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Post by chuck on Sept 29, 2022 18:12:07 GMT -5
That may be true, but it's not the same thing as saying there has been an unbroken line of workers from the time of Christ. That is simply untrue. But the workers trotted out that line in meetings all the time. Many people believed because of this unbroken lineage that they were in the group Jesus started. They have been in a group that Jesus might have approved of, but they were not in a group that started in the days of Jesus. We have not got a workers list that dates back any further than when Irvine started his version of the poverty ministry. He started the friends and workers version. ** According to Jesus teachings and the apostles teachings, and the Vaudois and the RCC teachings! There is no broken line of God's 2x2 true apostles and workers. Jesus said in Matthew 24 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached and be Witness to all nations and then come the end. Jesus said in Matthew 16 to Peter and the apostles, Upon this ROCK I will built my Church and the gates of HELL shall NOT prevail against it. Jesus said in Matthew 28 to the apostles and his followes the Great Commission to all the world to the time of His returns and He will be with them always. I don't read of broken line or gap/ stump theory and restart in Jesus teachings! We read ONLY One TRUE church of Christ from START to FINISH. Name a pair of workers in every century leading up to William Irvine please. nathan did you know you can go and look at the rock and the gates of hell in Matthew 16 still to this very day. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesarea_PhilippiYou have a inability to comprehend the 1st century understanding of Church and you have just redefined it to mean your religious system, shame on you. |
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Post by nathan2 on Sept 29, 2022 18:14:26 GMT -5
Where did I say Jesus preached about the Evil Internet when he was alive on earth in my post? It was the workers in 1990s NOT Jesus. Stop incriminating the 1990 workers, they were just preaching the gospel.... What they preach is NOT 100% true that all Internet is Evil. Well, if the Internet is Evil then why most of the workers in U.S. and around the world are having their own lap tops and Iphone with the Internet? |
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Post by chuck on Sept 29, 2022 18:16:05 GMT -5
Stop incriminating the 1990 workers, they were just preaching the gospel.... What they preach is NOT 100% true that all Internet is Evil. Well, if the Internet is Evil then why most of the workers in U.S. and around the world are having their own lap tops and Iphone with the Internet? Does the penny ever drop?. |
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Post by nathan2 on Sept 29, 2022 18:19:48 GMT -5
** According to Jesus teachings and the apostles teachings, and the Vaudois and the RCC teachings! There is no broken line of God's 2x2 true apostles and workers. Jesus said in Matthew 24 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached and be Witness to all nations and then come the end. Jesus said in Matthew 16 to Peter and the apostles, Upon this ROCK I will built my Church and the gates of HELL shall NOT prevail against it. Jesus said in Matthew 28 to the apostles and his followes the Great Commission to all the world to the time of His returns and He will be with them always. I don't read of broken line or gap/ stump theory and restart in Jesus teachings! We read ONLY One TRUE church of Christ from START to FINISH. Name a pair of workers in every century leading up to William Irvine please. nathan did you know you can go and look at the rock and the gates of hell in Matthew 16 still to this very day. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesarea_PhilippiYou have a inability to comprehend the 1st century understanding of Church and you have just redefined it to mean your religious system, shame on you. ** With your Hebrews culture and mind you will NEVER understand these things to the fullest meaning, Chuck. You must learn to allow the Holy Spirit to guide you and NOT to depend on the Hebrews cultures and mind to have a correct understanding of the scriptures. The Holy Spirit is given to them that Obey Him NOT Possessing the Hebrews mind and understanding. |
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Post by Grant on Sept 29, 2022 18:29:15 GMT -5
Any Christian Church on a Sunday in a Church not a house. Where you sit makes no difference to the message preached. Suggest Nathan you visit a few of them to find out for yourself. I came out of the RCC all boys private school. I also came out of the Pentecostal denomination. Thanks, but no thanks. I don't want to go back to Satan's false RCC and his 50,000 plus Protestant denominations ever again. You're in one. You jumped from one into another . |
