|
Post by mountain on Dec 3, 2019 17:08:22 GMT -5
Reborn, Please see the link below. I have posted this link at least six times in the not too distant past and have asked for anyone to challenge it and show it to be wrong. So far everyone has run away from the challenge and have failed even to make an attempt to address it. One person did attempt to attack the authors' integrity, but completely ignored the message. Keep in mind too that Jesus never said that he was the actual Word of God or Logos. In fact he denied it several times during his ministry with statements like...'the words that I spake are not my own, but are the Father's.; Or 'I speak all that my Father commands me,' confirming Deuteronomy 18.18-19 and Hebrews 1 etc. www.prweb.com/releases/2012/12/prweb10256188.htmDon't believe man. Believe God. Once you start believing the words of God, there is a whole new understanding out there. John 1:14. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld HIS GLORY, the glory as Of THE ONLY BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER,) full of grace and truth. References: Word-verse 1 was made flesh-Ga:4:4; I Tim 3:16; Heb 2:14 his glory-Luke 9:32; John 2:11 Completely debunks the theory they’re following for it clearly states that the “Word became flesh, as of the only begotten of the Father.” I’ve even heard workers say that the Word was made living in Christ Jesus. Yes the Word became flesh through the messenger Jesus. God expressed himself by word and deed through his only begotten Son. The only thing that is debunked is an ability to think!
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 3, 2019 18:51:00 GMT -5
In Reborn’s defense this was over some website Mountain posted where who or what the Word was disputed against most Christian’s interpretation or knowledge of that scripture. Reborn was just saying he didn’t trust some unknown earthly connection for the truth about the Bible but that God had revealed to him about the Word, etc. Everyone says they have the Revelation while someone else says they have the Revelation, so whose revelation is true? It comes down to the fact that we are also human, not 100% spiritual. In any 'revelation' our human reasoning and experiences come into play. We could have the same revelation but interpret it differently based on a number of other intervening factors. All I know was when Nathan and Anne an ex2x2 who’d become Catholic was doing their best to help me understand, I was paying heed to the scriptures they quoted or advised I read. It troubled me so that I actually wept in prayer for a little over 3 weeks. Until one evening I again, weeping plead,”Father, if this God the Son is VITAL to my salvation, please reveal it so I can wrap my mind around it.” And I continue praying and a sense of serenity and quietness overcame me and my tears quickly dried away. Then it came into my head exactly what the Bible was saying in every scripture. My problem was NOT BELIEVING that God’s only begotten Son was begotten before the world ever became. Once that became clear, the rest of it fell in place. I knew that the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary but I also knew that he wasn’t into impregnating humans, that he moved spirits. So when I remembered the Psalm that said, “a body thou hast prepared me” plus the fact the the Son of God was an eternal spirit from before the world ever became; I understood how the Son of God became Jesus the human. That the Son of God could have come to the earth in a mankind form as he had to Abraham at his tent door, but in order for the Son to have a perfect human body to offer for our sins, he had to have a fetus prepared for him so he could grow into adulthood keeping his human person perfectly pure. The reason for him to have a human body at all was because God is eternal and cannot die. This came to me in that prayer. I was simply awed. I sat back in my heels and sat like that for a while just thinking about what had been revealed to me. I knew it was from God through the Holy Spirit because my mind would have never gotten there by itself. Nathan can tell you my head was pretty hard to get to. The point that concerns me was my plea was “If this is vital to my salvation.” So it seems that’s why it was revealed to me.
|
|
|
Post by nathan on Dec 3, 2019 19:22:41 GMT -5
John 1:14. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld HIS GLORY, the glory as Of THE ONLY BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER,) full of grace and truth. References: Word-verse 1 was made flesh-Ga:4:4; I Tim 3:16; Heb 2:14 his glory-Luke 9:32; John 2:11 Completely debunks the theory they’re following for it clearly states that the “Word became flesh, as of the only begotten of the Father.” I’ve even heard workers say that the Word was made living in Christ Jesus. Yes the Word became flesh through the messenger Jesus. God expressed himself by word and deed through his only begotten Son. The only thing that is debunked is an ability to think!As STR, and reborn mentioned John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:14. And the Word/God Christ was made flesh/Jesus, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld HIS GLORY, the glory as Of THE ONLY BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER,) full of grace and truth. Here's what Christ Jesus said He is the Word God in Rev. 19:11-13 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The "Word of God."
