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Guns
Sept 18, 2020 0:16:57 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 0:16:57 GMT -5
Must say Wally you do have a very strange sense of humour. You just can't be serious.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 0:19:25 GMT -5
actually its a bit more gruesome to be hacked to death than to be shot...the comparison stands on its own... You are screaming hilarious. so you think its funny to be hacked to death or to be shot? curious minds want to know....
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Sept 18, 2020 0:20:59 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 0:20:59 GMT -5
Must say Wally you do have a very strange sense of humour. You just can't be serious. i don't find a hacking death or being shot funny at all. you may be projecting...
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Sept 18, 2020 0:23:33 GMT -5
Post by fixit on Sept 18, 2020 0:23:33 GMT -5
Wally I am surprised that a bright fellow like you has a problem with reading. The statistic I quoted states that the rate of 2.4 in 1980 was reduced to 0.4 in 2003. In 23 years the rate DROPPED by 85%. Simple Math, even this 81 year old is able to understand it. A good trend, speaks volumes for Australia. And we do it without Guns. The drop in rape crime coincides with the drop in gun ownership.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 0:26:10 GMT -5
Neither are necessary Wally and should not happen. We need a change of attitude. Working well for Domestic Violence in Australia. A lot of effort being made to turn it around.
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Post by fixit on Sept 18, 2020 0:29:01 GMT -5
I post a counter statistic. Note no mention of America. Your neighbour Canada rates well number 2. Which is the safest country in the world? Finland. Safest Country: 8. ... Sweden. Safest Country: 7. ... New Zealand. Safest Country: 6. ... Australia. Safest Country: 5. ... Denmark. Safest Country: 4. ... Norway. Safest Country: 3. Best Countries Overall Rank: 10. ... Canada. Safest Country: 2. Best Countries Overall Rank: 2. ... Switzerland. Safest Country: 1. Best Countries Overall Rank: 1. What's stopping the US from having a similar rate to Canada? Too many guns "keeping people safe"?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 0:36:35 GMT -5
Canada, New Zealand and Australia have a much better system of Government the good old Westminster. Tried and tested and it works.
USA's system is a Dog's breakfast, too fragmented. They should have stuck with the British.
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Sept 18, 2020 0:41:04 GMT -5
Post by BobWilliston on Sept 18, 2020 0:41:04 GMT -5
Canada, New Zealand and Australia have a much better system of Government the good old Westminster. Tried and tested and it works. USA's system is a Dog's breakfast, too fragmented. They should have stuck with the British. Ironically, the US found itself in the position following WW II to be writing constitutions for both Japan and Germany -- and both countries got parliamentary style governments. The US Constitution was designed for an apartheid society.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 0:44:12 GMT -5
Canada, New Zealand and Australia have a much better system of Government the good old Westminster. Tried and tested and it works. USA's system is a Dog's breakfast, too fragmented. They should have stuck with the British. The US Constitution was designed for an apartheid society. that is a crock of BS...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 0:46:58 GMT -5
Canada, New Zealand and Australia have a much better system of Government the good old Westminster. Tried and tested and it works. USA's system is a Dog's breakfast, too fragmented. They should have stuck with the British. yeah that is why everyone is trying to get into the USA instead of the Holy lands of NZ, Canada and Australia....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 0:56:55 GMT -5
Holy Moly Wally, you come up with some good ones. Think you have been mixing with Nathan too much.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 1:00:21 GMT -5
Holy Moly Wally, you come up with some good ones. Think you have been mixing with Nathan too much. people vote with their feet and i am not seeing a million or more people heading to the great white north or the down unders...
