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Post by jetmech on Nov 15, 2019 13:01:29 GMT -5
Wasn't it Jesus who said " ... If you want to be whole ... sell all that you have, give the proceeds to the poor, then follow me..."
Is this still true? Does one still have to do this to ensure a place is heaven, or can someone who never sells what they have nor do they give to the poor, could they still go to heaven? Is there a Bible reference for this?
I give to the poor. I do not sell all I have then give the money to the poor; but, I do give to and help the poor. Can I still 'win the race,'so to speak, and get into heaven?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2019 14:30:35 GMT -5
that was really meant for those who would preach the gospel full time....
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Post by Annan on Nov 15, 2019 14:49:32 GMT -5
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Post by snow on Nov 15, 2019 14:56:11 GMT -5
It makes no sense to sell everything and give it to the poor. Then you just put yourself into a situation where you are then 'the poor' and everyone else has to support you. It makes more sense to be successful and then you have more money to share with others that need it. Joining the 'poor' ranks just makes one more poor person in need of help.
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Post by nathan on Nov 15, 2019 16:11:02 GMT -5
Wasn't it Jesus who said " ... If you want to be whole ... sell all that you have, give the proceeds to the poor, then follow me..." Is this still true? Does one still have to do this to ensure a place is heaven, or can someone who never sells what they have nor do they give to the poor, could they still go to heaven? Is there a Bible reference for this? I give to the poor. I do not sell all I have then give the money to the poor; but, I do give to and help the poor. Can I still 'win the race,'so to speak, and get into heaven? *** When people don't understand Jesus New Testament teachings and Two main callings to serve God, they can get into a lot of trouble: Two callings in the New Testament read Romans 1:1-2. 1 calling... The apostles/workers... Preachers, evangelists, pastors, teachers, and missionaries... Are to SELL ALL to dedicate their whole life in Jesus New testament ministry and to care for God's people and others.. Jesus told the apostles, "Seek ye first the kingdom of God and all the natural things shall be given unto you." such as clothes, foods, homes to stay, money to spend from their journey. 2 calling: the saints/friends or their converts church elders, married and singles are to have jobs, making provision for their own families, themselves and making all of the provision, taken cares for those in the ministry.... AND Witnessing, sharing the gospel with people who they come in contact with at work, families, friends, neighbors, or whoever and so on.
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Post by blacksheep on Nov 16, 2019 8:55:56 GMT -5
Don't forget to buy a sword. ....
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Post by nathan on Nov 16, 2019 9:44:13 GMT -5
Wasn't it Jesus who said " ... If you want to be whole ... sell all that you have, give the proceeds to the poor, then follow me..." Is this still true? Does one still have to do this to ensure a place is heaven, or can someone who never sells what they have nor do they give to the poor, could they still go to heaven? Is there a Bible reference for this? I give to the poor. I do not sell all I have then give the money to the poor; but, I do give to and help the poor. Can I still 'win the race,'so to speak, and get into heaven? You should read this particular account. Matt 19:16+ He was speaking to a man that was quite pleased with himself and his self righteousness and perfection in keeping the law. Jesus did not require that the man (or us) to sell everything as we don't read of him requiring his other disciples to sell their possessions, but this man was pleased in his personal accomplishments. If we (or this man) think we can find perfection/salvation in our own efforts yet still hanging on to a bunch of stuff are we really perfect? It says this man went away sad because he had much. It makes me think that Jesus knew the true heart of the man and perhaps the man's attitude in the first place was a little sassy in his question. Or I could be wrong! You read it and decide. Matthew 19:27-29 Then answered Peter and said unto Jesus, "Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?" And Jesus said unto them, " Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life."
~~ The rich man was a very good and upright man, a perfect candidate for the work/ministry so Jesus offered him a place in the ministry. In Matthew 10 and Luke 10 Jesus sent out the 12 and 70 as his messengers/ministers of the gospel but 82 men were NOT enough to go into all the world for the next 2000 yrs plus or to the time of His 2nd coming. Jesus and the Holy Spirt NEED to SEND forth more men and women into the ministry for the next 2000 yrs plus.
