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Post by howitis on Dec 8, 2019 20:16:22 GMT -5
It was you that first mentioned Catholic, was it not? As in Anne who is now a Catholic! I am trying to point out to you that the Catholic version of the trinity and the trinity that you believe in are two different things, as I said that if you ask people about what the trinity means to them you get very different answers. We need to look at all of the Bible all of Jesus' words and not cherry pick an item here and there to formulate an idea or a construct that fits either our own ideas or popular opinion of the day. Not once have I said I do not believe in the so called trinity, and Nathan is well aware of what I believe, if we take just the word trinity to mean (by dictionary definition)a group of three people or things there are many trinities in the bible and life....., faith, hope, love for example.or birth, life, death Again from the dictionary trinity /ˈtrɪnɪti/ noun the state of being three. noun: trinity "God is said to be trinity in unity" When we look at it this way, I think you'll find that is far more understanding among those that you discredit than you think, as after all I feel there is trinity and Trinity. I didn’t mention Anne as having become Catholic as having to do with the assistance that Nathan and she gave trying to help me understand. That was an assumption of yours. I mentioned it only as a reference that she’d been a two by two , left and became a Catholic. Who naturally is taught the Trinity. Whether she prays to Mary was another assumption of yours by an automatic thought process you have about Catholics being reviled in your brain due to them praying to Mary. You see, that’s a typical response from 2x2s for many years now. Disregarding any individual’s faith that may differ from a superimposed implanted assumption! Nice to know of your assumptions, thank you, for your information some of my best friends are Catholic, my husband was brought up Catholic, more than half of my family are Catholic....but no according to YOU what I say is because it's a 'typical response from a 2x2'.... Never once did I say Anne prays to Mary, merely that I cannot reconcile myself to the"trinity" that prays Holy Mary mother of God, me I was talking about ME. ..that is all, take what you want from it, you will be perfectly correct in all that you say.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 8, 2019 21:09:13 GMT -5
I didn’t mention Anne as having become Catholic as having to do with the assistance that Nathan and she gave trying to help me understand. That was an assumption of yours. I mentioned it only as a reference that she’d been a two by two , left and became a Catholic. Who naturally is taught the Trinity. Whether she prays to Mary was another assumption of yours by an automatic thought process you have about Catholics being reviled in your brain due to them praying to Mary. You see, that’s a typical response from 2x2s for many years now. Disregarding any individual’s faith that may differ from a superimposed implanted assumption! Nice to know of your assumptions, thank you, for your information some of my best friends are Catholic, my husband was brought up Catholic, more than half of my family are Catholic....but no according to YOU what I say is because it's a 'typical response from a 2x2'.... Never once did I say Anne prays to Mary, merely that I cannot reconcile myself to the"trinity" that prays Holy Mary mother of God, me I was talking about ME. ..that is all, take what you want from it, you will be perfectly correct in all that you say. Again your assumption the “Trinity” prays to Mary is clearly off base. There is NO MENTION OF MARY IN THE TRINITY DOCTRINE. The doctrine is about Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Just as Jesus said to baptize converts in “the NAME of the FATHER, THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT.” You truly have preconceived and erroneous assumptions about the Trinity doctrine.
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Post by howitis on Dec 8, 2019 23:30:50 GMT -5
Nice to know of your assumptions, thank you, for your information some of my best friends are Catholic, my husband was brought up Catholic, more than half of my family are Catholic....but no according to YOU what I say is because it's a 'typical response from a 2x2'.... Never once did I say Anne prays to Mary, merely that I cannot reconcile myself to the"trinity" that prays Holy Mary mother of God, me I was talking about ME. ..that is all, take what you want from it, you will be perfectly correct in all that you say. Again your assumption the “Trinity” prays to Mary is clearly off base. There is NO MENTION OF MARY IN THE TRINITY DOCTRINE. The doctrine is about Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Just as Jesus said to baptize converts in “the NAME of the FATHER, THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT.” You truly have preconceived and erroneous assumptions about the Trinity doctrine. Of course I've truly erred and you are totally correct, please forgive my simple mind. If you had a son named Bob and someone came up to you or referred to you as 'sharingtheriches' mother of Ben, one would have to assume that either a) you had another child named Ben or b) someone had told that person that Bob and Ben are the same person. No it doesn't have to be written in the doctrine its fruits are in what is lived out in the people.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 23:35:53 GMT -5
Nice to know of your assumptions, thank you, for your information some of my best friends are Catholic, my husband was brought up Catholic, more than half of my family are Catholic....but no according to YOU what I say is because it's a 'typical response from a 2x2'.... Never once did I say Anne prays to Mary, merely that I cannot reconcile myself to the"trinity" that prays Holy Mary mother of God, me I was talking about ME. ..that is all, take what you want from it, you will be perfectly correct in all that you say. Again your assumption the “Trinity” prays to Mary is clearly off base. There is NO MENTION OF MARY IN THE TRINITY DOCTRINE. The doctrine is about Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Just as Jesus said to baptize converts in “the NAME of the FATHER, THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT.” You truly have preconceived and erroneous assumptions about the Trinity doctrine. ummm i seem to remember someone somewhere saying that mary was part of the trinity in some of the RCC world...
