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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2015 3:21:58 GMT -5
Dmmichgood, you are old enough to remember when YOU thought homosexual marriage
was repulsive.
Don't tell me what I thought about something!
Chances are, if you are my age then yes, you too would have thought
gay marriage was a bridge too far. So too did the majority of gays.
You will ALWAYS get those who claim "if we had been in that generation
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 28, 2015 4:53:41 GMT -5
Quote - "Isn't this resulting in a fairer society Bert? Abortion frees a woman from a life sentence of mothering the child of her rapist (I'm not advocating it, just sayin'). Divorce frees a woman from a life sentence of enduring domestic abuse and risking her life. I don't know much about marijuana for medicinal purposes but I wonder if you also have a problem with morphine for medicinal purposes?"
It might be for the cases similar to the ones you mentioned -
but we aint stopping there, are we?
We abort a child who's father is a rapist - and then everyone
who was never raped can get an abortion, too. And that includes
a few tens of millions of unborn girls.
Solved one problem, creation ten million others.
We save a woman from being abused by her husband, and water
down what marriage means - and then everyone who doesn't have
an abusive spouse can get a quickie divorce. And then there's
the ten of millions of single parent kids struggling against
the odds.
So we legalize a narcotic for "medicinal purposes" (wink wink,
nudge nudge) and tens of millions of people with no medical issues
think its okay to consume narcotics.Bert I must say you have really excelled this time; Do you know what its like to be raped, do you know what its like to be suffer physical abuse from a partner, Do you know the pain a cancer patient has to suffer ? How dare you say "We save a woman from being abused by her husband, and water down what marriage means - and then everyone who doesn't have an abusive spouse can get a quickie divorce' You obviously have no idea, understanding or compassion for women/men who live with an abusive spouse. You also have no idea about divorce ! I suppose you would agree with the worker that told me it was better for my children to live with an alcoholic father than divorce ! |
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Post by magpie on Apr 28, 2015 5:09:48 GMT -5
The terms are SICK & DEPRAVED? This board was started to try and protect the 2x2 children,teens and young adults. You have brought it into a Sydney style filthy Gay Mardi Gras. What is in your minds to carry on with such deviant dirty trash? People are born with genetic disorders,unatural to the onlooker. But scriptures refer to us born of common genetics,who turn to the unatural lusts and sick perverted acts with animals and other forms of unatural acts. Now celibate????workers paedophiles a mental disorder that takes them to act crimnally towards mostly pre pubecent children and "ANIMALS"",yes animals,and workers names all over the world are being picked out rightly as paedophiles,study it . NOW!!!get back to protecting the children,NOW!!! You near all seem to be ones who would reville in sick dirty jokes? As a victim of 2x2x2's CSA crimes, just get on with Gods requirements of you in this matter,no excuses,heard enough of them.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2015 6:44:19 GMT -5
Quote - 'Bert I must say you have really excelled this time;
Do you know what its like to be raped, do you know what its like to be suffer physical abuse from a partner, Do you know the pain a cancer patient has to suffer ?
How dare you say "We save a woman from being abused by her husband, and water
down what marriage means - and then everyone who doesn't have
an abusive spouse can get a quickie divorce' You obviously have no idea, understanding or compassion for women/men who live with an abusive spouse. You also have no idea about divorce ! I suppose you would agree with the worker that told me it was better for my children to live with an alcoholic father than divorce !"
So how many abortions you know stem from rape?
How many marijuana smokers you know suffer from cancer?
How many divorces you know REALLY come from "abuse"?
IMO its like this:
once you saw some person get it in the neck because of the
strict rules of society, ie bearing a rapist's child.
Let's call it the "common good."
Now we have reversed all this - the individual's right to
an abortion, divorce or dope is more important than the
common good of society at large.
But when society degenerates, what then for the individual
who depends upon that society?