|
|
|
Post by howitis on Dec 3, 2019 19:23:25 GMT -5
Everyone says they have the Revelation while someone else says they have the Revelation, so whose revelation is true? It comes down to the fact that we are also human, not 100% spiritual. In any 'revelation' our human reasoning and experiences come into play. We could have the same revelation but interpret it differently based on a number of other intervening factors. All I know was when Nathan and Anne an ex2x2 who’d become Catholic was doing their best to help me understand, I was paying heed to the scriptures they quoted or advised I read. It troubled me so that I actually wept in prayer for a little over 3 weeks. Until one evening I again, weeping plead,”Father, if this God the Son is VITAL to my salvation, please reveal it so I can wrap my mind around it.” And I continue praying and a sense of serenity and quietness overcame me and my tears quickly dried away. Then it came into my head exactly what the Bible was saying in every scripture. My problem was NOT BELIEVING that God’s only begotten Son was begotten before the world ever became. Once that became clear, the rest of it fell in place. I knew that the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary but I also knew that he wasn’t into impregnating humans, that he moved spirits. So when I remembered the Psalm that said, “a body thou hast prepared me” plus the fact the the Son of God was an eternal spirit from before the world ever became; I understood how the Son of God became Jesus the human. That the Son of God could have come to the earth in a mankind form as he had to Abraham at his tent door, but in order for the Son to have a perfect human body to offer for our sins, he had to have a fetus prepared for him so he could grow into adulthood keeping his human person perfectly pure. The reason for him to have a human body at all was because God is eternal and cannot die. This came to me in that prayer. I was simply awed. I sat back in my heels and sat like that for a while just thinking about what had been revealed to me. I knew it was from God through the Holy Spirit because my mind would have never gotten there by itself. Nathan can tell you my head was pretty hard to get to. The point that concerns me was my plea was “If this is vital to my salvation.” So it seems that’s why it was revealed to me. And so it was....."if this is vital to my salvation" you say that was your prayer, and rightly so, it was vital to YOUR salvation, by your own admission you had gone to others for help (possibly not God first), you sound as if you were desperate for an answer, thus in mercy God gave you peace, because whilst in the state of despair He could not use you and you were losing your salvation, yes it was vital for you. However many others do not get to that state, our salvation is individual, we must work it out with fear and trembling, but our workings can never be another's, we must remember that, what is vital for one is often not necessary for another because God knows our hearts and where we have come from, some lessons are not necessary for some and others need those same lessons over and over
|
|
|
Post by reborn on Dec 3, 2019 19:35:30 GMT -5
Everyone says they have the Revelation while someone else says they have the Revelation, so whose revelation is true? It comes down to the fact that we are also human, not 100% spiritual. In any 'revelation' our human reasoning and experiences come into play. We could have the same revelation but interpret it differently based on a number of other intervening factors. All I know was when Nathan and Anne an ex2x2 who’d become Catholic was doing their best to help me understand, I was paying heed to the scriptures they quoted or advised I read. It troubled me so that I actually wept in prayer for a little over 3 weeks. Until one evening I again, weeping plead,”Father, if this God the Son is VITAL to my salvation, please reveal it so I can wrap my mind around it.” And I continue praying and a sense of serenity and quietness overcame me and my tears quickly dried away. Then it came into my head exactly what the Bible was saying in every scripture. My problem was NOT BELIEVING that God’s only begotten Son was begotten before the world ever became. Once that became clear, the rest of it fell in place. I knew that the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary but I also knew that he wasn’t into impregnating humans, that he moved spirits. So when I remembered the Psalm that said, “a body thou hast prepared me” plus the fact the the Son of God was an eternal spirit from before the world ever became; I understood how the Son of God became Jesus the human. That the Son of God could have come to the earth in a mankind form as he had to Abraham at his tent door, but in order for the Son to have a perfect human body to offer for our sins, he had to have a fetus prepared for him so he could grow into adulthood keeping his human person perfectly pure. The reason for him to have a human body at all was because God is eternal and cannot die. This came to me in that prayer. I was simply awed. I sat back in my heels and sat like that for a while just thinking about what had been revealed to me. I knew it was from God through the Holy Spirit because my mind would have never gotten there by itself. Nathan can tell you my head was pretty hard to get to. The point that concerns me was my plea was “If this is vital to my salvation.” So it seems that’s why it was revealed to me.
|
|
|
Post by reborn on Dec 3, 2019 19:39:05 GMT -5
STR-Thank you for sharing that, as it totally confirmed that God had answered my prayer yet again. On another post, earlier today, I had suggested a reading of Hebrew 10- specifically the thought, and our hymn by the same name-God a body hath prepared me- had been running thru my mind. Very confirming to me!
