|
Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 6, 2020 21:18:03 GMT -5
Your probably right, God is an exception to general principles, since everything is His, God is bound by nothing and doesn't negotiate, it simply is what He says it is. How did you determine this? If the perpetrator was a father and the victim was his child and the wallet was full of money that was previously given to the child, would it be moral to tell the child to give it back or be punished for eternity? I think you have that backwards. Believers are obsessed with death and 'where they will end up'. They're more concerned with the 'next life' than this one. Atheists acknowledge they only have this one shot, so are more likely to be making the most of it. As an atheist, I do not fear death. Sure, I fear pain etc, but not death itself, for I will simply be no longer, like a flame of an extinguished candle. I think if you really understood how hard it is to die, you might change your mind about not fearing death.
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 6, 2020 21:20:42 GMT -5
Pardon my butting in, Joanne; but you’re expecting answers from the wrong party. I know this from personal experience. Humans can’t answer you like you wanted answers because those answers have to come from God. You’ve become disenchanted because humans have failed to answer your questions. You’ve been expecting them from the wrong direction. For example, the young father who’d come to Jesus to heal his young daughter, Jesus said something about , “Oh ye of little faith.” What was there that Jesus detected about this young father? He apparently knew that this young father wasn’t really believing that Jesus as a man could heal his daughter. But when Jesus said that, the father grew aware of the gap in his faith so he cried out in desperation, “My Lord! Help thou mine unbelief.” You may not see where that brings the answers you want, but I can tell you it truly does. When you quit relying on human strengths and self then you can fully plea for help with your faith and then answers begin to come. It doesn’t hurt for us to plea that plea often because there’s just old human nature that slips in there thinking we can rely on self or other humans. It won’t work that way. What would your response be if I told you the reason you're not a Muslim is because you don't have enough faith in Allah? I said it would not surprise me if Allah and my God are the same person. And after hearing what the Ayatollah said about his general and God, I’m still wondering if they aren’t the same.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2020 21:48:31 GMT -5
What would your response be if I told you the reason you're not a Muslim is because you don't have enough faith in Allah? I said it would not surprise me if Allah and my God are the same person. And after hearing what the Ayatollah said about his general and God, I’m still wondering if they aren’t the same. read the quran and you'll see they are 2 different gods...the only similarity is Allah now means God in arabic....
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 6, 2020 21:59:55 GMT -5
I said it would not surprise me if Allah and my God are the same person. And after hearing what the Ayatollah said about his general and God, I’m still wondering if they aren’t the same. read the quran and you'll see they are 2 different gods...the only similarity is Allah now means God in arabic.... What I’m really wondering is the actual knowing stages of their Allah or God. We saw a lot of different perceptions in the OT, so I try to allow for the less understandings of people’s God in how they perceive him. I know there are differences in their practices but that comes from their life styles and perceptions. I’m the same way as far as the Native American Indians were concerned. Course most of them are Christian church oriented now. But it all comes down to recognizing there’s an higher power. And each have their cultures of society that pretty well dictates their perceptions of how to worship their higher power.
|
|
|
Post by speak on Jan 6, 2020 22:09:06 GMT -5
why would the workers be my master? To flatter their sense of importance. Man some of you people make some of the most ridiculous statements. Weird I must say.
|
|
|
Post by speak on Jan 6, 2020 22:12:48 GMT -5
sharingtheriches . You are not butting in STR Why would you expect god to answer questions when he is absent in times of trauma and disaster? The prayers of the children who are victims of CSA within religious organisations are unanswered and they typically remain the victims of abuse for many years. How do you explain the absence of god in these dire situations? Why would your god bother to answer the relatively trivial questions of yours or mine given people are pleading to him for help and they do not receive any? I wonder if you looked at what you requested of me?
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Jan 7, 2020 0:05:00 GMT -5
Yes -- aimed at modern Christians fundamentalism. Whatever that is! Maybe aimed at Christians in general? Not Christians in general. Just the kind that believe such things dogmatic notions as not believing in the Trinity will send people to hell.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Jan 7, 2020 0:08:14 GMT -5
What would your response be if I told you the reason you're not a Muslim is because you don't have enough faith in Allah? I said it would not surprise me if Allah and my God are the same person. And after hearing what the Ayatollah said about his general and God, I’m still wondering if they aren’t the same. Allah is the Arabic word for god. Dieu is the French word for god. Christians in Egypt call him "allah", Christians in France call him "dieu". It's a prideful stroke of ignorance for Christians to say that "allah" is not the same as "god".
