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Post by snow on Sept 29, 2022 15:33:29 GMT -5
There is almost a never ending number of religious messages on the net to choose from. You can find out all about any church or religion you choose. Very hard to understand why Nathan's message would be the only right one. Religion is partly about the necessity to have certainty in life. Life is uncertain but if you can believe in a God that will save you from all that when you die that makes life a little easier to cope with? Many people talk about 'if this is all there is' and I get that, however making up a happy ending to feel better doesn't work for everyone. Some people don't like feeling like they are just fooling themselves in order to cope. Face the facts. There is no proof of any of the thousands of gods and god stories being true. But if you do feel you must believe in a certain god and it's story then you also have to believe that you're the only one that has the 'right' god. |
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Post by verna on Sept 29, 2022 15:33:30 GMT -5
I know all that. I know it's convenient and more efficient. That wasn't my question though. How can something deemed evil, not be evil just because it becomes convenient? ** Internet like fire it can be VERY deadly in the hand of arsonist. The fire can safe life with cooking foods, keep our bodies warm in the winter and so on. So, the Internet/fire can give life or take life it depends how a person uses it. So the workers have only just figured this out? This is snow’s point. This is the same as it has always been. TV is also used for good and bad purposes. That’s true with all things I would guess. |
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Post by snow on Sept 29, 2022 15:38:07 GMT -5
Those early Workers used to use the line "Without script or purse" frequently, it was a badge of honour. Never ever heard it was only to last for three weeks. The early workers actually did live that way. Now the workers never leave their 'purses' behind. I had some respect for the early workers that actually worked. I remember Stanley Sharpe coming out to the farm and rolling up his sleeves and really working hard. I remember once during flood time a calf had fallen into the river and dad and Stanley were trying to rescue it. Stanley was in that cold raging water pushing the calf up onto the shore to it could be pulled out of the water. Loved that worker and also Stanley Lee. He was older and couldn't work as much as Stanley Sharpe, but he did what he could. Gruff old guy, but he had a good heart even though he used to wage some pretty mean fire and brimstone preaching in meetings ha. |
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Post by verna on Sept 29, 2022 15:38:56 GMT -5
so why not tell this story then? Why hide? *** They did, read Patterson account on the early days, George Walker letter to U.S. selective service government during WWII. I posted on TMB the 2 letters to a worker in 2001 where he mentioned the history of the early days. Dr. Cornelius/professing man from Canada wrote a book about the history of 2x2, he mentioned in the early days the senior workers consider William Irvine as one of the leaders NOT a founder. So - let me see - that’s maybe a half dozen who told the story. Growing up I never heard it once in all the hours I spent in meeting. Come on Nathan - you know better. Please try to be honest. I am serious about truth and reconciliation. I expect it. No more games. Please!!! |
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Sept 29, 2022 15:44:40 GMT -5
** Internet like fire it can be VERY deadly in the hand of arsonist. The fire can safe life with cooking foods, keep our bodies warm in the winter and so on. So, the Internet/fire can give life or take life it depends how a person uses it. While you didn't answer the question about how evil isn't evil anymore when it's convenient, I do agree with what you did say. It definitely can be used for both good and bad. No question. Like Dan wrote there are sites on the Internet are NOT good for many people to go because it feeds on the human flesh, gambling sites and it can lead to natural and spiritual deaths. Wings site has a list of 2x2s fell into the traps and snares and got arrested and sent to jails/prison. However, if people don't venture to those evil places then the Internet is a wonderful, education tools for school homeworks and so on. Certain Inernet sites can be trouble/evil places for some people, but most people have stay away from such sites then life is good. |
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Post by snow on Sept 29, 2022 15:49:04 GMT -5
