snails, have pet rocks, like cat videos, like anime, really don't like Biden, how many braid the armpit hair, what type of car they drive to commit their crimes, etc. So until these people are known and the details are made public NO ONE can know the details of their lives, the details of their crimes or the scope of their victims reported or otherwise. Sorry there Lil Molehill you can't know these things yet sorry. |
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Post by mountain on May 7, 2023 12:38:23 GMT -5
One can't know any details about all those being investigated until they are charged/convicted. So this is quite literally a non sensical and illogical question. NO one can know of any details being investigated: 1) If any have brothers who have rode the loch Ness monster 2) If any have done the crimes while eating pancakes 3) How many are women who dared to wear pants 4) How many are me who wear dresses 5) How many did the crimes in the morning or if the preferred the cover of night. 6) How many chose cheeseburgers over steak for the preferred celebrity meal when they are caught and get moved to a new area of victims for the third time without being charged or reported. 7) How many just really don't like CNN and prefer Fox until Tucker Carlson got fired and now they are upset and going to a new News source that their next door neighbor recommended. ***How many are teachers, have pet snails, have pet rocks, like cat videos, like anime, really don't like Biden, how many braid the armpit hair, what type of car they drive to commit their crimes, etc. So until these people are known and the details are made public NO ONE can know the details of their lives, the details of their crimes or the scope of their victims reported or otherwise. Sorry there Lil Molehill you can't know these things yet sorry. Sorry Vinz, but the manner of your responses and posting in general, explains exactly why people are very sceptical about the information you provide. It hardly makes for productive dialogue in these very serious matters. I like the pet snails bit though! Nice thoughtful touch. |
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Post by Vinny T. on May 7, 2023 12:58:57 GMT -5
All perps I'm referring to have to do with rape and pedophilia ONLY. So you can attest that the 250+ figure referred to, relates solely to rape and paedophilia cases? This is the kind of stat that I am looking for.Please don't start with me. If you want the info calculate it yourself. If you present extraordinary claims please expect to be asked questions on such, even if only for clarification and verification. I cannot make calculations on information that I do not have. You are the one who is presenting it and as a result you are quite rightly being questioned on it. If you don't want people to start on you by asking valid questions, then don't post in the first place. Remember there is a sect that doesn't like to be asked questions as well. People who do ask them questions are labelled as having a bad spirit, or a rebel. ANY info I give will be scrutinized, reputed and so on anyway. I'm glad you recognise this. It is an absolute fact. If your info stands up to scrutiny you have much to gain by way of credibility and establishing yourself as a trusted source of truthful information.
If you want hard facts then do the stats yourself, you are obviously superior in statistics. As stated previously, I do not possess the hard facts. I am seriously lacking in this quarter. That is one reason I ask questions.
You really do have a high opinion of yourself don't you? Well I am 5' 9" tall, but I wouldn't go higher than that!Do you know what extrapolation is? That's what I was doing there dude. Yes and I am entitled to seek such information to do my own extrapolation and also to subject the extrapolation of others to satisfactory testing in order to establish credibility. You should not take such matters personally. You should expect it. With this kind of data and the claims being made, people have a right to be very careful before accepting the information of unknown persons on a whim.
I am very educated in the wordly sense as well as in the scholarly sense I don't need slights and jabs every time I get on here from you people. If you think I'm wrong that's your opinion. I've got messages from others who appreciate a straight forward no bullshnit approach. Perhaps try and leave emotion or excitement out of things. I for one , am not making any personal attack upon you or your credibility. As you will appreciate, the claims you are making are extremely serious in nature and are likely, if true, to have huge consequences in the course of time. Until more is known about these matters, it is only natural to safeguard oneself by making efforts to ascertain the veracity of the claims made. It's as simple as that. Common sense and logical.
So what exactly is emotional about what I said? The fact the all of the letters that have come out "except" Hodgie Holgerson talk more about living and praying for the the perpetrators than the victims. To me it shows the true intentions of this semi religious sect very clearly as it demonstrates what's truly important to the 2x2s leadership. It's simply disgusting to me that every letter glosses over the victims and coddles the sick people that have committed these unspeakable crimes. Dean Bruers crimes were never going to be reported as September, October, November, December, January, February, and March proved with not single thing done, said or anything. That is an un arguable fact. History is our greatest teacher of human behavior and the behavior of the 2x2s has been proven. They have a standard practice of silencing the victims and moving the perpetrator to a new area and never ever reporting ANY crimes. They do the proverbial "sweep it all under the rug" but that same rug is the foundation of their entire non organization organization. I hope that wasn't too emotional for all you sensitive types that lack logic, humor or understanding of how the world works. |
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Post by internationalstudies on May 7, 2023 13:06:28 GMT -5
Vinny
Why do you keep repeating this misleading statement?
"Dean Bruers crimes were never going to be reported as September, October, November, December, January, February, and March proved with not single thing done, said or anything."
You are ignorantly or wilfully (I'm not sure which) ignoring the facts that Doyle Smith acted on the advice of professionals in the field of sexual abuse with the wishes and needs of victims having priority determining what and when disclosure has been made. Shame on you for disregard for victims wishes being respected.