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Post by nathan on Dec 8, 2019 23:39:42 GMT -5
Nice to know of your assumptions, thank you, for your information some of my best friends are Catholic, my husband was brought up Catholic, more than half of my family are Catholic....but no according to YOU what I say is because it's a 'typical response from a 2x2'.... Never once did I say Anne prays to Mary, merely that I cannot reconcile myself to the"trinity" that prays Holy Mary mother of God, me I was talking about ME. ..that is all, take what you want from it, you will be perfectly correct in all that you say. Again your assumption the “Trinity” prays to Mary is clearly off base. There is NO MENTION OF MARY IN THE TRINITY DOCTRINE. The doctrine is about Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Just as Jesus said to baptize converts in “the NAME of the FATHER, THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT.” You truly have preconceived and erroneous assumptions about the Trinity doctrine. Amen! STR.... The doctrine of the TRINITY is about God the Father, Christ Lord God Savior, and Holy Spirit." the early church father coin that word to describe the existed in Genesis chapter 1. They are ETERNAL and existed before any pagans trinity came in existence.
The Trinity then got mangled, messed up, and misinterpreted so bad in the 4th centuries by the RCC and Arius ex-RCC and on ward! than what it meant by the 2nd century church fathers had in mind.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 8, 2019 23:39:50 GMT -5
Again your assumption the “Trinity” prays to Mary is clearly off base. There is NO MENTION OF MARY IN THE TRINITY DOCTRINE. The doctrine is about Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Just as Jesus said to baptize converts in “the NAME of the FATHER, THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT.” You truly have preconceived and erroneous assumptions about the Trinity doctrine. ummm i seem to remember someone somewhere saying that mary was part of the trinity in some of the RCC world... It wouldn’t be a Trinity.
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Post by Grant on Dec 8, 2019 23:41:13 GMT -5
Again your assumption the “Trinity” prays to Mary is clearly off base. There is NO MENTION OF MARY IN THE TRINITY DOCTRINE. The doctrine is about Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Just as Jesus said to baptize converts in “the NAME of the FATHER, THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT.” You truly have preconceived and erroneous assumptions about the Trinity doctrine. ummm i seem to remember someone somewhere saying that mary was part of the trinity in some of the RCC world... Trinity means 3 not 4. I seem to recall that you believe in the Trinity and Nathan certainly does. Have you ever seen Mary included in it?
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 8, 2019 23:43:05 GMT -5
Again your assumption the “Trinity” prays to Mary is clearly off base. There is NO MENTION OF MARY IN THE TRINITY DOCTRINE. The doctrine is about Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Just as Jesus said to baptize converts in “the NAME of the FATHER, THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT.” You truly have preconceived and erroneous assumptions about the Trinity doctrine. ummm i seem to remember someone somewhere saying that mary was part of the trinity in some of the RCC world... From questions about Catholic Faith: “Clarification for Non-catholics: While we love our Blessed Mother very much, we catholics do not consider her part of the Trinity. She is often described as the “neck” of the Body of Christ (which we are all members) and is not part of the Godhead. Mary acts as the bridge between God and believers and that is why it is her mission to lead all of her children to her son. She accepted this Universal Motherhood at the Cross when Jesus gave her to us through St. John.”
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 8, 2019 23:45:26 GMT -5
Again your assumption the “Trinity” prays to Mary is clearly off base. There is NO MENTION OF MARY IN THE TRINITY DOCTRINE. The doctrine is about Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Just as Jesus said to baptize converts in “the NAME of the FATHER, THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT.” You truly have preconceived and erroneous assumptions about the Trinity doctrine. Of course I've truly erred and you are totally correct, please forgive my simple mind. If you had a son named Bob and someone came up to you or referred to you as 'sharingtheriches' mother of Ben, one would have to assume that either a) you had another child named Ben or b) someone had told that person that Bob and Ben are the same person. No it doesn't have to be written in the doctrine its fruits are in what is lived out in the people. Quote from a site where questions are asked about the Catholic Faith: “ Clarification for Non-catholics: While we love our Blessed Mother very much, we catholics do not consider her part of the Trinity. She is often described as the “neck” of the Body of Christ (which we are all members) and is not part of the Godhead. Mary acts as the bridge between God and believers and that is why it is her mission to lead all of her children to her son. She accepted this Universal Motherhood at the Cross when Jesus gave her to us through St. John.” Btw, I don’t behold to the reverence of Mary either but I don’t think erroneously thinking she’s part of the Holy Trinity that is biblical should be allowed to go unaddressed.