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Post by maryhig on Sept 18, 2020 1:02:30 GMT -5
Wally they are men's wars, and they use carnal weapons because they are wars of this world caused by man, there will always be wars and fighting in this world and weapons will always be used, because they are what the world fights with. But those who belong to God have faith and they fight for God, and they have the strength of God to overcome through Christ by the power of the Spirit, they are covered by the armour of God. And they use the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God to fight with. God's people are fighting a spiritual war not a carnal one. Jesus said this John 18 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence And Paul said this Ephesians 6 10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 6:12 FOR WE WRESTLE NOT AGAINST FLESH AND BLOOD, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. And then the armour of God is explained after those verses, which I have already quoted in a post above. Jesus said this also: Luk_22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. and he never rescinded that order either... and i have NEVER said that the kingdom/gospel should be spread with a sword/firearm...self-defense is a separate issue He's not speaking about a literal sword and literal garments. When would you sell your actual clothes to buy a sword? Wally Jesus didn't come and fight with swords, he wasn't violent he fought the good fight, he fought with the word of God and lived it out to bare witness to the truth and bring an example for us to follow. Jesus didn't teach us to fight, he taught us to love one another and even to love our enemies, do good to those that hate us, bless those that curse us and pray for those who dispitefully use us and deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow him. And once we do this, God will help us and strengthen us to overcome.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 1:15:30 GMT -5
Jesus said this also: Luk_22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. and he never rescinded that order either... and i have NEVER said that the kingdom/gospel should be spread with a sword/firearm...self-defense is a separate issue He's not speaking about a literal sword and literal garments. When would you sell your actual clothes to buy a sword? Wally Jesus didn't come and fight with swords, he wasn't violent he fought the good fight, he fought with the word of God and lived it out to bare witness to the truth and bring an example for us to follow. Jesus didn't teach us to fight, he taught us to love one another and even to love our enemies, do good to those that hate us, bless those that curse us and pray for those who dispitefully use us and deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow him. And once we do this, God will help us and strengthen us to overcome. sure he was his apostles went and presented him with two swords and he said that is enough...and it says garment(singular)not an entire wardrobe... then of course we have a literal purse and a literal scrip but no literal sword and no literal garment...that is an extremely naive/warped view of that verse...
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Post by maryhig on Sept 18, 2020 1:23:41 GMT -5
He's not speaking about a literal sword and literal garments. When would you sell your actual clothes to buy a sword? Wally Jesus didn't come and fight with swords, he wasn't violent he fought the good fight, he fought with the word of God and lived it out to bare witness to the truth and bring an example for us to follow. Jesus didn't teach us to fight, he taught us to love one another and even to love our enemies, do good to those that hate us, bless those that curse us and pray for those who dispitefully use us and deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow him. And once we do this, God will help us and strengthen us to overcome. sure he was his apostles went and presented him with two swords and he said that is enough...and it says garment(singular)not an entire wardrobe... then of course we have a literal purse and a literal script but no literal sword and no literal garment...that is an extremely naive/warped view of that verse... So you believe that Jesus taught his diciples to fight with swords? So in one hand he says love your enemies, and in the next he's telling them to go fight with swords? By the way, I doubt that they would have have had a whole wardrobe, they had hardly anything.
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Sept 18, 2020 1:27:32 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 1:27:32 GMT -5
sure he was his apostles went and presented him with two swords and he said that is enough...and it says garment(singular)not an entire wardrobe... then of course we have a literal purse and a literal script but no literal sword and no literal garment...that is an extremely naive/warped view of that verse... So you believe that Jesus taught his diciples to fight with swords? he himself didn't physically do it but he allowed/gave permission for them to do it for self defense yes for spreading the gospel no...
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Post by maryhig on Sept 18, 2020 1:33:05 GMT -5
So you believe that Jesus taught his diciples to fight with swords? he himself didn't physically do it but he allowed/gave permission for them to do it for self defense yes for spreading the gospel no... And he is our example to follow, so if he didn't physically do it then nor should we! And where in the Bible did Jesus tell them to go and fight with swords for self defence? He's not going to teach them to love their enemies and do good to those that hate them, and then in the next breath tell them to take up a sword and fight their enemies and kill those that hate them. Jesus said, those who take the sword shall perish by the sword.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 1:38:58 GMT -5
Holy Moly Wally, you come up with some good ones. Think you have been mixing with Nathan too much. people vote with their feet and i am not seeing a million or more people heading to the great white north or the down unders... We like to keep it a bit exclusive Wally. but we are very Cosmopolitan. Take a listen to this, "We Are Australian". youtu.be/RY_tl-N93AY
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Post by Pragmatic on Sept 18, 2020 1:47:34 GMT -5
We have many wanting to get in, but we don’t let them, except under very strict criteria. And that was before Covid.