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 29, 2022 18:33:48 GMT -5
** One of the overseers in Oregon around 1970s wanted to use radios as another method to reach the millions of people with the gospel. Well, that didn't go too well with most of the workers so, it didn't happen. In my book that overseer had a good vision of finding various way to reach the mmillions to hear and know the true gospel of Jesus Christ. Leo Stancliff, had Bible studies 3 days a week 3 hours each time from 12PM-3PM for the college students and faculties on the University campus lawn from 1978-81. 12 of the students professed but only half has continued on. I went in the work in Oregon, another sister started in work in Calf. 3 had offered for the work but they didn't pan out. Now, we have two children from those students are workers in Calf. Staff. I am so glad that Leo Stancliff and his co-workers tried various methods in reaching and findings lost sheep, lost coins in the world. When I was in the work, two of my older co-workers had Bible studies at the colleges. We tried various ways to share the gospel with people NOT just having the two gospel meetings a week. Internet/TMB is my cup of tea! Is my calling to reach the mmillions with the message of Christ.  "I am so glad that Leo Stancliff and his co-workers tried various methods in reaching and findings lost sheep, lost coins in the world." To me that sums up the fact that Workers play God. You have put the Workers in the position of the God character in these parables and you didn't do it by mistake, you did it because you have never understood it and just like your teacher Leo, are/was ignorant of the Hebrew culture surrounding these 3 parables and have abused them. Leo was a "rote" instructor, but he considered himself uniquely inspired. |
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Post by Grant on Sept 29, 2022 18:35:01 GMT -5
** William Irvine had a good start in the ministry of 2x2 a man of God and winner of souls for Christ in 1897-1900s according to John Long Journal. William Irvine got Jesus 2x2 apostolic ministry from the Faith Mission and many of his 2x2s converts came from the missions when he was a preacher for that group. Many of William Irvine's converts from the Faith Missions in 1897-98, didn't want to join or become members of that group. They didn't want to go back to the churches which they had left or want to join another church denomination. William I. Was unhappy with the Faith Mission organization, he left them in 12/1900. Then he joined force with his 2x2s workers, then he became one of the leaders of the group. John Long and Edward Cooney were the leading workers as much as William Irvine. The Faith Mission group copied Jesus 2x2 apostolic ministry from the group similar to the Vaudois, Waldenses, Albigenses and so on. so why not tell this story then? Why hide? It's Nathan's failed attempt at trying to rewrite history. |
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 29, 2022 18:41:05 GMT -5
Well, if the Internet is Evil then why most of the workers in U.S. and around the world are having their own lap tops and Iphone with the Internet? It's the perfect way to warn people in Canada that their American cousin is on his way for a visit, and you are not to let him into your house. I'm sure you know how that works. |
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Post by help on Sept 29, 2022 18:43:59 GMT -5
Just a biased 2x2 mindset. Thank goodness our 2x2 friends don't think the same way. ** Nothing bias about it; it's the Truth. Depends on the method you use to establish truth. Subjective truth (your opinion) Objective truth ( validated by facts). |
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 29, 2022 18:49:33 GMT -5
** Nothing bias about it; it's the Truth. Depends on the method you use to establish truth. Subjective truth (your opinion) Objective truth ( validated by facts). And alternate truths.  |
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Post by nathan2 on Sept 29, 2022 18:53:17 GMT -5
I came out of the RCC all boys private school. I also came out of the Pentecostal denomination. Thanks, but no thanks. I don't want to go back to Satan's false RCC and his 50,000 plus Protestant denominations ever again. You're in one. You jumped from one into another . ** Yep, I was on the frying pan/RCC and jumped into the hot fire/Pentecostal Protestant then God delivered me from them and lead me to Jesus Christ 2x2 truth and way on earth the 2x2s workers in the 21st century. I prayed to God to show me and guide me to His true servants and people on earth. A few weeks, later God lead me to Leo Stancliff and Larry Taylor were having Bible studies on the University campus lawn in 1978. Talking about God fast answered prayer! What a wonderful and great God and Savior we have! Truly awesome. After 45 years as a 2x2 I can truly say God did NOT and has NOT disappointed me at all. |