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Post by nathan on Dec 8, 2019 23:45:28 GMT -5
ummm i seem to remember someone somewhere saying that mary was part of the trinity in some of the RCC world... Trinity means 3 not 4. I seem to recall that you believe in the Trinity and Nathan certainly does. Have you ever seen Mary included in it? Trinity/Triune God is 3... God the Father, Christ/God our Savior, and Holy Spirit. That is why, the early days workers did NOT include MARY the mother of Jesus and put her on the same LEVEL of the Godhead to be worshipped on Sunday morning meetings! MARY is human like the rest of us humans and she was a Sinner like us and needed the Blood of Jesus the Lamb of God to SAVE her soul. The TRINITY doctrine got mangled up so BAD, even the workers in 1950's got things all mixed up themselves, they became anti-Trinity and Jesus is NOT God, themselves and the friends followed them hook, line and sinker and became anti-Christ for believing in the workers bad teachings.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 23:47:30 GMT -5
ummm i seem to remember someone somewhere saying that mary was part of the trinity in some of the RCC world... Trinity means 3 not 4. I seem to recall that you believe in the Trinity and Nathan certainly does. Have you ever seen Mary included in it? no i have not....that still doesn't answer my post though, who said it?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 23:49:16 GMT -5
ummm i seem to remember someone somewhere saying that mary was part of the trinity in some of the RCC world... It wouldn’t be a Trinity. well someone said it but maybe it wasn't here?
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 8, 2019 23:55:18 GMT -5
It wouldn’t be a Trinity. well someone said it but maybe it wasn't here? Howitis has been pretty sure that Mary is part of the Trinity in the Catholic Faith. But she/he is totally erred on that point. The Baptist believe the Trinity and no praying to Mary is ever heard of or advised in the Baptist church. It’s a preconceived erroneous judgment or assumption just because SOME Catholics pray to Mary that it has to do with the Trinity. That’s unreasonable. Might as well pin the sprinkling onto the Trinity or the baptism of infants. Which would not be biblical whereas the Holy Trinity of the Father, his Son and the Holy Spirit is biblical.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 9, 2019 0:01:12 GMT -5
Wally, I’ve heard the workers say pretty much the same thing about the Trinity and that’s the reason they don’t teach it. But it just shows how ignorant they are about what the Trinity is even in the Catholic Church. It just shows a passing down of someone’s erroneous assumption about the Catholics without actually knowing the reality of what they were saying.
This is the reason Pope Francis said they were stopping the praying to Mary, because it was so offensive to so many non-Catholics. It’s an attempt to make the Catholic Faith the universal one faith of the world.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 0:06:23 GMT -5
well someone said it but maybe it wasn't here? Howitis has been pretty sure that Mary is part of the Trinity in the Catholic Faith. But she/he is totally erred on that point. The Baptist believe the Trinity and no praying to Mary is ever heard of or advised in the Baptist church. It’s a preconceived erroneous judgment or assumption just because SOME Catholics pray to Mary that it has to do with the Trinity. That’s unreasonable. Might as well pin the sprinkling onto the Trinity or the baptism of infants. Which would not be biblical whereas the Holy Trinity of the Father, his Son and the Holy Spirit is biblical. ah ha i think i found it....wasn't the RCC it was islam and a small sect of christians in arabia.... bible.ca/islam/islam-bible-koran-errors-catholic-mariolatry-trinity-father-son-mary.htm
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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 9, 2019 0:09:04 GMT -5
ummm i seem to remember someone somewhere saying that mary was part of the trinity in some of the RCC world... From questions about Catholic Faith: “Clarification for Non-catholics: While we love our Blessed Mother very much, we catholics do not consider her part of the Trinity. She is often described as the “neck” of the Body of Christ (which we are all members) and is not part of the Godhead. Mary acts as the bridge between God and believers and that is why it is her mission to lead all of her children to her son. She accepted this Universal Motherhood at the Cross when Jesus gave her to us through St. John.” I often wondered what explanation the RC gave for their veneration of Mary, -since god & Jesus were both male.
