|
Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 5, 2019 12:11:12 GMT -5
I don’t like the word Trinity either. I very seldom use it. The Trinity concept from RCC tends to make people say 3 gods. But when you understand that the Father begat his only begotten Son before the world ever became, all on his own. Then you realize there could be no other genetic/spiritual makeup of the Son but God. His appearance on earth was a necessity to come in human form so that he could die being lifted up because his spirit was an eternal spirit and could not die. God cannot die, he it is that only is eternal from everlasting to everlasting. So Jesus was given a fetal body so that he could keep his human body pure in order his sacrifice would be as a lamb without blemish. But I fully believe what the Bible says that the Father said to his Son, “ Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever...”. Hebs1:8 “In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was God.” John 1:1 “The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. And we saw his majesty.” John 1:14, II Peter 1:14 “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self WITH THE GLORY I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE WORLD EVER WAS.” John 17:5 Wherefore when he cometh INTO the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldst not, BUT A BODY HAS THOU PREPARED ME. Hebrews 10:5 (Jesus) Whom hath made us kings and priests unto OUR GOD AND HIS FATHER.” Revelations 1:6 Feeling the Holy Spirit in another person might not be possible if it’s such a personal relationship. The most important part is they feel the Holy Spirit. In the science world god making himself split to make Jesus sounds very like the origin of life on earth. A single cell organism finally splitting to become a multi cell organism. But for God to 'begat' Jesus all by himself as you say, that would mean that God has existed longer than Jesus. So how can Jesus have always existed? That makes no sense. I don’t generally say that. I say as the Bible indicates as in Jesus’ prayer in John 17; “before the world became(began). But in defense if his eternal being, as the Father begat him alone, he would have been everlasting, as the Father is everlasting. How he begat him or when is not known. Bob mentioned cloning, and it would seem that’s a close example, however the a Father and the Son still are ine. The Father didn’t separate of himself to beget his Son. So maybe your example of one cell becoming two is close as well. As I read your thoughts about it, I just had a quick thought that we can see how God created things around and in us so it would come to reason he used some of that wisdom for himself.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Dec 5, 2019 13:38:16 GMT -5
In the science world god making himself split to make Jesus sounds very like the origin of life on earth. A single cell organism finally splitting to become a multi cell organism. But for God to 'begat' Jesus all by himself as you say, that would mean that God has existed longer than Jesus. So how can Jesus have always existed? That makes no sense. I don’t generally say that. I say as the Bible indicates as in Jesus’ prayer in John 17; “before the world became(began). But in defense if his eternal being, as the Father begat him alone, he would have been everlasting, as the Father is everlasting. How he begat him or when is not known. Bob mentioned cloning, and it would seem that’s a close example, however the a Father and the Son still are ine. The Father didn’t separate of himself to beget his Son. So maybe your example of one cell becoming two is close as well. As I read your thoughts about it, I just had a quick thought that we can see how God created things around and in us so it would come to reason he used some of that wisdom for himself. I feel as though I should answer this post, but to be completely honest I just don't know where to start. So I will acknowledge your post but at the moment I am rather stumped at how people believe that Jesus has been around forever, if he was begat. That in itself means he is a newer version that the God the father version.
|
|
|
Post by reborn on Dec 5, 2019 13:48:00 GMT -5
I don’t generally say that. I say as the Bible indicates as in Jesus’ prayer in John 17; “before the world became(began). But in defense if his eternal being, as the Father begat him alone, he would have been everlasting, as the Father is everlasting. How he begat him or when is not known. Bob mentioned cloning, and it would seem that’s a close example, however the a Father and the Son still are ine. The Father didn’t separate of himself to beget his Son. So maybe your example of one cell becoming two is close as well. As I read your thoughts about it, I just had a quick thought that we can see how God created things around and in us so it would come to reason he used some of that wisdom for himself. I feel as though I should answer this post, but to be completely honest I just don't know where to start. So I will acknowledge your post but at the moment I am rather stumped at how people believe that Jesus has been around forever, if he was begat. That in itself means he is a newer version that the God the father version. God goes beyond for you. If you would like him to give to you a revelation about himself so that you have understanding- seek his face diligently.
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 5, 2019 14:11:58 GMT -5
I don’t generally say that. I say as the Bible indicates as in Jesus’ prayer in John 17; “before the world became(began). But in defense if his eternal being, as the Father begat him alone, he would have been everlasting, as the Father is everlasting. How he begat him or when is not known. Bob mentioned cloning, and it would seem that’s a close example, however the a Father and the Son still are ine. The Father didn’t separate of himself to beget his Son. So maybe your example of one cell becoming two is close as well. As I read your thoughts about it, I just had a quick thought that we can see how God created things around and in us so it would come to reason he used some of that wisdom for himself. I feel as though I should answer this post, but to be completely honest I just don't know where to start. So I will acknowledge your post but at the moment I am rather stumped at how people believe that Jesus has been around forever, if he was begat. That in itself means he is a newer version that the God the father version. It’s because he was begotten at some time before the world ever became. Thus that is eternal to us because life as we know it only began at creation, however we believed that happened. You’re right in that the Father pre-existed his Son or he wouldn’t be his Son. And the Bible is definite in declaring him as the only begotten Son of the Father. And in Isaiah it says unto us a Son was given, indicating that Son was alive even when Isaiah prophesied the coming event. In Isaiah it says that he tells of being alone in the mountains when he stretched the heavens or what we call our sky and created all things. So again we know he existed before the NT. The Holy Ghost never impregnated Mary, but when he overshadowed her he was moving the eternal spirit that was known as God’s only begotten Son into the fetus God had prepared for him in Mary’s womb. Asexual reproduction. We know it happens. Not usuall in humans but in some animals and insects. I thinks it rare even in animals but that’s the only way to explain the appearance of extinct or thought to be extinct breeds of animals. So it wouldn’t be an impossibility for it to come to pass in humans and may well have more then once.