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Post by Vinny T. on May 7, 2023 13:24:57 GMT -5
One can't know any details about all those being investigated until they are charged/convicted. So this is quite literally a non sensical and illogical question. NO one can know of any details being investigated: 1) If any have brothers who have rode the loch Ness monster 2) If any have done the crimes while eating pancakes 3) How many are women who dared to wear pants 4) How many are me who wear dresses 5) How many did the crimes in the morning or if the preferred the cover of night. 6) How many chose cheeseburgers over steak for the preferred celebrity meal when they are caught and get moved to a new area of victims for the third time without being charged or reported. 7) How many just really don't like CNN and prefer Fox until Tucker Carlson got fired and now they are upset and going to a new News source that their next door neighbor recommended. ***How many are teachers, have pet snails, have pet rocks, like cat videos, like anime, really don't like Biden, how many braid the armpit hair, what type of car they drive to commit their crimes, etc. So until these people are known and the details are made public NO ONE can know the details of their lives, the details of their crimes or the scope of their victims reported or otherwise. Sorry there Lil Molehill you can't know these things yet sorry. Sorry Vinz, but the manner of your responses and posting in general, explains exactly why people are very sceptical about the information you provide. It hardly makes for productive dialogue in these very serious matters. I like the pet snails bit though! Nice thoughtful touch. Lil Molehill. I am being sarcastic because it is glaringly obvious that you have zero understanding that your questions cannot be answered. It has nothing to do with me, I am poking fun at your expense from your illogical question and has nothing to do with my answer. I will answer your question with no Sarcasm. Please feel free to check for yourself, you will probably learn something. No one can answer any specific details of those being investigated until they are charged/convicted. The reason is we don't know who is being investigated just a growing number of those that are. Why? Due to the fact that those being investigated are not known. The investigations are not spoken about by Law Enforcement because it can compromise an investigation and protects them until they are charged. Most investigations are done without the perpetrators knowing they are being investigated until Law Enforcement has evidence and a reason to question them. Wondering the demographics and specifics is natural but is impossible to know until these investigations are done. They are in the beginning stages of the investigations. So how is stating easily provable things not credible and causes skepticism? Is it because I sometimes use Sarcasm? Is it because I'm not professing? Or perhaps I dont have my main priority as protecting the perverts? Or is it because I am in the side of the victims and want some sort of justice for them so they can perhaps have a chance to heal? It matters not your opinion if you think I'm credible. Please look it up yourself  |
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jane
Junior Member
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Post by jane on May 7, 2023 13:26:47 GMT -5
Wow. This is good. I don't even know why you asked these questions. Literally makes no sense at all. Let me breakdown a couple things. One is glaringly obvious and the other should be obvious but I will explain. The hot line is "specifically" for reporting sexual assault and child sexual assault. So it is not a hard stretch to say that the 250+ being investigated are for sexual assault and child sexual assault. How is that hard to understand? The hot line is not for reporting incorrect building code violations. The other thing that may not be obvious is this: NO one can give you or anyone specifics in the breakdown of the statistics or demographics UNTIL all the perpetrators being investigated are charged. Then it is public knowledge and we can get a breakdown. However until we know WHO they are then the information you are requesting is impossible. If anyone says anything it is a guess at best. How can one get the statistics and demographical breakdown until we know who's being charged after being investigated? How, consult a crystal ball? Perhaps go to a palm reader tarot card reader or maybe a shaman? Saying some are "dead" is like saying some are have read hair, some are bald and some are bad at checkers. How do YOU know some are dead? You can assume but you dont know you are only guessing. Dean Bruers aspect of investigation stems from his laptop mainly. The Dean Bruer laptop is a major piece of evidence connecting alot of people. Since it came out things have gained tremendous traction. Vinnyt: I think you find it difficult that others might know more accurate information than you. Rather than fight us on facts (yes, some of the 250+ are dead. I know that as factual), why not help us problem solve or discuss these issues in a mature professional way. It's not helpful to make fun of those who are of this faith and wanting to know a breakdown of the 250+ perps. We are scared, anxious and want information. And it's okay for us to feel that way. And yes, maybe we are being impatient. You asked "I don't even know why you asked these questions. Literally makes no sense at all." We are asking these questions because we feel we have a right to know. We are in fellowship with these people. If they are all workers, i wont be going to convention. If they are all elders, i wont be attending my Sunday meeting. If they are a mix of all over the world, i will continue to fight for change. We have been spoon fed for so many years, we are now demanding information. And yes, maybe they can not give us those answers right now-we also understand that. But you do not need to make fun of our desire and need to know. That is rude. I wish i could consult a 'crystal ball' and know the damage that will take place and who exactly those 250+ are. I need to make decisions and knowing information would help. Unfortunately, that is not a realistic (or helpful) suggestion at the moment. There are some on this site that have offered helpful suggestions. Someone asked me, will it make a difference if you know those 250 or don't know those 250? That was a helpful critique. It stung for a moment, but it was helpful. 1chinesewhispers has been incredibly supportive and helpful on this site. She knows a lot of information and does her best to reassure and warn us, but is professional and respectful of waiting for due process. Sharon and Verna have been wonderful with their questions, suggestions and support. You keep bringing up Dean's laptop-saying there is information on it. Reality is-no one will ever know. Without a warrant-that laptop will sit on a shelf forever. If you have legit information of that laptop, please share/call the hotline or the police. Im not here to fight anyone. This site has been incredibly helpful for me and i want to continue feeling this is a safe place to have discussions. We want to hear your thoughts, we want the information you know, we want to problem solve with you. But we don't need to be made fun of right now. We feel enough shame, embarrassment and disappointment right now. |
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Post by verna on May 7, 2023 13:34:32 GMT -5
Wow. This is good. I don't even know why you asked these questions. Literally makes no sense at all. Let me breakdown a couple things. One is glaringly obvious and the other should be obvious but I will explain. The hot line is "specifically" for reporting sexual assault and child sexual assault. So it is not a hard stretch to say that the 250+ being investigated are for sexual assault and child sexual assault. How is that hard to understand? The hot line is not for reporting incorrect building code violations. The other thing that may not be obvious is this: NO one can give you or anyone specifics in the breakdown of the statistics or demographics UNTIL all the perpetrators being investigated are charged. Then it is public knowledge and we can get a breakdown. However until we know WHO they are then the information you are requesting is impossible. If anyone says anything it is a guess at best. How can one get the statistics and demographical breakdown until we know who's being charged after being investigated? How, consult a crystal ball? Perhaps go to a palm reader tarot card reader or maybe a shaman? Saying some are "dead" is like saying some are have read hair, some are bald and some are bad at checkers. How do YOU know some are dead? You can assume but you dont know you are only guessing. Dean Bruers aspect of investigation stems from his laptop mainly. The Dean Bruer laptop is a major piece of evidence connecting alot of people. Since it came out things have gained tremendous traction. Vinnyt: I think you find it difficult that others might know more accurate information than you. Rather than fight us on facts (yes, some of the 250+ are dead. I know that as