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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2019 21:50:35 GMT -5
Sixty Minutes in Australia will be airing a program on Channel 9 about the 2x2 Church on Sunday 21 April (Easter Sunday) at around 7pm. It will primarily focus on child sexual abuse and the Church protecting pedophiles and will call out corruption in senior leadership . A number of victims of child sexual abuse within the Church will be on the show. Background information on the Church and some details in relation to one victim who appears and as a result will appear on the program. For those outside Australia, a link will be provided that can be used after the program has gone to air in Australia. This link will be posted next week on this thread. Please pray for victims and that people caught up in the Church would know the true gospel and that on seeing the show it would make them question worker behaviour and teaching. Promotions will start early next week in Australia. Please tell as many of your contacts as possible.
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Post by Dennis J on Apr 12, 2019 22:14:38 GMT -5
Redback, of course I believe you! However, based upon what I had been indoctrinated into from birth, if not before, this is some of the saddest news I have heard of my entire life outside what I have witnessed and experienced personally. A shame and totally disgraceful! In the eighties I warned of this coming, and within a month or so had been forbidden to even attend meetings.
Having suffered so very much, I have not wanted any as victims to experience the same. There is much much more to come. Sad, sad, sad, yet joyous, too, knowing the cork is finally being popped! And not just in your part of the world, neither!
Dennis Jacobsen
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Post by nathan on Apr 12, 2019 22:24:00 GMT -5
Sixty Minutes in Australia will be airing a program on Channel 9 about the 2x2 Church on Sunday 21 April (Easter Sunday) at around 7pm. It will primarily focus on child sexual abuse and the church protecting pedophiles and will call out corruption in senior leadership . A number of victims of child sexual abuse within the church will be on the show. We were asked to provide some background on the church and some details in relation to one victim who appears and as a result will appear on the program. For those outside Australia, we will provide a link that can be used after the program has gone to air in Australia. This link will be posted next week on this thread. Please pray for victims and that people caught up in the church would know the true gospel and that on seeing the show it would make them question worker behaviour and teaching. Promotions will start early next week in Australia. Please tell as many of your contacts as possible.
I hope the whole world of overseers, senior workers, workers will take heed and eliminate CSA among us and the ministry..... and eventually the world too.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Apr 12, 2019 23:38:46 GMT -5
Sixty Minutes in Australia will be airing a program on Channel 9 about the 2x2 Church on Sunday 21 April (Easter Sunday) at around 7pm. It will primarily focus on child sexual abuse and the church protecting pedophiles and will call out corruption in senior leadership . A number of victims of child sexual abuse within the church will be on the show. We were asked to provide some background on the church and some details in relation to one victim who appears and as a result will appear on the program. For those outside Australia, we will provide a link that can be used after the program has gone to air in Australia. This link will be posted next week on this thread. Please pray for victims and that people caught up in the church would know the true gospel and that on seeing the show it would make them question worker behaviour and teaching. Promotions will start early next week in Australia. Please tell as many of your contacts as possible.
I hope the whole world of overseers, senior workers, workers will take heed and eliminate CSA among us and the ministry..... and eventually the world too.
But many of the two by twos will not watch TV. Plus I can almost be sure many will be worker advised not to watch this program as they are enemies of them. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2019 0:04:40 GMT -5
You will find nowadays that even if people do not have a TV they have a computer. That is why online links will be provided for both Australia and for those outside of Australia. Those people who have contributed to the program are not enemies, but very compassionate people who believe in fairness and justice. The workers have been warned for some time that if they failed to listen to victims, and protect perpetrators steps would be taken to overcome the problem.I am indeed sad that it has come to this, as we have many good 2x2 friends and it gives me no pleasure to see hurt inflicted on them. But as Nathan said let us hope that there is change of attitude, and that there is a better way forward.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2019 0:05:42 GMT -5
Thank you for the heads up Redback - it has been on route for decades, not only in Australia, but everywhere else workers have swept CSA under their filthy carpet. Australia has led the way however, first with its Royal Commission, now 60 minutes. And that might get the media everywhere in stitches to get aboard the corruption story of the as yet little known 2x2 church.