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 5, 2019 14:17:19 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by snow on Dec 5, 2019 15:06:33 GMT -5
Interesting article. What I got from it though is that we have no known humans that have come from an asexual process. However, despite of two ambiguous and inconclusive reports on specialized journals [27], [28], a non-chimeric, clinically normal, human parthenote (i.e., a healthy individual entirely derived from a single parthenogenetic-activated oocyte), has never been reported in the scientific literature [29].The conclusion states that there are some animals where it's been known to happen, but never a human. So it is very unlikely that Jesus is the product of an asexual process unless you want to refer to him as a tumor and I'm sure that's not what you mean. I do think it would be interesting to have the routine WGS process done on all newborns. Conclusion Evolution is a continuous and experimental process without any predetermined paths. It has rendered innumerous plant and animal species able of parthenogenesis, a strategy of reproduction with some special advantages over sexual reproduction in specific circumstances.
Parthenogenetic events in humans (ovarian teratomas and chimeras), which are recurrent in some women [45], could be interpreted as experiments of nature, which could eventually render our species able of parthenogenesis in the future. Conversely, evolution may have already reached that point and we just have not realized it. The establishment of WGS as a routine practice on every single newborn worldwide will be the ultimate test to this astonishing hypothesis.
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 5, 2019 17:09:56 GMT -5
Interesting article. What I got from it though is that we have no known humans that have come from an asexual process. However, despite of two ambiguous and inconclusive reports on specialized journals [27], [28], a non-chimeric, clinically normal, human parthenote (i.e., a healthy individual entirely derived from a single parthenogenetic-activated oocyte), has never been reported in the scientific literature [29].The conclusion states that there are some animals where it's been known to happen, but never a human. So it is very unlikely that Jesus is the product of an asexual process unless you want to refer to him as a tumor and I'm sure that's not what you mean. I do think it would be interesting to have the routine WGS process done on all newborns. Conclusion Evolution is a continuous and experimental process without any predetermined paths. It has rendered innumerous plant and animal species able of parthenogenesis, a strategy of reproduction with some special advantages over sexual reproduction in specific circumstances.
Parthenogenetic events in humans (ovarian teratomas and chimeras), which are recurrent in some women [45], could be interpreted as experiments of nature, which could eventually render our species able of parthenogenesis in the future. Conversely, evolution may have already reached that point and we just have not realized it. The establishment of WGS as a routine practice on every single newborn worldwide will be the ultimate test to this astonishing hypothesis.He did tell of a few cases of pathogenesis. These subjects always present due to some anomalies, rare physical adaptation or something like that. They supposed one pathogenesis had attached itself to a normal embryo but they never proved that. The person in question had some rate anomalies of the blood.
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 5, 2019 17:15:19 GMT -5
I had a teratoma that had seeded down over my ovary and ureter. It’s possible that it may have been a twin or a pathogenesis pregnancy. It had a tiny femur that was removed intact. It would have been about the size of a 4 month gestation baby’s femur. There were other evidences of fetal tissue but they didn’t get them out intact like the femur bone.
So I either encapsulated my twin or a previous fetal tissue. At the time, they thought it was likely my twin. Made me shudder to think, how close to being a Siamese twin that sounded!
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Dec 5, 2019 21:02:42 GMT -5
I had a teratoma that had seeded down over my ovary and ureter. It’s possible that it may have been a twin or a pathogenesis pregnancy. It had a tiny femur that was removed intact. It would have been about the size of a 4 month gestation baby’s femur. There were other evidences of fetal tissue but they didn’t get them out intact like the femur bone. So I either encapsulated my twin or a previous fetal tissue. At the time, they thought it was likely my twin. Made me shudder to think, how close to being a Siamese twin that sounded! yes, horrible thought!
I saw Siamese twins joined at the tops of the heads being prepared for surgery at the University of Illinois, but only for a few days and afterwards never saw them again, but I think that they both survived.
|
|
|
Post by howitis on Dec 6, 2019 16:23:06 GMT -5
So now I'm defending the RCC version of the trinity, which is longer so, except that it is, I have family and friends who are RCC and I know full well how they pray regardless of what the Pope says. As I said before our salvation is totally something personal we can never ever walk another's walk, you may well be concerned, but there are many many good Christians out there who have a depth of understanding and love for God and the word Trinity does not appear in their vocabulary, yet one can feel the Holy Spirit within them. Reconciled as they are to the Father Son and Holy Spirit. I don’t like the word Trinity either. I very seldom use it. The Trinity concept from RCC tends to make people say 3 gods. But when you understand that the Father begat his only begotten Son before the world ever became, all on his own. Then you realize there could be no other genetic/spiritual makeup of the Son but God. His appearance on earth was a necessity to come in human form so that he could die being lifted up because his spirit was an eternal spirit and could not die. God cannot die, he it is that only is eternal from everlasting to everlasting. So Jesus was given a fetal body so that he could keep his human body pure in order his sacrifice would be as a lamb without blemish. But I fully believe what the Bible says that the Father said to his Son, “ Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever...”. Hebs1:8 “In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was God.” John 1:1 “The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. And we saw his majesty.” John 1:14, II Peter 1:14 “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self WITH THE GLORY I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE WORLD EVER WAS.” John 17:5 Wherefore when he cometh INTO the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldst not, BUT A BODY HAS THOU PREPARED ME. Hebrews 10:5 (Jesus) Whom hath made us kings and priests unto OUR GOD AND HIS FATHER.” Revelations 1:6 Feeling the Holy Spirit in another person might not be possible if it’s such a personal relationship. The most important part is they feel the Holy Spirit. If there were no 'feeling' of the Holy Spirit within another where is the spiritual bond, with others? With Christ? With God?