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 29, 2022 19:01:00 GMT -5
You're in one. You jumped from one into another . ** Yep, I was on the frying pan/RCC and jumped into the hot fire/Pentecostal Protestant then God delivered me from them and lead me to Jesus Christ 2x2 truth and way on earth the 2x2s workers in the 21st century. I prayed to God to show me and guide me to His true servants and people on earth. A few weeks, later God lead me to Leo Stancliff and Larry Taylor were having Bible studies on the University campus lawn in 1978. Talking about God fast answered prayer! What a wonderful and great God and Savior we have! Truly awesome. After 45 years as a 2x2 I can truly say God did NOT and has NOT disappointed me at all. You have never been more important than now. |
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Post by chuck on Sept 29, 2022 19:04:52 GMT -5
Name a pair of workers in every century leading up to William Irvine please. nathan did you know you can go and look at the rock and the gates of hell in Matthew 16 still to this very day. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesarea_PhilippiYou have a inability to comprehend the 1st century understanding of Church and you have just redefined it to mean your religious system, shame on you. ** With your Hebrews culture and mind you will NEVER understand these things to the fullest meaning, Chuck. You must learn to allow the Holy Spirit to guide you and NOT to depend on the Hebrews cultures and mind to have a correct understanding of the scriptures. The Holy Spirit is given to them that Obey Him NOT Possessing the Hebrews mind and understanding. I said, name a pair of workers in every century leading up to the 1x1 William Irvine please?. And dragging out the holy spirit does not change this concrete fact that you can visit the gates of hell still to this very day. Ignoring this only further intrenches deliberate ignorance... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesarea_PhilippiStop acting like wally. |
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Post by nathan2 on Sept 29, 2022 19:05:50 GMT -5
"I am so glad that Leo Stancliff and his co-workers tried various methods in reaching and findings lost sheep, lost coins in the world." To me that sums up the fact that Workers play God. You have put the Workers in the position of the God character in these parables and you didn't do it by mistake, you did it because you have never understood it and just like your teacher Leo, are/was ignorant of the Hebrew culture surrounding these 3 parables and have abused them. Leo was a "rote" instructor, but he considered himself uniquely inspired. ** Leo Stancliff had a good and clear understanding of Jesus Christ New Testament ministry and the church to worship Godhead in the homes of believers. Leo Stancliff had a great knowledge and understanding of the Bible than many workers I have met in my 45 years as a worker and a 2x2 friend. I had been studying the Bible under Leo's teachings for 10 hours a week for many months. Leo imparted to me the solid foundation of Christ Jesus is the Lord God teaching. He said once a person has an understanding and knowledge of who Christ is then the Bible will open up to them like a beautiful butter fly. |
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Post by nathan2 on Sept 29, 2022 19:10:46 GMT -5
** With your Hebrews culture and mind you will NEVER understand these things to the fullest meaning, Chuck. You must learn to allow the Holy Spirit to guide you and NOT to depend on the Hebrews cultures and mind to have a correct understanding of the scriptures. The Holy Spirit is given to them that Obey Him NOT Possessing the Hebrews mind and understanding. I said, name a pair of workers in every century leading up to the 1x1 William Irvine please?. And dragging out the holy spirit does not change this concrete fact that you can visit the gates of hell still to this very day. Ignoring this only further intrenches deliberate ignorance... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesarea_PhilippiStop acting like wally. I don't know or have the record of 2x2 apostles through the centuries, the records is kept in heaven because each of them will be rewards for their faithfulness in each generation to the times of Jesus returns. I have the lists of 2x2 workers on line... And I have seen the list of the 12 apostles but not the full list of the 70 apostles in Luke 10. |
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Post by chuck on Sept 29, 2022 19:10:59 GMT -5