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Jan 7, 2020 0:10:38 GMT -5
I said it would not surprise me if Allah and my God are the same person. And after hearing what the Ayatollah said about his general and God, I’m still wondering if they aren’t the same. read the quran and you'll see they are 2 different gods...the only similarity is Allah now means God in arabic.... Read the Old Testament and you'll learn all about "allah".
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Jan 7, 2020 0:12:49 GMT -5
What would your response be if I told you the reason you're not a Muslim is because you don't have enough faith in Allah? I said it would not surprise me if Allah and my God are the same person. And after hearing what the Ayatollah said about his general and God, I’m still wondering if they aren’t the same. Of course, STR -- Muslims believe in the God of Abraham.
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 7, 2020 0:14:07 GMT -5
I said it would not surprise me if Allah and my God are the same person. And after hearing what the Ayatollah said about his general and God, I’m still wondering if they aren’t the same. Allah is the Arabic word for god. Dieu is the French word for god. Christians in Egypt call him "allah", Christians in France call him "dieu". It's a prideful stroke of ignorance for Christians to say that "allah" is not the same as "god". I see what you’re saying, but as to thinking their god or Allah is the exact same person as my God is what I’ve been wondering about. It seems to me it’s a recognition of an higher power.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Jan 7, 2020 0:14:31 GMT -5
To flatter their sense of importance. Man some of you people make some of the most ridiculous statements. Weird I must say. You do realize we are talking about some very weird people, don't you?
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 7, 2020 0:15:07 GMT -5
read the quran and you'll see they are 2 different gods...the only similarity is Allah now means God in arabic.... Read the Old Testament and you'll learn all about "allah". I think the difference is a cultural perception.
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 7, 2020 0:17:02 GMT -5
Whatever that is! Maybe aimed at Christians in general? Not Christians in general. Just the kind that believe such things dogmatic notions as not believing in the Trinity will send people to hell. But the Trinity isn’t fundamental is it?
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Jan 7, 2020 0:19:37 GMT -5
Allah is the Arabic word for god. Dieu is the French word for god. Christians in Egypt call him "allah", Christians in France call him "dieu". It's a prideful stroke of ignorance for Christians to say that "allah" is not the same as "god". I see what you’re saying, but as to thinking their god or Allah is the exact same person as my God is what I’ve been wondering about. It seems to me it’s a recognition of an higher power. You do understand that the Muslims have the Jewish concept of God, and Christians have a Greek/Pagan concept of god. But there are as many kinds of Islam as there are of Christianity. Most of them think they are the only ones who have the right idea of what God is like. Maybe most people don't really know what the nature of god is -- they just go along with what they've been told. Most of them even have revelations from their own version of god, which probably explains why different peoples revelations conflict with each other.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Jan 7, 2020 0:20:53 GMT -5
Not Christians in general. Just the kind that believe such things dogmatic notions as not believing in the Trinity will send people to hell. But the Trinity isn’t fundamental is it? It is to you.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Jan 7, 2020 0:23:14 GMT -5
Read the Old Testament and you'll learn all about "allah". I think the difference is a cultural perception. A different culture can mean it's attributed to racial divisions.