*** They did, read Patterson account on the early days, George Walker letter to U.S. selective service government during WWII. I posted on TMB the 2 letters to a worker in 2001 where he mentioned the history of the early days. Dr. Cornelius/professing man from Canada wrote a book about the history of 2x2, he mentioned in the early days the senior workers consider William Irvine as one of the leaders NOT a founder. So - let me see - that’s maybe a half dozen who told the story. Growing up I never heard it once in all the hours I spent in meeting. Come on Nathan - you know better. Please try to be honest. I am serious about truth and reconciliation. I expect it. No more games. Please!!! I never heard of Irvine either. You would think that if they were telling us about him I would have known, or at least my grandfather and father would have known. My grandfather professed in about 1918 when Willie Jamison came and spent the winter on his ranch. So if anyone should have known about Irvine it would be Willie. But never heard about Irvine from either of them. It was not common knowledge. When people felt betrayed about being told it was 'from the shore of Galilee' which was preached all the time in meetings, they had a very legitimate reason. We were led to believe it was an unbroken line of workers from the days that Jesus lived. Finding out it was started in 1880 something was a huge blow to a lot of people. To be told it was the only right way was one of the reasons people were okay with the exclusiveness of it and all the isolation from the 'worldlies'. When they found out that they weren't in a church any different from the Catholic or United church, just with stricter rules, they rightly felt lied to and betrayed. |
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Post by nathan2 on Sept 29, 2022 16:13:13 GMT -5
Those early Workers used to use the line "Without script or purse" frequently, it was a badge of honour. Never ever heard it was only to last for three weeks. The early workers actually did live that way. Now the workers never leave their 'purses' behind. I had some respect for the early workers that actually worked. I remember Stanley Sharpe coming out to the farm and rolling up his sleeves and really working hard. I remember once during flood time a calf had fallen into the river and dad and Stanley were trying to rescue it. Stanley was in that cold raging water pushing the calf up onto the shore to it could be pulled out of the water. Loved that worker and also Stanley Lee. He was older and couldn't work as much as Stanley Sharpe, but he did what he could. Gruff old guy, but he had a good heart even though he used to wage some pretty mean fire and brimstone preaching in meetings ha. ** I professed on Guam in 1979 when Stantley Sharpe was the senior worker who tested the last meeting. My first year companion was invited to Sask. for conventions and when he heard I was John's Companion. He asked John to bring me along! And I got attended 2 convention.  I saw Stanley S. and he passed away a few years later. He was indeed a kind, compassionate man of God. Usually, the first year workers don't get to go out of states for conventions. That year I got to attend 2 conventions and met many Sask. workers. We went through Alberta to get home. Wow! and the scenery was truly awesome. When I was in the work, we helped the friends doing dishes after suppers, mowing the yard, fixing the roof of their house, painting the house, and so on. |
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Post by nathan2 on Sept 29, 2022 16:29:26 GMT -5
So - let me see - that’s maybe a half dozen who told the story. Growing up I never heard it once in all the hours I spent in meeting. Come on Nathan - you know better. Please try to be honest. I am serious about truth and reconciliation. I expect it. No more games. Please!!! I never heard of Irvine either. You would think that if they were telling us about him I would have known, or at least my grandfather and father would have known. My grandfather professed in about 1918 when Willie Jamison came and spent the winter on his ranch. So if anyone should have known about Irvine it would be Willie. But never heard about Irvine from either of them. It was not common knowledge. When people felt betrayed about being told it was 'from the shore of Galilee' which was preached all the time in meetings, they had a very legitimate reason. We were led to believe it was an unbroken line of workers from the days that Jesus lived. Finding out it was started in 1880 something was a huge blow to a lot of people. To be told it was the only right way was one of the reasons people were okay with the exclusiveness of it and all the isolation from the 'worldlies'. When they found out that they weren't in a church any different from the Catholic or United church, just with stricter rules, they rightly felt lied to and betrayed. ** The history part share in the homes NOT in the gospel meetings. When I was in the work from 1988-93, I shared the story of how my companion and I heard a church historian had given a lecture about the apostle Peter Waldo, a Waldensian in 1160 and I gave the friends in the field and some workers part of the Pilgrim Church book on the Vaudois Christians. Jesus 2x2 apostolic ministry didn't start by William Irvine, the 2x2s early days workers or by the Faith Mission but by Jesus Christ himself in 30 A.D. and the apostles continued on through the centuries and to our days. Jesus said I am the Way, the Truth and life. Jesus Christ the same as yesterday, today and forever. The New Testament 2x2 apostolic ministry is for every generation to adhere and follow. The RCC Priesthood/Church and 50,000 plus Protestant denomination are of men ideas because they didn't KNOW Jesus New Testament ministry and fellowship has been preserved and nourished by God for centuries read Rev. Chapters 11,12,13. |
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Post by help on Sept 29, 2022 16:34:07 GMT -5
All the Christian Churches we have attended preached the Jesus story, guess that is why they are called Christians. Makes sense. It was just without 2x2 spin.