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 3, 2019 21:16:41 GMT -5
All I know was when Nathan and Anne an ex2x2 who’d become Catholic was doing their best to help me understand, I was paying heed to the scriptures they quoted or advised I read. It troubled me so that I actually wept in prayer for a little over 3 weeks. Until one evening I again, weeping plead,”Father, if this God the Son is VITAL to my salvation, please reveal it so I can wrap my mind around it.” And I continue praying and a sense of serenity and quietness overcame me and my tears quickly dried away. Then it came into my head exactly what the Bible was saying in every scripture. My problem was NOT BELIEVING that God’s only begotten Son was begotten before the world ever became. Once that became clear, the rest of it fell in place. I knew that the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary but I also knew that he wasn’t into impregnating humans, that he moved spirits. So when I remembered the Psalm that said, “a body thou hast prepared me” plus the fact the the Son of God was an eternal spirit from before the world ever became; I understood how the Son of God became Jesus the human. That the Son of God could have come to the earth in a mankind form as he had to Abraham at his tent door, but in order for the Son to have a perfect human body to offer for our sins, he had to have a fetus prepared for him so he could grow into adulthood keeping his human person perfectly pure. The reason for him to have a human body at all was because God is eternal and cannot die. This came to me in that prayer. I was simply awed. I sat back in my heels and sat like that for a while just thinking about what had been revealed to me. I knew it was from God through the Holy Spirit because my mind would have never gotten there by itself. Nathan can tell you my head was pretty hard to get to. The point that concerns me was my plea was “If this is vital to my salvation.” So it seems that’s why it was revealed to me. And so it was....."if this is vital to my salvation" you say that was your prayer, and rightly so, it was vital to YOUR salvation, by your own admission you had gone to others for help (possibly not God first), you sound as if you were desperate for an answer, thus in mercy God gave you peace, because whilst in the state of despair He could not use you and you were losing your salvation, yes it was vital for you. However many others do not get to that state, our salvation is individual, we must work it out with fear and trembling, but our workings can never be another's, we must remember that, what is vital for one is often not necessary for another because God knows our hearts and where we have come from, some lessons are not necessary for some and others need those same lessons over and over I hadn’t gone to others for help nor have I ever said that. It was a Trinity conversation much like we’ve had with Mountain, though I questioned them why they said Gods Son was this or that not so much saying it wasn’t so. I just had never heard anything about the Trinity in explanation and of course after 49 some years in 2x2 isms I would have never heard it. As I said when I started reading the scriptures they quoted or mentioned in regards to the matter, I saw what they said but I couldn’t get my mind wrapped around it. Thus is why I prayed as I did thinking if it’s vital for salvation I need to learn this. But learn it wasn’t what happened, it was revealed. As to working out our own salvation with fear and trembling. I too, have come to learn that has been misinterpreted over many many years. It IS NOT ABOUT WORKING FOR SALVATION Working out usually means that the price or benefit has already be paid. Paul then says how we work out that already paid salvation. “With fear “- meaning respect and love for the one who has already bought our salvation. “And in trembling”- means we’re very weak in ourselves and needy, we’re dependent on the Lord for our soul’s deep need.
|
|
|
Post by howitis on Dec 4, 2019 6:16:34 GMT -5
And so it was....."if this is vital to my salvation" you say that was your prayer, and rightly so, it was vital to YOUR salvation, by your own admission you had gone to others for help (possibly not God first), you sound as if you were desperate for an answer, thus in mercy God gave you peace, because whilst in the state of despair He could not use you and you were losing your salvation, yes it was vital for you. However many others do not get to that state, our salvation is individual, we must work it out with fear and trembling, but our workings can never be another's, we must remember that, what is vital for one is often not necessary for another because God knows our hearts and where we have come from, some lessons are not necessary for some and others need those same lessons over and over I hadn’t gone to others for help nor have I ever said that. It was a Trinity conversation much like we’ve had with Mountain, though I questioned them why they said Gods Son was this or that not so much saying it wasn’t so. I just had never heard anything about the Trinity in explanation and of course after 49 some years in 2x2 isms I would have never heard it. As I said when I started reading the scriptures they quoted or mentioned in regards to the matter, I saw what they said but I couldn’t get my mind wrapped around it. Thus is why I prayed as I did thinking if it’s vital for salvation I need to learn this. But learn it wasn’t what happened, it was revealed. As to working out our own salvation with fear and trembling. I too, have come to learn that has been misinterpreted over many many years. It IS NOT ABOUT WORKING FOR SALVATION Working out usually means that the price or benefit has already be paid. Paul then says how we work out that already paid salvation. “With fear “- meaning respect and love for the one who has already bought our salvation. “And in trembling”- means we’re very weak in ourselves and needy, we’re dependent on the Lord for our soul’s deep need. You said yourself that you were getting help from Nathan and Anne in regards to this matter, did you not? Thus I have said you obviously went to others. I have never said that about "working out", I have just pointed out we must do it each for ourselves, this matter was something that brought you to the point of fear and trembling, of desperation and weeping, was it not? Still that is your walk, not another's
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 4, 2019 11:22:59 GMT -5
I hadn’t gone to others for help nor have I ever said that. It was a Trinity conversation much like we’ve had with Mountain, though I questioned them why they said Gods Son was this or that not so much saying it wasn’t so. I just had never heard anything about the Trinity in explanation and of course after 49 some years in 2x2 isms I would have never heard it. As I said when I started reading the scriptures they quoted or mentioned in regards to the matter, I saw what they said but I couldn’t get my mind wrapped around it. Thus is why I prayed as I did thinking if it’s vital for salvation I need to learn this. But learn it wasn’t what happened, it was revealed. As to working out our own salvation with fear and trembling. I too, have come to learn that has been misinterpreted over many many years. It IS NOT ABOUT WORKING FOR SALVATION Working out usually means that the price or benefit has already be paid. Paul then says how we work out that already paid salvation. “With fear “- meaning respect and love for the one who has already bought our salvation. “And in trembling”- means we’re very weak in ourselves and needy, we’re dependent on the Lord for our soul’s deep need. You said yourself that you were getting help from Nathan and Anne in regards to this matter, did you not? Thus I have said you obviously went to others. I have never said that about "working out", I have just pointed out we must do it each for ourselves, this matter was something that brought you to the point of fear and trembling, of desperation and weeping, was it not? Still that is your walk, not another's I said Nathan and Anne were trying to help me understand. It wasn’t that I went to them for understanding. As I said the situation was much like it’s been with Mountain. He’s not seeking our help to understand. We’re trying to help him understand. There’s a big difference. Yes, I wept about the situation simply because I read the scriptures that were presented to me just as we’ve presented scriptures to Mountain. I could see in those scriptures that Nathan and Anne that what they were saying had validity to them, but I couldn’t wrap my brain around the concept. THEN I WENT IN PRAYER TO GOD FOR HELP to understand what it was about and how it could be. Y ou jumped to conclusions about my situation to defend your own situation.
