hberry
Senior Member
Posts: 743
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Post by hberry on Dec 3, 2015 10:28:14 GMT -5
That was my experience also (all 6 decades worth) and it is a joy to attend a church where the pastor teaches biblical truths in depth...no metaphors, no "stories"--all scripture. stories and metaphors are just tools to help people understand something that they normally wouldn't...they also help to see whos paying attention...
Mat_13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
I've never needed stories to pay attention, and I am able to understand what is being taught without the use of metaphor. However, all of us are different, and it is wonderful that God has a place that meets the needs of each of His children.
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tom
Junior Member
Posts: 82
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Post by tom on Dec 3, 2015 15:23:50 GMT -5
Somehow, many of the current workers believe the word God refers only to the Father and NOT the Son, and they don't understand the Godhead so it's get a little confusion. Therefore, the Anti-Trinity believers growing in numbers among the workers and the friends. They believe the Father is God and Jesus is ONLY the son so he is NOT God. They do not have a clear understanding, many of the friends just believe what they heard from the workers at convention, in the gospel meetings as the gospel truth without searching these things for themselves. However, there were/are some workers, who have a better understanding and grasp of the Godhead so they tried to educate the friends
Nathan just because they don't agree with you does not mean that they don't understand. I think they undestand perfectly well what is written in the Bible but you just cant accept that they think differently to you.
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Post by rational on Dec 3, 2015 18:50:20 GMT -5
Quite important to remember context as well. In Jesus' day there was no new Testament, just the Old Law which pointed completely to Him. His point was that there was little point in studying the OT if they didn't accept the One who was not only fulfilling all the OT Scripture but would give them life. There were many things in the OT which defined the Messiah. There is the possibility that Jesus was rejected because he didn't qualify. For example: Specifically, the Bible says he will:
- Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
- Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
- Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
- Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world – on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).
If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, then he cannot be the Messiah.
Conflicts in belief like this can generate a lot of friction, especially when the proclaimed Messiah for one group is supposed to be the Messiah of another group.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2015 19:10:17 GMT -5
depends on your interpretation of those verses...I see promises for the new heaven and new earth nothing more...
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Post by fixit on Dec 3, 2015 20:06:51 GMT -5
I didn't advocate biblical ignorance. However, who do you think Jesus had the most appreciation for in the scripture I quote below? Quite important to remember context as well. In Jesus' day there was no new Testament, just the Old Law which pointed completely to Him. His point was that there was little point in studying the OT if they didn't accept the One who was not only fulfilling all the OT Scripture but would give them life. Of course, today 2000+ years on, Christ is not physically with us. We only know about Him, who He and why He is worthy of our worship because of the NT. In the NT we read that: All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. (1 Tim 3:16); and For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. (Heb 4:12) If we don't know and study God's word, difficult to apply it and live it....but equally pointless to study it if we don't apply it and try to live it. God's word is his voice. Are you saying God's word can be read?
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Post by fixit on Dec 3, 2015 21:45:38 GMT -5
Nathan just because they don't agree with you does not mean that they don't understand. I think they undestand perfectly well what is written in the Bible but you just cant accept that they think differently to you. No, they don't think different from me but also differently from most of the early workers and the friends teaching on the Trinity... Most of the early workers believed and taught the Trinity, Jesus is Divine/God.... Most of the workers and friends today are anti-trinity believers, and they don't believe Jesus is Divine/God. There are workers and overseers today teach Jesus fully God and fully man. Many workers and overseers teach Jesus is our elder brother, he is the Son of God but NOT God.2x2friendsworkers.proboards.com/thread/8/word-god-refer-father?page=1Nathan, I suggest you get your hands on a hymn concordance or find one online. Search for the word divine, and then come back and tell us that most workers and friends believe Jesus is not divine. It's true that most F&W wouldn't refer to Mary as Mother of God though.
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Post by fixit on Dec 3, 2015 23:34:38 GMT -5
1) Nathan, I suggest you get your hands on a hymn concordance or find one online. Search for the word divine, and then come back and tell us that most workers and friends believe Jesus is not divine. ~~ NathanB: Here's the dictionary the meaning of the word divine.di-vine adjective, diviner, divinest. 1. of or relating to a god, especially the Supreme Being. 2. addressed, appropriated, or devoted to God or a god; religious; sacred: divine worship.
3. proceeding from God or a god: divine laws; divine guidance. 4. godlike; characteristic of or befitting a deity: divine magnanimity.
5. heavenly; celestial: the divine kingdom.dictionary.reference.com/browse/divine2) It's true that most F&W wouldn't refer to Mary as Mother of God though. Before! Jesus was born in Luke 2:46-47. Mary said, " My soul doth magnify the Lord, and my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior." Mary called her yet unborn son, Jesus... the Lord and God my Savior. Mary is the EARTHLY mother of the person Jesus, who is God and Man. Before Jesus birth, Mary knew he was her Lord, God and Savior. Nathan, why do you think F&W have so many hymns that refer to Jesus as divine?
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Post by jondough on Dec 4, 2015 9:03:15 GMT -5
If you want to really know how the F&W beleive today, you just need to go back and read Nathan's exchange of post with Review. I believe Review does in fact believe that Jesus is Devine. He is Devine, but not THE God. I think they condider Devine more of a spiritual, Heavenly being, rather than a God, or THE God. They consider God (whom there is only one) THE God that rules all.
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hberry
Senior Member
Posts: 743
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Post by hberry on Dec 4, 2015 10:38:11 GMT -5
If you want to really know how the F&W beleive today, you just need to go back and read Nathan's exchange of post with Review. I believe Review does in fact believe that Jesus is Devine. He is Devine, but not THE God. I think they condider Devine more of a spiritual, Heavenly being, rather than a God, or THE God. They consider God (whom there is only one) THE God that rules all. It seems to me that the essence of the disagreement hinges on one's definition of divine. Created vs eternal. I know from my years in the fellowship that the older brother workers believed (if you could pin them down in private conversation) that Jesus was created, not eternal, so being divine means something different to them than for those who believe divinity implies eternal existence.
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Post by Grant on Dec 4, 2015 14:39:52 GMT -5
Why not hand down knowledge from one generation to the next and share or teach it or is it that that can only be done by workers? What is wrong devoting a few years to studying the Bible and learning from others. The Bible was written nearly 2,000 years ago and we think we have it right? Again the workers ignorance and lack of understanding the Bible is obvious. If the workers don't do it then it is wrong. Their lack of understanding and pastoral care shows. They need some teaching to equip them for ministry. Why put a younger worker with an older one? I thought it was so the younger could learn from the older but apparently learning from those who have gone before is not allowed.
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