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Sept 29, 2022 16:35:41 GMT -5
*** They did, read Patterson account on the early days, George Walker letter to U.S. selective service government during WWII. I posted on TMB the 2 letters to a worker in 2001 where he mentioned the history of the early days. Dr. Cornelius/professing man from Canada wrote a book about the history of 2x2, he mentioned in the early days the senior workers consider William Irvine as one of the leaders NOT a founder. So - let me see - that’s maybe a half dozen who told the story. Growing up I never heard it once in all the hours I spent in meeting. Come on Nathan - you know better. Please try to be honest. I am serious about truth and reconciliation. I expect it. No more games. Please! ** I heard about William Irvine when I was in the work from 1986-93. I was told by the workers that he was a charismatic preacher/worker but pride and a womanized behavior got him in big trouble so, he was excommunicated from the ministry. |
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Post by snow on Sept 29, 2022 16:35:54 GMT -5
The early workers actually did live that way. Now the workers never leave their 'purses' behind. I had some respect for the early workers that actually worked. I remember Stanley Sharpe coming out to the farm and rolling up his sleeves and really working hard. I remember once during flood time a calf had fallen into the river and dad and Stanley were trying to rescue it. Stanley was in that cold raging water pushing the calf up onto the shore to it could be pulled out of the water. Loved that worker and also Stanley Lee. He was older and couldn't work as much as Stanley Sharpe, but he did what he could. Gruff old guy, but he had a good heart even though he used to wage some pretty mean fire and brimstone preaching in meetings ha. ** I professed on Guam in 1979 when Stantley Sharpe was the senior worker who tested the last meeting. My first year companion was invited to Sask. for conventions and when he heard I was John's Companion. He asked John to bring me along! And I got attended 2 convention. I saw Stanley S. and he passed away a few years later. He was indeed a kind, compassionate man of God. Usually, the first year workers don't get to go out of states for conventions. That year I got to attend 2 conventions and met many Sask. workers. We went through Alberta to get home. Wow! and the scenery was truly awesome. When I was in the work, we helped the friends doing dishes after suppers, mowing the yard, fixing the roof of their house, painting the house, and so on. That's wonderful Nathan. He was truly kind and compassionate. Thank you for being the worker that helped. I remember some that did nothing but sit around and let my elderly mother cater to them. Having said that though, I do remember some very helpful and loving workers. |
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Post by snow on Sept 29, 2022 16:39:32 GMT -5
I never heard of Irvine either. You would think that if they were telling us about him I would have known, or at least my grandfather and father would have known. My grandfather professed in about 1918 when Willie Jamison came and spent the winter on his ranch. So if anyone should have known about Irvine it would be Willie. But never heard about Irvine from either of them. It was not common knowledge. When people felt betrayed about being told it was 'from the shore of Galilee' which was preached all the time in meetings, they had a very legitimate reason. We were led to believe it was an unbroken line of workers from the days that Jesus lived. Finding out it was started in 1880 something was a huge blow to a lot of people. To be told it was the only right way was one of the reasons people were okay with the exclusiveness of it and all the isolation from the 'worldlies'. When they found out that they weren't in a church any different from the Catholic or United church, just with stricter rules, they rightly felt lied to and betrayed. ** The history part share in the homes NOT in the gospel meetings. When I was in the work from 1988-93, I shared the story of how my companion and I heard a church historian had given a lecture about the apostle Peter Waldo, a Waldensian in 1160 and I gave the friends in the field and some workers part of the Pilgrim Church book on the Vaudois Christians. Jesus 2x2 apostolic ministry didn't start by William Irvine, the 2x2s early days workers or by the Faith Mission but by Jesus Christ himself in 30 A.D. and the apostles continued on through the centuries and to our days. Jesus said I am the Way, the Truth and life. Jesus Christ the same as yesterday, today and forever. The New Testament 2x2 apostolic ministry is for every generation to adhere and follow. The RCC Priesthood/Church and 50,000 plus Protestant denomination are of men ideas because they didn't KNOW Jesus New Testament ministry and fellowship has been preserved and nourished by God for centuries read Rev. Chapters 11,12,13. Waldo was an excommunicated Catholic. They believed in the Trinity. The workers do not. WALDO ("Valdesius") CONFESSION OF FAITH : Catholic to the Core
"In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and of the Blessed and Ever-Virgin Mary. Be it noted by all the faithful that I, Valdesius, and all my brethren, standing before the Holy Gospels, do declare that we believe with all our hearts, having been grasped by faith, that we profess openly that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three Persons, one God....