factual), why not help us problem solve or discuss these issues in a mature professional way. It's not helpful to make fun of those who are of this faith and wanting to know a breakdown of the 250+ perps. We are scared, anxious and want information. And it's okay for us to feel that way. And yes, maybe we are being impatient. You asked "I don't even know why you asked these questions. Literally makes no sense at all." We are asking these questions because we feel we have a right to know. We are in fellowship with these people. If they are all workers, i wont be going to convention. If they are all elders, i wont be attending my Sunday meeting. If they are a mix of all over the world, i will continue to fight for change. We have been spoon fed for so many years, we are now demanding information. And yes, maybe they can not give us those answers right now-we also understand that. But you do not need to make fun of our desire and need to know. That is rude. I wish i could consult a 'crystal ball' and know the damage that will take place and who exactly those 250+ are. I need to make decisions and knowing information would help. Unfortunately, that is not a realistic (or helpful) suggestion at the moment. There are some on this site that have offered helpful suggestions. Someone asked me, will it make a difference if you know those 250 or don't know those 250? That was a helpful critique. It stung for a moment, but it was helpful. 1chinesewhispers has been incredibly supportive and helpful on this site. She knows a lot of information and does her best to reassure and warn us, but is professional and respectful of waiting for due process. Sharon and Verna have been wonderful with their questions, suggestions and support. You keep bringing up Dean's laptop-saying there is information on it. Reality is-no one will ever know. Without a warrant-that laptop will sit on a shelf forever. If you have legit information of that laptop, please share/call the hotline or the police. Im not here to fight anyone. This site has been incredibly helpful for me and i want to continue feeling this is a safe place to have discussions. We want to hear your thoughts, we want the information you know, we want to problem solve with you. But we don't need to be made fun of right now. We feel enough shame, embarrassment and disappointment right now. Thanks so much for that thoughtful response. I am an ex, and sometimes a “bitter” ex but, like many exes, many people I love are in. I can’t even imagine the state of unrest this all must leave you in. Hugs. Thinking of you. |
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Post by Vinny T. on May 7, 2023 13:44:23 GMT -5
Vinny Why do you keep repeating this misleading statement? "Dean Bruers crimes were never going to be reported as September, October, November, December, January, February, and March proved with not single thing done, said or anything."
You are ignorantly or wilfully (I'm not sure which) ignoring the facts that Doyle Smith acted on the advice of professionals in the field of sexual abuse with the wishes and needs of victims having priority determining what and when disclosure has been made. Shame on you for disregard for victims wishes being respected. PoPs it is easy to understand to all except you. Doyly Smith did nothing until he was compelled despite what you want to say. It's not misleading at all it is an unequivocal fact. He did absolutely nothing until he met with the private investigator. Do you have any proof that he did something prior to the being compelled by the private investigator? So I will take a page out of your book, prove he did something before being compelled by the private investigator. I'm sure many people would like to see this proof you have. Please share for all what he did before being compelled. Sorry there old chap. Despite your obvious willful ignorance of what actually happened. Words and intentions are not actions. His words of what he was going to do contradict what he actually did and what actually happened. Doyle Smith did nothing until he had no choice because he was compelled by the private investigator. Sorry bub but history and actions speak more than hollow words after the fact. What YOU are saying is misleading because it contradicts what actually happened. Sorry PoPs you are wrong. Doesn't matter if you like it or not. The truth is Doyly Smith did nothing until he was spoken to by the private investigator. Anything you say about his I tentions is incorrect and irrelevant. It is an easily provable fact to show that Doyly Smith did nothing prior to the meeting. If you have other evidence then prove it. Otherwise please leave me alone PoPs. You are not supposed to be on these boards according to your Overseer. Good to see you respect your Overseers wishes. Shows alot about your drama addiction. Have a good day I hope you get the help you need. |
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Post by mountain on May 7, 2023 13:54:55 GMT -5
Sorry Vinz, but the manner of your responses and posting in general, explains exactly why people are very sceptical about the information you provide. It hardly makes for productive dialogue in these very serious matters. I like the pet snails bit though! Nice thoughtful touch. Lil Molehill. I am being sarcastic because it is glaringly obvious that you have zero understanding that your questions cannot be answered. It has nothing to do with me, I am poking fun at your expense from your illogical question and has nothing to do with my answer. I will answer your question with no Sarcasm. Please feel free to check for yourself, you will probably learn something. No one can answer any specific details of those being investigated until they are charged/convicted. The reason is we don't know who is being investigated just a growing number of those that are. Why? Due to the fact that those being investigated are not known. The investigations are not spoken about by Law Enforcement because it can compromise an investigation and protects them until they are charged. Most investigations are done without the perpetrators knowing they are being investigated until Law Enforcement has evidence and a reason to question them. Wondering the demographics and specifics is natural but is impossible to know until these investigations are done. They are in the beginning stages of the investigations. So how is stating easily provable things not credible and causes skepticism? Is it because I sometimes use Sarcasm? Is it because I'm not professing? Or perhaps I dont have my main priority as protecting the perverts? Or is it because I am in the side of the victims and want some sort of justice for them so they can perhaps have a chance to heal? It matters not your opinion if you think I'm credible. Please look it up yourself Some day you may understand the need to take such matters in a calm and reasonable way when entering in to discussions. |
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Post by mountain on May 7, 2023 14:03:18 GMT -5
So what exactly is emotional about what I said?The fact the all of the letters that have come out "except" Hodgie Holgerson talk more about living and praying for the the perpetrators than the victims. To me it shows the true intentions of this semi religious sect very clearly as it demonstrates what's truly important to the 2x2s leadership. It's simply disgusting to me that every letter glosses over the victims and coddles the sick people that have committed these unspeakable crimes. Dean Bruers crimes were never going to be reported as September, October, November, December, January, February, and March proved with not single thing done, said or anything. That is an un arguable fact. History is our greatest teacher of human behavior and the behavior of the 2x2s has been proven. They have a standard practice of silencing the victims and moving the perpetrator to a new area and never ever reporting ANY crimes. They do the proverbial "sweep it all under the rug" but that same rug is the foundation of their entire non organization organization. I hope that wasn't too emotional for all you sensitive types that lack logic, humor or understanding of how the world works. To answer your opening question. Since Day 1 of the Bruer disclosures you have been presenting information like a hen on a hot girdle (Scottish form), full of excitement, speculation, fantastic claims, all based upon details that you admit we don't know yet and will take time to learn and evaluate. You are extremely prone to going off like a premature firework. Don't take my word for it, but irrespective of the foundation of your claims, you are causing other posters to take your words with a large pinch of salt. It's a pity because a more calm and controlled approach may reward you with greater credibility. |
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jane
Junior Member
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Post by jane on May 7, 2023 14:17:08 GMT -5
Vinny Why do you keep repeating this misleading statement? "Dean Bruers crimes were never going to be reported as September, October, November, December, January, February, and March proved with not single thing done, said or anything."