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 6, 2019 17:46:21 GMT -5
I don’t like the word Trinity either. I very seldom use it. The Trinity concept from RCC tends to make people say 3 gods. But when you understand that the Father begat his only begotten Son before the world ever became, all on his own. Then you realize there could be no other genetic/spiritual makeup of the Son but God. His appearance on earth was a necessity to come in human form so that he could die being lifted up because his spirit was an eternal spirit and could not die. God cannot die, he it is that only is eternal from everlasting to everlasting. So Jesus was given a fetal body so that he could keep his human body pure in order his sacrifice would be as a lamb without blemish. But I fully believe what the Bible says that the Father said to his Son, “ Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever...”. Hebs1:8 “In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was God.” John 1:1 “The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. And we saw his majesty.” John 1:14, II Peter 1:14 “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self WITH THE GLORY I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE WORLD EVER WAS.” John 17:5 Wherefore when he cometh INTO the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldst not, BUT A BODY HAS THOU PREPARED ME. Hebrews 10:5 (Jesus) Whom hath made us kings and priests unto OUR GOD AND HIS FATHER.” Revelations 1:6 Feeling the Holy Spirit in another person might not be possible if it’s such a personal relationship. The most important part is they feel the Holy Spirit. If there were no 'feeling' of the Holy Spirit within another where is the spiritual bond, with others? With Christ? With God? Is the “feeling” because: 1). They go to your church? 2). They believe like you that your church is the way to salvation? 3). You’re of acquaintance? 4). You became acquainted because of mutual acquaintance? 5). That because you belong to same church, you’re better then other people? The reason I said that is I ve had some of the most spontaneous fellowships with people I’d never seen. I knew not from where they came. I knew not if they were church affiliated or what church affiliation they were. But in a matter of a few minutes there was a mutual spiritual bond (feeling), in which we quickly were able to discuss or speak about Hesus Christ our Lord and Saviour. One was in the waiting room at a mechanic’s office in a late afternoon just before closing. A black man and a lady from the poor section of town and myself. A most unlikely bond to be group by any social standards. But we felt very sure and safe between us in talking about Jesus Christ. All 3 were sincere. Another time was an insurance agent cane to discuss different health insurance options for me. The insurance talk lasted 5 minutes. Then we discovered a mutual faith in our Lord Jesus Christ . When he left, I felt quite spiritually full and he said it was the best visit he’d had in a long time. A third was a coincidental connection on TMB, we cibnected spiritually right off the bat. It’s an ongoing blessing between us because Hesus Christ is our message and will remain our message. It’s a blessing for me and she says for her. So fully unacquainted folks becoming spiritual blessings in matters of minutes, has to be the work of the Holy Spirit in all.
|
|
|
Post by reborn on Dec 6, 2019 18:13:12 GMT -5
If there were no 'feeling' of the Holy Spirit within another where is the spiritual bond, with others? With Christ? With God? Is the “feeling” because: 1). They go to your church? 2). They believe like you that your church is the way to salvation? 3). You’re of acquaintance? 4). You became acquainted because of mutual acquaintance? 5). That because you belong to same church, you’re better then other people? The reason I said that is I ve had some of the most spontaneous fellowships with people I’d never seen. I knew not from where they came. I knew not if they were church affiliated or what church affiliation they were. But in a matter of a few minutes there was a mutual spiritual bond (feeling), in which we quickly were able to discuss or speak about Hesus Christ our Lord and Saviour. One was in the waiting room at a mechanic’s office in a late afternoon just before closing. A black man and a lady from the poor section of town and myself. A most unlikely bond to be group by any social standards. But we felt very sure and safe between us in talking about Jesus Christ. All 3 were sincere. Another time was an insurance agent cane to discuss different health insurance options for me. The insurance talk lasted 5 minutes. Then we discovered a mutual faith in our Lord Jesus Christ . When he left, I felt quite spiritually full and he said it was the best visit he’d had in a long time. A third was a coincidental connection on TMB, we cibnected spiritually right off the bat. It’s an ongoing blessing between us because Hesus Christ is our message and will remain our message. It’s a blessing for me and she says for her. So fully unacquainted folks becoming spiritual blessings in matters of minutes, has to be the work of the Holy Spirit in all. Amen! The spirit will always greet the spirit! I have found that true as well! I have had sweet fellowship with Hospital Chaplains, patients, etc...
|
|
|
Post by howitis on Dec 7, 2019 15:39:44 GMT -5
If there were no 'feeling' of the Holy Spirit within another where is the spiritual bond, with others? With Christ? With God? Is the “feeling” because: 1). They go to your church? 2). They believe like you that your church is the way to salvation? 3). You’re of acquaintance? 4). You became acquainted because of mutual acquaintance? 5). That because you belong to same church, you’re better then other people? The reason I said that is I ve had some of the most spontaneous fellowships with people I’d never seen. I knew not from where they came. I knew not if they were church affiliated or what church affiliation they were. But in a matter of a few minutes there was a mutual spiritual bond (feeling), in which we quickly were able to discuss or speak about Hesus Christ our Lord and Saviour. One was in the waiting room at a mechanic’s office in a late afternoon just before closing. A black man and a lady from the poor section of town and myself. A most unlikely bond to be group by any social standards. But we felt very sure and safe between us in talking about Jesus Christ. All 3 were sincere. Another time was an insurance agent cane to discuss different health insurance options for me. The insurance talk lasted 5 minutes. Then we discovered a mutual faith in our Lord Jesus Christ . When he left, I felt quite spiritually full and he said it was the best visit he’d had in a long time. A third was a coincidental connection on TMB, we cibnected spiritually right off the bat. It’s an ongoing blessing between us because Hesus Christ is our message and will remain our message. It’s a blessing for me and she says for her. So fully unacquainted folks becoming spiritual blessings in matters of minutes, has to be the work of the Holy Spirit in all. You wrote, " Feeling the Holy Spirit in another person might not be possible if it’s such a personal relationship." Which is why I wrote what I did, it seems to me you have missed my point!! You have then gone on to list a criteria that you must feel applied to me....so sorry but NO to your 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 do you think you are the only person that has spontaneously fellowship due to some superior understanding or revelation? Or is it that you think a person in the church you refer to as '2x2' is devoid of the ability to have spiritual fellowship with those who may not be of the same church? I am so, so grateful that Heaven is open to all, that God is no respecter of persons, that His blessings and love are unconditional and that even a poor wretched being like me He has made Himself known to me.
