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Post by StAnne on Mar 28, 2012 9:13:44 GMT -5
HF, I think its ridiculous to suggest God would have an issue with me worshipping the Son of God. I doubt there was a man-made three-person-god theory when the disciples worshipped the Son of God. ========================================== Matthew 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God. Son of God ... if God is his Father, then he is equal to the Father. How quickly you disregard the on-going discussions that clearly give insight to the true meaning of Son of God. Equal with the Father. Resulting in a charge of blasphemy for which the Pharisees wished to stone Jesus to death. It is in this very language that Jesus began to teach who he really was and is. That God the Father is his father - remember - God would not be ' Father' were it not for Jesus, the Son, the eternal Word who took on human flesh, the God-Man. Yes. God the Father would indeed have an issue with you or anyone else worshipping 'a divine' who is not God, the one God. He would also have an issue with not being worshipped in the truth and glory of who he really is.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2012 12:24:33 GMT -5
The saying goes both ways for all of us, "convince a man against his will, he is of the same opinion still."
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Post by JO on Mar 28, 2012 12:52:14 GMT -5
So this verse would have been clearer as:
Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Second Person of the Holy Trinity.
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Post by StAnne on Mar 28, 2012 12:52:54 GMT -5
The saying goes both ways for all of us, "convince a man against his will, he is of the same opinion still." It is ours to witness to what we know is true. It is the Holy Spirit's to convict. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2012 13:38:05 GMT -5
That they worshipped Him as Divine says exactly that to me. Don't need it to be any plainer. The Father is Divine, The Son is Divine, The Holy Ghost is Divine. If some need it worded as sarcastically posted and quoted above, then obviously that is what they need. I do not. George Walker did not, Jack Carroll did not, Therold Sylvester did not, Carson Cowan did not, Mabel Gibson did not, Leo Stancliff did not, as they all believed and expressed only God to be Divine and the Father, Son and Holy Ghost were all Divine.
However, it is not because of their teaching and record on the matter that I also believe it true, rather because asking seeking knocking of GOD has revealed it to me. Carson liked George Walker's illustration of a shamrock as a means to comprehend the issue, and on occasion quoted it as he spoke regarding the topic.
On the other hand, Sydney Holt did not believe it, and some workers have been quoted as saying the teaching comes right from Hell. This I know, when I told an older elder and convention owner in Europe that some workers in the USA were denying that The Lord Yahu'shuah is GOD the Son (meaning of SON OF GOD, surely!) He was shocked and could not believe it!
Each will chose for themselves what to believe on this matter. Sarcasm is not going to help convince me otherwise. For myself I do not want to resort to the sarcastic tactics best used by those with no other answer than its use. But that is just my thinking on the matter and not anything I can say is specifically from the Lord.[/color]
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Post by JO on Mar 28, 2012 14:11:58 GMT -5
"Son of God" is a biblical term.
"God the Son" is not.
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Post by Happy Feet on Mar 28, 2012 14:22:54 GMT -5
HF, I think its ridiculous to suggest God would have an issue with me worshipping the Son of God. I doubt there was a man-made three-person-god theory when the disciples worshiped the Son of God. ========================================== Matthew 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshiped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God. So the Bible is man made in your eyes, JO, but not mine. When I read my Bible I see many verses that directly say that Jesus is God. Immanuel God with us. And the verse you quoted above is another Scripture which says that Jesus is God - as only God is worshiped. Do you think these men would have worshiped Jesus if he was not God?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2012 14:53:59 GMT -5
JO, do you deny that God's Son is the same as Son of God? Some languages have no definite nor indefinite article. Some languages use Son of God, some us a form of (translated literally) God('s) Son.
Yes, I chose not to use GOD as an adjective or object of a preposition, thus I chose to state; God the Son. Why do you not answer my question how you distinguish between the Father and the Son in you, or explain how THEY dwell in either of us? Try to help me understand other than attempting to use your own belief regarding the difference between expressing "God, The Son" and "The Son of God."