|
|
|
Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jan 7, 2020 0:25:26 GMT -5
speak . How does the God you believe in guide you Speak ? (i do appreciate you answering my questions). In all the time i was in the 2x2 grp I Never Once heard the voice of god. Can you prove to me that you have heard his voice Speak? This question applies to all other believers whether meeting folk or not. Why is it that the knowledge of the Christian god requires human intervention? Infinite numbers of people across the history of the world do not know the God of Abraham because they have never had a Christian bible nor been preached to about its' content. Doesn't that make all Christians suspicious about the existence of this god? Why is he non-existent until people hear other people talk of him or they read of him? And doesn't this absence of god fit with the lack of his intervention in times of disaster? I was a child who tried to do the right thing, i prayed, obeyed my parents, attended meetings and missions, did not have 'worldly friends" except during school hours; and i recall desperately asking for god to speak with me. Yet i never once heard any external voice. I heard reiterations of biblical intonations and the words of preachers inside my own head and i tried to believe that was god speaking to me. But i could not Honestly maintain that deception. How can you be certain that the voice you hear is not sourced from within your own mind? Communication occurs on many different technical levels and these have surpassed previous generations predictions yet still there is no determination on the methodology used by faith-based believers in their alleged communication with god. For something to be real it has to be replicated and proven yet this is not the case with communication with god. The other night I was wondering about a certain subject and a voice sounded in my head read a certain chapter, I have never read that chapter before and would have never thought to read it. I found the answer to my wonderings. Also in dreams there come answers to things I have wondered about a good time ago. In reading, in meditating, in prayer and even in something someone has said. I am sorry that you have never heard the word of because you have such a wonderful glorious feeling. No I cannot prove to you that i have heard his voice within the proof you seek it is a thing that has to be experienced other than say I have. Many have believed the God of Abraham who have had no scripture who have been drawn by Him even the ones before Abraham, even the Kings in Daniels time. It doesn't require human intervention, when God has spoken to me it hasn't always been in preaching or from human hand but directly from Him. He certainly wasn't non-existent to me when I wasn't listening or attending, I was just like any other person who wasn't following Jesus. It is told in the Bible of times of disaster we have plenty of warning of what to expect and to be ready when our time comes. I cannot answer for what happened to you but there have been many who have waited for years but have been faithful in those times, take Cornelius Acts 10-11 to see such happened to him but he remained faithful to his belief. If it was in my own mind there wouldn't be any thought of God I can assure you of that. Gods thoughts and our thoughts are poles apart, they cannot be compared in way shape or form so your real, my real and Gods real are so completely different. Hope this is a help to you. How much warning did your god give you that the Chch earthquakes were going to happen?
|
|
|
Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jan 7, 2020 0:49:14 GMT -5
To flatter their sense of importance. Man some of you people make some of the most ridiculous statements. Weird I must say. Not at all weird. Many of the friends are in complete denial of the truth about the truth. Are you one of those?
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 7, 2020 2:20:05 GMT -5
I see what you’re saying, but as to thinking their god or Allah is the exact same person as my God is what I’ve been wondering about. It seems to me it’s a recognition of an higher power. You do understand that the Muslims have the Jewish concept of God, and Christians have a Greek/Pagan concept of god. But there are as many kinds of Islam as there are of Christianity. Most of them think they are the only ones who have the right idea of what God is like. Maybe most people don't really know what the nature of god is -- they just go along with what they've been told. Most of them even have revelations from their own version of god, which probably explains why different peoples revelations conflict with each other. But in the end it’s the Jewish God that reigns supreme, so the Bible says. He opened up salvation to the Gentiles only because the Jews had been so disobedient. It was to make them jealous. In Christ’s reign all will be together and there’ll be no Jew nor Gentile in Jerusalem. They’ll all be the saints of Christ. I’ve enjoyed listening to different Jews interpretation of the Messiah in a Jesus. They’ve put the IT right into the present day.
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 7, 2020 2:26:01 GMT -5
But the Trinity isn’t fundamental is it? It is to you. I’m not sure about that. It only makes sense though, that if we don’t know our Saviour can he not be justified in saying, “Depart from me, I never knew you.”? I know my question to God about revealing the concept to me was “if it is vital to my salvation.” So since he did reveal it, that seems to be the answer that it is vital to my salvation. But then I do admit that may not be true for everyone. But why I can’t tell you. But I do know the Bible tells us we are given revelations according to the amount of faith we have.
|
|
|
Post by benar on Jan 7, 2020 3:33:48 GMT -5
What would your response be if I told you the reason you're not a Muslim is because you don't have enough faith in Allah? I said it would not surprise me if Allah and my God are the same person. And after hearing what the Ayatollah said about his general and God, I’m still wondering if they aren’t the same. But according to each religion, you are either going to Christian Hell for not accepting Jesus or you're going to Islamic Hell for not praying 5 times a day. Which hell are you going to?