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Sept 18, 2020 1:48:46 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 1:48:46 GMT -5
he himself didn't physically do it but he allowed/gave permission for them to do it for self defense yes for spreading the gospel no... And he is our example to follow, so if he didn't physically do it then nor should we! And where in the Bible did Jesus tell them to go and fight with swords for self defence? He's not going to teach them to love their enemies and do good to those that hate them, and then in the next breath tell them to take up a sword and fight their enemies and kill those that hate them. Jesus said, those who take the sword shall perish by the sword. which i understand to mean if the sword is your only solution to EVERY problem yes you will die by the sword....self defense is not EVERY problem your gonna run across... and proof of that is there are MILLIONS of people who have firearms for protection and 99% of them do not die by a firearm at all in fact in the US its less than 1000 per year that die by their own firearm during a confrontation and there are anywhere from 250k to 2 million confrontations/defensive uses per year in the US....was Jesus wrong?
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Post by Pragmatic on Sept 18, 2020 1:50:02 GMT -5
people vote with their feet and i am not seeing a million or more people heading to the great white north or the down unders... We like to keep it a bit exclusive Wally. but we are very Cosmopolitan. Take a listen to this, "We Are Australian". youtu.be/RY_tl-N93AYI could be wrong, but I think that was composed by Bruce Woodley of The Seekers? I recall their Live version some years ago. Goosebumps.
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Post by maryhig on Sept 18, 2020 1:58:06 GMT -5
And he is our example to follow, so if he didn't physically do it then nor should we! And where in the Bible did Jesus tell them to go and fight with swords for self defence? He's not going to teach them to love their enemies and do good to those that hate them, and then in the next breath tell them to take up a sword and fight their enemies and kill those that hate them. Jesus said, those who take the sword shall perish by the sword. which i understand to mean if the sword is your only solution to EVERY problem yes you will die by the sword....self defense is not EVERY problem your gonna run across... and proof of that is there are MILLIONS of people who have firearms for protection and 99% of them do not die by a firearm at all in fact in the US its less than 1000 per year that die by their own firearm during a confrontation and there are anywhere from 250k to 2 million confrontations/defensive uses per year in the US....was Jesus wrong? Was Jesus wrong about what? He wouldn't contradict himself. He's not going to tell us to love our enemies and do good to those that hate us, and then tell us to go and use a sword against others! Just think what the world would be like if we all followed Jesus, there would be no need of weapons at all. But I believe that those who belong to God shouldn't carry weapons but trust in God. By the way, I live in the UK, where the majority of us don't have firearms, and no one is allowed to carry one around. They are only used for hunting etc. Even the majority of our police don't have firearms. We have firearms units. And even though we have crime, we don't have much gun crime, and I don't feel that it's any less safe here than anywhere where the people carry guns.
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Sept 18, 2020 2:02:53 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 2:02:53 GMT -5
which i understand to mean if the sword is your only solution to EVERY problem yes you will die by the sword....self defense is not EVERY problem your gonna run across... and proof of that is there are MILLIONS of people who have firearms for protection and 99% of them do not die by a firearm at all in fact in the US its less than 1000 per year that die by their own firearm during a confrontation and there are anywhere from 250k to 2 million confrontations/defensive uses per year in the US....was Jesus wrong? Was Jesus wrong about what? He wouldn't contradict himself. He's not going to tell us to love our enemies and do good to those that hate us, and then tell us to go and use a sword against others! Just think what the world would be like if we all followed Jesus, there would be no need of weapons at all. But I believe that those who belong to God shouldn't carry weapons but trust in God. By the way, I live in the UK, where the majority of us don't have firearms, and no one is allowed to carry one around. They are only used for hunting etc. Even the majority of our police don't have firearms. We have firearms units. And even though we have crime, we don't have much gun crime, and I don't feel that it's any less safe here than anywhere where the people carry guns. you quoted the verse that Jesus said those that take the sword die by the sword...was he wrong about that? i just gave you a number of examples in the USA where people use a firearm to defend themselves but they do not die from it...was Jesus wrong?
