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Post by sharingtheriches on Apr 14, 2019 0:14:28 GMT -5
If it truly was the “Jesus way, do you think that such would be found amongst them? ever hear that were all sinners? The Bible says to obey the laws of the land. Perhaps the difference is sinners vs. criminals? |
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Post by sharingtheriches on Apr 14, 2019 0:20:11 GMT -5
Those hoping for a television program to change the 2x2 attitudes are going to be sorely disappointed. The folks remaining in the sect at this point are pretty calloused and unconcerned. This will be written of as persecution or lies. What will change is that the workers are about to get a whole lot of new outside "interest" at gospel meetings. The Westboro Baptist Church started of as basically just the Phelps family for decades. Widespread, intense media coverage actually attracted a number of new members from around the world. Coverage of 2x2 CSA scandal is likely to lead new souls to the Truth. Either predators eyeing the fertile hunting grounds, or more fanatics willing to overlook the abuse to join the true, original New Testament church that Jesus founded. I'm not so sure about not changing attitudes.I think that's already happened. Why was Graham Snow brought into Australia,? Someone told me it was to deal with the CSA issues that the current overseers wouldn't.There is a new generation of educated prepared-to-ask-questions 2x2s and they want things sorted. I think this 60 Minutes programme is a great thing -it will force change. I shared the announcement of the 60 Minute documentary and got the blessing of my life. A sarcastic, venomous “ Makes you happy doesn’t it!” I tried reasoning with this dyed-in-the two by two that it wasn’t about persecution at all. Doubt I convinced them! |
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Post by nathan on Apr 14, 2019 0:26:54 GMT -5
Daniel used to be a regular poster on TMB. Wow! that was quite interesting to read many of his posts. He talked about the workers didn't like him to have worship meeting in their home. Do you think it was the workers who tipped off the law about them?  |
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 14, 2019 0:30:21 GMT -5
Do you think it was the workers who tipped off the law about them? The workers could be prosecuted for not reporting them. |
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Post by nathan on Apr 14, 2019 0:46:02 GMT -5
I don't know the workers should have.... I believe I read Daniel's children were drinking underage... and some people reported them, and the police came to the house and investigate what is going on. The workers could be prosecuted for not reporting them. |
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 14, 2019 0:46:49 GMT -5
The workers could be prosecuted for not reporting them. What makes you think I want to know? |
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Post by nathan on Apr 14, 2019 0:47:54 GMT -5
You can try... and find out, Bob and come back tell us about it. Get it on the US 60 min. What makes you think I want to know? |
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 14, 2019 0:54:31 GMT -5
What makes you think I want to know? You said the workers wouldn't need to report those people. I was telling you that they could be prosecuted for not reporting. I didn't want to know anything -- I was just telling you something true. Do you have something you want to tell me? |
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Post by nathan on Apr 14, 2019 9:13:01 GMT -5
Then why did you post on this topic? If you don't want to know. You said the workers wouldn't need to report those people. I was telling you that they could be prosecuted for not reporting. I didn't want to know anything -- I was just telling you something true. Do you have something you want to tell me?
Most workers in USA KNOW about reporting CSA cases to the authority! they heard about the Overseer JF and his companion almost go to jail for NOT reporting a CSA worker on his staff awhile back. |
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 14, 2019 16:12:31 GMT -5
You said the workers wouldn't need to report those people. I was telling you that they could be prosecuted for not reporting. I didn't want to know anything -- I was just telling you something true. Do you have something you want to tell me? Scroll up about 7 messages and you'll read what you wrote about the workers reporting. Of course, if you weren't replying to my post in that message, Lord only know what you meant. |
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Post by howitis on Apr 14, 2019 17:10:30 GMT -5
I say "bring it on".... Much will be uncovered, much will be hidden. Some of the journalistic practices will be despised, as I know they've already been discussed by many, both inside and out. One particular person/family will later have to reveal the rest of the story, further journalistic opportunity, not so pretty either. A story is a story after all and journalists have a job to do.
Whether people leave or join the church (as predicted by some), each will have their own reasoning.
In the end, Christians believe, the supreme power is God, He gets the final say.