"We firmly believe and explicitly declare that the incarnation of the Divinity did not take place in the Father and the Holy Spirit, but solely in the Son, so that he who was the divine Son of God the Father was also true man from his Mother.
"We believe one Church, Catholic, Holy, Apostolic and Immaculate, apart from which no one can be saved, and in the sacraments therein administered through the invisible and incomprehensible power of the Holy Spirit, sacraments which may be rightly administered by a sinful priest....
"We firmly believe in the judgment to come and in the fact that each man will receive reward or punishment according to what he has done in this flesh. We do not doubt the fact that alms, sacrifice, and other charitable acts are able to be of assistance to those who die.
"And since, according to the Apostle James, faith without works is dead, we have renounced this world and have distributed to the poor all that we possess, according to the will of God, and we have decided that we ourselves should be poor in such a way as not to be careful for the morrow, and to accept from no one gold, silver, or anything else, with the exception of raiment and daily food. We have set before ourselves the objective of fulfilling the Gospel counsels as precepts.
"We believe that anyone in this age who keeps to a proper life, giving alms and doing other good works from his own possessions and observing the precepts from the Lord, can be saved.
"We make this declaration in order that if anyone should come to you affirming that he is one of us, you may know for certain that he is not one of us if he does not profess this same faith." [12]
In a statement of faith submitted to the bishop of Albano, Peter Waldo affirmed his belief in transubstantiation, prayers for the dead, and infant baptism. [13] The famed Baptist historian A.H. Newman drew the only conclusion warranted by the evidence.
"Waldo and his early followers had more in common with...Roman Catholicism than with any evangelical party. His views of life and doctrine were scarcely in advance of many earnest Catholics of the time." [14] |
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Post by nathan2 on Sept 29, 2022 16:41:15 GMT -5
All the Christian Churches we have attended preached the Jesus story, guess that is why they are called Christians. Makes sense. It was just without 2x2 spin. Let me ask you this Do they preach and teach Jesus Christ New Testament apostolic ministry like in the gospels, the book of Acts, the epistles of the apostles? And the New testament communion partake in the homes of the believers. Do you know Which church or denomination that have both Jesus 2x2 apostolic ministry like the apostles and New Testament communion in the homes of believers on Sunday. |
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Post by help on Sept 29, 2022 16:47:42 GMT -5
Any Christian Church on a Sunday in a Church not a house. Where you sit makes no difference to the message preached. Suggest Nathan you visit a few of them to find out for yourself.
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Sept 29, 2022 16:48:49 GMT -5
** The history part share in the homes NOT in the gospel meetings. When I was in the work from 1988-93, I shared the story of how my companion and I heard a church historian had given a lecture about the apostle Peter Waldo, a Waldensian in 1160 and I gave the friends in the field and some workers part of the Pilgrim Church book on the Vaudois Christians. Jesus 2x2 apostolic ministry didn't start by William Irvine, the 2x2s early days workers or by the Faith Mission but by Jesus Christ himself in 30 A.D. and the apostles continued on through the centuries and to our days. Jesus said I am the Way, the Truth and life. Jesus Christ the same as yesterday, today and forever. The New Testament 2x2 apostolic ministry is for every generation to adhere and follow. The RCC Priesthood/Church and 50,000 plus Protestant denomination are of men ideas because they didn't KNOW Jesus New Testament ministry and fellowship has been preserved and nourished by God for centuries read Rev. Chapters 11,12,13. Waldo was an excommunicated Catholic. They believed in the Trinity. The workers do not. WALDO ("Valdesius") CONFESSION OF FAITH : Catholic to the Core
"In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and of the Blessed and Ever-Virgin Mary. Be it noted by all the faithful that I, Valdesius, and all my brethren, standing before the Holy Gospels, do declare that we believe with all our hearts, having been grasped by faith, that we profess openly that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three Persons, one God....
"We firmly believe and explicitly declare that the incarnation of the Divinity did not take place in the Father and the Holy Spirit, but solely in the Son, so that he who was the divine Son of God the Father was also true man from his Mother.