So lots of unborn babies get killed because some woman
had one from a rape. Lots of young people find that their
notion of marriage as binding, sacred, commitment, till death
do us part arrangement has been undermined because some
were abused, and now divorce is as trivial and as common
as "living together." Marriage means less now than at any
time in history.
Chickens come home to roost, eventually.
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Post by rational on Apr 28, 2015 14:52:37 GMT -5
We abort a child who's father is a rapist - and then everyone who was never raped can get an abortion, too. And that includes a few tens of millions of unborn girls. Solved one problem, creation ten million others. What are the problems created? Not providing for unwanted children? Not having children born into families where they are not wanted? What does marriage mean? In the real world. I say legalize marijuana for personal use. I am not sure who mentioned narcotics but I would be in favor of legalizing those as well. What is the downside? Remember caffeine is a strong stimulant that is used world-wide with minimal problems. Why do you feel marijuana would not fall into the same type of use? |
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Post by rational on Apr 28, 2015 15:10:31 GMT -5
So how many abortions you know stem from rape? How many places can you name that have exceptions to current abortion laws that include rape? How many marijuana users do you know that presentr a problem to society? Isn't living in a situation where you do not want to be a form of abuse? Historically the exceptions to the anti-abortion laws were mush broader than you are setting up as your straw man argument. Finally. Marriage in a society should not be based on biblical terms. It is a legal contract and should be subject to the same rules as any contract. If you want a religious set of rules to be overlaid on the legal contract let the churches do what they feel is right. Yes they do. Make a lot of drugs illegal, spend billions trying to keep people from using them, and you end up with a real war with many more people being harmed and killed that the use of the drugs would ever cause. Who is being protected by making drugs illegal? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2015 17:12:14 GMT -5
I have no problem with legalizing drugs - only because the 'war on drugs'
from the 1960's has failed. BTW I supported that 'war.'
I was wrong - but only in that the war is clearly lost and whole countries
have been consumed by it (I visited central America)
I recognize too the argument that one factor for the reduction in crime in
the USA is due to 'less unwanted children.'
Our notion of marriage isn't strictly set to 'biblical' terms. Marriage
exists in all cultures, and for many the penalty of straying from it was
death.
It's the COST which we don't talk about. Every social change comes at a
cost, but that cost isn't in activists equation. Example: arranged marriages
work best, but we as a society have dispensed with that. We write screen
plays and novels about young people fighting to be free to marry whom they
will - no-one does a film or book about the statistics on what works best!
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 28, 2015 17:39:31 GMT -5
Again Bert, do you personally know what it is like to life in an abusive relationship ? Do you have any idea of how children are effected by seeing their mother/father being abused ? Once again you have shown you ignorance of this issue, unless you personally have experienced this you have no idea or compassion.
I notice you didn't answer my question either ... Is it better for children to live with an alcoholic father than divorce? Yet when it comes to workers in your church who commit CSA you want to justify what they have done !
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2015 17:43:49 GMT -5
Quote - 'Is it better for children to live with an alcoholic father than divorce?"
That's a desperately difficult issue.
Many marriage counselors and psychiatrists say
that a bad home is better than no home. But again,
there's lots of context involved.
Say that I have no idea of some social issue is not
correct. I am saying that often the cure (for society)
is worse than the condition.
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 28, 2015 17:55:13 GMT -5
That is exactly right it is a difficult issue, so unless you personally are in that situation you have no idea ! Sure you have an opinion, but that opinion is only based on your views not your experience. The same as abuse in a marriage, have you experienced that personally ? Do you know or understand how hard divorce is ? So the point I am making is don't generalise or make statements about issues you personally have not experienced.
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Post by rational on Apr 28, 2015 19:38:07 GMT -5
Our notion of marriage isn't strictly set to 'biblical' terms. Marriage exists in all cultures, and for many the penalty of straying from it was death. Your statement " ...Lots of young people find that their
notion of marriage as binding, sacred, commitment, till death
do us part arrangement..." certainly does not sound like a civil marriage contract. Work best from whose point of view? |
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 28, 2015 21:43:28 GMT -5
Whoa! there, Bert!
