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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 29, 2015 3:10:42 GMT -5
Thank you for your post Maryhig, sorry for all that you have been through, you have summed it up exactly "Unless you have lived it you have no right to judge". Very true words.... thank you  |
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Post by maryhig on Apr 29, 2015 3:26:53 GMT -5
Thank you for your post Maryhig, sorry for all that you have been through, you have summed it up exactly "Unless you have lived it you have no right to judge". Very true words.... thank you You know what, I haven't told many people in my life these things, I've hidden it from many people. And I wouldn't have said anything on here except I can't believe some of the self righteous judgements being handed out on people! I think some here need to look in their own hearts before they judge others! Matthew 7 Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. |
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Post by maryhig on Apr 29, 2015 3:42:19 GMT -5
Quote - 'Is it better for children to live with an alcoholic father than divorce?" That's a desperately difficult issue.
Many marriage counselors and psychiatrists say
that a bad home is better than no home. But again,
there's lots of context involved.
Say that I have no idea of some social issue is not
correct. I am saying that often the cure (for society)
is worse than the condition.A bad home is better than no home! Are you serious? You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about! A happy home is more important than an living with an abusive parent! Or am I reading this wrong? Maybe that's not how you meant it? |
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Post by magpie on Apr 29, 2015 4:55:49 GMT -5
"Bert", no!!,as a kid to early teens 1940/50s ol'Fidler Jack sat in our meetings,not allowed to take communion or speak...every Sunday hell. Parents knew why he was kicked out of preaching but NEVER once appeared to seperate/protect us from him (well continual criminal acts, we were to scared to mention, proved they didnt,as well as the one who retired 45 years later). I know of many (recently deceased Victorian elder and his brother) and the other one who caught me preached on. No most are, unless brought to authorities attention, kept in their place on the workers list. We used as teens get hold of that list and voiced discust or relief as to who had been billeted to our area,especially if mums and dads were royal enough to have them stay in their homes.This also went for sister workers as well. This is why we scream out so loud please watch your children in every situation if workers are present.. "This is our little secret",#$%^&* not any more. They are still a majority or why dont those who are of natural genetics challenge the sexual deviants amongst them,FEAR OR KINDRED?  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2015 5:18:03 GMT -5
Thank you for your post Maryhig, sorry for all that you have been through, you have summed it up exactly "Unless you have lived it you have no right to judge". Very true words.... thank you You know what, I haven't told many people in my life these things, I've hidden it from many people. And I wouldn't have said anything on here except I can't believe some of the self righteous judgements being handed out on people! I think some here need to look in their own hearts before they judge others! Matthew 7 Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. The kind of behaviour you refer to I like to call it an "ostrich mentality" bury your head in the sands and pretend it is not hapening- it has gone away- never happened to anyone. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2015 7:46:34 GMT -5
Exes is NOT an organized group. All that term means is former association with the Truth Fellowship meetings. That's all. There is no leader, organization or creed. I think you are smart enough to know that, Bert. These perverts continued MANY years in the meetings/work so the worker leadership cannot downplay the problem as much as they may want to. I think there needs to be some data base shared between workers of those who have been charges with CSA in the work, meetings, former members or relatives to friends. There needs to be no second victims.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2015 7:52:12 GMT -5
Magpie, do former 2x2 pedophiles become exes?
***
In Australia they get re-baptized!