Jesus said in Matthew 24:13-14 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
We read in Acts 1 Matthias replaced Judas as an apostle. We also read the resurrected Jesus and the Holy Spirit sent out Paul and Barnabas, Silas, Timothy, Luke, Mark, Apollo and others in Acts 11-19. We read in Paul's epistles that women were sent out in the ministry also.
Workers/preachers to SELL ALL is NOT William Irvine invention or idea. The Vaudois/Waldenses and those like them had followed and obeyed Jesus apostles/workers to SELL ALL instruction for 1800 yrs since the time of Jesus. The Faith Mission workers in 1800s SOLD ALL, William Irvine, an ex-Faith Mission preacher and the 2x2 workers just followed/copied the Faith Mission for the ministers to SELL to and that is according to Jesus had taught his apostles.
You can read the Vaudois/Waldenses history on their apostles/workers of SELLING ALL and their followers NOT to SELL ALL but to have jobs, homes so they could provide for those in the ministry. Their history and doctrines as Jesus had commanded from Matthew 19. chapter V.
Title: The Pilgrim Church Author: E. H. Broadbent
Chapter V history of the Vaudois/Waldenses
Date first posted: July 2010 gutenberg.net.au/ebooks10/1000351h.html
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 16, 2019 15:43:02 GMT -5
nathan , can you please repost everything in a different font color? Maybe several colors. And fewer words too. Thanks. mr42, Good luck with that!
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Post by nathan on Nov 16, 2019 16:32:41 GMT -5
nathan, can you please repost everything in a different font color? Maybe several colors. And fewer words too. Thanks. ** No, the red words are mine and Jesus and others in black words so you and the readers can see the difference who is speaking/writing so, you don't get all confused and get things mixed up. I try to make it easy for you folks when I'm writing at home. When I am posting At work all you get is ONE color BLACK!
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Post by openingact34 on Nov 16, 2019 18:49:23 GMT -5
nathan , can you please repost everything in a different font color? Maybe several colors. And fewer words too. Thanks. ** No, the red words are mine and Jesus and others in black words so you and the readers can see the difference who is speaking/writing so, you don't get all confused and get things mixed up. I try to make it easy for you folks when I writing at home. When I am posting At work all you get is ONE color BLACK! Foxes have holes, and birds have their nests, but Jesus doesn't even get his own font color.
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Post by nathan on Nov 16, 2019 21:03:49 GMT -5
nathan, what I like the most is that you know more and better. And you add emphasis with bold face font and color. Awesome! Now speaking of confused and mixed up. Lovely stuff! Seriously though, never feel that I am waiting for you to respond to anything I write. It is absolutely okay to ignore anything I write. You have my permission! ** I hope you don't get offended, we can learn by reading each others ideas, opinion, and understanding. You guys and gals on TMB make me THINK! And find out the answers for myself. I am sorry, if I had offend you. I just want to share what I have learned.
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Post by nathan on Nov 16, 2019 21:07:02 GMT -5
** No, the red words are mine and Jesus and others in black words so you and the readers can see the difference who is speaking/writing so, you don't get all confused and get things mixed up. I try to make it easy for you folks when I writing at home. When I am posting At work all you get is ONE color BLACK! Foxes have holes, and birds have their nests, but Jesus doesn't even get his own font color. ** Jesus words are written in RED color in my Bible So, I just want to follow His example.
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Post by snow on Nov 17, 2019 11:53:19 GMT -5
Foxes have holes, and birds have their nests, but Jesus doesn't even get his own font color. ** Jesus words are written in RED color in my Bible So, I just want to follow His example. In that case, you need to make Jesus words in red and your's in black. What you just posted says you do it the opposite. Jesus in black and your's in red. Just to be consistent and not make it confusing of course.