As far as better things are concerned, the best message workers ever preached was "Read your Bible," even to the exclusion of all kinds of entertainments under that guise. And I for one do believe that a few 2x2s have discovered the real gospel by reading their Bibles - and if not already, will soon know that while workers have briefly mentioned the death of Christ for our sins on rare occasion, the gospel workers have preached throughout their short history has been "another gospel" of homeless ministry and meetings in the home. Workers should be shivering in their boots because Gal. 1 clearly curses them to hell for preaching "another gospel," now they are likely going to lose their meal tickets along that very road. They could repent, turn to the real Jesus and be saved - however. But their track record of doing any such thing in response to warnings of that road from exited 2x2s is bleak if at all existent.
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Post by Scott Ross on Apr 13, 2019 1:32:50 GMT -5
This has been on the works for some time now. Was wondering when they might be airing this. -----Original Message----- From: Sparkes, Laura To: admin <admin@wingsfortruth.info> Sent: Thu, Jun 28, 2018 12:36 am Subject: 60 Minutes Hello, My name is Laura Sparkes and I’m a producer on 60 Minutes. I understand your group consists of some former members of the Two by Two church also known as Friends and Workers? I have been investigating a story regarding a man charged with sexual abuse of minors in Dubbo. He is a member of the Two by Two church. Three victims have agreed to speak to me about what happened and I am now researching further afield to find other examples. I have read with interest about the case of another Two by Two member, Chris Chandler, who pleaded guilty to 8 charges of child sexual abuse back in 2014 but I believe there are more. I was wondering who I might be able to speak to confidentially about the story I’m researching. My mobile is my best form of contact or email. I look forward to hearing from someone. Laura Sparkes Producer On 30 Jun 2018, at 8:37 am, "bescottross@aol.com" <bescottross@aol.com> wrote: Hi Laura, My name is Scott Ross. I am the Administrator of WINGS, where I am thinking that you found the admin email address. There are other names out there of people convicted in your part of the world. One fairly well known case was that of Ernie Barry. We posted this from the officer conducting the investigation into Chris Chandler: wingsbts.proboards.com/thread/192/const-darren-eldridge-letter-friendsIf you haven't been on our Breaking the Silence board, that link should take you there. Quite a bit of info, although you may have to wade through several posts. This was an article in "The Age" concerning Chris Chandler: www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/former-sect-leader-pleads-guilty-to-child-sex-charges-20140320-3562h.htmlThis was our submission to the Victorian Parliament: www.parliament.vic.gov.au/images/stories/committees/fcdc/inquiries/57th/Child_Abuse_Inquiry/Submissions/WINGS.pdf This is our website: wingsfortruth.info/That has a link to some of those who have been convicted: wingsfortruth.info/breaking-the-silence-2/convicted-csa-offenders/I am also one of the moderators on the Truth Message Board, which also has some info there. The main board probably wouldn't be of much interest to you, as it is mainly concerned with people who argue back and forth about issues concerning the church, but get seriously off track. There is a sub-board there with posts concerning WINGS: professing.proboards.com/board/18/wings-child-abuse-websiteAs I mentioned, I am the Admin for our WINGS group. However, I reside in Washington State in the USA. I will contact members in your area who may be able to better respond to you. I am sorry this is a bit disjointed, or a bit sloppy. In kind of a rush here at the moment, and know that with more time I would be able to find more info which could help you with your investigation/reporting. For a historical perspective of the Truth Fellowship (or whichever name a person wishes to use) here is a link to the site that has the most accurate and historical information. The site is managed by Cherie Kropp, who has spent years collecting information. She, like myself, is a former member. I am sure that Cherie would be willing to assist you as well. www.tellingthetruth.info/home/aboutttt.phpI must add that I am very encouraged that you might be willing to do a segment into this issue. I think it would be good for the church to have these issues discussed about them publicly. There are many who would prefer to hide the sins of the workers (ministers). Since it is a relatively small church, it doesn't get much attention. I should also add that I am not against the church. I have many relatives who are members, and also a few who are, or have been 'workers'. Also, I am not sure if you are just looking for info concerning Australia, or worldwide. Thank you for contacting me, and I would be more than willing to help you further with any questions. Wow thank you Scott. Sorry I didn’t realise you were in the US. I have found most of the information already on wings. I’ll be in contact if I have any more questions. I’m trying to track down victims of Ernie Barry and Chris chandler. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2019 2:58:25 GMT -5
its a shame it had to come to this. but everything happens for a reason i guess...  |
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Post by fixit on Apr 13, 2019 4:49:51 GMT -5
It's not a bad thing.