Linguistics are a complex thing. Some prepositions exist in some languages and are translated more than one way, and not in other cases. Yes, I DO believe I am a good language student, and have studied a number and dabbled in others. It happens to be a gift from my GOD, and I began using Swedish the very first week in the country having never known any word of it prior to that except "Tack!"
No, I'm not a perfect linguistic scholar in the sense of being impossible to improve upon. However, usage of the word "perfect" in the Bible often means "complete, whole." If we refer to a perfect apple it does not mean it could not be juicier, larger, better formed, etc. Does it not mean that it is whole, complete and what one looks for in an apple?
Can you even teach me what you believe without being sarcastic? Please start with what you believe is meant where John records of HIM, "in the Beginning was the word, and the WORD was God and was with God...that the Word was made flesh and lived and dwelled among us?"
Please explain how you can know the difference between God the Father and the SON of God. Remember that the Son of God, (or in my understanding as expressed in other languages: (literally) God Son) is recorded to have said when someone asked Him to show them the Father, have I been so long with you and you do not know that if you have seen me, you HAVE seen the Father?
Can you explain why so many of the older workers believed GOD existed as Father Son and Holy Ghost? I can for I once asked many of them.
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Post by StAnne on Mar 28, 2012 15:05:57 GMT -5
So this verse would have been clearer as: Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Second Person of the Holy Trinity.Whether they knew explicitly at that time isn't known, but they were certainly getting the idea and were acknowledging Jesus as Son and God the Father as his father. As Matthew's account continues, by the time we get to Ch 18, Peter does know; it has been revealed unto him ... Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.
Have you prayed that it would be revealed unto you? ![](http://www.runemasterstudios.com/graemlins/images/pray.gif)
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Post by JO on Mar 28, 2012 17:10:29 GMT -5
So this verse would have been clearer as: Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Second Person of the Holy Trinity.Whether they knew explicitly at that time isn't known, but they were certainly getting the idea and were acknowledging Jesus as Son and God the Father as his father. As Matthew's account continues, by the time we get to Ch 18, Peter does know; it has been revealed unto him ... Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.
Have you prayed that it would be revealed unto you? ![](http://www.runemasterstudios.com/graemlins/images/pray.gif) I already believe that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the living God. What I don't believe is the neccessity of your man-made trinity theory. So should I pray "God, please convince me that the trinity theory is true"?
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Post by StAnne on Mar 28, 2012 17:22:48 GMT -5
Whether they knew explicitly at that time isn't known, but they were certainly getting the idea and were acknowledging Jesus as Son and God the Father as his father. As Matthew's account continues, by the time we get to Ch 18, Peter does know; it has been revealed unto him ... Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.
Have you prayed that it would be revealed unto you? ![](http://www.runemasterstudios.com/graemlins/images/pray.gif) I already believe that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the living God. What I don't believe is the neccessity of your man-made trinity theory. So should I pray "God, please convince me that the trinity theory is true"? How about praying that the truth of the Trinity would be revealed unto you. That leaves it in God's hands and doesn't go against what you believe at this time.
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Post by sharonw on Mar 28, 2012 18:52:00 GMT -5
HF, I think its ridiculous to suggest God would have an issue with me worshipping the Son of God. I doubt there was a man-made three-person-god theory when the disciples worshipped the Son of God. ========================================== Matthew 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God. Son of God ... if God is his Father, then he is equal to the Father. How quickly you disregard the on-going discussions that clearly give insight to the true meaning of Son of God. Equal with the Father. Resulting in a charge of blasphemy for which the Pharisees wished to stone Jesus to death. It is in this very language that Jesus began to teach who he really was and is. That God the Father is his father - remember - God would not be ' Father' were it not for Jesus, the Son, the eternal Word who took on human flesh, the God-Man. Yes. God the Father would indeed have an issue with you or anyone else worshipping 'a divine' who is not God, the one God. He would also have an issue with not being worshipped in the truth and glory of who he really is. I believe the only "divine" other then the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit would have to be the "angels in heaven", wouldn't it...And we see what the angels say about John falling down to worship them... Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See [thou do it] not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
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