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 7, 2019 16:03:24 GMT -5
Is the “feeling” because: 1). They go to your church? 2). They believe like you that your church is the way to salvation? 3). You’re of acquaintance? 4). You became acquainted because of mutual acquaintance? 5). That because you belong to same church, you’re better then other people? The reason I said that is I ve had some of the most spontaneous fellowships with people I’d never seen. I knew not from where they came. I knew not if they were church affiliated or what church affiliation they were. But in a matter of a few minutes there was a mutual spiritual bond (feeling), in which we quickly were able to discuss or speak about Hesus Christ our Lord and Saviour. One was in the waiting room at a mechanic’s office in a late afternoon just before closing. A black man and a lady from the poor section of town and myself. A most unlikely bond to be group by any social standards. But we felt very sure and safe between us in talking about Jesus Christ. All 3 were sincere. Another time was an insurance agent cane to discuss different health insurance options for me. The insurance talk lasted 5 minutes. Then we discovered a mutual faith in our Lord Jesus Christ . When he left, I felt quite spiritually full and he said it was the best visit he’d had in a long time. A third was a coincidental connection on TMB, we cibnected spiritually right off the bat. It’s an ongoing blessing between us because Hesus Christ is our message and will remain our message. It’s a blessing for me and she says for her. So fully unacquainted folks becoming spiritual blessings in matters of minutes, has to be the work of the Holy Spirit in all. You wrote, " Feeling the Holy Spirit in another person might not be possible if it’s such a personal relationship." Which is why I wrote what I did, it seems to me you have missed my point!! You have then gone on to list a criteria that you must feel applied to me....so sorry but NO to your 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 do you think you are the only person that has spontaneously fellowship due to some superior understanding or revelation? Or is it that you think a person in the church you refer to as '2x2' is devoid of the ability to have spiritual fellowship with those who may not be of the same church? I am so, so grateful that Heaven is open to all, that God is no respecter of persons, that His blessings and love are unconditional and that even a poor wretched being like me He has made Himself known to me. That was not the point. You were the one who questioned anything to do with the Trinity as being if the Holy Spirit. I just went on to tell you that it was within the Holy Spirit to have fellowship without an expected realm of persons. In no way have I said anything about anyone NOT HAVING the Holy Spirit. I was trying to help you see it was very essential not to be expecting the Holy Spirit in only where you expected or even thought it possible. You were the one who wrote that it was only a personal relationship, etc. my reply was that if it was so personal, that it might not be possible to “feel” the Holy Spirit” in another. Can you not see what Im saying? EDIT: Sure it’s a personal relationship in how it gets there. It’s the amount of faith that God so graciously affords an individual then also how much the Holy Spirit reveals according to that faith which God gives and we have used. But the Bible says that revelations are according to the use of the word and the amount of faith that is in us. But the Holy Spirit is a shy one of the Trinity; he does not seek revealing of himself, for the Bible says he does not speak of himself. It is Christ’s spirit who he seeks to magnify, this is the , “the Father and I will come and dwell within you.”. The concept that Jesus is God is a very rich revelation and it IS THE KEY OF OF KNOWLEDGE the Bible so freely speaks about. God’s Son is the basis of the whole Bible from beginning to end.
|
|
|
Post by nathan on Dec 7, 2019 17:45:01 GMT -5
1) STR wrote: The concept that Jesus is God is a very rich revelation and it IS THE KEY OF OF KNOWLEDGE the Bible so freely speaks about. God’s Son is the basis of the whole Bible from beginning to end.
*** AMEN! Christ/God Jesus is the CENTER of the Universe! Everything is focus and CENTER on Him and God the Father, the most High God over ALL.
The 2x2s are missing so much Knowledge on the Godhead of Christ Jesus. Their lack understanding of Jesus DIVINITY and Godhead stun their spiritual growth in Him. Like having a veil over their face so they can't see Him clearly when many of the workers and friends became anti-Trinity in 1950s.
Once the 2x2s throw away the anti-Trinity veils from their face, they will see Jesus clearly as Christ the LORD God our Savior the Second supreme being of the Godhead/Trinity.