You are ignorantly or wilfully (I'm not sure which) ignoring the facts that Doyle Smith acted on the advice of professionals in the field of sexual abuse with the wishes and needs of victims having priority determining what and when disclosure has been made. Shame on you for disregard for victims wishes being respected. PoPs it is easy to understand to all except you. Doyly Smith did nothing until he was compelled despite what you want to say. It's not misleading at all it is an unequivocal fact. He did absolutely nothing until he met with the private investigator. Do you have any proof that he did something prior to the being compelled by the private investigator? So I will take a page out of your book, prove he did something before being compelled by the private investigator. I'm sure many people would like to see this proof you have. Please share for all what he did before being compelled. Sorry there old chap. Despite your obvious willful ignorance of what actually happened. Words and intentions are not actions. His words of what he was going to do contradict what he actually did and what actually happened. Doyle Smith did nothing until he had no choice because he was compelled by the private investigator. Sorry bub but history and actions speak more than hollow words after the fact. What YOU are saying is misleading because it contradicts what actually happened. Sorry PoPs you are wrong. Doesn't matter if you like it or not. The truth is Doyly Smith did nothing until he was spoken to by the private investigator. Anything you say about his I tentions is incorrect and irrelevant. It is an easily provable fact to show that Doyly Smith did nothing prior to the meeting. If you have other evidence then prove it. Otherwise please leave me alone PoPs. You are not supposed to be on these boards according to your Overseer. Good to see you respect your Overseers wishes. Shows alot about your drama addiction. Have a good day I hope you get the help you need. I am not here to defend Doyle. I think he made a lot of mistakes. You are clearly very upset at Doyle and his actions, and that is understandable. We all lost trust in him. Let's look at the facts. -Doyle had written the letter prior to meeting the PI -Doyle had met with the OR staff prior to meeting with the PI -Doyle had started the release of the letter prior to meeting with the PI -Doyle had consulted a professional trauma counsellor prior to meeting with the PI -Doyle had listened and respected the wishes of the survivors prior to meeting with the PI Yes-she had contacted him prior to the Dean situation in regards to CSA, but it is my understanding that she did not know about 'Dean' at that point. Do i think it should have been handled differently?-100% yes. Do i think it was victim led? not at all. Do i think he waited WAY to long before doing anything?-yes. and i'm happy to discuss those things. With these facts, you can not say that Doyle did nothing before meeting with the PI. Was it enough?-nope, we all agree on that. If I am wrong on any of these things, please feel free to correct me and have a discussion in an appropriate way. |
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Post by Vinny T. on May 7, 2023 14:17:43 GMT -5
Lil Molehill. I am being sarcastic because it is glaringly obvious that you have zero understanding that your questions cannot be answered. It has nothing to do with me, I am poking fun at your expense from your illogical question and has nothing to do with my answer. I will answer your question with no Sarcasm. Please feel free to check for yourself, you will probably learn something. No one can answer any specific details of those being investigated until they are charged/convicted. The reason is we don't know who is being investigated just a growing number of those that are. Why? Due to the fact that those being investigated are not known. The investigations are not spoken about by Law Enforcement because it can compromise an investigation and protects them until they are charged. Most investigations are done without the perpetrators knowing they are being investigated until Law Enforcement has evidence and a reason to question them. Wondering the demographics and specifics is natural but is impossible to know until these investigations are done. They are in the beginning stages of the investigations. So how is stating easily provable things not credible and causes skepticism? Is it because I sometimes use Sarcasm? Is it because I'm not professing? Or perhaps I dont have my main priority as protecting the perverts? Or is it because I am in the side of the victims and want some sort of justice for them so they can perhaps have a chance to heal? It matters not your opinion if you think I'm credible. Please look it up yourself Some day you may understand the need to take such matters in a calm and reasonable way when entering in to discussions. How am I not calm? Please explain. |
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Post by Vinny T. on May 7, 2023 14:26:34 GMT -5
So what exactly is emotional about what I said?The fact the all of the letters that have come out "except" Hodgie Holgerson talk more about living and praying for the the perpetrators than the victims. To me it shows the true intentions of this semi religious sect very clearly as it demonstrates what's truly important to the 2x2s leadership. It's simply disgusting to me that every letter glosses over the victims and coddles the sick people that have committed these unspeakable crimes. Dean Bruers crimes were never going to be reported as September, October, November, December, January, February, and March proved with not single thing done, said or anything. That is an un arguable fact. History is our greatest teacher of human behavior and the behavior of the 2x2s has been proven. They have a standard practice of silencing the victims and moving the perpetrator to a new area and never ever reporting ANY crimes. They do the proverbial "sweep it all under the rug" but that same rug is the foundation of their entire non organization organization. I hope that wasn't too emotional for all you sensitive types that lack logic, humor or understanding of how the world works. To answer your opening question. Since Day 1 of the Bruer disclosures you have been presenting information like a hen on a hot girdle (Scottish form), full of excitement, speculation, fantastic claims, all based upon details that you admit we don't know yet and will take time to learn and evaluate. You are extremely prone to going off like a premature firework. Don't take my word for it, but irrespective of the foundation of your claims, you are causing other posters to take your words with a large pinch of salt. It's a pity because a more calm and controlled approach may reward you with greater credibility. Regardless of how I say things for the most part I am treated in a disrespectful manner and I did not post like this from the beginning. There are no fantastic claims there are facts weather you accept them or not. There are many people who find my information very helpful, I post for them not the ones like yourself who refuse to accept reality and history. I will speak decently to those that are deserving of it. I have nk purpose in here other than to give info and understanding of how things work. It matters not if you agree with them, it is simply a matter of fact and procedures. Please feel free to not be snarky and I won t be snarky back to you. that way we can have productive discourse. |
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Post by mountain on May 7, 2023 14:36:39 GMT -5
Some day you may understand the need to take such matters in a calm and reasonable way when entering in to discussions. How am I not calm? Please explain. You are not presenting your posts in a calm or reasonable manner. Any time anyone questions you, you take it as an attack on your integrity. You give people the impression that no matter what you post, they should just accept it as true. We are being subjected to some very serious disclosures about a sect that was very dear to most posters heart. It takes time to sink in. In these times the truth may seen incredible to many. Having an anti or venomous approach will only unsettle people further. |