3I felt that they were just handing women a kind of "sop" as a conciliatory gesture to make women feel included while the men made all the rules that control women's lives.
Because, -control they certainly did!
They are losing that control . The small concessions they are having to make now does not mean they are ever going to make great changes in power because the RC whole structure is built on a hierarchy of power.
It would be nearly impossible for them re-construct that into something more level.
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Post by howitis on Dec 9, 2019 0:33:17 GMT -5
well someone said it but maybe it wasn't here? Howitis has been pretty sure that Mary is part of the Trinity in the Catholic Faith. But she/he is totally erred on that point. The Baptist believe the Trinity and no praying to Mary is ever heard of or advised in the Baptist church. It’s a preconceived erroneous judgment or assumption just because SOME Catholics pray to Mary that it has to do with the Trinity. That’s unreasonable. Might as well pin the sprinkling onto the Trinity or the baptism of infants. Which would not be biblical whereas the Holy Trinity of the Father, his Son and the Holy Spirit is biblical. Please point me to where I have stated Mary is part of the Trinity
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Post by howitis on Dec 9, 2019 0:34:37 GMT -5
Of course I've truly erred and you are totally correct, please forgive my simple mind. If you had a son named Bob and someone came up to you or referred to you as 'sharingtheriches' mother of Ben, one would have to assume that either a) you had another child named Ben or b) someone had told that person that Bob and Ben are the same person. No it doesn't have to be written in the doctrine its fruits are in what is lived out in the people. Quote from a site where questions are asked about the Catholic Faith: “ Clarification for Non-catholics: While we love our Blessed Mother very much, we catholics do not consider her part of the Trinity. She is often described as the “neck” of the Body of Christ (which we are all members) and is not part of the Godhead. Mary acts as the bridge between God and believers and that is why it is her mission to lead all of her children to her son. She accepted this Universal Motherhood at the Cross when Jesus gave her to us through St. John.” Btw, I don’t behold to the reverence of Mary either but I don’t think erroneously thinking she’s part of the Holy Trinity that is biblical should be allowed to go unaddressed. Again point me to where I state Mary is part of the trinity
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 9, 2019 0:59:37 GMT -5
Again your assumption the “Trinity” prays to Mary is clearly off base. There is NO MENTION OF MARY IN THE TRINITY DOCTRINE. The doctrine is about Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Just as Jesus said to baptize converts in “the NAME of the FATHER, THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT.” You truly have preconceived and erroneous assumptions about the Trinity doctrine. ummm i seem to remember someone somewhere saying that mary was part of the trinity in some of the RCC world... Until about the 4th or 5th century is was considered blasphemy in the Roman church to assign any reverence to Mary. They finally gave in to the insistence of the Pagan converts and allowed the titles "Mother of God", "Queen of Heaven", and a whole lot of others. They also started letting people pray to her.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Dec 9, 2019 1:30:28 GMT -5
ummm i seem to remember someone somewhere saying that mary was part of the trinity in some of the RCC world... Until about the 4th or 5th century is was considered blasphemy in the Roman church to assign any reverence to Mary. They finally gave in to the insistence of the Pagan converts and allowed the titles "Mother of God", "Queen of Heaven", and a whole lot of others. They also started letting people pray to her. The reality is the pagans just changed from worshipping one pagan god to another pagan god. Happens all the time down through the ages. The current one seems to have a bit of staying power.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 9, 2019 1:35:50 GMT -5
Howitis has been pretty sure that Mary is part of the Trinity in the Catholic Faith. But she/he is totally erred on that point. The Baptist believe the Trinity and no praying to Mary is ever heard of or advised in the Baptist church. It’s a preconceived erroneous judgment or assumption just because SOME Catholics pray to Mary that it has to do with the Trinity. That’s unreasonable. Might as well pin the sprinkling onto the Trinity or the baptism of infants. Which would not be biblical whereas the Holy Trinity of the Father, his Son and the Holy Spirit is biblical. Please point me to where I have stated Mary is part of the Trinity I’m not going back over your posts to point it out but the word triggered your dislike for it because the Catholics Trinity somehow got confused in your mind with their praying to Mary. I can’t answer how that happened inly you can. But don’t pop up with praying to Mary when we discuss the Trinity because I know no one who believes the Trinity on TMB that prays to Mary or believes Mary is part of the Trinity or that the Bible teaches us to pray to Mary. Be assured the Trinity is the Father, His Son and the Holy Spirit.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 9, 2019 1:41:15 GMT -5