|
|
|
Post by howitis on Dec 7, 2019 22:38:04 GMT -5
You wrote, " Feeling the Holy Spirit in another person might not be possible if it’s such a personal relationship." Which is why I wrote what I did, it seems to me you have missed my point!! You have then gone on to list a criteria that you must feel applied to me....so sorry but NO to your 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 do you think you are the only person that has spontaneously fellowship due to some superior understanding or revelation? Or is it that you think a person in the church you refer to as '2x2' is devoid of the ability to have spiritual fellowship with those who may not be of the same church? I am so, so grateful that Heaven is open to all, that God is no respecter of persons, that His blessings and love are unconditional and that even a poor wretched being like me He has made Himself known to me. That was not the point. You were the one who questioned anything to do with the Trinity as being if the Holy Spirit. I just went on to tell you that it was within the Holy Spirit to have fellowship without an expected realm of persons. In no way have I said anything about anyone NOT HAVING the Holy Spirit. I was trying to help you see it was very essential not to be expecting the Holy Spirit in only where you expected or even thought it possible. You were the one who wrote that it was only a personal relationship, etc. my reply was that if it was so personal, that it might not be possible to “feel” the Holy Spirit” in another. Can you not see what Im saying? EDIT: Sure it’s a personal relationship in how it gets there. It’s the amount of faith that God so graciously affords an individual then also how much the Holy Spirit reveals according to that faith which God gives and we have used. But the Bible says that revelations are according to the use of the word and the amount of faith that is in us. But the Holy Spirit is a shy one of the Trinity; he does not seek revealing of himself, for the Bible says he does not speak of himself. It is Christ’s spirit who he seeks to magnify, this is the , “the Father and I will come and dwell within you.”. The concept that Jesus is God is a very rich revelation and it IS THE KEY OF OF KNOWLEDGE the Bible so freely speaks about. God’s Son is the basis of the whole Bible from beginning to end. We obviously are on very different playing fields, sorry, no that was not what I was questioning at all, I question those who speak of the Trinity, bring into their conversation about people who may have converted to Catholicism when it is known full well that the RCC pray, regardless of what any Pope says, Holy Mary Mother of God!!! Yes I am missing your point and you are missing mine. There is also quite a lot that those that merely believe or are told "Jesus is God" and make no further effort to have a personal relationship with God miss out on. I am not saying you are one of those people, however I have heard the flippant remark by many that "Jesus is God anyway so it doesn't really matter" yes it does matter and so does the thought "if you don't believe in the trinity you are not saved" and "so long as you believe in the trinity you are saved", yet ask many people what it means and you get many, many different responses. The I am right and you are wrong must stop for any of us to have salvation and that matters far more than the trinity.
|
|
|
Post by speak on Dec 7, 2019 23:33:22 GMT -5
That was not the point. You were the one who questioned anything to do with the Trinity as being if the Holy Spirit. I just went on to tell you that it was within the Holy Spirit to have fellowship without an expected realm of persons. In no way have I said anything about anyone NOT HAVING the Holy Spirit. I was trying to help you see it was very essential not to be expecting the Holy Spirit in only where you expected or even thought it possible. You were the one who wrote that it was only a personal relationship, etc. my reply was that if it was so personal, that it might not be possible to “feel” the Holy Spirit” in another. Can you not see what Im saying? EDIT: Sure it’s a personal relationship in how it gets there. It’s the amount of faith that God so graciously affords an individual then also how much the Holy Spirit reveals according to that faith which God gives and we have used. But the Bible says that revelations are according to the use of the word and the amount of faith that is in us. But the Holy Spirit is a shy one of the Trinity; he does not seek revealing of himself, for the Bible says he does not speak of himself. It is Christ’s spirit who he seeks to magnify, this is the , “the Father and I will come and dwell within you.”. The concept that Jesus is God is a very rich revelation and it IS THE KEY OF OF KNOWLEDGE the Bible so freely speaks about. God’s Son is the basis of the whole Bible from beginning to end. We obviously are on very different playing fields, sorry, no that was not what I was questioning at all, I question those who speak of the Trinity, bring into their conversation about people who may have converted to Catholicism when it is known full well that the RCC pray, regardless of what any Pope says, Holy Mary Mother of God!!! Yes I am missing your point and you are missing mine. There is also quite a lot that those that merely believe or are told "Jesus is God" and make no further effort to have a personal relationship with God miss out on. I am not saying you are one of those people, however I have heard the flippant remark by many that "Jesus is God anyway so it doesn't really matter" yes it does matter and so does the thought "if you don't believe in the trinity you are not saved" and "so long as you believe in the trinity you are saved", yet ask many people what it means and you get many, many different responses. The I am right and you are wrong must stop for any of us to have salvation and that matters far more than the trinity. Amen.
|
|
|
Post by Grant on Dec 8, 2019 0:07:55 GMT -5
That was not the point. You were the one who questioned anything to do with the Trinity as being if the Holy Spirit. I just went on to tell you that it was within the Holy Spirit to have fellowship without an expected realm of persons. In no way have I said anything about anyone NOT HAVING the Holy Spirit. I was trying to help you see it was very essential not to be expecting the Holy Spirit in only where you expected or even thought it possible. You were the one who wrote that it was only a personal relationship, etc. my reply was that if it was so personal, that it might not be possible to “feel” the Holy Spirit” in another. Can you not see what Im saying? EDIT: Sure it’s a personal relationship in how it gets there. It’s the amount of faith that God so graciously affords an individual then also how much the Holy Spirit reveals according to that faith which God gives and we have used. But the Bible says that revelations are according to the use of the word and the amount of faith that is in us. But the Holy Spirit is a shy one of the Trinity; he does not seek revealing of himself, for the Bible says he does not speak of himself. It is Christ’s spirit who he seeks to magnify, this is the , “the Father and I will come and dwell within you.”. The concept that Jesus is God is a very rich revelation and it IS THE KEY OF OF KNOWLEDGE the Bible so freely speaks about. God’s Son is the basis of the whole Bible from beginning to end. We obviously are on very different playing fields, sorry, no that was not what I was questioning at all, I question those who speak of the Trinity, bring into their conversation about people who may have converted to Catholicism when it is known full well that the RCC pray, regardless of what any Pope says, Holy Mary Mother of God!!! Yes I am missing your point and you are missing mine. There is also quite a lot that those that merely believe or are told "Jesus is God" and make no further effort to have a personal relationship with God miss out on. I am not saying you are one of those people, however I have heard the flippant remark by many that "Jesus is God anyway so it doesn't really matter" yes it does matter and so does the thought "if you don't believe in the trinity you are not saved" and "so long as you believe in the trinity you are saved", yet ask many people what it means and you get many, many different responses. The I am right and you are wrong must stop for any of us to have salvation and that matters far more than the trinity. Much like the workers saying you must profess through them or you're not saved.
