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Post by mountain on Dec 3, 2019 4:22:25 GMT -5
Reborn, Please see the link below. I have posted this link at least six times in the not too distant past and have asked for anyone to challenge it and show it to be wrong. So far everyone has run away from the challenge and have failed even to make an attempt to address it. One person did attempt to attack the authors' integrity, but completely ignored the message. Keep in mind too that Jesus never said that he was the actual Word of God or Logos. In fact he denied it several times during his ministry with statements like...'the words that I spake are not my own, but are the Father's.; Or 'I speak all that my Father commands me,' confirming Deuteronomy 18.18-19 and Hebrews 1 etc. www.prweb.com/releases/2012/12/prweb10256188.htmDon't believe man. Believe God. Once you start believing the words of God, there is a whole new understanding out there.
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Post by reborn on Dec 3, 2019 6:53:37 GMT -5
Mountain- you have changed that verse in Titus- not sure why- I quoted directly from my KJV bible. I further would like to suggest to you that you read and BELIEVE what John 1 states about the word was God. Makes it real clear and simple to believe. My apologies Reborn, I quoted the NIV instead of the KJV. As a rule I usually go by the KJV. Perhaps consulting the internet sources rather than my KJV Bible was the cause? Anyway, it is clear in the KJV version that in Titus 2, TWO separate persons are being referred to, i.e. God and Jesus. For those who disagree, they quite simply have to admit the possibility certainly exists. However, compare the Titus text with the long list of related verses that I provided and there can be no doubt whatsoever that two separate persons, i.e. God and Jesus are being referred to, with Jesus being a separate identity to God himself.
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Post by reborn on Dec 3, 2019 6:58:04 GMT -5
Mountain- I was given that verse by Immediately by God when I read your first post that I responded to yesterday. God promised his Holy Spirit to all those who believe, and he certainly has done this for me. I was at work yesterday when given that verse by him, and did not reply to your message until I arrived back home and looked it up in my bible. I do not argue with revelation that God gives me.
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Post by reborn on Dec 3, 2019 6:59:46 GMT -5
Reborn, Please see the link below. I have posted this link at least six times in the not too distant past and have asked for anyone to challenge it and show it to be wrong. So far everyone has run away from the challenge and have failed even to make an attempt to address it. One person did attempt to attack the authors' integrity, but completely ignored the message. Keep in mind too that Jesus never said that he was the actual Word of God or Logos. In fact he denied it several times during his ministry with statements like...'the words that I spake are not my own, but are the Father's.; Or 'I speak all that my Father commands me,' confirming Deuteronomy 18.18-19 and Hebrews 1 etc. www.prweb.com/releases/2012/12/prweb10256188.htmDon't believe man. Believe God. Once you start believing the words of God, there is a whole new understanding out there.
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Post by reborn on Dec 3, 2019 7:02:05 GMT -5
The revelation that God gave me of himself was directly from him. I personally choose to not rely on others articles, books etc...Man is so prone to get things wrong. I pray directly to God with my questions, and it is the thrill of my life that he answers me!
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Post by reborn on Dec 3, 2019 7:04:56 GMT -5
Mountain- you have changed that verse in Titus- not sure why- I quoted directly from my KJV bible. I further would like to suggest to you that you read and BELIEVE what John 1 states about the word was God. Makes it real clear and simple to believe. Reborn, your understanding of John 1 is based upon the false belief that Jesus is the actual Word or logos of God. I challenge you to provide one reference which asserts this claim. Jesus is the Word of God through being God's messenger, not through some pre-existent standing. God himself tells us exactly how his word was made flesh in Deuteronomy. Believe God - not man's assumptions. Deut. 18 17 And the Lord said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.God wasn't lying to Moses, nor was he keeping back part of the truth. The prophesied Jesus was to be a human being, raised up from Moses's brethren, was to be a prophet, was to be like Moses, into whom God the Father would put God's word. God never said at any time that he himself, or any part of him, or any other spiritual being would come down from Heaven to be the Jewish Messiah. The Messiah was understood by the Jews to be a human being only. Do you believe God? Do you believe Moses? Are you persuaded by man? The Pharisees didn't believe that Jesus was the human being Messiah either. They read and studied the scriptures but still could not see or understand the truth. Here is what Jesus told them The mainstream Christian world is similarly blinded today. John 5:46-47 King James Version (KJV) 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?Once more, do you believe God about whom Jesus is? Do you believe what Moses and the Prophets wrote about Jesus? Or do you believe man's interpretations and assumptions?