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Post by nathan on Nov 17, 2019 22:20:07 GMT -5
** Jesus words are written in RED color in my Bible So, I just want to follow His example. In that case, you need to make Jesus words in red and your's in black. What you just posted says you do it the opposite. Jesus in black and your's in red. Just to be consistent and not make it confusing of course. I like changes. It's easy for me to find my posts on here.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Nov 18, 2019 12:27:43 GMT -5
Wasn't it Jesus who said " ... If you want to be whole ... sell all that you have, give the proceeds to the poor, then follow me..." Is this still true? Does one still have to do this to ensure a place is heaven, or can someone who never sells what they have nor do they give to the poor, could they still go to heaven? Is there a Bible reference for this? I give to the poor. I do not sell all I have then give the money to the poor; but, I do give to and help the poor. Can I still 'win the race,'so to speak, and get into heaven? That was to a man who’d called Jesus “good Master”, he wasn’t recognizing Jesus as the Messiah nor the Saviour; but he asked what @goid thing” he could do that he “MIGHT HAVE ETERNAL LIFE” . So this wasn’t about the ministry. This was about doing “good” to have eternal life. Jesus told him to obey the commandments, but the man said he’d already been doing that. Then he asked “WHAT LACK I YET?” He knew he wasn’t saved. Jesus went in to say “IF THOU WILT BE PERFECT, go and sell that thou hast and give to the poor. And thou shalt have treasure in heaven. AND COME FOLLIW ME. This IS NOT ABOUT THE MINISTRY , this is about salvation. In those days, wealth wasn’t counted as much by availability cash but “possessions”. For example, for those who had cattle, the richer ones had more cattle then others. So it says this man went away sorrowing for he had great possessions. He wasn’t willing to part with the world’s goods that made him rich in order to “follow Jesus.” For Jesus had not only advised him to sell that which held his time, affections and attention; but to come and “follow me.” In those days it was necessary not to have so much cares of the worlds’ goods in order to follow Jesus because it takes time to take care of those things. Now days people have to work to earn bread and hearth. But to be intent more on gaining pisssesions is still detrimental to following Hesus because those things take your time and attention away from following Hesus. Jesus understands that life must be sustained but it doesn’t have to be an obsession.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Nov 18, 2019 12:33:46 GMT -5
It makes no sense to sell everything and give it to the poor. Then you just put yourself into a situation where you are then 'the poor' and everyone else has to support you. It makes more sense to be successful and then you have more money to share with others that need it. Joining the 'poor' ranks just makes one more poor person in need of help. BTW, Jesus didn’t say sell “all”. He said go sell that thou hast... to me it just means, the man didn’t have ready cash to give to help the poor, he had great possessions so in order to help the poor, he’d need to seek of that which he did have to give to the poor. 2x2s have used this for the ministry over and over again and it’s not about the ministry at all. It’s about eternal life.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2019 15:42:52 GMT -5
It makes no sense to sell everything and give it to the poor. Then you just put yourself into a situation where you are then 'the poor' and everyone else has to support you. It makes more sense to be successful and then you have more money to share with others that need it. Joining the 'poor' ranks just makes one more poor person in need of help. BTW, Jesus didn’t say sell “all”. He said go sell that thou hast... to me it just means, the man didn’t have ready cash to give to help the poor, he had great possessions so in order to help the poor, he’d need to seek of that which he did have to give to the poor. 2x2s have used this for the ministry over and over again and it’s not about the ministry at all. It’s about eternal life. if its not about the ministry and is about eternal life then you best get to selling all you have right quick....
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Post by sharingtheriches on Nov 18, 2019 16:12:51 GMT -5
BTW, Jesus didn’t say sell “all”. He said go sell that thou hast... to me it just means, the man didn’t have ready cash to give to help the poor, he had great possessions so in order to help the poor, he’d need to seek of that which he did have to give to the poor. 2x2s have used this for the ministry over and over again and it’s not about the ministry at all. It’s about eternal life. if its not about the ministry and is about eternal life then you best get to selling all you have right quick.... He didn’t say sell “all” that you have. I have little that any would want, Wally. I’m barely eking by. But that’s been okay because it’s less to worry about! The man asked about eternal life NOT being an apostle.
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Post by Annan on Nov 18, 2019 16:18:30 GMT -5
The man asked about eternal life NOT being an apostle. BINGO!