The abuse of children, and the coverup of abuse, is a great evil and shouldn't be once named amongst godly people.
The fellowship will be stronger as a result of exposure to the light.
(NLT) John 3:20 All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed.
21 But those who do what is right come to the light so others can see that they are doing what God wants.
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Post by grieving on Apr 13, 2019 5:11:04 GMT -5
Yes, there is sadness that it has come to this. It's sad when a fellowship that has meant a lot to many people over many years, sinks unnecessarily into a situation like this.
However when a number of friends and workers (including senior ones) have warned the Australasian overseers repeatedly over 10 plus years of issues that have needed addressing, but in response they have refused to put 'truth' as their number one priority, then it is hardly surprising that things have evolved to where they now stand.
Let's hope this ultimately leads to a right response going forward. I do hope that at Special Meetings in a few months time there is no fresh attempt to portray that 'the kingdom is on track'. A time of repentance, humility, with an open admission of error would be much more fitting and helpful.
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Post by sauerkraut on Apr 13, 2019 5:43:59 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2019 11:04:06 GMT -5
This issue came up in court in Canada (Alberta) in 1999 within a child custody trial. In that trial a witness for the prosecution testified to having been sexually abused by workers. But at that time, there were few documented cases of CSA and that highest court awarded the full custody of two little girls to the self-confessed 2x2 mother, even though she was mother of only one of the two. Their biological father was provided access to his children. As far as the religious aspect was concerned, that court ruled that while the children were in the mother's custody, she decided where and what religion they would be exposed to, and when in the father's hands, he decided what religion they were exposed to – with not interference from either mother or father. And similar cases in those years received court decisions that failed to remove children from what has become known through many convictions since to be pervasive within the 2x2 church. These facts were aired by VOT and VIA online for a decade – here is link to VIA's page on Child Abuse. drive.google.com/file/d/1kp9gMuLYrM6d2hPGV1n3-QV4Y4HMpK60/view?usp=sharing Here's another testimony of a former 2x2 of prominence, drive.google.com/file/d/1-KakF9axQxqTLiaZ7KkuBdqCzwexe9HD/view?usp=sharing “In 1950 I received a real shockat Special Meeting time. I was sexually abused by Jim Grant, a visiting worker ....” |
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Post by openingact34 on Apr 13, 2019 12:37:11 GMT -5
Those hoping for a television program to change the 2x2 attitudes are going to be sorely disappointed.
The folks remaining in the sect at this point are pretty calloused and unconcerned. This will be written of as persecution or lies.
What will change is that the workers are about to get a whole lot of new outside "interest" at gospel meetings.
The Westboro Baptist Church started of as basically just the Phelps family for decades. Widespread, intense media coverage actually attracted a number of new members from around the world.
Coverage of 2x2 CSA scandal is likely to lead new souls to the Truth. Either predators eyeing the fertile hunting grounds, or more fanatics willing to overlook the abuse to join the true, original New Testament church that Jesus founded.