"We believe one Church, Catholic, Holy, Apostolic and Immaculate, apart from which no one can be saved, and in the sacraments therein administered through the invisible and incomprehensible power of the Holy Spirit, sacraments which may be rightly administered by a sinful priest....
"We firmly believe in the judgment to come and in the fact that each man will receive reward or punishment according to what he has done in this flesh. We do not doubt the fact that alms, sacrifice, and other charitable acts are able to be of assistance to those who die.
"And since, according to the Apostle James, faith without works is dead, we have renounced this world and have distributed to the poor all that we possess, according to the will of God, and we have decided that we ourselves should be poor in such a way as not to be careful for the morrow, and to accept from no one gold, silver, or anything else, with the exception of raiment and daily food. We have set before ourselves the objective of fulfilling the Gospel counsels as precepts.
"We believe that anyone in this age who keeps to a proper life, giving alms and doing other good works from his own possessions and observing the precepts from the Lord, can be saved.
"We make this declaration in order that if anyone should come to you affirming that he is one of us, you may know for certain that he is not one of us if he does not profess this same faith." [12]
In a statement of faith submitted to the bishop of Albano, Peter Waldo affirmed his belief in transubstantiation, prayers for the dead, and infant baptism. [13] The famed Baptist historian A.H. Newman drew the only conclusion warranted by the evidence.
"Waldo and his early followers had more in common with...Roman Catholicism than with any evangelical party. His views of life and doctrine were scarcely in advance of many earnest Catholics of the time." [14]** Peter Waldo, a French man and his family was a RCC then he met a Waldense preacher in 1160 who told him about Jesus Christ 2x2 Apostolic ministry. He left the RCC and became a WaldensIan preacher. He sold all his possesions and gave to his wife and daughter. He went forth in the ministry 1170 to the time of his death. These information came from the Pilgrim Church book chapter 10. The RCC and the Vaudois believers came from the same root of the 1st century Church. RCC veered off from the True teachings of Jesus Christ and adopted many of the pagans practices, rituals, ceremonies within the church services. The Vaudois, Waldenses true believers keep true to Jesus 2x2 apostolic ministry and New Testament the way of worship. Yes, the RCC and Vaudois both believe in partake Christs Communions; the believe in the Trinity/Tribune God or the Go head and Christ is God like unto the Father. |
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Post by nathan2 on Sept 29, 2022 16:52:21 GMT -5
Any Christian Church on a Sunday in a Church not a house. Where you sit makes no difference to the message preached. Suggest Nathan you visit a few of them to find out for yourself. I came out of the RCC all boys private school. I also came out of the Pentecostal denomination. Thanks, but no thanks. I don't want to go back to Satan's false RCC and his 50,000 plus Protestant denominations ever again. |
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Post by snow on Sept 29, 2022 17:01:59 GMT -5
Waldo was an excommunicated Catholic. They believed in the Trinity. The workers do not. WALDO ("Valdesius") CONFESSION OF FAITH : Catholic to the Core
"In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and of the Blessed and Ever-Virgin Mary. Be it noted by all the faithful that I, Valdesius, and all my brethren, standing before the Holy Gospels, do declare that we believe with all our hearts, having been grasped by faith, that we profess openly that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three Persons, one God....
"We firmly believe and explicitly declare that the incarnation of the Divinity did not take place in the Father and the Holy Spirit, but solely in the Son, so that he who was the divine Son of God the Father was also true man from his Mother.
"We believe one Church, Catholic, Holy, Apostolic and Immaculate, apart from which no one can be saved, and in the sacraments therein administered through the invisible and incomprehensible power of the Holy Spirit, sacraments which may be rightly administered by a sinful priest....
"We firmly believe in the judgment to come and in the fact that each man will receive reward or punishment according to what he has done in this flesh. We do not doubt the fact that alms, sacrifice, and other charitable acts are able to be of assistance to those who die.
"And since, according to the Apostle James, faith without works is dead, we have renounced this world and have distributed to the poor all that we possess, according to the will of God, and we have decided that we ourselves should be poor in such a way as not to be careful for the morrow, and to accept from no one gold, silver, or anything else, with the exception of raiment and daily food. We have set before ourselves the objective of fulfilling the Gospel counsels as precepts.
"We believe that anyone in this age who keeps to a proper life, giving alms and doing other good works from his own possessions and observing the precepts from the Lord, can be saved.