|
|
|
Post by howitis on Dec 4, 2019 14:36:38 GMT -5
You said yourself that you were getting help from Nathan and Anne in regards to this matter, did you not? Thus I have said you obviously went to others. I have never said that about "working out", I have just pointed out we must do it each for ourselves, this matter was something that brought you to the point of fear and trembling, of desperation and weeping, was it not? Still that is your walk, not another's I said Nathan and Anne were trying to help me understand. It wasn’t that I went to them for understanding. As I said the situation was much like it’s been with Mountain. He’s not seeking our help to understand. We’re trying to help him understand. There’s a big difference. Yes, I wept about the situation simply because I read the scriptures that were presented to me just as we’ve presented scriptures to Mountain. I could see in those scriptures that Nathan and Anne that what they were saying had validity to them, but I couldn’t wrap my brain around the concept. THEN I WENT IN PRAYER TO GOD FOR HELP to understand what it was about and how it could be. Y ou jumped to conclusions about my situation to defend your own situation. It appears to me and apparently to others you are not merely trying to help Mountain understand, but rather say he is wrong and you are right. Sorry if you think I jumped to conclusions, but was it not right there within your own writing that you were getting help from Nathan and Anne, and THEN you prayed? It was within your own writing!! What situation do you think I am trying to defend? The Roman Catholic Church have a long association with the so called Trinity, they pray, 'Holy Mary Mother of God....' I am not sure I can reconcile myself with that form of the Trinity.....is that what you're insisting I'm defending?
|
|
|
Post by snow on Dec 4, 2019 15:21:18 GMT -5
So what you and reborn are basically saying is that Mountain doesn't have the indwelling of the holy spirit because his revelation from the same god doesn't match both of your's? How do you determine that, especially when you could be wrong and he could be right? Same God, different revelation. Both given to fallible humans. I'm really curious. No, we’re not saying that. We’re saying that’s how we got ours. It’s not intended to infer anyone doesn’t have the Holy Spirit, but for clarification; the Bible is explicit that things are revealed according to the measure of faith and the usage of the word. Why others don’t get the same revelations are dependent on the Father’s judgment and will. He knows when someone is well able to adapt to or use certain things God reveals. I have no idea what his standards of measures are but according to the Bible it’s what and when the Holy Spirit groans unutterable things for us as he sees our needs. Naturally our needs are different from each other’s. I do understand that everyone's needs are different. But I really don't understand why his answers wouldn't be the same for everyone? After all if it's true how can it change and be so absolutely contradictory between individuals?