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Post by benar on Apr 14, 2019 17:28:41 GMT -5
You said the workers wouldn't need to report those people. I was telling you that they could be prosecuted for not reporting. I didn't want to know anything -- I was just telling you something true. Do you have something you want to tell me?
Most workers in USA KNOW about reporting CSA cases to the authority! they heard about the Overseer JF and his companion almost go to jail for NOT reporting a CSA worker on his staff awhile back.Why does this sort of abuse need to be handled by human authorities? Why doesn't God step in and fix this now, rather than waiting until the perpetrators die before punishing them? For that matter, why does God let this happen in the first place? If I was a god, I would stop this sort of thing before it started. The fact that your god doesn't suggests he's either impotent or evil. Take your pick. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2019 17:32:00 GMT -5
Where did I say the workers would and should NOT need to report Daniel abuses to the children? I say if the workers KNEW about it they must report to the authority. I believe the authority might talk to the workers and the friends about Daniel and his wife situation for sure.
Most workers in USA KNOW about reporting CSA cases to the authority! they heard about the Overseer JF and his companion almost go to jail for NOT reporting a CSA worker on his staff awhile back. Why does this sort of abuse need to be handled by human authorities? Why doesn't God step in and fix this now, rather than waiting until the perpetrators die before punishing them? For that matter, why does God let this happen in the first place? If I was a god, I would stop this sort of thing before it started. The fact that your god doesn't suggests he's either impotent or evil. Take your pick. God generally gives everyone multiple chances to repent of whatever evil they've done before they die... |
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Post by joanna on Apr 14, 2019 17:52:13 GMT -5
If the investigative journalist is focusing on this specific instance of CSA with the intention to honestly expose the abuse so as to prevent it, then this 60 minutes presentation should be welcomed.
Referring to god in this context is irrational as the problem of suffering is one which absolutely negates the existence of an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent and benevolent deity.
The fact children of fervently religious families have been horribly abused should prompt the thinking person to question why they continue to believe in an absent god.
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Post by benar on Apr 14, 2019 20:38:26 GMT -5
Why does this sort of abuse need to be handled by human authorities? Why doesn't God step in and fix this now, rather than waiting until the perpetrators die before punishing them? For that matter, why does God let this happen in the first place? If I was a god, I would stop this sort of thing before it started. The fact that your god doesn't suggests he's either impotent or evil. Take your pick. God generally gives everyone multiple chances to repent of whatever evil they've done before they die... Isn't that closing the door after the horse has bolted? Where is the concern for the victim in this scenario? Would it not be kinder to prevent this sort of thing in the first place? Again, if Yahweh were to exist, he would be either impotent or evil. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2019 20:52:43 GMT -5
God generally gives everyone multiple chances to repent of whatever evil they've done before they die... Isn't that closing the door after the horse has bolted? Where is the concern for the victim in this scenario? Would it not be kinder to prevent this sort of thing in the first place? Again, if Yahweh were to exist, he would be either impotent or evil. everyone is responsible for their own actions and there are lessons to be learned.... |
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Post by benar on Apr 14, 2019 21:10:56 GMT -5
Isn't that closing the door after the horse has bolted? Where is the concern for the victim in this scenario? Would it not be kinder to prevent this sort of thing in the first place? Again, if Yahweh were to exist, he would be either impotent or evil. everyone is responsible for their own actions and there are lessons to be learned.... So what you're saying is this world looks exactly like it would if god was simply imaginary? |
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 14, 2019 21:59:16 GMT -5
Isn't that closing the door after the horse has bolted? Where is the concern for the victim in this scenario? Would it not be kinder to prevent this sort of thing in the first place? Again, if Yahweh were to exist, he would be either impotent or evil. everyone is responsible for their own actions and there are lessons to be learned.... Who cares about the offender. So how about protection for the children? You can't protect the children after the perpetrator learns his lesson. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2019 22:05:29 GMT -5
everyone is responsible for their own actions and there are lessons to be learned.... So what you're saying is this world looks exactly like it would if god was simply imaginary? nope... |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2019 22:07:36 GMT -5
everyone is responsible for their own actions and there are lessons to be learned.... Who cares about the offender. So how about protection for the children? You can't protect the children after the perpetrator learns his lesson. God never promised a rose garden bob... |