Don't tell me what I thought about something!
Chances are, if you are my age then yes, you too would have thought
gay marriage was a bridge too far.
So too did the majority of gays.
You will ALWAYS get those who claim "if we had been in that generation
we would not have partaken of their sins."
Not everyone is like you!
How do you know what gays thought?
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 28, 2015 21:49:41 GMT -5
Quote - 'Is it better for children to live with an alcoholic father than divorce?" That's a desperately difficult issue.
Many marriage counselors and psychiatrists say that a bad home is better than no home.
But again, there's lots of context involved.
Say that I have no idea of some social issue is not correct. I am saying that often the cure (for society) is worse than the condition.
How many marriage counselors and psychiatrists have you actually heard or read say that a "bad home is better than no home.?"
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Post by withlove on Apr 28, 2015 22:58:32 GMT -5
So how many abortions you know stem from rape?
How many marijuana smokers you know suffer from cancer?
How many divorces you know REALLY come from "abuse"?
IMO its like this:
once you saw some person get it in the neck because of the
strict rules of society, ie bearing a rapist's child.
Let's call it the "common good."
Now we have reversed all this - the individual's right to
an abortion, divorce or dope is more important than the
common good of society at large.
But when society degenerates, what then for the individual
who depends upon that society?
So lots of unborn babies get killed because some woman
had one from a rape. Lots of young people find that their
notion of marriage as binding, sacred, commitment, till death
do us part arrangement has been undermined because some
were abused, and now divorce is as trivial and as common
as "living together." Marriage means less now than at any
time in history.
Chickens come home to roost, eventually. So you are blaming a rape victim, a cancer patient, and an abused spouse for the fall of society. Again, I want to ask about the use of quotation marks, and this time, capitalization: Do you think a significant number of people claiming spousal abuse are lying? And do you think certain types of abuse are not really abuse? What would those be? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2015 23:17:24 GMT -5
So how many abortions you know stem from rape? How many places can you name that have exceptions to current abortion laws that include rape? How many marijuana users do you know that presentr a problem to society? Isn't living in a situation where you do not want to be a form of abuse? Historically the exceptions to the anti-abortion laws were mush broader than you are setting up as your straw man argument. Finally. Marriage in a society should not be based on biblical terms. It is a legal contract and should be subject to the same rules as any contract. If you want a religious set of rules to be overlaid on the legal contract let the churches do what they feel is right. Yes they do. Make a lot of drugs illegal, spend billions trying to keep people from using them, and you end up with a real war with many more people being harmed and killed that the use of the drugs would ever cause. Who is being protected by making drugs illegal? about 25% of the time drug or alcohol users commit violent crimes about 25% of those committed the crime to get drug money so its a clear problem that wont be helped by legalizing drugs |
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Post by magpie on Apr 28, 2015 23:21:18 GMT -5
What on earth has all this hyperthetical crapp got to do with protecting our vulnerable children,teens and young adults? This from criminal paedophile CSA practiced by many 2x2s male/female ministers over the last century. No it is not a new revelation,cause I was first a victim 70 years ago. Now via modern communications and media all is being revealed----and Australias Royal Commission will research back decades,great news that
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2015 23:31:46 GMT -5
What on earth has all this hyperthetical crapp got to do with protecting our vulnerable children,teens and young adults? This from criminal paedophile CSA practiced by many 2x2s male/female ministers over the last century. No it is not a new revelation,cause I was first a victim 70 years ago. Now via modern communications and media all is being revealed----and Australias Royal Commission will research back decades,great news that I don't know magpie its less than a 1/2% of workers committing CSA I wouldn't consider that "many" if you go to the wings site I think there are 22 offenders so far(last I looked) and that hasn't changed in awhile.... |
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 28, 2015 23:39:30 GMT -5
Wally what bubble are you living in? Honestly wake up ! Are you so naïve that you think every CSA case is listed on Wings !!