|
|
|
Post by snow on Dec 4, 2019 15:21:55 GMT -5
Okay, I see you really believe that you do that, but this post to Mountain seemed like you were saying he was wrong and you were right and he should read Hebrews 10 because you really wanted him to get this right. What else is anyone supposed to think when it's pretty clear that you think he's wrong and you are right? Mountain- There is no part of my belief that is False as it is direct revelation from God. Perhaps reading Hebrews 10 and understanding WHY Jesus had to come in the flesh might give you some insight. I really want you to get this right , however I do not have that ability. Revelation is God given.In Reborn’s defense this was over some website Mountain posted where who or what the Word was disputed against most Christian’s interpretation or knowledge of that scripture. Reborn was just saying he didn’t trust some unknown earthly connection for the truth about the Bible but that God had revealed to him about the Word, etc. Noted, thank you.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Dec 4, 2019 15:31:09 GMT -5
I said Nathan and Anne were trying to help me understand. It wasn’t that I went to them for understanding. As I said the situation was much like it’s been with Mountain. He’s not seeking our help to understand. We’re trying to help him understand. There’s a big difference. Yes, I wept about the situation simply because I read the scriptures that were presented to me just as we’ve presented scriptures to Mountain. I could see in those scriptures that Nathan and Anne that what they were saying had validity to them, but I couldn’t wrap my brain around the concept. THEN I WENT IN PRAYER TO GOD FOR HELP to understand what it was about and how it could be. Y ou jumped to conclusions about my situation to defend your own situation. It appears to me and apparently to others you are not merely trying to help Mountain understand, but rather say he is wrong and you are right. Sorry if you think I jumped to conclusions, but was it not right there within your own writing that you were getting help from Nathan and Anne, and THEN you prayed? It was within your own writing!! What situation do you think I am trying to defend? The Roman Catholic Church have a long association with the so called Trinity, they pray, 'Holy Mary Mother of God....' I am not sure I can reconcile myself with that form of the Trinity.....is that what you're insisting I'm defending? I think if more Christians really knew the history of how the Trinity came to be the RCC doctrine they might realize that it's a man made interpretation and it was made in defense of what the pagans were saying about the RCC. Pagans rightfully noted that if Jesus was God then they were not monotheistic. That they had more than one God. That is when the RCC devised the convoluted explanation how 3 entities could be 1 god. No one understand it completely and it needs to be taken on faith because it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
|
|
|
Post by mountain on Dec 4, 2019 15:39:54 GMT -5
It appears to me and apparently to others you are not merely trying to help Mountain understand, but rather say he is wrong and you are right. Sorry if you think I jumped to conclusions, but was it not right there within your own writing that you were getting help from Nathan and Anne, and THEN you prayed? It was within your own writing!! What situation do you think I am trying to defend? The Roman Catholic Church have a long association with the so called Trinity, they pray, 'Holy Mary Mother of God....' I am not sure I can reconcile myself with that form of the Trinity.....is that what you're insisting I'm defending? I think if more Christians really knew the history of how the Trinity came to be the RCC doctrine they might realize that it's a man made interpretation and it was made in defense of what the pagans were saying about the RCC. Pagans rightfully noted that if Jesus was God then they were not monotheistic. That they had more than one God. That is when the RCC devised the convoluted explanation how 3 entities could be 1 god. No one understand it completely and it needs to be taken on faith because it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Those who seek the one true God should be mindful of Paul's words to the Corinthians: 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 King James Version (KJV) 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. According to the Catholic Church you need to believe in the trinity to be saved. However, if you try to understand it, it will make you mad. That sounds like simplicity to me?
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Dec 4, 2019 18:23:21 GMT -5
Indeed, an attempt to try to understand the Trinity could easily make one go "mad!" First, one needs to understand WHERE the idea originated, -the Catholic church, -then decide if you accept it and just take in on "faith."
Otherwise one can agonize, weep or pray over it until one nearly goes crazy trying to understand.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Dec 4, 2019 18:30:16 GMT -5
Indeed, an attempt to try to understand the Trinity could easily make one go "mad!" First, one needs to understand WHERE the idea originated, -the Catholic church, -then decide if you accept it and just take in on "faith."
Otherwise one can agonize, weep or pray over it until one nearly goes crazy trying to understand. Well I've come to an easy way to see it. Under the heading of Laundry cleaners comes detergent, fabric softener and bleach. Three separate cleaners but all exist in one under one heading as cleaners of clothes. See! Simple.
|
|
|
Post by mountain on Dec 4, 2019 18:35:24 GMT -5
Indeed, an attempt to try to understand the Trinity could easily make one go "mad!" First, one needs to understand WHERE the idea originated, -the Catholic church, -then decide if you accept it and just take in on "faith."
Otherwise one can agonize, weep or pray over it until one nearly goes crazy trying to understand. Well I've come to an easy way to see it. Under the heading of Laundry cleaners comes detergent, fabric softener and bleach. Three separate cleaners but all exist in one under one heading as cleaners of clothes. See! Simple. So that is how sin is made white as Snow..............and just why you are called 'Snow.' Our dear Snowhite
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 4, 2019 18:35:29 GMT -5
No, we’re not saying that. We’re saying that’s how we got ours. It’s not intended to infer anyone doesn’t have the Holy Spirit, but for clarification; the Bible is explicit that things are revealed according to the measure of faith and the usage of the word. Why others don’t get the same revelations are dependent on the Father’s judgment and will. He knows when someone is well able to adapt to or use certain things God reveals. I have no idea what his standards of measures are but according to the Bible it’s what and when the Holy Spirit groans unutterable things for us as he sees our needs. Naturally our needs are different from each other’s. I do understand that everyone's needs are different. But I really don't understand why his answers wouldn't be the same for everyone? After all if it's true how can it change and be so absolutely contradictory between individuals? I tried to explain that. It’s done by the Indwelling Holy Spirit who tells God what each individual needs or can handle. We all don’t teach the same points of like faith at the same time. Plus there are some who never are able to get beyond the milk of the word. I’m not sure why, but that’s the way it goes. It’s my understanding that when Jesus appears and receives his own to himself in the rapture, that he finishes our faith, unites all in the same faith unto the full stature of Jesus Christ as he is the head of the body which his saints are the body. So it would seem for some when Jesus appears it’s going to be an aha! moment.