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Post by Vinny T. on May 7, 2023 17:05:50 GMT -5
How am I not calm? Please explain. You are not presenting your posts in a calm or reasonable manner. Any time anyone questions you, you take it as an attack on your integrity. You give people the impression that no matter what you post, they should just accept it as true. We are being subjected to some very serious disclosures about a sect that was very dear to most posters heart. It takes time to sink in. In these times the truth may seen incredible to many. Having an anti or venomous approach will only unsettle people further. I spit venom when I am bit by a snake. If one doesn't attack me then I have not responded like this. If you come at me use insulting language, insinuate I am lying or making things up out of thin air or obscuring facts then I will respond in a similar manner. It is you people who have attacked me first many times relentlessly for things that your religious sect has done. Don't shoot the messenger. I was part of a very similar religion myself and when things came up and they are easily proven then I never had a respond like this. I was shocked and appalled. It is your religious sects policy to protect pedophiles and rapists then silence, shame and shun the victims not mine. If you're going to be angry at someone then get angry at your churches leadership who has made this an unwaiverable guideline for all it's leaders in all countries across the world. God protects the innocent not the violators. Your church protects the violators encouraging their behavior through absolutely zero accountability. The only people accountable of the violations are the victims who are accountable for their violators actions against them. Nothing to do with me. No wild accusations, just the hard and bitter truths about this religious entity. There is little mention of the victims yet there are many prayers for the perpetrators. Says alot about the focus and what's really important to the leadership. To anyone not in 8t 8s 8s backwards and wrong on every level in every aspect. How can a religion claim to be good with standard procedures like this? How can one stay in a religion when this is the standard way of dealing with things? I was iny religion for most my life and left immediately when I learned what the truth was. Everyone is not like me and I respect and understand that. However with the sheer amount that's happened in a month and the amount that comes out daily it's shows massive amounts of deceit and willfully wrong behavior by the leadership. |
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Post by mountain on May 7, 2023 17:14:15 GMT -5
You are not presenting your posts in a calm or reasonable manner. Any time anyone questions you, you take it as an attack on your integrity. You give people the impression that no matter what you post, they should just accept it as true. We are being subjected to some very serious disclosures about a sect that was very dear to most posters heart. It takes time to sink in. In these times the truth may seen incredible to many. Having an anti or venomous approach will only unsettle people further. I spit venom when I am bit by a snake. If one doesn't attack me then I have not responded like this. If you come at me use insulting language, insinuate I am lying or making things up out of thin air or obscuring facts then I will respond in a similar manner. It is you people who have attacked me first many times relentlessly for things that your religious sect has done. Don't shoot the messenger. I was part of a very similar religion myself and when things came up and they are easily proven then I never had a respond like this. I was shocked and appalled. It is your religious sects policy to protect pedophiles and rapists then silence, shame and shun the victims not mine. If you're going to be angry at someone then get angry at your churches leadership who has made this an unwaiverable guideline for all it's leaders in all countries across the world. God protects the innocent not the violators. Your church protects the violators encouraging their behavior through absolutely zero accountability. The only people accountable of the violations are the victims who are accountable for their violators actions against them. Nothing to do with me. No wild accusations, just the hard and bitter truths about this religious entity. There is little mention of the victims yet there are many prayers for the perpetrators. Says alot about the focus and what's really important to the leadership. To anyone not in 8t 8s 8s backwards and wrong on every level in every aspect. How can a religion claim to be good with standard procedures like this? How can one stay in a religion when this is the standard way of dealing with things? I was iny religion for most my life and left immediately when I learned what the truth was. Everyone is not like me and I respect and understand that. However with the sheer amount that's happened in a month and the amount that comes out daily it's shows massive amounts of deceit and willfully wrong behavior by the leadership. I do concede that it is good to let of steam occasionally. Hopefully you will feel better and will be able to participate with more controlled and valuable contributions in the future. With these matters we should all be doing our best to pull in the same direction, irrespective of our differences. I am heartened to say that I see positive developments amongst most fellow posters in this regard. |
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Post by Vinny T. on May 7, 2023 18:11:52 GMT -5
Wow. This is good. I don't even know why you asked these questions. Literally makes no sense at all. Let me breakdown a couple things. One is glaringly obvious and the other should be obvious but I will explain. The hot line is "specifically" for reporting sexual assault and child sexual assault. So it is not a hard stretch to say that the 250+ being investigated are for sexual assault and child sexual assault. How is that hard to understand? The hot line is not for reporting incorrect building code violations. The other thing that may not be obvious is this: NO one can give you or anyone specifics in the breakdown of the statistics or demographics UNTIL all the perpetrators being investigated are charged. Then it is public knowledge and we can get a breakdown. However until we know WHO they are then the information you are requesting is impossible. If anyone says anything it is a guess at best. How can one get the statistics and demographical breakdown until we know who's being charged after being investigated? How, consult a crystal ball? Perhaps go to a palm reader tarot card reader or maybe a shaman? Saying some are "dead" is like saying some are have read hair, some are bald and some are bad at checkers. How do YOU know some are dead? You can assume but you dont know you are only guessing. Dean Bruers aspect of investigation stems from his laptop mainly. The Dean Bruer laptop is a major piece of evidence connecting alot of people. Since it came out things have gained tremendous traction. Vinnyt: I think you find it difficult that others might know more accurate information than you. Rather than fight us on facts (yes, some of the 250+ are dead. I know that as factual), why not help us problem solve or discuss these issues in a mature professional way. It's not helpful to make fun of those who are of this faith and wanting to know a breakdown of the 250+ perps. We are scared, anxious and want information. And it's okay for us to feel that way. And yes, maybe we are being impatient. You asked "I don't even know why you asked these questions. Literally makes no sense at all." We are asking these questions because we feel we have a right to know. We are in fellowship with these people. If they are all workers, i wont be going to convention. If they are all elders, i wont be attending my Sunday meeting. If they are a mix of all over the world, i will continue to fight for change. We have been spoon fed for so many years, we are now demanding information. And yes, maybe they can not give us those answers right now-we also understand that. But you do not need to make fun of our desire and need to know. That is rude. I wish i could consult a 'crystal ball' and know the damage that will take place and who exactly those 250+ are. I need to make decisions and knowing information would help. Unfortunately, that is not a realistic (or helpful) suggestion at the moment. There are some on this site that have offered helpful suggestions. Someone asked me, will it make a difference if you know those 250 or don't know those 250? That was a helpful critique. It stung for a moment, but it was helpful. 