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Post by Gene on Feb 19, 2016 19:51:55 GMT -5
To answer the OP -- It depends on what you mean by "good for the kingdom."
Can a visit to an elderly person in a nursing home cheer up that person? Is that "good for the kingdom."
Can a thoughtful, scriptural, compassionate sermon give hope to a person on the verge of despair? Is that "good for the kingdom?"
Can the reappropriation of a church trust fund to help a family dealing with a devastating illness and insufficient health care insurance be "good for the kingdom?"
Can a "perverted worker" do those things?
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Post by magpie on Feb 25, 2016 0:08:00 GMT -5
Gene,Judas followers can not carry Judas fall on their shoulders. As to your other good points,often you hear he/she is a hopeless case,they forget the thief on the cross don't they? Often the greatest thing we can do as an individual or church is to find out "why"that person is in desperate circumstances or need. Like the derro homeless guy in Sydney who every day went around the streets and chalked the word "ETERNITY"on the pavement.. Prior to that, he had entered a coffee wayside stop,(non-denominational set up for abandoned,abused and homeless) in the middle of the night to get a free feed and drink. His greatest story was "I went in to get cake and coffee,but came out with the bread of life".
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Post by dmmichgood on Feb 25, 2016 2:14:35 GMT -5
Gene,Judas followers can not carry Judas fall on their shoulders. As to your other good points,often you hear he/she is a hopeless case,they forget the thief on the cross don't they? Often the greatest thing we can do as an individual or church is to find out "why"that person is in desperate circumstances or need. Like the derro homeless guy in Sydney who every day went around the streets and chalked the word "ETERNITY"on the pavement.. Prior to that, he had entered a coffee wayside stop,(non-denominational set up for abandoned,abused and homeless) in the middle of the night to get a free feed and drink. His greatest story was "I went in to get cake and coffee,but came out with the bread of life". What do you mean by the term "derro" in your statement, "derro homeless guy?" I never heard that term before.
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Post by Roselyn T on Feb 25, 2016 2:17:26 GMT -5
Gene,Judas followers can not carry Judas fall on their shoulders. As to your other good points,often you hear he/she is a hopeless case,they forget the thief on the cross don't they? Often the greatest thing we can do as an individual or church is to find out "why"that person is in desperate circumstances or need. Like the derro homeless guy in Sydney who every day went around the streets and chalked the word "ETERNITY"on the pavement.. Prior to that, he had entered a coffee wayside stop,(non-denominational set up for abandoned,abused and homeless) in the middle of the night to get a free feed and drink. His greatest story was "I went in to get cake and coffee,but came out with the bread of life". What do you mean by the term "derro" in your statement, "derro homeless guy?" I never heard that term before.Its aussie slang !! Means a bit slow ?
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Post by sharingtheriches on Mar 2, 2016 21:23:35 GMT -5
I don't know...Judas would be a good example to what happens to a servant that goes astray though.... You better get busy handing out rope then Wally. . Why are any workers allowed to stay in the work after having multiple sexual liaisons regardless of ages of partners?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2016 21:39:43 GMT -5
You better get busy handing out rope then Wally. . Why are any workers allowed to stay in the work after having multiple sexual liaisons regardless of ages of partners? well current ex-2x2 theory is shortage of workers...do with that what you will...
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Post by fixit on Mar 2, 2016 21:46:18 GMT -5
. Why are any workers allowed to stay in the work after having multiple sexual liaisons regardless of ages of partners? well current ex-2x2 theory is shortage of workers...do with that what you will... I'm reminded of Dale Gardner's letter...
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Post by rational on Mar 3, 2016 10:16:20 GMT -5
well current ex-2x2 theory is shortage of workers...do with that what you will... I'm reminded of Dale Gardner's letter... Does this represent the current thinking or the thinking decades ago?
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Post by fixit on Mar 3, 2016 15:23:25 GMT -5
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Post by sharingtheriches on Mar 3, 2016 15:24:33 GMT -5
Appears to still go on....unless pressure is to remove them. Most churches of Today don't tolerate fornicating preachers..they get defrocked for life because sex between clergy and parishioners still considered rape. Rape of spiritual ideals as well as rape because of leader making sex allwhen it iisn't. The workers need to learn this
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Post by SharonArnold on Mar 3, 2016 15:55:43 GMT -5
I'm reminded of Dale Gardner's letter... Does this represent the current thinking or the thinking decades ago? Well, since there is no "official position", as long as individual workers are still alive, then it represents (in some part) current thinking. I believe Tom Young is still alive. So are a number with much more extreme positions than he has.
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Post by magpie on Mar 3, 2016 17:02:34 GMT -5
Listen to Fixit. It has never changed,I am in my 8th decade,only difference today cover ups and deciept is found out easier,and thanks to I.T.the news is spread around.Funny how people will try and discredits Fixit's postings.
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Post by Gene on Mar 3, 2016 19:50:15 GMT -5
You better get busy handing out rope then Wally. . Why are any workers allowed to stay in the work after having multiple sexual liaisons regardless of ages of partners? Great to hear from you, StR!!!
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Post by magpie on Mar 3, 2016 20:12:01 GMT -5
All are preaching a perverted Theology,Judgemental exclusivism is a perversion of Jesus and Apostolic teachings. So can there be any good in Irvines doctorine?
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Post by rational on Mar 3, 2016 22:13:31 GMT -5
Listen to Fixit. It has never changed,I am in my 8th decade,only difference today cover ups and deciept is found out easier,and thanks to I.T.the news is spread around.Funny how people will try and discredits Fixit's postings. I don't see anyone trying to discredit fixit. Do you think people like Dale and others realize at this point that much of the abuse could have been avoided had they reported the crime to the authorities? This is the change that will make the most difference.