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 4, 2019 18:38:24 GMT -5
Indeed, an attempt to try to understand the Trinity could easily make one go "mad!" First, one needs to understand WHERE the idea originated, -the Catholic church, -then decide if you accept it and just take in on "faith."
Otherwise one can agonize, weep or pray over it until one nearly goes crazy trying to understand. No need for great problems in understanding. Just think that God, Godhead and Divine are not a person’s name but his nature. The name of the persons having that nature are the Father, his only begotten Son and the Holy Spirit.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Dec 4, 2019 18:39:20 GMT -5
Well I've come to an easy way to see it. Under the heading of Laundry cleaners comes detergent, fabric softener and bleach. Three separate cleaners but all exist in one under one heading as cleaners of clothes. See! Simple. So that is how sin is made white as Snow..............and just why you are called 'Snow.' Our dear Snowhite LOL me and my lucky seven....
|
|
|
Post by snow on Dec 4, 2019 18:40:50 GMT -5
I do understand that everyone's needs are different. But I really don't understand why his answers wouldn't be the same for everyone? After all if it's true how can it change and be so absolutely contradictory between individuals? I tried to explain that. It’s done by the Indwelling Holy Spirit who tells God what each individual needs or can handle. We all don’t teach the same points of like faith at the same time. Plus there are some who never are able to get beyond the milk of the word. I’m not sure why, but that’s the way it goes. It’s my understanding that when Jesus appears and receives his own to himself in the rapture, that he finishes our faith, unites all in the same faith unto the full stature of Jesus Christ as he is the head of the body which his saints are the body. So it would seem for some when Jesus appears it’s going to be an aha! moment. Okay. I don't understand, but okay. Thank you.
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 4, 2019 18:49:12 GMT -5
I said Nathan and Anne were trying to help me understand. It wasn’t that I went to them for understanding. As I said the situation was much like it’s been with Mountain. He’s not seeking our help to understand. We’re trying to help him understand. There’s a big difference. Yes, I wept about the situation simply because I read the scriptures that were presented to me just as we’ve presented scriptures to Mountain. I could see in those scriptures that Nathan and Anne that what they were saying had validity to them, but I couldn’t wrap my brain around the concept. THEN I WENT IN PRAYER TO GOD FOR HELP to understand what it was about and how it could be. Y ou jumped to conclusions about my situation to defend your own situation. It appears to me and apparently to others you are not merely trying to help Mountain understand, but rather say he is wrong and you are right. Sorry if you think I jumped to conclusions, but was it not right there within your own writing that you were getting help from Nathan and Anne, and THEN you prayed? It was within your own writing!! What situation do you think I am trying to defend? The Roman Catholic Church have a long association with the so called Trinity, they pray, 'Holy Mary Mother of God....' I am not sure I can reconcile myself with that form of the Trinity.....is that what you're insisting I'm defending? Third time: Nathan and Anne were trying to help me to understand. I DID NOT ASK THEM FOR THEIR HELP, they gave it freely. THE RCC no longer pray to Mary, so I heard Pope Francis say in a speech. They should have never prayed to Mary. No I’m not insisting you’re defending the your perception of the RCC Trinity which is no longer so. I’m saying you’re defending you insistence that Jesus is not God the Son. I’ve never prayed to Mary and I never will. My concern for anyone is the belittling of Jesus to just being a perfect man and think a perfect man's blood can save them since it says in Psalms that NO MAN CAN REDEEM HIS BROTHER, NOR OFFER A RANSOM TO GOD FOR HIM. Jesus came as heaven’s great ransom price, he left his home on high, the glory he had had with the Father since before the world ever became, to die a sacrifice for mankind’s sin. “The cost at which he came”.