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Post by chuck on Nov 18, 2019 18:21:07 GMT -5
if its not about the ministry and is about eternal life then you best get to selling all you have right quick.... He didn’t say sell “all” that you have. I have little that any would want, Wally. I’m barely eking by. But that’s been okay because it’s less to worry about! The man asked about eternal life NOT being an apostle. If the rich mans heart was in the right place he would have no need to sell anything!. He would be still be rich in flesh.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Nov 18, 2019 19:07:12 GMT -5
He didn’t say sell “all” that you have. I have little that any would want, Wally. I’m barely eking by. But that’s been okay because it’s less to worry about! The man asked about eternal life NOT being an apostle. If the rich mans heart was in the right place he would have no need to sell anything!. He would be still be rich in flesh. The condition of his heart was evident by his first words. He didn’t recognize Jesus as the Messiah. Of course, his Apostles didn’t recognize him as God's Saviour either until the time in the boat when the winds and the waves were famed by Jesus. They knew the Psalms that were sung in the Hewish temple and they’d learned only God could calm the stormy tempest.
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Post by Dennis J on Nov 18, 2019 19:14:09 GMT -5
Once having sold all, then they could garner as much as possible? Including the right to excommunicate those whom they wish? It must be so, for that is what has happened, in binding men/women with heavy burdens, caring not one whit for their souls by never once interceding for such an excommunicate over decades of life. Every current worker found in such condition is accountable for the lot of others.
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Post by nathan on Nov 18, 2019 19:19:44 GMT -5
BTW, Jesus didn’t say sell “all”. He said go sell that thou hast... to me it just means, the man didn’t have ready cash to give to help the poor, he had great possessions so in order to help the poor, he’d need to seek of that which he did have to give to the poor. 2x2s have used this for the ministry over and over again and it’s not about the ministry at all. It’s about eternal life. if its not about the ministry and is about eternal life then you best get to selling all you have right quick.... ** Amen, Wally Jesus told the 12 apostles who left their homes and families shall gain 100 folds, gain/stayed in 100 homes of their converts, gain 100 brothers, sisters, fathers and mothers and so on. The rich man did not want to let go off his earthly riches and give it to the poor and go in the ministry. Well, after death he couldn't take a single coin with him to the grave, He LEFT ALL behind at the end of his life. Jesus told the 12 apostles and all who sold ALL through the centuries for Jesus sake so they could share/preaching the gospel freely with others. The apostles laid up their treasures in heaven, where moths, rust could NOT destroy it and the thieves could NOT break in to steal it. Jesus told the 12 shall sits on 12 thrones and will judge the 12 tribes of Israel.
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Post by nathan on Nov 18, 2019 19:48:24 GMT -5
The man asked about eternal life NOT being an apostle. BINGO! ** The RICH man asked Jesus a simple question and he was a good candidate as an apostle, upright and a man who had good knowledge of the scriptures like Paul. When I get home I will show you a historical documents where it talks about Jesus offered the RICH man a place in the MINISTRY and many apostles through the centuries understood it clearly. Those who entered Jesus apostolic ministry understood Matthew 19 very clearly and use that example and Jesus who SOLD ALL and went forth to preach as the Pattern for ALL married and unmarried apostles to come until Jesus returns.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2019 20:00:25 GMT -5
if its not about the ministry and is about eternal life then you best get to selling all you have right quick.... He didn’t say sell “all” that you have. I have little that any would want, Wally. I’m barely eking by. But that’s been okay because it’s less to worry about! The man asked about eternal life NOT being an apostle. in his case it was his lot to be an apostle he rejected that and went his own way...believe, OBEY and bear fruit are all key components of salvation
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Post by sharingtheriches on Nov 18, 2019 20:04:55 GMT -5
He didn’t say sell “all” that you have. I have little that any would want, Wally. I’m barely eking by. But that’s been okay because it’s less to worry about! The man asked about eternal life NOT being an apostle. in his case it was his lot to be an apostle he rejected that and went his own way...believe, OBEY and bear fruit are all key components of salvation No, Wally, the whole parable was about rich men having a hard time entering into salvation. That’s all it was.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2019 20:06:41 GMT -5
in his case it was his lot to be an apostle he rejected that and went his own way...believe, OBEY and bear fruit are all key components of salvation No, Wally, the whole parable was about rich men having a hard time entering into salvation. That’s all it was. which he would have gotten had he just obeyed....
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Post by sharingtheriches on Nov 18, 2019 21:03:08 GMT -5
No, Wally, the whole parable was about rich men having a hard time entering into salvation. That’s all it was. which he would have gotten had he just obeyed.... Yes, all the way to Jesus’ crucifixion where he’d learned just like the rest where salvation comes from!
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