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Post by reborn on Dec 3, 2019 7:07:21 GMT -5
Mountain- There is no part of my belief that is False as it is direct revelation from God. Perhaps reading Hebrews 10 and understanding WHY Jesus had to come in the flesh might give you some insight. I really want you to get this right , however I do not have that ability. Revelation is God given.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 3, 2019 11:36:35 GMT -5
Reborn, Please see the link below. I have posted this link at least six times in the not too distant past and have asked for anyone to challenge it and show it to be wrong. So far everyone has run away from the challenge and have failed even to make an attempt to address it. One person did attempt to attack the authors' integrity, but completely ignored the message. Keep in mind too that Jesus never said that he was the actual Word of God or Logos. In fact he denied it several times during his ministry with statements like...'the words that I spake are not my own, but are the Father's.; Or 'I speak all that my Father commands me,' confirming Deuteronomy 18.18-19 and Hebrews 1 etc. www.prweb.com/releases/2012/12/prweb10256188.htmDon't believe man. Believe God. Once you start believing the words of God, there is a whole new understanding out there. John 1:14. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld HIS GLORY, the glory as Of THE ONLY BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER,) full of grace and truth. References: Word-verse 1 was made flesh-Ga:4:4; I Tim 3:16; Heb 2:14 his glory-Luke 9:32; John 2:11 Completely debunks the theory they’re following for it clearly states that the “Word became flesh, as of the only begotten of the Father.” I’ve even heard workers say that the Word was made living in Christ Jesus.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 3, 2019 11:38:40 GMT -5
Mountain- There is no part of my belief that is False as it is direct revelation from God. Perhaps reading Hebrews 10 and understanding WHY Jesus had to come in the flesh might give you some insight. I really want you to get this right , however I do not have that ability. Revelation is God given. Amen! And revelation comes by the indwelling Holy Spirit.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 3, 2019 11:40:05 GMT -5
The revelation that God gave me of himself was directly from him. I personally choose to not rely on others articles, books etc...Man is so prone to get things wrong. I pray directly to God with my questions, and it is the thrill of my life that he answers me! Bears repeating often!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 3, 2019 11:52:16 GMT -5
Mountain- you have changed that verse in Titus- not sure why- I quoted directly from my KJV bible. I further would like to suggest to you that you read and BELIEVE what John 1 states about the word was God. Makes it real clear and simple to believe. Reborn, your understanding of John 1 is based upon the false belief that Jesus is the actual Word or logos of God. I challenge you to provide one reference which asserts this claim. Jesus is the Word of God through being God's messenger, not through some pre-existent standing. God himself tells us exactly how his word was made flesh in Deuteronomy. Believe God - not man's assumptions. Deut. 18 17 And the Lord said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.God wasn't lying to Moses, nor was he keeping back part of the truth. The prophesied Jesus was to be a human being, raised up from Moses's brethren, was to be a prophet, was to be like Moses, into whom God the Father would put God's word. God never said at any time that he himself, or any part of him, or any other spiritual being would come down from Heaven to be the Jewish Messiah. The Messiah was understood by the Jews to be a human being only. Do you believe God? Do you believe Moses? Are you persuaded by man? The Pharisees didn't believe that Jesus was the human being Messiah either. They read and studied the scriptures but still could not see or understand the truth. Here is what Jesus told them The mainstream Christian world is similarly blinded today. John 5:46-47 King James Version (KJV) 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?Once more, do you believe God about whom Jesus is? Do you believe what Moses and the Prophets wrote about Jesus? Or do you believe man's interpretations and assumptions? You show you don’t believe Gods word. In Hebrews it clearly says that the Father said to his Son ,”Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever.” In I John 5:11 it says that the Father left on record. “And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, AND THAT LIFE(eternal life) IS IN HIS SON. His Son was an eternal living spirit from before the world ever became. Hebrews 10:5 (Jesus) Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldst not, BUT A BODY HAST THOU PREPARED ME: Revelations 1:5-6. And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of all the earth. Unto him that loves us and washed us from our own sins in his own blood, And hath made us kings and priests unto GOD AND HIS FATHER; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen GOD AND HIS FATHER?
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Post by snow on Dec 3, 2019 13:00:29 GMT -5
How could he have been separated from himself? His God person is eternal spirit. On the cross he said “Father I commit to you my spirit.” This is the separation of the God person(eternal spirit) from the human; otherwise he could not die. What's the difference between a soul/spirit going to God and his soul going to God. All these things can still happen with a human that God is using as a perfect conduit. There is no need for Jesus to be God for any of what went on. In fact, it makes far more sense if he was a human. It would explain why he felt abandoned more so than what your theory is. It also explains why he lost his temper in the temple, with the money changers. He was perfect but he was good enough.