"We make this declaration in order that if anyone should come to you affirming that he is one of us, you may know for certain that he is not one of us if he does not profess this same faith." [12]
In a statement of faith submitted to the bishop of Albano, Peter Waldo affirmed his belief in transubstantiation, prayers for the dead, and infant baptism. [13] The famed Baptist historian A.H. Newman drew the only conclusion warranted by the evidence.
"Waldo and his early followers had more in common with...Roman Catholicism than with any evangelical party. His views of life and doctrine were scarcely in advance of many earnest Catholics of the time." [14]** Peter Waldo, a French man and his family was a RCC then he met a Waldense preacher in 1160 who told him about Jesus Christ 2x2 Apostolic ministry. He left the RCC and became a WaldensIan preacher. He sold all his possesions and gave to his wife and daughter. He went forth in the ministry 1170 to the time of his death. These information came from the Pilgrim Church book chapter 10. What he wanted was to go out and sell all his possessions etc and preach like Matthew told them to. He was upset with the RCC because they weren't doing that. He petitioned the RCC numerous times asking to be made a priest so he could go out and preach his poverty message and they wouldn't do it. They finally got fed up with his and excommunicated him. But when he went and did his own thing, his confessions of faith were so similar to the RCC beliefs that he could never be called a 2x2 worker in any way other than he did sell his possessions and take an oath of poverty ministry. He believed in the trinity, transubstantiation, infant baptism etc. That doesn't sound anything like what I grew up learning. |
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Sept 29, 2022 17:07:37 GMT -5
** Peter Waldo, a French man and his family was a RCC then he met a Waldense preacher in 1160 who told him about Jesus Christ 2x2 Apostolic ministry. He left the RCC and became a WaldensIan preacher. He sold all his possesions and gave to his wife and daughter. He went forth in the ministry 1170 to the time of his death. These information came from the Pilgrim Church book chapter 10. What he wanted was to go out and sell all his possessions etc and preach like Matthew told them to. He was upset with the RCC because they weren't doing that. He petitioned the RCC numerous times asking to be made a priest so he could go out and preach his poverty message and they wouldn't do it. They finally got fed up with his and excommunicated him. But when he went and did his own thing, his confessions of faith were so similar to the RCC beliefs that he could never be called a 2x2 worker in any way other than he did sell his possessions and take an oath of poverty ministry. He believed in the trinity, transubstantiation, infant baptism etc. That doesn't sound anything like what I grew up learning. ** It takes years to uproots all of the false doctrines I had learned from the RCC and Pentecostal teachings. The same way with Ex-RCC Peter Waldo. I have heard and read of workers and the friends who came out from Protestant churchesvand RCC it will take them years to get rid off6 the false teachings had planted in their minds. |
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Post by help on Sept 29, 2022 17:09:03 GMT -5
Any Christian Church on a Sunday in a Church not a house. Where you sit makes no difference to the message preached. Suggest Nathan you visit a few of them to find out for yourself. I came out of the RCC all boys private school. I also came out of the Pentecostal denomination. Thanks, but no thanks. I don't want to go back to Satan's false RCC and his 50,000 plus Protestant denominations ever again. Just a biased 2x2 mindset. Thank goodness our 2x2 friends don't think the same way. |
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Post by snow on Sept 29, 2022 17:12:57 GMT -5
What he wanted was to go out and sell all his possessions etc and preach like Matthew told them to. He was upset with the RCC because they weren't doing that. He petitioned the RCC numerous times asking to be made a priest so he could go out and preach his poverty message and they wouldn't do it. They finally got fed up with his and excommunicated him. But when he went and did his own thing, his confessions of faith were so similar to the RCC beliefs that he could never be called a 2x2 worker in any way other than he did sell his possessions and take an oath of poverty ministry. He believed in the trinity, transubstantiation, infant baptism etc. That doesn't sound anything like what I grew up learning. ** It takes years to uproots all of the false doctrines I had learned from the RCC and Pentecostal teachings. The same way with Ex-RCC Peter Waldo. I have heard and read of workers and the friends who came out from Protestant and RCC it will take them years to get rid of the false teachings had planted in their minds. I would agree that it does take years. But that isn't what you are claiming. You are claiming that the Waldenses are just 2x2's under a different name when you're trying to prove that the group really does go back to the 'shores of Galilee' and that simply isn't true. Yes there have been groups in history that tried to walk the walk of what Mathew was saying about selling possessions, the poverty ministry. The Cathars are another group that tried to do that too. But just because there were other groups in history that tried in various ways to follow the poverty ministry that doesn't mean that they were ever 'workers' and it doesn't mean that Irvine didn't start the current version of the poverty ministry with the friends and workers label. |