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 8, 2019 0:37:30 GMT -5
That was not the point. You were the one who questioned anything to do with the Trinity as being if the Holy Spirit. I just went on to tell you that it was within the Holy Spirit to have fellowship without an expected realm of persons. In no way have I said anything about anyone NOT HAVING the Holy Spirit. I was trying to help you see it was very essential not to be expecting the Holy Spirit in only where you expected or even thought it possible. You were the one who wrote that it was only a personal relationship, etc. my reply was that if it was so personal, that it might not be possible to “feel” the Holy Spirit” in another. Can you not see what Im saying? EDIT: Sure it’s a personal relationship in how it gets there. It’s the amount of faith that God so graciously affords an individual then also how much the Holy Spirit reveals according to that faith which God gives and we have used. But the Bible says that revelations are according to the use of the word and the amount of faith that is in us. But the Holy Spirit is a shy one of the Trinity; he does not seek revealing of himself, for the Bible says he does not speak of himself. It is Christ’s spirit who he seeks to magnify, this is the , “the Father and I will come and dwell within you.”. The concept that Jesus is God is a very rich revelation and it IS THE KEY OF OF KNOWLEDGE the Bible so freely speaks about. God’s Son is the basis of the whole Bible from beginning to end. We obviously are on very different playing fields, sorry, no that was not what I was questioning at all, I question those who speak of the Trinity, bring into their conversation about people who may have converted to Catholicism when it is known full well that the RCC pray, regardless of what any Pope says, Holy Mary Mother of God!!! Yes I am missing your point and you are missing mine. There is also quite a lot that those that merely believe or are told "Jesus is God" and make no further effort to have a personal relationship with God miss out on. I am not saying you are one of those people, however I have heard the flippant remark by many that "Jesus is God anyway so it doesn't really matter" yes it does matter and so does the thought "if you don't believe in the trinity you are not saved" and "so long as you believe in the trinity you are saved", yet ask many people what it means and you get many, many different responses. The I am right and you are wrong must stop for any of us to have salvation and that matters far more than the trinity. For any to have salvation comes down to I John 5:10-11 He that believeth on THE SON OF GOD hath the witness in himself: he that believeth NOT GOD HATH MADE HIM A LIAR; because he believeth NOT THE RECORD THAT GOD HATH GAVE of HIS SON. And this is the record, that God hath gave to us ETERNAL LIFE and this LIFE IS IN HIS SON(because his Son is eternal). Hebrews 10:5. Wherefore when HE COMETH INTO THE WORLD , he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldst not, but A BODY has thou prepared me. John 17:5. And now, Father, glorify thou ME with THE GLORY WHICH I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE World was.(God’s Son is eternal from before the world was.) Psalm 49:7. None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him: (thus our redeemer has to be more then man).
|
|
|
Post by nathan on Dec 8, 2019 0:46:14 GMT -5
We obviously are on very different playing fields, sorry, no that was not what I was questioning at all, I question those who speak of the Trinity, bring into their conversation about people who may have converted to Catholicism when it is known full well that the RCC pray, regardless of what any Pope says, Holy Mary Mother of God!!! Yes I am missing your point and you are missing mine. There is also quite a lot that those that merely believe or are told "Jesus is God" and make no further effort to have a personal relationship with God miss out on. I am not saying you are one of those people, however I have heard the flippant remark by many that "Jesus is God anyway so it doesn't really matter" yes it does matter and so does the thought "if you don't believe in the trinity you are not saved" and "so long as you believe in the trinity you are saved", yet ask many people what it means and you get many, many different responses. The I am right and you are wrong must stop for any of us to have salvation and that matters far more than the trinity. For any to have salvation comes down to I John 5:10-11 He that believeth on THE SON OF GOD hath the witness in himself: he that believeth NOT GOD HATH MADE HIM A LIAR; because he believeth NOT THE RECORD THAT GOD HATH GAVE of HIS SON. And this is the record, that God hath gave to us ETERNAL LIFE and this LIFE IS IN HIS SON(because his Son is eternal). Hebrews 10:5. Wherefore when HE COMETH INTO THE WORLD , he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldst not, but A BODY has thou prepared me. John 16:5. And now, Father, glorify thou ME with THE GLORY WHICH I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE World was.(God’s Son is eternal from before the world was.) Psalm 49:7. None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him: (thus our redeemer has to be more then man). The 2x2s missed out of Knowledge of the Godhead, when they became anti-Trinity and Jesus is NOT God since 1950s. It stunned their growth spiritually because lack in understanding of the Godhead and their gospel message is diluted or watered down from Christ/God from Eternity who begotten as a man Jesus to die for our sins to Jesus the son of man became the Son of God 2000 yrs ago. So, worship God the Father and NOT the Son.
The early days workers preach a FULL and correct gospel when they taught and believed in the Trinity/Godhead, Christ is God like unto the Father and Holy Spirit. Even they set up the Sunday morning meeting with Worshipping the Godhead/Trinity= God the Father, Christ our Lord God/Savior and Holy Spirit in mind for the friends.
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 8, 2019 0:50:48 GMT -5
howitis: why do you associate anyone who believes in the Trinity concept to be automatically a Catholic or someone who prays to Mary? That’s not a reasonable assumption. To be adverse to the Trinity just because the Catholics believe it or because they pray to Mary doesn’t seem very wise! If one wants to be that radically averse, they need to compose their own bible like SDA do, that way no one can question what you believe or not believe. But naturally you’ll still be called a cult because your savior isn’t God’s eternal Son.