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Post by withlove on Apr 29, 2015 0:09:31 GMT -5
What on earth has all this hyperthetical crapp got to do with protecting our vulnerable children,teens and young adults? This from criminal paedophile CSA practiced by many 2x2s male/female ministers over the last century. No it is not a new revelation,cause I was first a victim 70 years ago. Now via modern communications and media all is being revealed----and Australias Royal Commission will research back decades,great news that I don't know magpie its less than a 1/2% of workers committing CSA I wouldn't consider that "many" if you go to the wings site I think there are 22 offenders so far(last I looked) and that hasn't changed in awhile.... What are the stats on: - incidents
- victims
- victims who were not believed
- victims who were punished for speaking
- victims who were abused repeatedly
- adults who knew and turned a blind eye
- adults who were told but didn't believe
- overseers who mismanaged the abusers
- fields in which abuse happened
- fields to which abusers where sent to post-incident
- children in the presence of abusers post-incident
- meetings and conventions and get-togethers where children and abusers were present
- letters or conversations to/with overseers pleading for change in policy which were not heeded
- letters or conversations to/with friends and workers asking for all to be informed and take a stand
- months, years between adults knowing and adults reporting
- adults who supported the victims
- adults who supported the abusers
- $ and time spent on therapy
- victims who couldn't afford therapy
- childhoods ruined
- relationships ruined
- rifts in families, meetings, fellowship
- hearts broken
- people who left as a result of some of the above
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Post by rational on Apr 29, 2015 0:18:41 GMT -5
about 25% of the time drug or alcohol users commit violent crimes about 25% of those committed the crime to get drug money so its a clear problem that wont be helped by legalizing drugs Stop and think @wally. Why do you think a person addicted to heroin pays $150 – $200 per day to support their habit? Why do you think many need to turn to crime to raise that amount of money? If heroin was legal perhaps the cost would come down. To less than $1 per day. No more drug wars. Drastic reduction in over doses. Not sure what the downside would be. |
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Post by rational on Apr 29, 2015 0:34:13 GMT -5
What on earth has all this hyperthetical crapp got to do with protecting our vulnerable children,teens and young adults? This from criminal paedophile CSA practiced by many 2x2s male/female ministers over the last century. No it is not a new revelation,cause I was first a victim 70 years ago. Now via modern communications and media all is being revealed----and Australias Royal Commission will research back decades,great news that I don't know magpie its less than a 1/2% of workers committing CSA I wouldn't consider that "many" if you go to the wings site I think there are 22 offenders so far(last I looked) and that hasn't changed in awhile.... There is no reason to believe that the number of offenders is higher within any organization than without. |
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Post by emy on Apr 29, 2015 0:37:04 GMT -5
Quote - 'Is it better for children to live with an alcoholic father than divorce?" That's a desperately difficult issue.
Many marriage counselors and psychiatrists say that a bad home is better than no home.
But again, there's lots of context involved.
Say that I have no idea of some social issue is not correct. I am saying that often the cure (for society) is worse than the condition.
How many marriage counselors and psychiatrists have you actually heard or read say that a "bad home is better than no home.?"