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Post by nathan2 on Sept 29, 2022 17:23:41 GMT -5
I came out of the RCC all boys private school. I also came out of the Pentecostal denomination. Thanks, but no thanks. I don't want to go back to Satan's false RCC and his 50,000 plus Protestant denominations ever again. Just a biased 2x2 mindset. Thank goodness our 2x2 friends don't think the same way. ** Nothing bias about it; it's the Truth. |
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Post by Annan on Sept 29, 2022 17:25:23 GMT -5
Just a biased 2x2 mindset. Thank goodness our 2x2 friends don't think the same way. ** Nothing bias about it; it's the Truth. ** It’s your truth. Nothing more. |
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Post by nathan2 on Sept 29, 2022 17:28:39 GMT -5
** It takes years to uproots all of the false doctrines I had learned from the RCC and Pentecostal teachings. The same way with Ex-RCC Peter Waldo. I have heard and read of workers and the friends who came out from Protestant and RCC it will take them years to get rid of the false teachings had planted in their minds. I would agree that it does take years. But that isn't what you are claiming. You are claiming that the Waldenses are just 2x2's under a different name when you're trying to prove that the group really does go back to the 'shores of Galilee' and that simply isn't true. Yes there have been groups in history that tried to walk the walk of what Mathew was saying about selling possessions, the poverty ministry. The Cathars are another group that tried to do that too. But just because there were other groups in history that tried in various ways to follow the poverty ministry that doesn't mean that they were ever 'workers' and it doesn't mean that Irvine didn't start the current version of the poverty ministry with the friends and workers label. ** The Vaudous/Waldenses; Albigeses and those like them through the centuries and the early days 2x2s workers have similar spirits of Jesus Christ New Testament teachings because the same Holy Spirit is teaching them the same doctrines and belief. I have the Vaudois teachings and belief and I compare with the early days 2x2 workers teachings and belief are astounding!and identical in many ways. How could that be? Because both have been taught by the same Holy Spirit, He points and reveals the TRUE teachings of Christ Jesus the New Testament teachings to adhere and follow to the time of His returns. |
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Post by snow on Sept 29, 2022 17:36:06 GMT -5
I would agree that it does take years. But that isn't what you are claiming. You are claiming that the Waldenses are just 2x2's under a different name when you're trying to prove that the group really does go back to the 'shores of Galilee' and that simply isn't true. Yes there have been groups in history that tried to walk the walk of what Mathew was saying about selling possessions, the poverty ministry. The Cathars are another group that tried to do that too. But just because there were other groups in history that tried in various ways to follow the poverty ministry that doesn't mean that they were ever 'workers' and it doesn't mean that Irvine didn't start the current version of the poverty ministry with the friends and workers label. ** The Vaudous/Waldenses; Albigeses and those like them through the centuries and the early days 2x2s workers have similar spirits of Jesus Christ New Testament teachings because the same Holy Spirit is teaching them the same doctrines and belief. That may be true, but it's not the same thing as saying there has been an unbroken line of workers from the time of Christ. That is simply untrue. But the workers trotted out that line in meetings all the time. Many people believed because of this unbroken lineage that they were in the group Jesus started. They have been in a group that Jesus might have approved of, but they were not in a group that started in the days of Jesus. We have not got a workers list that dates back any further than when Irvine started his version of the poverty ministry. He started the friends and workers version. The 2x2 ministry dates back to when it was considered essential for two people to bear witness to a crime. Deuteronomy 19:15 says “A single witness shall not suffice against a person for any crime or for any wrong in connection with any offense that he has committed. Only on the evidence of two witnesses or of three witnesses shall a charge be established.” ~ |
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Post by chuck on Sept 29, 2022 17:46:06 GMT -5
"I am so glad that Leo Stancliff and his co-workers tried various methods in reaching and findings lost sheep, lost coins in the world." To me that sums up the fact that Workers play God. You have put the Workers in the position of the God character in these parables and you didn't do it by mistake, you did it because you have never understood it and just like your teacher Leo, are/was ignorant of the Hebrew culture surrounding these 3 parables and have abused them.