Baptist believe the Trinity. Disciples of Christ believe the Trinity. There are multitudes of non-Catholic people who believe in the Trinity concept because it is biblical.
Besides from salvation’s point of view it makes far more sense that our redeemer has to have been someone far more then a perfect man. Because there’s never been a man who has been able to save multitudes of mankind into eternal life. And there’s been millions of people who have spilled their blood for mankind’s privileges on earth, but it’s never won them eternal life.
Psalms says plainly a man cannot redeem a brother, nor no man pay a ransom to God for him.
So I don’t understand why people not believing that Jesus is God the Son can fully rest in their salvation. Their church affiliation sure won’t save them. Jesus is our only hope for salvation. Our only hope!
|
|
|
Post by nathan on Dec 8, 2019 1:04:34 GMT -5
howitis: why do you associate anyone who believes in the Trinity concept to be automatically a Catholic or someone who prays to Mary? That’s not a reasonable assumption. There are so MANY false teachings, and incorrect belief and interpretation about the TRINITY! That is including the RCC in the 3rd century, the Mormons, JW and now including the 2x2s. The TRINITY is a heresy and Pagan belief. The RCC is a pagan religion so they got the TRINITY belief from them. Or the Trinity is God is the Father, became the Son and the Holy Spirit and they are ONE/being.Baptist believe the Trinity. Disciples of Christ believe the Trinity. There are multitudes of non-Catholic people who believe in the Trinity concept because it is biblical. Besides from salvation’s point of view it makes far more sense that our redeemer has to have been someone far more then a perfect man. Because there’s never been a man who has been able to save multitudes of mankind into eternal life. And there’s been millions of people who have spilled their blood for mankind’s privileges on earth, but it’s never won them eternal life. Psalms says plainly a man cannot redeem a brother, nor no man pay a ransom to God for him. So I don’t understand why people not believing that Jesus is God the Son can fully rest in their salvation. Their church affiliation sure won’t save them. Jesus is our only hope for salvation. Our only hope! Satan has thrown a monkey wrench the minds of believers and put false thoughts, ideas, belief as pagan teachings in the MIX with the Trinity so, the Christians are so confuse and began fighting and killing themselves on this important subject for nearly 2000 yrs.
|
|
|
Post by curlywurlysammagee on Dec 8, 2019 1:14:05 GMT -5
I feel as though I should answer this post, but to be completely honest I just don't know where to start. So I will acknowledge your post but at the moment I am rather stumped at how people believe that Jesus has been around forever, if he was begat. That in itself means he is a newer version that the God the father version. God goes beyond for you. If you would like him to give to you a revelation about himself so that you have understanding- seek his face diligently. Doing that is only for psychotics.
|
|
|
Post by curlywurlysammagee on Dec 8, 2019 1:14:55 GMT -5
howitis: why do you associate anyone who believes in the Trinity concept to be automatically a Catholic or someone who prays to Mary? That’s not a reasonable assumption. There are so MANY false teachings, and incorrect belief and interpretation about the TRINITY! That is including the RCC in the 3rd century, the Mormons, JW and now including the 2x2s. The TRINITY is a heresy and Pagan belief. The RCC is a pagan religion so they got the TRINITY belief from them. Or the Trinity is God is the Father, became the Son and the Holy Spirit and they are ONE/being.Baptist believe the Trinity. Disciples of Christ believe the Trinity. There are multitudes of non-Catholic people who believe in the Trinity concept because it is biblical. Besides from salvation’s point of view it makes far more sense that our redeemer has to have been someone far more then a perfect man. Because there’s never been a man who has been able to save multitudes of mankind into eternal life. And there’s been millions of people who have spilled their blood for mankind’s privileges on earth, but it’s never won them eternal life. Psalms says plainly a man cannot redeem a brother, nor no man pay a ransom to God for him. So I don’t understand why people not believing that Jesus is God the Son can fully rest in their salvation. Their church affiliation sure won’t save them. Jesus is our only hope for salvation. Our only hope! Satan has thrown a monkey wrench the minds of believers and put false thoughts, ideas, belief as pagan teachings in the MIX with the Trinity so, the Christians are so confuse and began fighting and killing themselves on this important subject for nearly 2000 yrs.You are as much a pagan as any other god believer.
|
|
|
Post by curlywurlysammagee on Dec 8, 2019 1:19:27 GMT -5
There are many plants that are asexual.