"I am so glad that Leo Stancliff and his co-workers tried various methods in reaching and findings lost sheep, lost coins in the world." To me that sums up the fact that Workers play God. You have put the Workers in the position of the God character in these parables and you didn't do it by mistake, you did it because you have never understood it and just like your teacher Leo, are/was ignorant of the Hebrew culture surrounding these 3 parables and have abused them. Leo was a "rote" instructor, but he considered himself uniquely inspired. I had to look up what rote meant. In what way was he uniquely inspired?. |
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Post by verna on Sept 29, 2022 19:13:32 GMT -5
So - let me see - that’s maybe a half dozen who told the story. Growing up I never heard it once in all the hours I spent in meeting. Come on Nathan - you know better. Please try to be honest. I am serious about truth and reconciliation. I expect it. No more games. Please! ** I heard about William Irvine when I was in the work from 1986-93. I was told by the workers that he was a charismatic preacher/worker but pride and a womanized behavior got him in big trouble so, he was excommunicated from the ministry. So Irvine was just preacher in an otherwise unbroken line back to the shores of Galilee. Now you know that that is not the truth right? |
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Post by verna on Sept 29, 2022 19:24:21 GMT -5
Just a biased 2x2 mindset. Thank goodness our 2x2 friends don't think the same way. ** Nothing bias about it; it's the Truth. No it isn’t Nathan. It is your truth. |
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Post by verna on Sept 29, 2022 19:31:38 GMT -5
That may be true, but it's not the same thing as saying there has been an unbroken line of workers from the time of Christ. That is simply untrue. But the workers trotted out that line in meetings all the time. Many people believed because of this unbroken lineage that they were in the group Jesus started. They have been in a group that Jesus might have approved of, but they were not in a group that started in the days of Jesus. We have not got a workers list that dates back any further than when Irvine started his version of the poverty ministry. He started the friends and workers version. ** According to Jesus teachings and the apostles teachings, and the Vaudois and the RCC teachings! There is no broken line of God's 2x2 true apostles and workers. Jesus said in Matthew 24 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached and be Witness to all nations and then come the end. Jesus said in Matthew 16 to Peter and the apostles, Upon this ROCK I will built my Church and the gates of HELL shall NOT prevail against it. Jesus said in Matthew 28 to the apostles and his followes the Great Commission to all the world to the time of His returns and He will be with them always. I don't read of broken line or gap/ stump theory and restart in Jesus teachings! We read ONLY One TRUE church of Christ from START to FINISH. That’s the problem Nathan. What you read of did not happen. Try as you may (and you certainly do) you can’t make it so. That’s where the untruth comes in. |
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Post by chuck on Sept 29, 2022 20:05:56 GMT -5
I said, name a pair of workers in every century leading up to the 1x1 William Irvine please?. And dragging out the holy spirit does not change this concrete fact that you can visit the gates of hell still to this very day. Ignoring this only further intrenches deliberate ignorance... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesarea_PhilippiStop acting like wally. I don't know or have the record of 2x2 apostles through the centuries, the records is kept in heaven because each of them will be rewards for their faithfulness in each generation to the times of Jesus returns. I have the lists of 2x2 workers on line... And I have seen the list of the 12 apostles but not the full list of the 70 apostles in Luke 10. Oh for crying out loud Nathan what a cop-out. 2x2s be it by record or memory love regaling in the past workers, all that stops with the 1x1 William Irvine, you can't provide details that do not exist Nathan. The regailing of 2x2's only began after William Irvine, this means its a new custom, not an old one. Imo you don't even understand what an Apostle is, and because of what an Apostle actually is, if what you say is true you would easily be able to list them prior to William Irvine. As for a Aposlte of Jesus Christ, you would have to understand the Hebrew concepts around LORD and CHRIST to understand what it means by Paul being basically a self apointed apostle, and you would also have to understand the theatrical literature also known as the NT. These thing to be honest are something I don't believe you can comprehend with your present state of mind. In short you cannot list an unbroken 2x2 line as it all began with a 1x1 called William Irvine and throwing red herrings into the mix does not help your case. Ot would also help you to understand Hebrew custom so you do not confuse ancient custom with 2x2 custom. They are worlds apart. |