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 7, 2020 11:14:19 GMT -5
I said it would not surprise me if Allah and my God are the same person. And after hearing what the Ayatollah said about his general and God, I’m still wondering if they aren’t the same. But according to each religion, you are either going to Christian Hell for not accepting Jesus or you're going to Islamic Hell for not praying 5 times a day. Which hell are you going to? Neither!
|
|
|
Post by jetmech on Jan 7, 2020 11:47:42 GMT -5
How did you determine this? If the perpetrator was a father and the victim was his child and the wallet was full of money that was previously given to the child, would it be moral to tell the child to give it back or be punished for eternity? I think you have that backwards. Believers are obsessed with death and 'where they will end up'. They're more concerned with the 'next life' than this one. Atheists acknowledge they only have this one shot, so are more likely to be making the most of it. As an atheist, I do not fear death. Sure, I fear pain etc, but not death itself, for I will simply be no longer, like a flame of an extinguished candle. I think if you really understood how hard it is to die, you might change your mind about not fearing death. I think some believers just think atheists are being stupid for not using wise judgement I know I do.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jan 7, 2020 13:11:20 GMT -5
If you are the cause of the problem in the first place wouldn't it be a non choice if you want to survive? In the case of your analogy, the one offering you the lifeboat is not involved with the sinking unlike God is involved in the threat of hell if you don't do what he wants. gotta go back to the sinking ship again, when its sinking you don't take time to yell at whats sinking it you just get in the offered lifeboat and move on.... We've gotten totally away from the original point though. You said the man offering the lifeboat was extortion. I asked how that could be since he wasn't the reason the ship was sinking in the first place and all he was doing was offering a solution. Unlike when God makes the ship sink, gives you Jesus to offer you the lifeboat, and making it the only way to be saved. See the difference? If God hadn't made the ship sink in the first place then the offer of a lifeboat wouldn't be required.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jan 7, 2020 13:15:43 GMT -5
sharingtheriches . You are not butting in STR Why would you expect god to answer questions when he is absent in times of trauma and disaster? The prayers of the children who are victims of CSA within religious organisations are unanswered and they typically remain the victims of abuse for many years. How do you explain the absence of god in these dire situations? Why would your god bother to answer the relatively trivial questions of yours or mine given people are pleading to him for help and they do not receive any? But that's how prayer works. It's usually the time prayer starts, in times of a disaster. A real good example of this is just this week when some of the Christians on my sisters fb were exclaiming how great God was and 'thank you Jesus' because Australia finally got a bit of rain. Totally disregarding the fact that over half a billion animals have died, homes destroyed and also human life destroyed (not sure of the count on that). It just makes me sick when they do this. If there is a God that can make it rain then where the hell was he BEFORE there was so much suffering, death and destruction. But they don't ever seem to see that. I have to wonder how their brains are wired to not be able to see just how contradictory it all is.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jan 7, 2020 13:19:46 GMT -5
I believe you have that all backwards, STR.
You’re the one who wants only answers that you have already determined "come from God."
I did say “from my experience “. But I only say that because it worked for the father in the Bible and it worked for me. My experience has taught me that many humans just aren’t able to give the answers I need. They aren’t in my shoes and they have little idea where I’m wanting to go with my questions. I think it’s apparent that it’s that way in regards to anything spirit related. But then again one has to be born again in the spirit to receive help from even God in answers. Which just tells me that because only you know yourself the best, the answers need to come from you in the first place. Others can offer opinions, but in the end it's you who knows what will work for you. You just happen give credit to a god while you're doing that process that atheists do and give credit to themselves being able to work out what they uniquely need.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jan 7, 2020 13:22:52 GMT -5
read the quran and you'll see they are 2 different gods...the only similarity is Allah now means God in arabic.... Read the Old Testament and you'll learn all about "allah". Absolutely. The OT reads like the Koran and Allah and Yahweh are definitely cut from the same cookie cutter. But you're also right that Allah is just God in Arabic as Dieu is God in French, so they all just refer to a 'God' in their language.
|
|