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Sept 18, 2020 2:05:56 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 2:05:56 GMT -5
You are spot on Prags. Bruce composed it in 1987 for the Bicentenary of Australia that was celebrated in 1988. The one I put above is used by the ABC as a program break, catchy short version. But like you love the live version by the Seekers that they performed at the Bicentenary Concert. I guess Aussies never get tied of it, it does help to create a good spirit that unites people of a different race. That has to be a positive thing.
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Post by maryhig on Sept 18, 2020 2:17:02 GMT -5
Was Jesus wrong about what? He wouldn't contradict himself. He's not going to tell us to love our enemies and do good to those that hate us, and then tell us to go and use a sword against others! Just think what the world would be like if we all followed Jesus, there would be no need of weapons at all. But I believe that those who belong to God shouldn't carry weapons but trust in God. By the way, I live in the UK, where the majority of us don't have firearms, and no one is allowed to carry one around. They are only used for hunting etc. Even the majority of our police don't have firearms. We have firearms units. And even though we have crime, we don't have much gun crime, and I don't feel that it's any less safe here than anywhere where the people carry guns. you quoted the verse that Jesus said those that take the sword die by the sword...was he wrong about that? i just gave you a number of examples in the USA where people use a firearm to defend themselves but they do not die from it...was Jesus wrong? Jesus mean't that if you fight by the sword you die by the sword, in other words don't fight with swords. We shouldn't use weapons when we belong to God, we should trust in God.
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Sept 18, 2020 2:26:20 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 2:26:20 GMT -5
you quoted the verse that Jesus said those that take the sword die by the sword...was he wrong about that? i just gave you a number of examples in the USA where people use a firearm to defend themselves but they do not die from it...was Jesus wrong? Jesus mean't that if you fight by the sword you die by the sword, in other words don't fight with swords. We shouldn't use weapons when we belong to God, we should trust in God. okay...i just gave you 250k to 2 million examples per year in the USA of defensive use/fight with their sword/firearm/weapon and 99% of them do not die by that sword/firearm/weapon...was Jesus wrong or did he lie?
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Post by maryhig on Sept 18, 2020 2:32:53 GMT -5
And he is our example to follow, so if he didn't physically do it then nor should we! And where in the Bible did Jesus tell them to go and fight with swords for self defence? He's not going to teach them to love their enemies and do good to those that hate them, and then in the next breath tell them to take up a sword and fight their enemies and kill those that hate them. Jesus said, those who take the sword shall perish by the sword. I’m kind of thinking Mary that was figuratively speaking. I have seen ‘the sword taken up against a fellow Christian here’ and have done my best to fight against that despicable action/ piercing so to speak ..and yes I’m left thinking of the end of that biblical phrase. But you know your bible better than I do. Cheers I believe that no one belonging to Christ should be using weapons against others, when the soldiers asked John the Baptist what they should do, he told them to do violence to no man, and they were soldiers. How much more would that be so for those who belong to God? John didn't fight with swords, neither did Jesus. Jesus said that if his kingdom were of this world, then his servants would fight to deliver him from the Jews, and so his servants didn't fight to free him. Jesus's kingdom is not of this world, so his servants shouldn't be fighting and definitely shouldn't be using weapons because they shouldn't be of this world either. They should be living to please God and caring for others they see in need. Not using violence, but overcoming evil with good.
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Post by maryhig on Sept 18, 2020 2:33:26 GMT -5
Jesus mean't that if you fight by the sword you die by the sword, in other words don't fight with swords. We shouldn't use weapons when we belong to God, we should trust in God. okay...i just gave you 250k to 2 million examples per year in the USA of defensive use/fight with their sword/firearm/weapon and 99% of them do not die by that sword/firearm/weapon...was Jesus wrong or did he lie? What's that got to do with Jesus? He's speaking about fighting brings on more fighting.
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