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 4, 2019 18:50:10 GMT -5
I tried to explain that. It’s done by the Indwelling Holy Spirit who tells God what each individual needs or can handle. We all don’t teach the same points of like faith at the same time. Plus there are some who never are able to get beyond the milk of the word. I’m not sure why, but that’s the way it goes. It’s my understanding that when Jesus appears and receives his own to himself in the rapture, that he finishes our faith, unites all in the same faith unto the full stature of Jesus Christ as he is the head of the body which his saints are the body. So it would seem for some when Jesus appears it’s going to be an aha! moment. Okay. I don't understand, but okay. Thank you. We all grow at different rates spiritually just like children do physically and mentally.
|
|
|
Post by howitis on Dec 4, 2019 21:00:30 GMT -5
It appears to me and apparently to others you are not merely trying to help Mountain understand, but rather say he is wrong and you are right. Sorry if you think I jumped to conclusions, but was it not right there within your own writing that you were getting help from Nathan and Anne, and THEN you prayed? It was within your own writing!! What situation do you think I am trying to defend? The Roman Catholic Church have a long association with the so called Trinity, they pray, 'Holy Mary Mother of God....' I am not sure I can reconcile myself with that form of the Trinity.....is that what you're insisting I'm defending? Third time: Nathan and Anne were trying to help me to understand. I DID NOT ASK THEM FOR THEIR HELP, they gave it freely. THE RCC no longer pray to Mary, so I heard Pope Francis say in a speech. They should have never prayed to Mary. No I’m not insisting you’re defending the your perception of the RCC Trinity which is no longer so. I’m saying you’re defending you insistence that Jesus is not God the Son. I’ve never prayed to Mary and I never will. My concern for anyone is the belittling of Jesus to just being a perfect man and think a perfect man's blood can save them since it says in Psalms that NO MAN CAN REDEEM HIS BROTHER, NOR OFFER A RANSOM TO GOD FOR HIM. Jesus came as heaven’s great ransom price, he left his home on high, the glory he had had with the Father since before the world ever became, to die a sacrifice for mankind’s sin. “The cost at which he came”. So now I'm defending the RCC version of the trinity, which is longer so, except that it is, I have family and friends who are RCC and I know full well how they pray regardless of what the Pope says. As I said before our salvation is totally something personal we can never ever walk another's walk, you may well be concerned, but there are many many good Christians out there who have a depth of understanding and love for God and the word Trinity does not appear in their vocabulary, yet one can feel the Holy Spirit within them. Reconciled as they are to the Father Son and Holy Spirit.
|
|
|
Post by nathan on Dec 4, 2019 21:08:49 GMT -5
It appears to me and apparently to others you are not merely trying to help Mountain understand, but rather say he is wrong and you are right. Sorry if you think I jumped to conclusions, but was it not right there within your own writing that you were getting help from Nathan and Anne, and THEN you prayed? It was within your own writing!! What situation do you think I am trying to defend? The Roman Catholic Church have a long association with the so called Trinity, they pray, 'Holy Mary Mother of God....' I am not sure I can reconcile myself with that form of the Trinity.....is that what you're insisting I'm defending? I think if more Christians really knew the history of how the Trinity came to be the RCC doctrine they might realize that it's a man made interpretation and it was made in defense of what the pagans were saying about the RCC. Pagans rightfully noted that if Jesus was God then they were not monotheistic. That they had more than one God. That is when the RCC devised the convoluted explanation how 3 entities could be 1 god. No one understand it completely and it needs to be taken on faith because it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The Anti-Trinity current 2x2 workers and the friends, Jehovah Witnesses, and Some believers from different denominations tried to promote/teach that the TRINITY is a pagan/heresy doctrine and the devil's doctrine! and it was started by the RCC. That is so Baloney! If they KNEW the WHOLE story behind the scene then you will see the Anti-Trinity Agenda for centuries! Satan has deceived them so they CAN'T truly worship the Godhead/TRINITY/Jesus is God.
There are so MANY incorrect teachings about What or Who is part of the TRINIY! No wonder there is so much confusion on this subject for centuries! Satan has muddled the water for centuries and people have fallen for it including the 2x2 workers and the friends the last 70 yrs. This is one of the most deadly topic/belief anti-Trintiy, and WEAKEN/watered down the gospel of Jesus Christ/God to a man Jesus born in Bethlehem 2000 yrs ago, which cause much harm to the fellowship, once it got in the 2x2s group it's going to take YEARS and YEARS to UNDO it.