1chinesewhispers has been incredibly supportive and helpful on this site. She knows a lot of information and does her best to reassure and warn us, but is professional and respectful of waiting for due process. Sharon and Verna have been wonderful with their questions, suggestions and support. You keep bringing up Dean's laptop-saying there is information on it. Reality is-no one will ever know. Without a warrant-that laptop will sit on a shelf forever. If you have legit information of that laptop, please share/call the hotline or the police. Im not here to fight anyone. This site has been incredibly helpful for me and i want to continue feeling this is a safe place to have discussions. We want to hear your thoughts, we want the information you know, we want to problem solve with you. But we don't need to be made fun of right now. We feel enough shame, embarrassment and disappointment right now. Thank you for your reply. I am sorry for making you feel ashamed and cause of further embarrassment. I truly apologize. I defend myself on here and that is based on how I am treated. The truth of the matter is yes it is very hard to accept what you've been spoon fed. In your reply to me in regards to the 2x2s and how you along with everyone is spoon fed things and it shows you have alot of understanding that there is alot of fundamental things wrong. I hope what I say will help you. In one month 250+ people being investigated yet a handful before. In the entire church history there's never been leadership that has turned in rapist and pedofiles. The church standards have different levels of acceptance and tolerance such as certain places being ok with pants for when on occasion, lighter makeup, wine, etc etc. Yet there's one policy that is the same in every country in every culture in every language. That policy is how to deal with rapists and pedophiles so they are not charged and the victims are silenced. Then they have a culture not caring about the victims yet praying for the perpetrators? Doesn't that seem wrong? Yet despite everything in all cultures Overseers do not report this, what does that say about all of them personally? It says they are the type of man who can let these happen to innocent victims many of them children and do nothing about it. Then there is a standard of moving the perpetrators to new areas and never saying a word about these vile things they have done to the people in the church. It's just never mentioned. Why? The main policies in the 2x2s are hiding the money and moving it around. Hiding the rapists and pedophiles is a standard, protecting them is a standard procedure and so is not reporting them and silencing the victims as well as shaming shunning the victims. What does is say about the organization when those are absolutely non changing things? Yet divorce, attire, make up etc etc are tolerated varyingly in different areas? The most non changing standards is to hide the money, hide rapists and pedophiles and never to report such things? That sounds little like an organization born from God and Jesus and more like an organization born from the great deceiver. There are many many good people in the 2x2s yet as evidence suggests the higher up you go the more comfortable and accepting of rapists and pedophiles you have to be. Which accepting this behavior means you are no longer a good person as this goes against all good things represented and sides with characteristics that if demonstrated will immediately deem that person in fact not good. Look at it this way: If a you were being told about someone who a friend of yours thinks you'd get along and you say "yeah tell me about them". Your friend says sure they are a really great person they like the same things you do, same sense of humor they are great. I really think you'll like em they accept, rape, hide pedophiles they are just a really good person. They things are never considered good. They are hidden among other things in order to appear acceptable for the kingdom. As I said there are many good people yet the leadership not so much. As is proven by their actions. I hope I may have brought up some good points. Have a blessed day, God bless you in your time of need. |
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Post by butterfingers on May 7, 2023 21:24:04 GMT -5
Vinnyt: I think you find it difficult that others might know more accurate information than you. Rather than fight us on facts (yes, some of the 250+ are dead. I know that as factual), why not help us problem solve or discuss these issues in a mature professional way. It's not helpful to make fun of those who are of this faith and wanting to know a breakdown of the 250+ perps. We are scared, anxious and want information. And it's okay for us to feel that way. And yes, maybe we are being impatient. You asked "I don't even know why you asked these questions. Literally makes no sense at all." We are asking these questions because we feel we have a right to know. We are in fellowship with these people. If they are all workers, i wont be going to convention. If they are all elders, i wont be attending my Sunday meeting. If they are a mix of all over the world, i will continue to fight for change. We have been spoon fed for so many years, we are now demanding information. And yes, maybe they can not give us those answers right now-we also understand that. But you do not need to make fun of our desire and need to know. That is rude. I wish i could consult a 'crystal ball' and know the damage that will take place and who exactly those 250+ are. I need to make decisions and knowing information would help. Unfortunately, that is not a realistic (or helpful) suggestion at the moment. There are some on this site that have offered helpful suggestions. Someone asked me, will it make a difference if you know those 250 or don't know those 250? That was a helpful critique. It stung for a moment, but it was helpful. 1chinesewhispers has been incredibly supportive and helpful on this site. She knows a lot of information and does her best to reassure and warn us, but is professional and respectful of waiting for due process. Sharon and Verna have been wonderful with their questions, suggestions and support. You keep bringing up Dean's laptop-saying there is information on it. Reality is-no one will ever know. Without a warrant-that laptop will sit on a shelf forever. If you have legit information of that laptop, please share/call the hotline or the police. Im not here to fight anyone. This site has been incredibly helpful for me and i want to continue feeling this is a safe place to have discussions. We want to hear your thoughts, we want the information you know, we want to problem solve with you. But we don't need to be made fun of right now. We feel enough shame, embarrassment and disappointment right now. Thank you for your reply. I am sorry for making you feel ashamed and cause of further embarrassment. I truly apologize. I defend myself on here and that is based on how I am treated. The truth of the matter is yes it is very hard to accept what you've been spoon fed. In your reply to me in regards to the 2x2s and how you along with everyone is spoon fed things and it shows you have alot of understanding that there is alot of fundamental things wrong. I hope what I say will help you. In one month 250+ people being investigated yet a handful before. In the entire