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Post by benar on Apr 15, 2019 4:34:54 GMT -5
Isn't that closing the door after the horse has bolted? Where is the concern for the victim in this scenario? Would it not be kinder to prevent this sort of thing in the first place? Again, if Yahweh were to exist, he would be either impotent or evil. everyone is responsible for their own actions and there are lessons to be learned.... Wally, something about this just doesn't sit well with me. How can a god be considered loving if it sits by and does nothing when a child is abused? It's supposed to be omnipotent - certainly capable of preventing child rape. It's supposed to be omnipresent and omniscient, so has no excuse that it wasn't aware of what was going on. The best it can do is watch as it goes down and say "When you're done, I have a special place for you to be punished, but not just now; I'll let you live out your days doing whatever you like until then." Sure, you can say everyone is responsible for their own actions; I agree with that, but you can't pass God's inaction off as allowing free will. Where is the free will of the child/victim? Tracey Harris says something like "If I had the power to stop a child rapist I would. That's the difference between me and your god". It's scenarios like this that prove Yahweh is imaginary - the logical inconsistency between omnipotency and omnibenevolence with what we see in reality. I don't think for a minute anyone on this board would stand by and let a child be abused if they had the power to do something about it. That shows that our morals supersede that of Yahweh and are not derived from him; and if there was a god who let these things happen it would be absolutely unworthy of worship. |
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Post by nathan on Apr 15, 2019 8:00:51 GMT -5
everyone is responsible for their own actions and there are lessons to be learned.... Wally, something about this just doesn't sit well with me. How can a god be considered loving if it sits by and does nothing when a child is abused? It's supposed to be omnipotent - certainly capable of preventing child rape. It's supposed to be omnipresent and omniscient, so has no excuse that it wasn't aware of what was going on. The best it can do is watch as it goes down and say "When you're done, I have a special place for you to be punished, but not just now; I'll let you live out your days doing whatever you like until then." Sure, you can say everyone is responsible for their own actions; I agree with that, but you can't pass God's inaction off as allowing free will. Where is the free will of the child/victim? Tracey Harris says something like "If I had the power to stop a child rapist I would. That's the difference between me and your god". It's scenarios like this that prove Yahweh is imaginary - the logical inconsistency between omnipotency and omnibenevolence with what we see in reality. I don't think for a minute anyone on this board would stand by and let a child be abused if they had the power to do something about it. That shows that our morals supersede that of Yahweh and are not derived from him; and if there was a god who let these things happen it would be absolutely unworthy of worship.
Some of the friends, a worker/my older companion, and myself tried to WARN and Educate the friends and workers about CSA happening in our fellowship and ministry in the year 2000-2016 with my 2x2 website and my 2x2 message board.
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Post by Johnny DeRaad on Apr 15, 2019 8:31:51 GMT -5
Education and church attendance are not mutually exclusive. I think attitudes are already changing, slowly. They ought to be otherwise that is an insult to education. plenty of educated idiots out there that prove the invalidity of your statement. . ..and even educated folks can have a relationship with the Father..He doesn't care how smart or dumb you are at all. . .I'm some sort of proof of that on the latter side. ... many nites I go to sleep wondering why? ..but I'm glad He called my name. ... . ..by the way.. . church attendance has nothing to do with having a relationship with the Father.. |
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Post by Johnny DeRaad on Apr 15, 2019 8:35:12 GMT -5
...oh. . and I was about to get all offended by Scott saying how everyone on the main board just wants to argue and get all off track of the subject being discussed. . . .but then I continued to read. .
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2019 10:07:56 GMT -5
snow -
"... People being attracted to the 2x2's because they know it's leaders won't do anything. I sure hope we're wrong about that. "
The victims who have been brave enough to speak out publicly over the last four decades, and the lack of investigation by authorities with specific regard to the 2x2 group, until a few years ago with the Royal Commission in Australia, a scratch of the surface of convictions of workers and overseers in recent decades (with padded sentences in some cases) etc., the road to wide public exposure of CSA in the 2x2 group may well have attracted some pedophiles to the education-free, examination-free and relatively penal-free 2x2 ministry in which workers are supreme authorities, live in members' homes free of charge (where children reside) and where most members (parents) revere workers as God's representatives incapable of evil such as CSA . (sorry for the long sentence)
It is not as if the Courts did not have any victim-testimony on which to base investigations upon - as shown already a documented case in point in Alberta in January of 1999 that the court did nothing with.