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Post by snow on Apr 13, 2019 13:37:28 GMT -5
Those hoping for a television program to change the 2x2 attitudes are going to be sorely disappointed. The folks remaining in the sect at this point are pretty calloused and unconcerned. This will be written of as persecution or lies. What will change is that the workers are about to get a whole lot of new outside "interest" at gospel meetings. The Westboro Baptist Church started of as basically just the Phelps family for decades. Widespread, intense media coverage actually attracted a number of new members from around the world. Coverage of 2x2 CSA scandal is likely to lead new souls to the Truth. Either predators eyeing the fertile hunting grounds, or more fanatics willing to overlook the abuse to join the true, original New Testament church that Jesus founded. Unfortunately I'm afraid of just that happening. People being attracted to the 2x2's because they know it's leaders won't do anything. I sure hope we're wrong about that. Maybe the workers will finally realize they can't protect CSA in the church, no matter who it is. It's not just the 2x2 church that does this though. The RCC attracts CSA because of their history of protecting them. I imagine all churches attract them because they are less likely to be exposed. Does anyone know when that 60 minutes will be aired in Canada or even if it will be aired here? We can't usually access stuff from Australia on line. Some but not all. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2019 15:01:21 GMT -5
Snow, the producer of the show will be contacted to see if an online link can be provided for people overseas. A lot of the time TV stations post some items on You Tube. Rest assured every effort will be made for all to see it. You will note in Scott Ross's post above Laura Sparkes the producer of 60 Minutes here in Australia appreciates the help she has received from Scott and others. I have no doubt she will want the World to see it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2019 15:56:27 GMT -5
Yes, there is sadness that it has come to this. It's sad when a fellowship that has meant a lot to many people over many years, sinks unnecessarily into a situation like this. However when a number of friends and workers (including senior ones) have warned the Australasian overseers repeatedly over 10 plus years of issues that have needed addressing, but in response they have refused to put 'truth' as their number one priority, then it is hardly surprising that things have evolved to where they now stand. Let's hope this ultimately leads to a right response going forward. I do hope that at Special Meetings in a few months time there is no fresh attempt to portray that 'the kingdom is on track'. A time of repentance, humility, with an open admission of error would be much more fitting and helpful. Grieving, thank you for that post, very well said. I know the people who have put so much time and effort into this are not enemies of 2x2's. It is not 2x2 bashing for the sake of it. They like me have Family and Friends in the Church and they love them dearly. As you say an open admission of error and a desire to right the wrongs of the past, is what is required by the Leaders within the Church. My own thoughts are that better use should be made of Elders including Woman to establish a support network for victims, not only for CSA, but all types of problems, mental, drugs, alcohol, age, etc. Let us hope that those in charge come to the conclusion that this aspect has been neglected in the past and take steps to ensure it is handled better in the future. And one would hope that there will be more transparency, so as the World will know they have received the message loud and clear. |
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 13, 2019 15:58:02 GMT -5
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 13, 2019 19:36:15 GMT -5
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Post by sharingtheriches on Apr 13, 2019 20:07:15 GMT -5
It's not a bad thing. The abuse of children, and the coverup of abuse, is a great evil and shouldn't be once named amongst godly people. The fellowship will be stronger as a result of exposure to the light. (NLT) John 3:20 All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed.
21 But those who do what is right come to the light so others can see that they are doing what God wants.If it truly was the “Jesus way, do you think that such would be found amongst them? |
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Post by nathan on Apr 13, 2019 20:39:47 GMT -5
Daniel used to be a regular poster on TMB. Wow! that was quite interesting to read many of his posts. He talked about the workers didn't like him to have worship meeting in their home.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2019 21:13:35 GMT -5
It's not a bad thing. The abuse of children, and the coverup of abuse, is a great evil and shouldn't be once named amongst godly people. The fellowship will be stronger as a result of exposure to the light. (NLT) John 3:20 All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed.
21 But those who do what is right come to the light so others can see that they are doing what God wants.If it truly was the “Jesus way, do you think that such would be found amongst them? ever hear that were all sinners? |
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Post by Dennis J on Apr 13, 2019 21:28:59 GMT -5
An arrow missing the target was known as a sinner, if my instruction in that is remembered correctly, never an arrow shot 180 degrees in the opposite direction.
Yes, I AM a sinner, still missing my target of Yahu’shuah and His righteousness. Still, I aim at that every minute of every hour of every day of every week of every month of every year of life, Smile even more so as I near life’s end.
Don’t ever recall aiming in the opposite direction, while dodging judgment by declaring myself a confessed sinner! How about you?