I have heard of quite a few children being returned to a bad home simply because there is at least one parent in it. Or maybe if a parent isn't, they are placed in a different "bad home" because a grandparent is willing to take them (but not able to care for them). Meanwhile there is a good home desperately hoping they can have them back after caring for and loving them for months or even years.  |
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Post by emy on Apr 29, 2015 0:45:14 GMT -5
I could be wrong, but it seems to me that Bert is saying if cases of abortion were limited to rape, incest or similar conditions, and cases of divorce were limited to physical spouse abuse society might be more stable for many and especially children.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2015 1:35:39 GMT -5
about 25% of the time drug or alcohol users commit violent crimes about 25% of those committed the crime to get drug money so its a clear problem that wont be helped by legalizing drugs Stop and think @wally. Why do you think a person addicted to heroin pays $150 – $200 per day to support their habit? Why do you think many need to turn to crime to raise that amount of money? If heroin was legal perhaps the cost would come down. To less than $1 per day. No more drug wars. Drastic reduction in over doses. Not sure what the downside would be. that would be a druggie's paradise, the downside would be that every dog and his bone would be in on it |
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 29, 2015 2:04:16 GMT -5
I could be wrong, but it seems to me that Bert is saying if cases of abortion were limited to rape, incest or similar conditions, and cases of divorce were limited to physical spouse abuse society might be more stable for many and especially children. Emy, so are you saying if divorce was limited to physical spouse abuse, children would have a more stable home ? Lets think about that, so if a person is cheating on their partner with prostitutes and other people does that have any effect on the children ? If a person is an alcoholic and will not get help, does that have any effect on the children ? How do you propose to limit divorce to physical abuse? There seems to be this idea amongst people that divorce is easy, that a couple just wake up one morning and say lets get divorced ! Don't you think some people do think of their children & that is why they divorce ! |
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Post by magpie on Apr 29, 2015 2:44:30 GMT -5
WALLY,Wally,Wally,,, WHY? do workers and innercircles protect the known homo/lesbians,even in courts,send knowns off shore,and even say "he (suicided) for the sake of the Kingdom"---and to bad if you are a victim they have even said to some "you will get over it". I think that so many are pedo/homo/lesbo, deviants or why would they accept a young worker being stood aside because he laid a charge against a unholy old stallwart,in Sth Aust? Why would they arrange an expensive (in-) famous criminal psychologist and barrister to hide from the court that Ernie Barry had known to Warrigal police 12 more victims? I am starting to believe confession has a place especially for helping victims who have not self distructed or have developed mental illness,EG Ian Parker? HEY? there were 3x perpetrator workers in his sexually abused history,and one wont ever be game enough to return from Sth America,"WHY I WONDER" Do you know which ones are unamed yet? "NO". But as teens at convention us young ladies and gents used to name the butch workers or feminant (males)workers,,,,your statistics are out about 35/40%%%. Prove that wrong. Now protect the current kids going to convictions or having the doubtfuls in their homes.Remember demand for celibacy is both unatural & unbiblical.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2015 2:51:36 GMT -5
Magpie, do former 2x2 pedophiles become exes?
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Post by maryhig on Apr 29, 2015 2:57:05 GMT -5
I could be wrong, but it seems to me that Bert is saying if cases of abortion were limited to rape, incest or similar conditions, and cases of divorce were limited to physical spouse abuse society might be more stable for many and especially children. Emy, so are you saying if divorce was limited to physical spouse abuse, children would have a more stable home ? Lets think about that, so if a person is cheating on their partner with prostitutes and other people does that have any effect on the children ? If a person is an alcoholic and will not get help, does that have any effect on the children ? How do you propose to limit divorce to physical abuse? There seems to be this idea amongst people that divorce is easy, that a couple just wake up one morning and say lets get divorced ! Don't you think some people do think of their children & that is why they divorce ! People really have no idea unless they've lived it! I didn't find out until my children were older because they hid it from me, that not only were they watching me bring abused by my ex but when I was out he was physically abusing them! My son and daughter didn't tell me until they were adults. I never thought that he had hurt them! My son said he didn't want to tell me because I was already going through so much, and he was warned not to say anything by his father! He was under 8 years old my daughter was under 6! I cried and cried! He could have carried that on for years if I stayed! My kids would have ended up like him! But they are now stable loving adults! My ex was an alcoholic, he had a temper anyway, but when he got drunk he flipped! Then there's the mental torture which mixed with the physical is unbearable! The people here who are in loving marriages are blessed. But you shouldn't judge. Because you have no idea what it's like to live in that situation. My faith in God and my love for my children and mother pulled me through. I was planning on leaving him when I found out on top of everything else he was sleeping with different women in work! Every little bit of love I had left in my body for him, left me at that moment! For the judgmental people on here unless you've lived it. Then you have no right to judge. Because you don't know what you're talking about! |
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