church history there's never been leadership that has turned in rapist and pedofiles. The church standards have different levels of acceptance and tolerance such as certain places being ok with pants for when on occasion, lighter makeup, wine, etc etc. Yet there's one policy that is the same in every country in every culture in every language. That policy is how to deal with rapists and pedophiles so they are not charged and the victims are silenced. Then they have a culture not caring about the victims yet praying for the perpetrators? Doesn't that seem wrong? Yet despite everything in all cultures Overseers do not report this, what does that say about all of them personally? It says they are the type of man who can let these happen to innocent victims many of them children and do nothing about it. Then there is a standard of moving the perpetrators to new areas and never saying a word about these vile things they have done to the people in the church. It's just never mentioned. Why? The main policies in the 2x2s are hiding the money and moving it around. Hiding the rapists and pedophiles is a standard, protecting them is a standard procedure and so is not reporting them and silencing the victims as well as shaming shunning the victims. What does is say about the organization when those are absolutely non changing things? Yet divorce, attire, make up etc etc are tolerated varyingly in different areas? The most non changing standards is to hide the money, hide rapists and pedophiles and never to report such things? That sounds little like an organization born from God and Jesus and more like an organization born from the great deceiver. There are many many good people in the 2x2s yet as evidence suggests the higher up you go the more comfortable and accepting of rapists and pedophiles you have to be. Which accepting this behavior means you are no longer a good person as this goes against all good things represented and sides with characteristics that if demonstrated will immediately deem that person in fact not good. Look at it this way: If a you were being told about someone who a friend of yours thinks you'd get along and you say "yeah tell me about them". Your friend says sure they are a really great person they like the same things you do, same sense of humor they are great. I really think you'll like em they accept, rape, hide pedophiles they are just a really good person. They things are never considered good. They are hidden among other things in order to appear acceptable for the kingdom. As I said there are many good people yet the leadership not so much. As is proven by their actions. I hope I may have brought up some good points. Have a blessed day, God bless you in your time of need. Again, you show your ignorance. I actually do think you mean well, but you just don't have the insight to be productive. You think you know, because you are so "educated", but you really have no idea. |
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Post by Vinny T. on May 8, 2023 14:15:54 GMT -5
Thank you for your reply. I am sorry for making you feel ashamed and cause of further embarrassment. I truly apologize. I defend myself on here and that is based on how I am treated. The truth of the matter is yes it is very hard to accept what you've been spoon fed. In your reply to me in regards to the 2x2s and how you along with everyone is spoon fed things and it shows you have alot of understanding that there is alot of fundamental things wrong. I hope what I say will help you. In one month 250+ people being investigated yet a handful before. In the entire church history there's never been leadership that has turned in rapist and pedofiles. The church standards have different levels of acceptance and tolerance such as certain places being ok with pants for when on occasion, lighter makeup, wine, etc etc. Yet there's one policy that is the same in every country in every culture in every language. That policy is how to deal with rapists and pedophiles so they are not charged and the victims are silenced. Then they have a culture not caring about the victims yet praying for the perpetrators? Doesn't that seem wrong? Yet despite everything in all cultures Overseers do not report this, what does that say about all of them personally? It says they are the type of man who can let these happen to innocent victims many of them children and do nothing about it. Then there is a standard of moving the perpetrators to new areas and never saying a word about these vile things they have done to the people in the church. It's just never mentioned. Why? The main policies in the 2x2s are hiding the money and moving it around. Hiding the rapists and pedophiles is a standard, protecting them is a standard procedure and so is not reporting them and silencing the victims as well as shaming shunning the victims. What does is say about the organization when those are absolutely non changing things? Yet divorce, attire, make up etc etc are tolerated varyingly in different areas? The most non changing standards is to hide the money, hide rapists and pedophiles and never to report such things? That sounds little like an organization born from God and Jesus and more like an organization born from the great deceiver. There are many many good people in the 2x2s yet as evidence suggests the higher up you go the more comfortable and accepting of rapists and pedophiles you have to be. Which accepting this behavior means you are no longer a good person as this goes against all good things represented and sides with characteristics that if demonstrated will immediately deem that person in fact not good. Look at it this way: If a you were being told about someone who a friend of yours thinks you'd get along and you say "yeah tell me about them". Your friend says sure they are a really great person they like the same things you do, same sense of humor they are great. I really think you'll like em they accept, rape, hide pedophiles they are just a really good person. They things are never considered good. They are hidden among other things in order to appear acceptable for the kingdom. As I said there are many good people yet the leadership not so much. As is proven by their actions. I hope I may have brought up some good points. Have a blessed day, God bless you in your time of need. Again, you show your ignorance. I actually do think you mean well, but you just don't have the insight to be productive. You think you know, because you are so "educated", but you really have no idea. What did I say not true or incorrect this time? |
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Post by themaninthemirror on Jun 15, 2023 7:03:39 GMT -5
Apr 5 Dear Friends in Colorado, Utah and Eastern Nevada I have been thinking and praying for our friends and workers in Colorado, Utah and Nevada. I hope you are keeping your faith in the Lord. I have been comforted knowing that the Lord sees and knows all. Jim Chafee and I are glad to be having meetings in the North Utah field. Domenic is on Special meetings in MO/AR. We are glad for some new ones that want to come and learn more about the bible and our friends that keep wanting to learn more about Jesus. It is still our desire to follow Jesus and to try to get others to do the same. We are glad we can still try to follow his example in the ministry. Thanks for helping us to make that possible. I think several of you are aware of some things that happened in Oregon/Idaho last year. We have been made aware recently that Dean Bruer, who was in the ministry in Oregon and South Idaho until he died last year, was living a very immoral, dishonest, double life. We are very sorry about that and feel especially for his victims! The friends in the areas where he worked have been notified. Any others who have been a victim of abuse or inappropriate behavior have been encouraged to reach out for support & to seek professional help if needed. I don't think he ever worked in Colorado/Utah or visited here but of course with travel and friends moving around some of you would know of him or heard him speak in a meeting. We are sorry for the trust that