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Post by chuck on Sept 29, 2022 20:09:29 GMT -5
Leo was a "rote" instructor, but he considered himself uniquely inspired. ** Leo Stancliff had a good and clear understanding of Jesus Christ New Testament ministry and the church to worship Godhead in the homes of believers. Leo Stancliff had a great knowledge and understanding of the Bible than many workers I have met in my 45 years as a worker and a 2x2 friend. I had been studying the Bible under Leo's teachings for 10 hours a week for many months. Leo imparted to me the solid foundation of Christ Jesus is the Lord God teaching. He said once a person has an understanding and knowledge of who Christ is then the Bible will open up to them like a beautiful butter fly. Its obvious you are an Apostle of the workers and not an Apostle of the gracious compassionate slow to anger and abounding in love and forgiveness influence. Leo in all his sincerity didn't know much about the deeply jewish book at all, and he taught you. You talk about Leo finding the lost sheep, do you even realise the significance of telling the Pharisees about the shepherd looking for lost sheep in this cultural setting, its like saying in todays language to the religious exclusives, "suppose one of you lose a pole dancer"(in case you didn't get it instead of being a shepard your a strip club owner)......... Watch the muttering begin....... Now the tax collectors and sinners were all gathering around to hear Jesus.But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law muttered, “This man welcomes sinners and eats with them.”Then Jesus told them this parable:4 “Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it?5 And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders6 and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’7 I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent. - Luke 15:1-7 www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke15:1-7&version=NIV |
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Post by Grant on Sept 29, 2022 20:29:55 GMT -5
You're in one. You jumped from one into another . ** Yep, I was on the frying pan/RCC and jumped into the hot fire/Pentecostal Protestant then God delivered me from them and lead me to Jesus Christ 2x2 truth and way on earth the 2x2s workers in the 21st century. I prayed to God to show me and guide me to His true servants and people on earth. A few weeks, later God lead me to Leo Stancliff and Larry Taylor were having Bible studies on the University campus lawn in 1978. Talking about God fast answered prayer! What a wonderful and great God and Savior we have! Truly awesome. After 45 years as a 2x2 I can truly say God did NOT and has NOT disappointed me at all. As I said, you're in one - current. You jumped from one - Pentecostalism into another- Irvinism. It's just another man made break away group. |
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Post by nathan2 on Sept 29, 2022 20:36:17 GMT -5
** I heard about William Irvine when I was in the work from 1986-93. I was told by the workers that he was a charismatic preacher/worker but pride and a womanized behavior got him in big trouble so, he was excommunicated from the ministry. So Irvine was just preacher in an otherwise unbroken line back to the shores of Galilee. Now you know that that is not the truth right? ** It goes back to the Faith Mission, and those before them, the Waldenses, the Vaudois, the apostle Paul, Peter, John and to Christ Jesus the founder of the New Testament covenant. Whathat an ex-2×2 gave us the list of 2x2 apostles/workers through the centuries back to Jesus Christ. |
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Post by nathan2 on Sept 29, 2022 20:41:34 GMT -5