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Post by applesandbacon on Apr 29, 2015 8:22:41 GMT -5
Stop and think @wally. Why do you think a person addicted to heroin pays $150 – $200 per day to support their habit? Why do you think many need to turn to crime to raise that amount of money? If heroin was legal perhaps the cost would come down. To less than $1 per day. No more drug wars. Drastic reduction in over doses. Not sure what the downside would be. that would be a druggie's paradise, the downside would be that every dog and his bone would be in on it Do you think so? Do you reckon it's the cost that's keeping people like you and me off drugs? If heroin were free, that wouldn't persuade me to take it. |
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Post by emy on Apr 29, 2015 14:57:15 GMT -5
I could be wrong, but it seems to me that Bert is saying if cases of abortion were limited to rape, incest or similar conditions, and cases of divorce were limited to physical spouse abuse society might be more stable for many and especially children. Emy, so are you saying if divorce was limited to physical spouse abuse, children would have a more stable home ? Lets think about that, so if a person is cheating on their partner with prostitutes and other people does that have any effect on the children ? If a person is an alcoholic and will not get help, does that have any effect on the children ? How do you propose to limit divorce to physical abuse? There seems to be this idea amongst people that divorce is easy, that a couple just wake up one morning and say lets get divorced ! Don't you think some people do think of their children & that is why they divorce ! Of course, nearly all people think of their children when they consider divorce. I don't propose to limit divorce to any cause. Divorce has gone so far beyond that it isn't even worth spending time thinking about it. Wouldn't you agree that there are plenty of divorces that disturb a child's life more than a somewhat troubled home did? So many people make little effort to reconcile. It's a "me" generation. Do you have 'no-fault' divorce where you live? |
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 29, 2015 19:52:50 GMT -5
Emy, do you personally know what its like to live with an alcoholic? Do you know what its like as a child to witness physical abuse ? Sure there maybe some cases that divorce may disturb a child's live more than a "troubled home" but it depends what you clarify as a "troubled home" ? If parents are arguing all the time, drunk or physically abusing their spouse is that a good environment for children?
One person cannot make a marriage work it takes both parties. What really annoys me is statements like "people make little effort to reconcile", unless you personally are in the situation you do not know how you would re-act. How do you reconcile with an alcoholic who will not get help ? How do you reconcile with a person if they don't want to reconcile ? Yes there is no-fault divorce in Australia, but do you really think people just decide overnight that they want to get divorced ? It is the generalisation of these things from people that have never been in the situation that really annoy me.
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Post by rational on Apr 29, 2015 20:04:51 GMT -5
Stop and think @wally. Why do you think a person addicted to heroin pays $150 – $200 per day to support their habit? Why do you think many need to turn to crime to raise that amount of money? If heroin was legal perhaps the cost would come down. To less than $1 per day. No more drug wars. Drastic reduction in over doses. Not sure what the downside would be. that would be a druggie's paradise, the downside would be that every dog and his bone would be in on it Have you worked with a lot of drug users? Alcohol is legal but everyone does not walk around drunk every day. Various drugs are available in many places and the fears that you are projecting just are not born out. Think of what good the $51 billion spent on the war on drugs might do if it went to help people who are addicted instead of driving up the price of drugs, making the quality guesswork, putting millions at risk as they transport drugs to the users, and putting billions of dollars into the hands of criminals. Are you aware that in the 1990s the Netherlands started to provide long-term addicts with free government heroin. Sounds like your worst nightmare. But now the government of the Netherlands reports that heroin use is practically non-existent by people under 40. Here is a plan put forth in the UK |
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Post by rational on Apr 29, 2015 20:20:57 GMT -5
I could be wrong, but it seems to me that Bert is saying if cases of abortion were limited to rape, incest or similar conditions, and cases of divorce were limited to physical spouse abuse society might be more stable for many and especially children. Emy, so are you saying if divorce was limited to physical spouse abuse, children would have a more stable home ? Lets think about that, so if a person is cheating on their partner with prostitutes and other people does that have any effect on the children ? If a person is an alcoholic and will not get help, does that have any effect on the children ? How do you propose to limit divorce to physical abuse? There seems to be this idea amongst people that divorce is easy, that a couple just wake up one morning and say lets get divorced ! Don't you think some people do think of their children & that is why they divorce ! There are many types of abuse. Some subtle. Most harmful. There is always a hue and cry when people post about child abuse. It seems to be mostly limited to sexual child abuse. Yet there seems to be little concern about keeping children in dysfunctional situations for the sake of limiting divorce. Abuse is abuse and it is not in the best interest of children. Even though sexual abuse is overshadowed by physical, psychological, and emotional abuse in terms of frequency it catches people's attention and drives moral panic which sadly often works against real reform. |
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Post by emy on Apr 29, 2015 22:18:52 GMT -5
CPS (child protection services) apparently has not given much merit to the importance of homes without arguments (by the way, my parents argued A LOT and it was uncomfortable sometimes, but divorce would have been MUCH worse), alcoholism, abuse, etc. Maybe you missed my post on the last page:
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2015 23:44:35 GMT -5
that would be a druggie's paradise, the downside would be that every dog and his bone would be in on it Do you think so? Do you reckon it's the cost that's keeping people like you and me off drugs? If heroin were free, that wouldn't persuade me to take it. maybe so but you are not everybody |
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Post by magpie on Apr 30, 2015 0:15:43 GMT -5
G'Day Walker 1903, Yes a registered N.S.W.paedophile re baptised recently. But a greater noise made about that- than the victims of worker male/female, homo/lesbo/paedo's,because as many of them were told "you will get over it",so they wont return,as fingure pointing judges have them branded as unsaved now because what would invite them back to such a cold compassionate sect? I know as a victim of the above to hear at a local 21st 2x2 birthday party,"who invited him"? I think Jesus would have said "go you are healed,they cannot hurt you".