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Post by snow on Dec 3, 2019 13:04:42 GMT -5
The revelation that God gave me of himself was directly from him. I personally choose to not rely on others articles, books etc...Man is so prone to get things wrong. I pray directly to God with my questions, and it is the thrill of my life that he answers me! Which totally makes it so understandable that man has created so many different Gods to worship and so many different ways with the same God to worship. Everyone goes by their interpretation which they of course think is directly from their God, and seem to forget that someone else claims the same thing only the complete opposite from what was revealed to you. How does that work? How do you know that their revelation is wrong and your's is right, especially when they believe in the same God and are just as passionate about what they feel was revealed to them?
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Post by snow on Dec 3, 2019 13:07:17 GMT -5
Mountain- There is no part of my belief that is False as it is direct revelation from God. Perhaps reading Hebrews 10 and understanding WHY Jesus had to come in the flesh might give you some insight. I really want you to get this right , however I do not have that ability. Revelation is God given. Amen! And revelation comes by the indwelling Holy Spirit. So what you and reborn are basically saying is that Mountain doesn't have the indwelling of the holy spirit because his revelation from the same god doesn't match both of your's? How do you determine that, especially when you could be wrong and he could be right? Same God, different revelation. Both given to fallible humans. I'm really curious.
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Post by reborn on Dec 3, 2019 13:07:46 GMT -5
The revelation that God gave me of himself was directly from him. I personally choose to not rely on others articles, books etc...Man is so prone to get things wrong. I pray directly to God with my questions, and it is the thrill of my life that he answers me! Which totally makes it so understandable that man has created so many different Gods to worship and so many different ways with the same God to worship. Everyone goes by their interpretation which they of course think is directly from their God, and seem to forget that someone else claims the same thing only the complete opposite from what was revealed to you. How does that work? How do you know that their revelation is wrong and your's is right, especially when they believe in the same God and are just as passionate about what they feel was revealed to them?
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Post by reborn on Dec 3, 2019 13:12:35 GMT -5
The difference is the Holy Spirit brings the message alive to you personally. There was a time in my life that I did not have the Holy Spirit, and I was void of understanding. God is still speaking to his people, and they hear him. I trust no ones interpretation of anything anymore, and always do a cross check with God in what I believe. We must search the scripture on our own, and then pray to God that he will open it unto us. Once you have a personal revelation from God on anything you feel totally settled, and at peace. You can hear anything in this present, evil world. The only voice we need to hear is Gods.
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Post by snow on Dec 3, 2019 13:47:14 GMT -5
The difference is the Holy Spirit brings the message alive to you personally. There was a time in my life that I did not have the Holy Spirit, and I was void of understanding. God is still speaking to his people, and they hear him. I trust no ones interpretation of anything anymore, and always do a cross check with God in what I believe. We must search the scripture on our own, and then pray to God that he will open it unto us. Once you have a personal revelation from God on anything you feel totally settled, and at peace. You can hear anything in this present, evil world. The only voice we need to hear is Gods. I'm pretty sure that someone getting a different revelation believes the holy spirit brought the message alive for them too. Again, how can you claim that your revelation is right and their's is wrong?
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Post by reborn on Dec 3, 2019 13:49:14 GMT -5
I argue with no one about their revelations. They will stand alone before God and give a account of them. I pass my days in sweet content, totally settled and knowing in whom I have believed.
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Post by snow on Dec 3, 2019 13:58:35 GMT -5
I argue with no one about their revelations. They will stand alone before God and give a account of them. I pass my days in sweet content, totally settled and knowing in whom I have believed. Okay, but you seem to feel that it's okay to tell those who have a different revelation that their revelation is wrong and that you will only believe your revelation. That why I asked how you can be so sure your revelation is right and their revelation is wrong. It seems like something no one can prove.
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Post by reborn on Dec 3, 2019 14:03:48 GMT -5
You are incorrect- I encourage others to seek out God for their revelations.
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Post by snow on Dec 3, 2019 14:12:31 GMT -5
You are incorrect- I encourage others to seek out God for their revelations. Okay, I see you really believe that you do that, but this post to Mountain seemed like you were saying he was wrong and you were right and he should read Hebrews 10 because you really wanted him to get this right. What else is anyone supposed to think when it's pretty clear that you think he's wrong and you are right? Mountain- There is no part of my belief that is False as it is direct revelation from God. Perhaps reading Hebrews 10 and understanding WHY Jesus had to come in the flesh might give you some insight. I really want you to get this right , however I do not have that ability. Revelation is God given.
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Post by reborn on Dec 3, 2019 14:14:02 GMT -5
Exactly! Hugs to you today Snow.