Until about the 4th or 5th century is was considered blasphemy in the Roman church to assign any reverence to Mary. They finally gave in to the insistence of the Pagan converts and allowed the titles "Mother of God", "Queen of Heaven", and a whole lot of others. They also started letting people pray to her. The reality is the pagans just changed from worshipping one pagan god to another pagan god. Happens all the time down through the ages. The current one seems to have a bit of staying power. What it seems to me that down through the ages people have been conscious of a greater power, but they have had little knowledge of that greater power, Until God chose the nation of Israel for his way of proclaiming his glory to all the world. Then after Messiah came and God’s kingdom was opened to include many Gentiles, God then has two ways to show his glory in the face of the earth. Those two ways will unite when Jesus returns in his second coming.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Dec 9, 2019 1:43:14 GMT -5
The reality is the pagans just changed from worshipping one pagan god to another pagan god. Happens all the time down through the ages. The current one seems to have a bit of staying power. What it seems to me that down through the ages people have been conscious of a greater power, but they have had little knowledge of that greater power, Until God chose the nation of Israel for his way of proclaiming his glory to all the world. Then after Messiah came and God’s kingdom was opened to include many Gentiles, God then has two ways to show his glory in the face of the earth. Those two ways will unite when Jesus returns in his second coming. That's god of the gaps stuff.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 9, 2019 1:45:44 GMT -5
What it seems to me that down through the ages people have been conscious of a greater power, but they have had little knowledge of that greater power, Until God chose the nation of Israel for his way of proclaiming his glory to all the world. Then after Messiah came and God’s kingdom was opened to include many Gentiles, God then has two ways to show his glory in the face of the earth. Those two ways will unite when Jesus returns in his second coming. That's god of the gaps stuff. Only as you see it.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 9, 2019 1:53:14 GMT -5
The reality is the pagans just changed from worshipping one pagan god to another pagan god. Happens all the time down through the ages. The current one seems to have a bit of staying power. What it seems to me that down through the ages people have been conscious of a greater power, but they have had little knowledge of that greater power, Until God chose the nation of Israel for his way of proclaiming his glory to all the world. Then after Messiah came and God’s kingdom was opened to include many Gentiles, God then has two ways to show his glory in the face of the earth. Those two ways will unite when Jesus returns in his second coming. Well, that's the story of the Christian messiah -- thanks to the Roman Army. But other messiah's have had the same reputation in the past.
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Post by howitis on Dec 9, 2019 2:09:26 GMT -5
Please point me to where I have stated Mary is part of the Trinity I’m not going back over your posts to point it out but the word triggered your dislike for it because the Catholics Trinity somehow got confused in your mind with their praying to Mary. I can’t answer how that happened inly you can. But don’t pop up with praying to Mary when we discuss the Trinity because I know no one who believes the Trinity on TMB that prays to Mary or believes Mary is part of the Trinity or that the Bible teaches us to pray to Mary. Be assured the Trinity is the Father, His Son and the Holy Spirit. Oh deary me I am erroneous, mistaken, I have made a typical 2x2's response, I have made superimposed, implanted assumptions, I have assumed, and apparently have said that Mary is part of the so called trinity....yet when asked where I have said that, we cant be bothered to state your proof....now I'm not to pop up and say anything about praying to Mary when the trinity is mentioned, because no one on here believes or does that......so here we go again unless we agree with you we best not post, point taken. You are entirely correct once again!!
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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 9, 2019 2:12:06 GMT -5
The reality is the pagans just changed from worshipping one pagan god to another pagan god. Happens all the time down through the ages. The current one seems to have a bit of staying power. What it seems to me that down through the ages people have been conscious of a greater power, but they have had little knowledge of that greater power, Until God chose the nation of Israel for his way of proclaiming his glory to all the world. Then after Messiah came and God’s kingdom was opened to include many Gentiles, God then has two ways to show his glory in the face of the earth. Those two ways will unite when Jesus returns in his second coming. For now. - But let another 2000 years come along and when the "Judeo-Christian" prophecies fail to come to pass, -some other belief will take it's place.
It has been so since mankind begin to think & wonder about why things are as they are.
No doubt what ever it is, it will take on parts of Christian doctrine, just as Christianity has done with paganism.
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Post by mountain on Dec 9, 2019 4:12:25 GMT -5
ummm i seem to remember someone somewhere saying that mary was part of the trinity in some of the RCC world... It wouldn’t be a Trinity. But she is the mother of God! Whether you are Catholic, Protestant or from another persuasion of mainstream Christianity, by giving birth to the so called God the Son, Mary must surely be the mother of God, or at least one third part of God. So why is she not considered part of the trinity or a quadrinity? Perhaps that would make her the Mother of all lies!
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