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 30, 2015 3:21:11 GMT -5
CPS (child protection services) apparently has not given much merit to the importance of homes without arguments (by the way, my parents argued A LOT and it was uncomfortable sometimes, but divorce would have been MUCH worse), alcoholism, abuse, etc. Maybe you missed my post on the last page: Sorry Emy I do not understand what the above you have posted has got to do with what we were talking about, there is a huge difference between parents arguing to physical violence or alcohol abuse ! So are you saying its better for children to live with an alcoholic parent than for their parents to divorce? Do you personally know what it like to live in this situation? Have you had your partner/spouse cheat on you ? |
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 30, 2015 3:29:44 GMT -5
That is exactly right it is a difficult issue, so unless you personally are in that situation you have no idea ! Sure you have an opinion, but that opinion is only based on your views not your experience. The same as abuse in a marriage, have you experienced that personally ? Do you know or understand how hard divorce is ? So the point I am making is don't generalise or make statements about issues you personally have not experienced. Bert I am still waiting for an answer !!!! What do you really understand about divorce ? |
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Post by snow on Apr 30, 2015 11:29:00 GMT -5
Quote - "Isn't this resulting in a fairer society Bert? Abortion frees a woman from a life sentence of mothering the child of her rapist (I'm not advocating it, just sayin'). Divorce frees a woman from a life sentence of enduring domestic abuse and risking her life. I don't know much about marijuana for medicinal purposes but I wonder if you also have a problem with morphine for medicinal purposes?"
It might be for the cases similar to the ones you mentioned -
but we aint stopping there, are we?
We abort a child who's father is a rapist - and then everyone
who was never raped can get an abortion, too. And that includes
a few tens of millions of unborn girls.
Solved one problem, creation ten million others.
We save a woman from being abused by her husband, and water
down what marriage means - and then everyone who doesn't have
an abusive spouse can get a quickie divorce. And then there's
the ten of millions of single parent kids struggling against
the odds.
So we legalize a narcotic for "medicinal purposes" (wink wink,
nudge nudge) and tens of millions of people with no medical issues
think its okay to consume narcotics.Bert, you really don't get it, that much is clear. Have you ever been in pain or been nauseated due to chemo? Have you tried marijuana to help with the pain or the nausea? If you haven't you probably don't have a clue what you are talking about and just being ignorant. It has helped many people and just because you don't know because you've not had the experience, doesn't mean that you are right. It's also pretty clear that you have never experienced rape or spousal abuse. I wish you would think before you post about things you have never experienced. I was raped and thankfully never got pregnant. I don't know what my decision would have been, but I am glad that I would have had a chance to make a decision one way or the other. I was in a physically abusive marriage and there was also a lot of emotional abuse. Even if it had just been emotional abuse, there is no way I should have stayed and let my children think that was what a marriage should be like. As it was I stayed too long. When someone becomes controlling it's a subtle process where they wear you down slowly and you don't even realize how much they are undermining your self confidence and self respect until it's too late. The damage is done. Not all women are able to get out of these situations and they die in them. Abuse escalates most of the time. A child should not be in a home where there is any of these things happening because then we just continue the abuse cycle. I worked with men who abused their wives and did intakes for the group. I can tell you that many of the said they saw their father beating their mom. Many of them said they had swore they would never do that to their wives and then it happened. The reason for that in many cases is that they never had a role model in their father that taught them how to resolve conflicts without physical abuse. So they never learned and when they got into a situation where they were very angry, they struck out. Most of them were appalled by their behavior because they had hated watching their moms get hurt. Some men are able to break the cycle, but most do what they learned and that was to strike out when angry instead of dealing with conflict in a more reasonable way. |
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Post by snow on Apr 30, 2015 11:36:28 GMT -5