It seems to me that the 60 Minutes program is LONG overdue (since the issue continued unabated by the law), and but the tip of the iceberg that may result in wide public view all across this planet that might force the authorities to CARE FOR THE VICTIMS for a change.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2019 10:09:23 GMT -5
everyone is responsible for their own actions and there are lessons to be learned.... Wally, something about this just doesn't sit well with me. How can a god be considered loving if it sits by and does nothing when a child is abused? It's supposed to be omnipotent - certainly capable of preventing child rape. It's supposed to be omnipresent and omniscient, so has no excuse that it wasn't aware of what was going on. The best it can do is watch as it goes down and say "When you're done, I have a special place for you to be punished, but not just now; I'll let you live out your days doing whatever you like until then." Sure, you can say everyone is responsible for their own actions; I agree with that, but you can't pass God's inaction off as allowing free will. Where is the free will of the child/victim? Tracey Harris says something like "If I had the power to stop a child rapist I would. That's the difference between me and your god". It's scenarios like this that prove Yahweh is imaginary - the logical inconsistency between omnipotency and omnibenevolence with what we see in reality. I don't think for a minute anyone on this board would stand by and let a child be abused if they had the power to do something about it. That shows that our morals supersede that of Yahweh and are not derived from him; and if there was a god who let these things happen it would be absolutely unworthy of worship. thats because you like me are limited in understanding of what the bigger picture is... |
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Post by openingact34 on Apr 15, 2019 11:36:53 GMT -5
It's scenarios like this that prove Yahweh is imaginary - the logical inconsistency between omnipotency and omnibenevolence with what we see in reality. I don't think for a minute anyone on this board would stand by and let a child be abused if they had the power to do something about it. That shows that our morals supersede that of Yahweh and are not derived from him; and if there was a god who let these things happen it would be absolutely unworthy of worship. Every dictator claims their own benevolence and greatness. This doesn't disprove God; it simply reveals the nature of God. The closer someone is to the Lord, the more they enable and excuse unspeakable acts against children. This has been the case throughout history. Within the Truth, it is the senior-most overseers who choose to look the other way, or move a predator around, helping him avoid prosecution. These eldest and wisest brothers are the ones closest to God who spend their lives deep in prayer. They have received detailed guidance from God about all kinds of minute details guiding every aspect of the friends' lives including clothing colors, skirt lengths, hairstyles, permissible electronics, acceptable careers, what workers to pair up and where to send them, who to baptize and who to refuse. We can be sure that they are praying earnestly about every report of CSA, and must be receiving instructions directly from God to cover it up. In the Bible, we think of Moses as a counterpart to the overseers, with a similar close relationship to God. Moses appeared at the Transfiguration with Jesus and is the only one to see God (or his rear end anyways). Numbers 31:17-18 gives us a beautiful picture of God's thoughts and guidance being expressed by Moses: "Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." It is the outsiders, the new babes in Christ, the exes, and sometimes the younger and immature workers who agitate against CSA. Those with a deeper understanding and walk with God are unconcerned. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2019 12:12:49 GMT -5
"These eldest and wisest brothers are the ones closest to God who spend their lives deep in prayer." Dream on with your typical 2x2 jargon that has LONG been shown false from its root up. The problem with 2x2s and the like of the posts such as you quoted is that 2x2s ASSUME to know, but do not know the Biblical God, and the other just off-hand denies His existance, also not knowing the Biblical God, by suppressing the knowledge of God's existance built ito every human being by God. God is acting in real time against CSA within your very false "Truth." The Royal Commission is one evidence, the 60 Minutes episode will be the next. And with "the Truth's" "underground" existence for over 100 years shattered widely in the press, so far just in Australia, I do think you will see yet further worldwide Church action against the 2x2 false "Truth" such as this, in which the Biblical God is featured, Cooneyites - David Legge www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0roC35Mdow52:00 |
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