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Post by snow on Dec 3, 2019 14:15:09 GMT -5
Exactly! Hugs to you today Snow. Hugs back at ya!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 3, 2019 14:42:17 GMT -5
Amen! And revelation comes by the indwelling Holy Spirit. So what you and reborn are basically saying is that Mountain doesn't have the indwelling of the holy spirit because his revelation from the same god doesn't match both of your's? How do you determine that, especially when you could be wrong and he could be right? Same God, different revelation. Both given to fallible humans. I'm really curious. No, we’re not saying that. We’re saying that’s how we got ours. It’s not intended to infer anyone doesn’t have the Holy Spirit, but for clarification; the Bible is explicit that things are revealed according to the measure of faith and the usage of the word. Why others don’t get the same revelations are dependent on the Father’s judgment and will. He knows when someone is well able to adapt to or use certain things God reveals. I have no idea what his standards of measures are but according to the Bible it’s what and when the Holy Spirit groans unutterable things for us as he sees our needs. Naturally our needs are different from each other’s.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 3, 2019 14:48:10 GMT -5
You are incorrect- I encourage others to seek out God for their revelations. Okay, I see you really believe that you do that, but this post to Mountain seemed like you were saying he was wrong and you were right and he should read Hebrews 10 because you really wanted him to get this right. What else is anyone supposed to think when it's pretty clear that you think he's wrong and you are right? Mountain- There is no part of my belief that is False as it is direct revelation from God. Perhaps reading Hebrews 10 and understanding WHY Jesus had to come in the flesh might give you some insight. I really want you to get this right , however I do not have that ability. Revelation is God given.In Reborn’s defense this was over some website Mountain posted where who or what the Word was disputed against most Christian’s interpretation or knowledge of that scripture. Reborn was just saying he didn’t trust some unknown earthly connection for the truth about the Bible but that God had revealed to him about the Word, etc.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 3, 2019 15:02:24 GMT -5
His God person is eternal spirit. On the cross he said “Father I commit to you my spirit.” This is the separation of the God person(eternal spirit) from the human; otherwise he could not die. What's the difference between a soul/spirit going to God and his soul going to God. All these things can still happen with a human that God is using as a perfect conduit. There is no need for Jesus to be God for any of what went on. In fact, it makes far more sense if he was a human. It would explain why he felt abandoned more so than what your theory is. It also explains why he lost his temper in the temple, with the money changers. He was perfect but he was good enough. Jesus’ spirit is eternal/everlasting, has been since he was begat by the Father. This is how we are made in God’s image and that is he gave us a spirit. However our spirit from conception is not eternal it is reflected in that we breathe. To become an eternal being we must be born again in the spirit by the Holy Spirit. Jesus did not need or become born again in the spirit by the Spirit because his spirit was eternal as God the Son. Or the only begotten Son of God..from before birth. Jesus’ body was as transfigured before his death. It was an eternal body then, he could have gone to heaven right then. This should help you to understand his resurrection. But our bodies will become corrupt unto dust and ashes, however we will be raised again unto that body like Jesus’ and this is called redemption of our bodies for which our saved spirits await in Paradise until resurrection. Jesus went through life in a very different form then mankind. He took on flesh just so that he could die. Otherwise he could have put on an angelic form just like he did when he appeared before Abraham in Genesis at Abraham’s tent door. But Jesus came to die for our sins. Without obtaining his own body(it had to have been a perfect human being’s body to be the sacrifice, is why he started out as a fetus)God’s only Begotten Son could not have died on the cross and shed human blood for our sins. Put in short human terms, the creator gave his life for his creation.
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Post by Grant on Dec 3, 2019 15:17:47 GMT -5
Okay, I see you really believe that you do that, but this post to Mountain seemed like you were saying he was wrong and you were right and he should read Hebrews 10 because you really wanted him to get this right. What else is anyone supposed to think when it's pretty clear that you think he's wrong and you are right? Mountain- There is no part of my belief that is False as it is direct revelation from God. Perhaps reading Hebrews 10 and understanding WHY Jesus had to come in the flesh might give you some insight. I really want you to get this right , however I do not have that ability. Revelation is God given.In Reborn’s defense this was over some website Mountain posted where who or what the Word was disputed against most Christian’s interpretation or knowledge of that scripture. Reborn was just saying he didn’t trust some unknown earthly connection for the truth about the Bible but that God had revealed to him about the Word, etc. Everyone says they have the Revelation while someone else says they have the Revelation, so whose revelation is true? It comes down to the fact that we are also human, not 100% spiritual. In any 'revelation' our human reasoning and experiences come into play. We could have the same revelation but interpret it differently based on a number of other intervening factors.
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Post by mountain on Dec 3, 2019 17:03:40 GMT -5
Mountain- I was given that verse by Immediately by God when I read your first post that I responded to yesterday. God promised his Holy Spirit to all those who believe, and he certainly has done this for me. I was at work yesterday when given that verse by him, and did not reply to your message until I arrived back home and looked it up in my bible. I do not argue with revelation that God gives me. I see I have a challenger for the Board's Wind Up Crown!
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