Stop and think @wally. Why do you think a person addicted to heroin pays $150 – $200 per day to support their habit? Why do you think many need to turn to crime to raise that amount of money? If heroin was legal perhaps the cost would come down. To less than $1 per day. No more drug wars. Drastic reduction in over doses. Not sure what the downside would be. that would be a druggie's paradise, the downside would be that every dog and his bone would be in on it Now that's a pretty good indication that you know nothing about what you are talking about. Would you be taking heroin if it was legal? Think about what you just said and I hope you realize just how inaccurate it is. |
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Post by rational on Apr 30, 2015 12:52:32 GMT -5
Do you think so? Do you reckon it's the cost that's keeping people like you and me off drugs? If heroin were free, that wouldn't persuade me to take it. maybe so but you are not everybody As it was found in Amsterdam, when heroin was provided free heroin use under the age of 40 is practically non-existent. The data does not support your fear that if drugs were available for free that there would be a large number of people who would start taking drugs. Or perhaps you have data that contradicts what the Netherlands and the Swiss have found. |
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Post by bubbles on Apr 30, 2015 23:39:39 GMT -5
Emy, so are you saying if divorce was limited to physical spouse abuse, children would have a more stable home ? Lets think about that, so if a person is cheating on their partner with prostitutes and other people does that have any effect on the children ? If a person is an alcoholic and will not get help, does that have any effect on the children ? How do you propose to limit divorce to physical abuse? There seems to be this idea amongst people that divorce is easy, that a couple just wake up one morning and say lets get divorced ! Don't you think some people do think of their children & that is why they divorce ! People really have no idea unless they've lived it! I didn't find out until my children were older because they hid it from me, that not only were they watching me bring abused by my ex but when I was out he was physically abusing them! My son and daughter didn't tell me until they were adults. I never thought that he had hurt them! My son said he didn't want to tell me because I was already going through so much, and he was warned not to say anything by his father! He was under 8 years old my daughter was under 6! I cried and cried! He could have carried that on for years if I stayed! My kids would have ended up like him! But they are now stable loving adults! My ex was an alcoholic, he had a temper anyway, but when he got drunk he flipped! Then there's the mental torture which mixed with the physical is unbearable! The people here who are in loving marriages are blessed. But you shouldn't judge. Because you have no idea what it's like to live in that situation. My faith in God and my love for my children and mother pulled me through. I was planning on leaving him when I found out on top of everything else he was sleeping with different women in work! Every little bit of love I had left in my body for him, left me at that moment! For the judgmental people on here unless you've lived it. Then you have no right to judge. Because you don't know what you're talking about! I say amen to that! |
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 1, 2015 0:29:20 GMT -5
I reckon the thoughts and concepts expressed on here around women and divorce, staying in marriages, not having abortions comes from a male who believes that men have a God given right to rule, especially over women. It's all about control.
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Post by emy on May 1, 2015 2:05:54 GMT -5
CPS (child protection services) apparently has not given much merit to the importance of homes without arguments (by the way, my parents argued A LOT and it was uncomfortable sometimes, but divorce would have been MUCH worse), alcoholism, abuse, etc. Maybe you missed my post on the last page: Sorry Emy I do not understand what the above you have posted has got to do with what we were talking about, there is a huge difference between parents arguing to physical violence or alcohol abuse ! So are you saying its better for children to live with an alcoholic parent than for their parents to divorce? Do you personally know what it like to live in this situation? Have you had your partner/spouse cheat on you ? Can you provide any info on what % of divorces involve alcohol or spouse/child abuse? I'm not talking about those divorces. I'm talking about some that used to have the grounds as 'incompatible.' |
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Post by Roselyn T on May 1, 2015 3:00:09 GMT -5
I would have no idea what % of divorces involve alcohol/ spouse abuse, I am posting from my personally experience which includes alcohol abuse/ infidelity/ mental illness & the effect it had on my children. Also the effect it had on me as a child to see the physical abuse of my mother.