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Post by Gene on Mar 4, 2016 5:57:25 GMT -5
Listen to Fixit. It has never changed,I am in my 8th decade,only difference today cover ups and deciept is found out easier,and thanks to I.T.the news is spread around.Funny how people will try and discredits Fixit's postings. I don't see anyone trying to discredit fixit . Do you think people like Dale and others realize at this point that much of the abuse could have been avoided had they reported the crime to the authorities? This is the change that will make the most difference. My memory may be faulty and I don't have Dale's letter readily at hand, but I didn't think his complaints were about crimes, but rather about what he and the church generally consider to be immorality.
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Post by rational on Mar 4, 2016 9:02:34 GMT -5
I don't see anyone trying to discredit fixit . Do you think people like Dale and others realize at this point that much of the abuse could have been avoided had they reported the crime to the authorities? This is the change that will make the most difference. My memory may be faulty and I don't have Dale's letter readily at hand, but I didn't think his complaints were about crimes, but rather about what he and the church generally consider to be immorality. Not reporting CSA is a crime. Protecting criminals is a crime. Sexually molesting people is a crime. The problem was that the solution being attempted was taking a spiritual approach. You can quote the bible as a solution but the bottom line is that it is a crime and it was never addressed as such. But in a way you are right - the complaints were not about the actual crimes.
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Post by Gene on Mar 4, 2016 10:54:55 GMT -5
My memory may be faulty and I don't have Dale's letter readily at hand, but I didn't think his complaints were about crimes, but rather about what he and the church generally consider to be immorality. Not reporting CSA is a crime. Protecting criminals is a crime. Sexually molesting people is a crime. The problem was that the solution being attempted was taking a spiritual approach. You can quote the bible as a solution but the bottom line is that it is a crime and it was never addressed as such. But in a way you are right - the complaints were not about the actual crimes. I found his letters -- you're right, he referred to both crimes and "immorality" -- which may or may not be a crime. IMHO, a worker who is in ANY consenting sexual relationship is guilty of immorality.
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Post by fixit on Mar 4, 2016 15:30:24 GMT -5
Listen to Fixit. It has never changed,I am in my 8th decade,only difference today cover ups and deciept is found out easier,and thanks to I.T.the news is spread around.Funny how people will try and discredits Fixit's postings. I don't see anyone trying to discredit fixit. Do you think people like Dale and others realize at this point that much of the abuse could have been avoided had they reported the crime to the authorities? This is the change that will make the most difference. Yes, instead of reporting sexual crimes to the workers, they should be reported to the authorities. This change of mindset requires education around the topic of child sexual abuse. Have workers made any progress since the Melbourne Age spoke with David Leitch in 2013?
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Post by Mary on Mar 4, 2016 16:13:58 GMT -5
Back in Dale's day victims were not believed and going to the police was hardly seen as helpful. Now they have special units for sexual abuse cases.
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Post by magpie on Mar 4, 2016 16:31:25 GMT -5
Rationale,you asked "is this current thinking or thinking of decades ago. Well things are appearing to wax worse,only because many Criminal Child Sexual Abuses are being recognised and more outside help is known. When we were young it was thought that some demonic power had taken over our brains,to even say such a thing happened.But it is questions like yours that poke little holes in a story. As the story goes down the line,2x2s try and try and make the hole bigger,casting little questions and doubts.
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Post by fixit on Mar 4, 2016 16:36:07 GMT -5
Back in Dale's day victims were not believed and going to the police was hardly seen as helpful. Now they have special units for sexual abuse cases. Good point Mary. The secular world has made a lot of progress. Religious groups have some catching up to do.
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Post by fixit on Mar 4, 2016 16:38:56 GMT -5
Rationale,you asked "is this current thinking or thinking of decades ago. Well things are appearing to wax worse,only because many Criminal Child Sexual Abuses are being recognised and more outside help is known. When we were young it was thought that some demonic power had taken over our brains,to even say such a thing happened.But it is questions like yours that poke little holes in a story. As the story goes down the line,2x2s try and try and make the hole bigger,casting little questions and doubts. If a child is sexually abused by those who are claimed to be God's messengers, and then told he/she is possessed by a demonic power, could that lead to Satan worship?
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Post by rational on Mar 5, 2016 7:43:45 GMT -5
Back in Dale's day victims were not believed and going to the police was hardly seen as helpful. Now they have special units for sexual abuse cases. And that is the danger of judging actions/behaviors from decades ago by the standards of today. I am sure Dale did what he felt was right.
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Post by rational on Mar 5, 2016 7:46:34 GMT -5
Rationale,you asked "is this current thinking or thinking of decades ago. Well things are appearing to wax worse,only because many Criminal Child Sexual Abuses are being recognised and more outside help is known. When we were young it was thought that some demonic power had taken over our brains,to even say such a thing happened.But it is questions like yours that poke little holes in a story. As the story goes down the line,2x2s try and try and make the hole bigger,casting little questions and doubts. If a child is sexually abused by those who are claimed to be God's messengers, and then told he/she is possessed by a demonic power, could that lead to Satan worship? I think the media are the only ones making a case for satan worship. If for some reason you stop believing in god there is little to be gained, other than the shock value, ir jumping to another paranormal entity.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2016 18:03:04 GMT -5
Virginia's head worker stated in a letter that he didn't want to take away from the good things that an ex-overseer of that state had 'done for the Kingdom".
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