has been betrayed. A few people have asked what we can do to help prevent this from happening in the future. The workers in CO/UT have been doing some abuse awareness training for several years. All the staff are up to date on continuing education regarding recognizing & helping to prevent child sexual abuse. Workers are encouraged to report any CSA directly to law enforcement for investigation. (Friends can do that too) Workers have been encouraged to speak up if they witness or experience inappropriate behavior towards them or others, no matter who it is (Friends can do that too). I think we can help each other be accountable but also trust each other. It was a sad day in the New Testament when Judas, who was among the 12 apostles, betrayed Jesus. This act did not make all of them bad. We just read recently in our studies that they all forsook him and fled. Yet those same 11 arose and turned again to Jesus and were kept by him to fulfill his will. I do like what someone pointed out that Peter knew right away when Ananias and Sapphirah were dishonest. Please pray that the Lord will give us more of the Spirit that would help us to be more aware when things are right and when they are wrong. Your Brother Titus Turns out old Jim was/is a similar character to Dean... |
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Post by snow on Jun 15, 2023 13:18:19 GMT -5
Apr 5 Dear Friends in Colorado, Utah and Eastern Nevada I have been thinking and praying for our friends and workers in Colorado, Utah and Nevada. I hope you are keeping your faith in the Lord. I have been comforted knowing that the Lord sees and knows all. Jim Chafee and I are glad to be having meetings in the North Utah field. Domenic is on Special meetings in MO/AR. We are glad for some new ones that want to come and learn more about the bible and our friends that keep wanting to learn more about Jesus. It is still our desire to follow Jesus and to try to get others to do the same. We are glad we can still try to follow his example in the ministry. Thanks for helping us to make that possible. I think several of you are aware of some things that happened in Oregon/Idaho last year. We have been made aware recently that Dean Bruer, who was in the ministry in Oregon and South Idaho until he died last year, was living a very immoral, dishonest, double life. We are very sorry about that and feel especially for his victims! The friends in the areas where he worked have been notified. Any others who have been a victim of abuse or inappropriate behavior have been encouraged to reach out for support & to seek professional help if needed. I don't think he ever worked in Colorado/Utah or visited here but of course with travel and friends moving around some of you would know of him or heard him speak in a meeting. We are sorry for the trust that has been betrayed. A few people have asked what we can do to help prevent this from happening in the future. The workers in CO/UT have been doing some abuse awareness training for several years. All the staff are up to date on continuing education regarding recognizing & helping to prevent child sexual abuse. Workers are encouraged to report any CSA directly to law enforcement for investigation. (Friends can do that too) Workers have been encouraged to speak up if they witness or experience inappropriate behavior towards them or others, no matter who it is (Friends can do that too). I think we can help each other be accountable but also trust each other. It was a sad day in the New Testament when Judas, who was among the 12 apostles, betrayed Jesus. This act did not make all of them bad. We just read recently in our studies that they all forsook him and fled. Yet those same 11 arose and turned again to Jesus and were kept by him to fulfill his will. I do like what someone pointed out that Peter knew right away when Ananias and Sapphirah were dishonest. Please pray that the Lord will give us more of the Spirit that would help us to be more aware when things are right and when they are wrong. Your Brother Titus Turns out old Jim was/is a similar character to Dean... It's becoming easier and easier to see why the overseers kept quiet and moved workers around. They had their own things that needed to be covered up. And, if they didn't personally have things to keep quiet, it seems that keeping workers in the work was more important to them than stopping the piling up of more victims. |
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Post by themaninthemirror on Jun 15, 2023 15:27:45 GMT -5
Turns out old Jim was/is a similar character to Dean... It's becoming easier and easier to see why the overseers kept quiet and moved workers around. They had their own things that needed to be covered up. And, if they didn't personally have things to keep quiet, it seems that keeping workers in the work was more important to them than stopping the piling up of more victims. Exactly right, I suspect that is why Kingsley Stone has been left to do his thing - because the overseers there are at it.... |
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Post by getreal on Jun 15, 2023 15:55:36 GMT -5
Again, you show your ignorance. I actually do think you mean well, but you just don't have the insight to be productive. You think you know, because you are so "educated", but you really have no idea. What did I say not true or incorrect this time? I do not know who Vinney is but he makes some great points, particularly the absolute solidarity and unity world wide in regards to how sa and csa are handled, in stark contrast to dress, or d and r, or varieties of other frankly petty rules. Its stunning. |
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Post by fixit on Jun 15, 2023 16:05:01 GMT -5
An interesting comment from Jim Chafee's companion above...
I do like what someone pointed out that Peter knew right away when Ananias and Sapphirah were dishonest. Please pray that the Lord will give us more of the Spirit that would help us to be more aware when things are right and when they are wrong.
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Dean Bruer
Jun 15, 2023 18:24:09 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by 1chinesewhispers on Jun 15, 2023 18:24:09 GMT -5
It's becoming easier and easier to see why the overseers kept quiet and moved workers around. They had their own things that needed to be covered up. And, if they didn't personally have things to keep quiet, it seems that keeping workers in the work was more important to them than stopping the piling up of more victims. Exactly right, I suspect that is why Kingsley Stone has been left to do his thing - because the overseers there are at it.... No worries , we know exactly where they are . We got eyes 👀 on them . Yeppers There are a few whom might have contacted the right people . Spooky ! No we are not stalking them yet ! |
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Post by openingact34 on Jun 15, 2023 18:30:20 GMT -5
An interesting comment from Jim Chafee's companion above... I do like what someone pointed out that Peter knew right away when Ananias and Sapphirah were dishonest. Please pray that the Lord will give us more of the Spirit that would help us to be more aware when things are right and when they are wrong.Even more interesting...consider if the New Testament church had its own monster in the position of Overseer: www.patheos.com/blogs/keithgiles/2018/04/did-peter-kill-ananias-and-sapphira/ |
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Post by Annan on Jun 16, 2023 12:07:34 GMT -5
An interesting comment from Jim Chafee's companion above... I do like what someone pointed out that Peter knew right away when Ananias and Sapphirah were dishonest. Please pray that the Lord will give us more of the Spirit that would help us to be more aware when things are right and when they are wrong.Even more interesting...consider if the New Testament church had its own monster in the position of Overseer: www.patheos.com/blogs/keithgiles/2018/04/did-peter-kill-ananias-and-sapphira/Excellent article. I enjoyed that. |
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