I don't know or have the record of 2x2 apostles through the centuries, the records is kept in heaven because each of them will be rewards for their faithfulness in each generation to the times of Jesus returns. I have the lists of 2x2 workers on line... And I have seen the list of the 12 apostles but not the full list of the 70 apostles in Luke 10. Oh for crying out loud Nathan what a cop-out. 2x2s be it by record or memory love regaling in the past workers, all that stops with the 1x1 William Irvine, you can't provide details that do not exist Nathan. The regailing of 2x2's only began after William Irvine, this means its a new custom, not an old one. Imo you don't even understand what an Apostle is, and because of what an Apostle actually is, if what you say is true you would easily be able to list them prior to William Irvine. As for a Aposlte of Jesus Christ, you would have to understand the Hebrew concepts around LORD and CHRIST to understand what it means by Paul being basically a self apointed apostle, and you would also have to understand the theatrical literature also known as the NT. These thing to be honest are something I don't believe you can comprehend with your present state of mind. In short you cannot list an unbroken 2x2 line as it all began with a 1x1 called William Irvine and throwing red herrings into the mix does not help your case. Ot would also help you to understand Hebrew custom so you do not confuse ancient custom with 2x2 custom. They are worlds apart. ** William Irvine started with John Long as 2x2 workers. I believe in Jesus words and teachings of his 2x2 unbroken apostolic ministry and New Testament church preserved by God through the centuries to the time of His returns. With your Hebrews mind you can't NEVER understand it, it seems the Holy Spirit is NOT on your side, Chuck because you depend too much on Hebrews mind and cultures to understand the scriptures. |
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Post by verna on Sept 29, 2022 20:42:38 GMT -5
So Irvine was just preacher in an otherwise unbroken line back to the shores of Galilee. Now you know that that is not the truth right? ** It goes back to the Faith Mission, and those before them, the Waldenses, the Vaudois, the apostle Paul, Peter, John and to Christ Jesus the founder of the New Testament covenant. Whathat an ex-2×2 gave us the list of 2x2 apostles/workers through the centuries back to Jesus Christ. l That is definitely a broken line if you can call it a line at all. Please stop propagating a lie Nathan. It just leads to hurt. |
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Post by nathan2 on Sept 29, 2022 20:52:29 GMT -5
** It goes back to the Faith Mission, and those before them, the Waldenses, the Vaudois, the apostle Paul, Peter, John and to Christ Jesus the founder of the New Testament covenant. Whathat an ex-2×2 gave us the list of 2x2 apostles/workers through the centuries back to Jesus Christ. l That is definitely a broken line if you can call it a line at all. Please stop propagating a lie Nathan. It just leads to hurt. ** How can it be broken? When there are God's true servants or apostles and true followers of Jesus have existed in every genetation? Read Rev. 7:9 John saw a great multitude of believers which no man can count. The 2x2s workers is only 125 years and the numbers are less than 100,000 by now. The great multitude are they who have been calling out through the gospel of Jesus Christ since the 1st century to the time of Jesus returns.... That will be 2000 years plus where people come from many nations to receive Christ 2x2 New Testament apostolic gospel= great multitude of true believers in every generation. |
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Post by verna on Sept 29, 2022 21:05:14 GMT -5
l That is definitely a broken line if you can call it a line at all. Please stop propagating a lie Nathan. It just leads to hurt. ** How can it be broken? When there are God's true servants or apostles and true followers of Jesus have existed in every genetation? Read Rev. 7:9 John saw a great multitude of believers which no man can count. The 2x2s workers is only 125 years and the numbers are less than 100,000 by now. The great multitude are they who have been calling out through the gospel of Jesus Christ since the 1st century to the time of Jesus returns. You put it together Nathan. Your math and mine are incompatible. It doesn’t add up any way you look at it. I don’t even have words for the type of logic you use. Baffle with bs comes to mind but it seems you actually really believe it. I know you have lots invested - 45 years. Hard to back down now hey? |
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Post by help on Sept 29, 2022 21:06:17 GMT -5
I think Nathan needs to read Cherie's book, Preserving the Truth: The Church without a Name and Its Founder, William Irvine.
Then he might understand the truth about when 2x2ism was invented.
He probably sings that hymn, "Teach me Lord to be one eyed".
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