|
|
|
Post by howitis on Dec 8, 2019 15:30:28 GMT -5
howitis: why do you associate anyone who believes in the Trinity concept to be automatically a Catholic or someone who prays to Mary? That’s not a reasonable assumption. To be adverse to the Trinity just because the Catholics believe it or because they pray to Mary doesn’t seem very wise! If one wants to be that radically averse, they need to compose their own bible like SDA do, that way no one can question what you believe or not believe. But naturally you’ll still be called a cult because your savior isn’t God’s eternal Son. Baptist believe the Trinity. Disciples of Christ believe the Trinity. There are multitudes of non-Catholic people who believe in the Trinity concept because it is biblical. Besides from salvation’s point of view it makes far more sense that our redeemer has to have been someone far more then a perfect man. Because there’s never been a man who has been able to save multitudes of mankind into eternal life. And there’s been millions of people who have spilled their blood for mankind’s privileges on earth, but it’s never won them eternal life. Psalms says plainly a man cannot redeem a brother, nor no man pay a ransom to God for him. So I don’t understand why people not believing that Jesus is God the Son can fully rest in their salvation. Their church affiliation sure won’t save them. Jesus is our only hope for salvation. Our only hope! It was you that first mentioned Catholic, was it not? As in Anne who is now a Catholic! I am trying to point out to you that the Catholic version of the trinity and the trinity that you believe in are two different things, as I said that if you ask people about what the trinity means to them you get very different answers. We need to look at all of the Bible all of Jesus' words and not cherry pick an item here and there to formulate an idea or a construct that fits either our own ideas or popular opinion of the day. Not once have I said I do not believe in the so called trinity, and Nathan is well aware of what I believe, if we take just the word trinity to mean (by dictionary definition)a group of three people or things there are many trinities in the bible and life....., faith, hope, love for example.or birth, life, death Again from the dictionary trinity /ˈtrɪnɪti/ noun the state of being three. noun: trinity "God is said to be trinity in unity" When we look at it this way, I think you'll find that is far more understanding among those that you discredit than you think, as after all I feel there is trinity and Trinity.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Dec 8, 2019 17:11:06 GMT -5
howitis: why do you associate anyone who believes in the Trinity concept to be automatically a Catholic or someone who prays to Mary? That’s not a reasonable assumption. To be adverse to the Trinity just because the Catholics believe it or because they pray to Mary doesn’t seem very wise! If one wants to be that radically averse, they need to compose their own bible like SDA do, that way no one can question what you believe or not believe. But naturally you’ll still be called a cult because your savior isn’t God’s eternal Son. Baptist believe the Trinity. Disciples of Christ believe the Trinity. There are multitudes of non-Catholic people who believe in the Trinity concept because it is biblical. Besides from salvation’s point of view it makes far more sense that our redeemer has to have been someone far more then a perfect man. Because there’s never been a man who has been able to save multitudes of mankind into eternal life. And there’s been millions of people who have spilled their blood for mankind’s privileges on earth, but it’s never won them eternal life. Psalms says plainly a man cannot redeem a brother, nor no man pay a ransom to God for him. So I don’t understand why people not believing that Jesus is God the Son can fully rest in their salvation. Their church affiliation sure won’t save them. Jesus is our only hope for salvation. Our only hope! It was you that first mentioned Catholic, was it not? As in Anne who is now a Catholic! I am trying to point out to you that the Catholic version of the trinity and the trinity that you believe in are two different things, as I said that if you ask people about what the trinity means to them you get very different answers. We need to look at all of the Bible all of Jesus' words and not cherry pick an item here and there to formulate an idea or a construct that fits either our own ideas or popular opinion of the day. Not once have I said I do not believe in the so called trinity, and Nathan is well aware of what I believe, if we take just the word trinity to mean (by dictionary definition)a group of three people or things there are many trinities in the bible and life....., faith, hope, love for example.or birth, life, death Again from the dictionary trinity /ˈtrɪnɪti/ noun the state of being three. noun: trinity "God is said to be trinity in unity" When we look at it this way, I think you'll find that is far more understanding among those that you discredit than you think, as after all I feel there is trinity and Trinity. Christianity isn't the only religion that has their trinity either. There is Brahma, Shiva and Vishu in the Hindu religion. I think it probably started because of the believe in the cycle of life as it was observed by early man. We are born, we live and we die. The cycle of life. It's an ancient concept that was around long before the Christian trinity. Though the Christian trinity was likely inspired by these earlier traditions of trinity Gods. www.ucg.org/bible-study-tools/booklets/is-god-a-trinity/how-ancient-trinitarian-gods-influenced-adoption-of-the-trinity
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 8, 2019 18:57:39 GMT -5
howitis: why do you associate anyone who believes in the Trinity concept to be automatically a Catholic or someone who prays to Mary? That’s not a reasonable assumption. To be adverse to the Trinity just because the Catholics believe it or because they pray to Mary doesn’t seem very wise! If one wants to be that radically averse, they need to compose their own bible like SDA do, that way no one can question what you believe or not believe. But naturally you’ll still be called a cult because your savior isn’t God’s eternal Son. Baptist believe the Trinity. Disciples of Christ believe the Trinity. There are multitudes of non-Catholic people who believe in the Trinity concept because it is biblical. Besides from salvation’s point of view it makes far more sense that our redeemer has to have been someone far more then a perfect man. Because there’s never been a man who has been able to save multitudes of mankind into eternal life. And there’s been millions of people who have spilled their blood for mankind’s privileges on earth, but it’s never won them eternal life. Psalms says plainly a man cannot redeem a brother, nor no man pay a ransom to God for him. So I don’t understand why people not believing that Jesus is God the Son can fully rest in their salvation. Their church affiliation sure won’t save them. Jesus is our only hope for salvation. Our only hope! It was you that first mentioned Catholic, was it not? As in Anne who is now a Catholic! I am trying to point out to you that the Catholic version of the trinity and the trinity that you believe in are two different things, as I said that if you ask people about what the trinity means to them you get very different answers. We need to look at all of the Bible all of Jesus' words and not cherry pick an item here and there to formulate an idea or a construct that fits either our own ideas or popular opinion of the day. Not once have I said I do not believe in the so called trinity, and Nathan is well aware of what I believe, if we take just the word trinity to mean (by dictionary definition)a group of three people or things there are many trinities in the bible and life....., faith, hope, love for example.or birth, life, death Again from the dictionary trinity /ˈtrɪnɪti/ noun the state of being three. noun: trinity "God is said to be trinity in unity" When we look at it this way, I think you'll find that is far more understanding among those that you discredit than you think, as after all I feel there is trinity and Trinity. I didn’t mention Anne as having become Catholic as having to do with the assistance that Nathan and she gave trying to help me understand. That was an assumption of yours. I mentioned it only as a reference that she’d been a two by two , left and became a Catholic. Who naturally is taught the Trinity. Whether she prays to Mary was another assumption of yours by an automatic thought process you have about Catholics being reviled in your brain due to them praying to Mary. You see, that’s a typical response from 2x2s for many years now. Disregarding any individual’s faith that may differ from a superimposed implanted assumption!
|
|