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 4, 2019 21:38:54 GMT -5
Third time: Nathan and Anne were trying to help me to understand. I DID NOT ASK THEM FOR THEIR HELP, they gave it freely. THE RCC no longer pray to Mary, so I heard Pope Francis say in a speech. They should have never prayed to Mary. No I’m not insisting you’re defending the your perception of the RCC Trinity which is no longer so. I’m saying you’re defending you insistence that Jesus is not God the Son. I’ve never prayed to Mary and I never will. My concern for anyone is the belittling of Jesus to just being a perfect man and think a perfect man's blood can save them since it says in Psalms that NO MAN CAN REDEEM HIS BROTHER, NOR OFFER A RANSOM TO GOD FOR HIM. Jesus came as heaven’s great ransom price, he left his home on high, the glory he had had with the Father since before the world ever became, to die a sacrifice for mankind’s sin. “The cost at which he came”. So now I'm defending the RCC version of the trinity, which is longer so, except that it is, I have family and friends who are RCC and I know full well how they pray regardless of what the Pope says. As I said before our salvation is totally something personal we can never ever walk another's walk, you may well be concerned, but there are many many good Christians out there who have a depth of understanding and love for God and the word Trinity does not appear in their vocabulary, yet one can feel the Holy Spirit within them. Reconciled as they are to the Father Son and Holy Spirit. I don’t like the word Trinity either. I very seldom use it. The Trinity concept from RCC tends to make people say 3 gods. But when you understand that the Father begat his only begotten Son before the world ever became, all on his own. Then you realize there could be no other genetic/spiritual makeup of the Son but God. His appearance on earth was a necessity to come in human form so that he could die being lifted up because his spirit was an eternal spirit and could not die. God cannot die, he it is that only is eternal from everlasting to everlasting. So Jesus was given a fetal body so that he could keep his human body pure in order his sacrifice would be as a lamb without blemish. But I fully believe what the Bible says that the Father said to his Son, “ Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever...”. Hebs1:8 “In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was God.” John 1:1 “The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. And we saw his majesty.” John 1:14, II Peter 1:14 “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self WITH THE GLORY I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE WORLD EVER WAS.” John 17:5 Wherefore when he cometh INTO the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldst not, BUT A BODY HAS THOU PREPARED ME. Hebrews 10:5 (Jesus) Whom hath made us kings and priests unto OUR GOD AND HIS FATHER.” Revelations 1:6 Feeling the Holy Spirit in another person might not be possible if it’s such a personal relationship. The most important part is they feel the Holy Spirit.
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 4, 2019 21:42:51 GMT -5
Third time: Nathan and Anne were trying to help me to understand. I DID NOT ASK THEM FOR THEIR HELP, they gave it freely. THE RCC no longer pray to Mary, so I heard Pope Francis say in a speech. They should have never prayed to Mary. No I’m not insisting you’re defending the your perception of the RCC Trinity which is no longer so. I’m saying you’re defending you insistence that Jesus is not God the Son. I’ve never prayed to Mary and I never will. My concern for anyone is the belittling of Jesus to just being a perfect man and think a perfect man's blood can save them since it says in Psalms that NO MAN CAN REDEEM HIS BROTHER, NOR OFFER A RANSOM TO GOD FOR HIM. Jesus came as heaven’s great ransom price, he left his home on high, the glory he had had with the Father since before the world ever became, to die a sacrifice for mankind’s sin. “The cost at which he came”. So now I'm defending the RCC version of the trinity, which is longer so, except that it is, I have family and friends who are RCC and I know full well how they pray regardless of what the Pope says. As I said before our salvation is totally something personal we can never ever walk another's walk, you may well be concerned, but there are many many good Christians out there who have a depth of understanding and love for God and the word Trinity does not appear in their vocabulary, yet one can feel the Holy Spirit within them. Reconciled as they are to the Father Son and Holy Spirit. You need to reread what I said. In NO WAY did I say you were defending the RCC Trinity. I said as soon much .
|
|
|
Post by snow on Dec 5, 2019 12:03:17 GMT -5
So now I'm defending the RCC version of the trinity, which is longer so, except that it is, I have family and friends who are RCC and I know full well how they pray regardless of what the Pope says. As I said before our salvation is totally something personal we can never ever walk another's walk, you may well be concerned, but there are many many good Christians out there who have a depth of understanding and love for God and the word Trinity does not appear in their vocabulary, yet one can feel the Holy Spirit within them. Reconciled as they are to the Father Son and Holy Spirit. I don’t like the word Trinity either. I very seldom use it. The Trinity concept from RCC tends to make people say 3 gods. But when you understand that the Father begat his only begotten Son before the world ever became, all on his own. Then you realize there could be no other genetic/spiritual makeup of the Son but God. His appearance on earth was a necessity to come in human form so that he could die being lifted up because his spirit was an eternal spirit and could not die. God cannot die, he it is that only is eternal from everlasting to everlasting. So Jesus was given a fetal body so that he could keep his human body pure in order his sacrifice would be as a lamb without blemish. But I fully believe what the Bible says that the Father said to his Son, “ Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever...”. Hebs1:8 “In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was God.” John 1:1 “The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. And we saw his majesty.” John 1:14, II Peter 1:14 “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self WITH THE GLORY I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE WORLD EVER WAS.” John 17:5 Wherefore when he cometh INTO the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldst not, BUT A BODY HAS THOU PREPARED ME. Hebrews 10:5 (Jesus) Whom hath made us kings and priests unto OUR GOD AND HIS FATHER.” Revelations 1:6 Feeling the Holy Spirit in another person might not be possible if it’s such a personal relationship. The most important part is they feel the Holy Spirit. In the science world god making himself split to make Jesus sounds very like the origin of life on earth. A single cell organism finally splitting to become a multi cell organism. But for God to 'begat' Jesus all by himself as you say, that would mean that God has existed longer than Jesus. So how can Jesus have always existed? That makes no sense.
|
|