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Post by dmmichgood on May 1, 2015 3:16:16 GMT -5
WALLY,Wally,Wally,,, WHY? do workers and innercircles protect the known homo/lesbians,even in courts,send knowns off shore,and even say "he (suicided) for the sake of the Kingdom"---and to bad if you are a victim they have even said to some "you will get over it". I think that so many are pedo/homo/lesbo, deviants or why would they accept a young worker being stood aside because he laid a charge against a unholy old stallwart,in Sth Aust? Why would they arrange an expensive (in-) famous criminal psychologist and barrister to hide from the court that Ernie Barry had known to Warrigal police 12 more victims? I am starting to believe confession has a place especially for helping victims who have not self distructed or have developed mental illness,EG Ian Parker? HEY? there were 3x perpetrator workers in his sexually abused history,and one wont ever be game enough to return from Sth America,"WHY I WONDER" Do you know which ones are unamed yet? "NO". But as teens at convention us young ladies and gents used to name the butch workers or feminant (males)workers,,,,your statistics are out about 35/40%%%. Prove that wrong. Now protect the current kids going to convictions or having the doubtfuls in their homes. Remember demand for celibacy is both unatural & unbiblical.
I would think the majority would be heterosexual.
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Post by rational on May 1, 2015 9:22:39 GMT -5
I could be wrong, but it seems to me that Bert is saying if cases of abortion were limited to rape, incest or similar conditions, and cases of divorce were limited to physical spouse abuse society might be more stable for many and especially children. Emy, so are you saying if divorce was limited to physical spouse abuse, children would have a more stable home ? Not if the children were being abused. Not if the children are unaware of the indiscretions. Not if the person does not drink to excess when around the children. Divorce should be determined by the people involved with the contract. If they are in a relationship that is unsatisfactory to either party they should either seek to remedy the problem(s) or separate. Divorce is not wonderful for any involved but living under adverse conditions is not either. Divorce is between the people who are married to each other and the decision should rest with them and them alone. You can't make blanket decisions because all situations are different and unless you are experiencing them on a daily basis you really can't judge what is best. Absolutely. It is the couple that have to make the decision and for an outside organization to apply pressure regarding an already difficult decision borders on cruelty. |
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Post by rational on May 1, 2015 9:46:42 GMT -5
WALLY,Wally,Wally,,, WHY? do workers and innercircles protect the known homo/lesbians,even in courts,send knowns off shore,and even say "he (suicided) for the sake of the Kingdom" Protect them from what? Have they done something illegal that the courts would take offense? The only crime I see is using 'suicide' as a verb.Sounds like they were protecting their image. And that is, after all, the role of the defense team in a court proceeding. What would confession have done? Because there is a criminal warrant out for their arrest? But think how different things would be had the victim reported the initial crime to the authorities. Instead of living in the past perhaps insuring that future victims know how to stop the abuse would be a better use of your energy.And yet no one reported their criminal activities. Use your energy to make sure that going forward there is a change for the better to reduce the number of future victims.I have yet to see any proof that you have presented. What percentage of the workers do you think are offenders?You can continue to try to blame all of the problems on celibate people but there is little data that supports your claim. Repeating it over and over does not make it true. Teach young people to take responsibility for their actions. Teach them how to be safe in the face of offenders. Even a small child screaming "No!" will attract a lot of attention. And of course, there are the parents. They need to step up and do their job. |
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Post by Roselyn T on May 2, 2015 1:18:55 GMT -5
That is exactly right it is a difficult issue, so unless you personally are in that situation you have no idea ! Sure you have an opinion, but that opinion is only based on your views not your experience. The same as abuse in a marriage, have you experienced that personally ? Do you know or understand how hard divorce is ? So the point I am making is don't generalise or make statements about issues you personally have not experienced. Bert I am still waiting for an answer !!!! What do you really understand about divorce ? |
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