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Post by janj on Apr 13, 2019 23:18:39 GMT -5
Those hoping for a television program to change the 2x2 attitudes are going to be sorely disappointed. The folks remaining in the sect at this point are pretty calloused and unconcerned. This will be written of as persecution or lies. What will change is that the workers are about to get a whole lot of new outside "interest" at gospel meetings. The Westboro Baptist Church started of as basically just the Phelps family for decades. Widespread, intense media coverage actually attracted a number of new members from around the world. Coverage of 2x2 CSA scandal is likely to lead new souls to the Truth. Either predators eyeing the fertile hunting grounds, or more fanatics willing to overlook the abuse to join the true, original New Testament church that Jesus founded. I'm not so sure about not changing attitudes.I think that's already happened. Why was Graham Snow brought into Australia,? Someone told me it was to deal with the CSA issues that the current overseers wouldn't.There is a new generation of educated prepared-to-ask-questions 2x2s and they want things sorted. I think this 60 Minutes programme is a great thing -it will force change. |
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Post by nathan on Apr 13, 2019 23:26:19 GMT -5
Those hoping for a television program to change the 2x2 attitudes are going to be sorely disappointed. The folks remaining in the sect at this point are pretty calloused and unconcerned. This will be written of as persecution or lies. What will change is that the workers are about to get a whole lot of new outside "interest" at gospel meetings. The Westboro Baptist Church started of as basically just the Phelps family for decades. Widespread, intense media coverage actually attracted a number of new members from around the world. Coverage of 2x2 CSA scandal is likely to lead new souls to the Truth. Either predators eyeing the fertile hunting grounds, or more fanatics willing to overlook the abuse to join the true, original New Testament church that Jesus founded. I'm not so sure about not changing attitudes.I think that's already happened. Why was Graham Snow brought into Australia,? Someone told me it was to deal with the CSA issues that the current overseers wouldn't.There is a new generation of educated prepared-to-ask-questions 2x2s and they want things sorted. I think this 60 Minutes programme is a great thing -it will force change.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 13, 2019 23:46:49 GMT -5
Those hoping for a television program to change the 2x2 attitudes are going to be sorely disappointed. The folks remaining in the sect at this point are pretty calloused and unconcerned. This will be written of as persecution or lies. What will change is that the workers are about to get a whole lot of new outside "interest" at gospel meetings. The Westboro Baptist Church started of as basically just the Phelps family for decades. Widespread, intense media coverage actually attracted a number of new members from around the world. Coverage of 2x2 CSA scandal is likely to lead new souls to the Truth. Either predators eyeing the fertile hunting grounds, or more fanatics willing to overlook the abuse to join the true, original New Testament church that Jesus founded. I'm not so sure about not changing attitudes.I think that's already happened. Why was Graham Snow brought into Australia,? Someone told me it was to deal with the CSA issues that the current overseers wouldn't.There is a new generation of educated prepared-to-ask-questions 2x2s and they want things sorted. I think this 60 Minutes programme is a great thing -it will force change. If they were educated they would not be going to a church. What an oxymoron. |
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Post by tuesday on Apr 13, 2019 23:53:22 GMT -5
I'm not so sure about not changing attitudes.I think that's already happened. Why was Graham Snow brought into Australia,? Someone told me it was to deal with the CSA issues that the current overseers wouldn't.There is a new generation of educated prepared-to-ask-questions 2x2s and they want things sorted. I think this 60 Minutes programme is a great thing -it will force change. If they were educated they would not be going to a church. What an oxymoron. Education and church attendance are not mutually exclusive. I think attitudes are already changing, slowly. |
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 14, 2019 0:06:47 GMT -5
If they were educated they would not be going to a church. What an oxymoron. Education and church attendance are not mutually exclusive. I think attitudes are already changing, slowly. They ought to be otherwise that is an insult to education. |
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 14, 2019 0:10:47 GMT -5
Daniel used to be a regular poster on TMB. Wow! that was quite interesting to read many of his posts. He talked about the workers didn't like him to have worship meeting in their home. Do you think it was the workers who tipped off the law about them?  |
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