Like many on here have expressed, with your understanding the Hebrew culture to understand the Bible has messed up your thinking and mind about the Scriptures without trusting in the Holy Spirit to guide you.
This is a comprehension issue Nathan, you don't need Hebrew anything to see you have placed the workers and for that matter yourself in the God character position in those parables. This is what you said.... "I am so glad that Leo Stancliff and his co-workers tried various methods in reaching and findings lost sheep, lost coins in the world." You have Just said Leo and his co-workers find the lost sheep and coins, it is also worth noting you missed the lost son which is a part of the other 2 parables. I will assume you also think Leo, his co-workers and yourself find lost son's?. How can you not understand the position you have placed the workers and yourself in when using these parables?. nathan, do you think God represents the shepherd, the woman and the father character in these parables or do the workers and yourself represent the shepherd the woman and the father character in these parables?. |
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nathan2
Royal Member
Nathan again
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Posts: 5,258
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Post by nathan2 on Sept 29, 2022 17:53:32 GMT -5
** The Vaudous/Waldenses; Albigeses and those like them through the centuries and the early days 2x2s workers have similar spirits of Jesus Christ New Testament teachings because the same Holy Spirit is teaching them the same doctrines and belief. That may be true, but it's not the same thing as saying there has been an unbroken line of workers from the time of Christ. That is simply untrue. But the workers trotted out that line in meetings all the time. Many people believed because of this unbroken lineage that they were in the group Jesus started. They have been in a group that Jesus might have approved of, but they were not in a group that started in the days of Jesus. We have not got a workers list that dates back any further than when Irvine started his version of the poverty ministry. He started the friends and workers version. ** According to Jesus teachings and the apostles teachings, and the Vaudois and the RCC teachings! There is no broken line of God's 2x2 true apostles and workers. Jesus said in Matthew 24 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached and be Witness to all nations and then come the end. Jesus said in Matthew 16 to Peter and the apostles, Upon this ROCK I will built my Church and the gates of HELL shall NOT prevail against it. Jesus said in Matthew 28 to the apostles and his followes the Great Commission to all the world to the time of His returns and He will be with them always. I don't read of broken line or gap/ stump theory and restart in Jesus teachings! We read ONLY One TRUE church of Christ from START to FINISH. |
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Post by chuck on Sept 29, 2022 18:03:18 GMT -5
I didn't realise Jesus preached about the evil internet........ Stop incriminating the 1990 workers, they were just preaching the gospel.... |
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nathan2
Royal Member
Nathan again
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Posts: 5,258
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Post by nathan2 on Sept 29, 2022 18:11:27 GMT -5
** The Vaudous/Waldenses; Albigeses and those like them through the centuries and the early days 2x2s workers have similar spirits of Jesus Christ New Testament teachings because the same Holy Spirit is teaching them the same doctrines and belief. That may be true, but it's not the same thing as saying there has been an unbroken line of workers from the time of Christ. That is simply untrue. But the workers trotted out that line in meetings all the time. Many people believed because of this unbroken lineage that they were in the group Jesus started. They have been in a group that Jesus might have approved of, but they were not in a group that started in the days of Jesus. We have not got a workers list that dates back any further than when Irvine started his version of the poverty ministry. He started the friends and workers version. The 2x2 ministry dates back to when it was considered essential for two people to bear witness to a crime. Deuteronomy 19:15 says “A single witness shall not suffice against a person for any crime or for any wrong in connection with any offense that he has committed. Only on the evidence of two witnesses or of three witnesses shall a charge be established.” ~ ** The 2 and 2 ministry is God the Father and Christ perfect pattern or method for them to train/teach young workers such Timothy, Silas, John Mark, Luke to become preacher of the gospel, Sheperds, pastors,evangelists, teachers and missionaries to foreign countries. The younger workers/apostles like Timothy, Titus, Solar, Luke, John Mark learn from the older apostles like Barnabas, Paul, Peter, James, John and so on. After the apostles get too old and died the younger apostles/workers inherit their responsibilities to be leaders, pastors and shepherds to all churches. This is God and Christ method of private, one on one learning/school of in service training from many types of older workers styles of teachings. Take and imitate the Christ's like characters from each of the older worker into their own ministry when the time comes for them to have the responsibility as the senior workers. This in service training of young workers is to pass from one generation to the next to the time of Jesus returns. |
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