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Post by jondough on Dec 1, 2015 22:06:23 GMT -5
I don't know, why would you? I didn't predict the end/day was Dec, 21 2012... That day was predicted by Mayan Calender. You missed read my post, JD. You said I predicted when I didn't. You jumped the gun and I have corrected your misunderstanding about what I posted and you keep on saying I predicted the day Dec, 21 2012. Jesus said clearly in the gospel that no angel, or man even himself no the hour or time when He returns.You clearly said that AFTER this specific date, to hold on to our seat-belts. Major things were going to happen. I didn't say that you said the end was on that date. Your predictions were wrong. Nothing has happened. Its been calm. We have not needed to "hang on to our seat-belts". Its now been 3 years. And yes, it would be nice to hear you say.."oops, i made a mistake" rather than make exuses, or say that I misunderstood you. Thats why I cut and pasted your old post. So you couldn't deny it.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 1, 2015 22:47:58 GMT -5
3 hours ago NathanB said: William Irvine was a Faith Mission Pilgrim/Worker from 1895-1901, then he became the 2x2 worker in 1901. This is a YES or NO question, Nathan. Does that make William Irvine unreliable?
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Post by jondough on Dec 1, 2015 22:50:29 GMT -5
You clearly said that AFTER this specific date, to hold on to our seat-belts. Major things were going to happen. I didn't say that you said the end was on that date.
Your predictions were wrong. Nothing has happened. Its been calm. We have not needed to "hang on to our seat-belts". Its now been 3 years. And yes, it would be nice to hear you say.."oops, i made a mistake" rather than make exuses, or say that I misunderstood you. Thats why I cut and pasted your old post. So you couldn't deny it. Oh, John Dough..... You have disappointed me, you're a better man than this. Let me clarify for you one more time. 3 years ago Dec. 21, 2012 was a BIG thing! People were talking about it all over the world. So, if you read my whole post again I see what I wrote that terrible events already happened before 2012 so it is NOT the END! but Things will get worse AFTER 2012. If I were predicting the end in Dec. 21, 2012 then why would I say things will get worse AFTER 2012. That is why I showed you in my post I wasn't predicting the end of the world, I say things will get worse AFTER 2012 and it has... but the worse Yet to come... The Wrath of God pour out on the earth.
You are looking for my old posts to prove I make mistakes so you picked this Dec 21, 2012. You picked the wrong one, JD. Nathan, read what I wrote in red.
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Post by jondough on Dec 1, 2015 22:51:45 GMT -5
I think we are having a communication problem
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Post by jondough on Dec 1, 2015 22:56:34 GMT -5
NathanB Avatar Dec 20, 2012 at 7:48pm NathanB said: rational Avatar
Dec 20, 2012 at 7:32pm rational said: Interesting to see the waffling as December 21, 2012, comes and goes. No longer is this the day but it is a day and there are dangers before and after. Nathan is now saying that 2013 will be worse than 2012. I wonder if at the end of 2013 we will be hearing from Nathan that 2014 is when things will really get bad. And what will all of the talking heads Nathan posts have to say when December 22 arrives? And the earth is not struck by an imaginary planet/comet/whatever.
Nathan: Like I wrote before, it get worse and worse from now unti the BIG BANG! not the big bang theory! ;D but God's BIG BANG! His wrath on the people of this earth (Revelation chapter 16). Maybe the BIG BANG! will open your eyes, Rational to FINALLY see Who God is. You might live during God's Wrath pour out on the ungodly, atheists, unbelievers, fearful, etc.. You might get your wish to SEE God as PROOF in Action.
It seems I'm not the only one having communication problems with you.
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Post by jondough on Dec 1, 2015 22:58:01 GMT -5
But if you are sticking by this Nathan, I ask you again;
What has gotten worse since Dec 21, 2012?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2015 23:11:46 GMT -5
But if you are sticking by this Nathan, I ask you again; What has gotten worse since Dec 21, 2012? look around you the world is in a mess including the USA Isis, drug legalization, gay marriage etc...etc...
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hberry
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Post by hberry on Dec 1, 2015 23:52:40 GMT -5
I think we are having a communication problem To quote from a venerable source: "what we've got here is a failure to communicate." But kudos to you for trying.
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Post by howitis on Dec 2, 2015 0:28:54 GMT -5
Eccl 7:10
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Post by rational on Dec 2, 2015 2:08:15 GMT -5
You clearly said that AFTER this specific date, to hold on to our seat-belts. Major things were going to happen. I didn't say that you said the end was on that date. Your predictions were wrong. Nothing has happened. Its been calm. We have not needed to "hang on to our seat-belts". Its now been 3 years. And yes, it would be nice to hear you say.."oops, i made a mistake" rather than make exuses, or say that I misunderstood you. Thats why I cut and pasted your old post. So you couldn't deny it. Oh, John Dough..... You have disappointed me, you're a better man than this. Let me clarify for you one more time. 3 years ago Dec. 21, 2012 was a BIG thing! People were talking about it all over the world. So, if you read my whole post again I see what I wrote that terrible events already happened before 2012 so it is NOT the END! but Things will get worse AFTER 2012. If I were predicting the end in Dec. 21, 2012 then why would I say things will get worse AFTER 2012. That is why I showed you in my post I wasn't predicting the end of the world, I say things will get worse AFTER 2012 and it has... but the worse Yet to come... The Wrath of God pour out on the earth.
You are looking for my old posts to prove I make mistakes so you picked this Dec 21, 2012. You picked the wrong one, JD. NathanB, why not just admit that you, along with many people, were wrong? It was not a big thing except for the people who profited from spreading the story. You did say things would get worse following December 21, 2012. Now that time has passed - what is worse? Back up your statement that things following December 21, 2012, will get much worse. Or you could do what any adult would do and admit you made a mistake in your claim that December 21, 2012 was a date any different than June 25, 2011 or January 13, 2013.
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Post by rational on Dec 2, 2015 2:14:20 GMT -5
.... and then the next verses....... there was nothing and nothing happened to nothing and then nothing magically exploded for no reason, creating everything and then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself for no reason what so ever into self-replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs. Makes perfect sense .............. ah I think I mixed up books again...... Cheers I don't think you have mixed up any books. From what you posted you could benefit from reading a book about the current theories regarding the creation of the universe. The big bang was not an explosion. The combination of the initial elements was not magical but governed by the well known laws of physics. However, the initial self-replication of RNA did eventually lead to dinosaurs. At least you did get some of the facts correct.
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Post by maryhig on Dec 2, 2015 4:21:51 GMT -5
Yes JD we do, to me the bread and wine are symbolic. They are symbols of taking the life of Jesus in, then living it out. We must do this spiritually as well as naturally. Paul said 1 Corinthians 11 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. When Jesus broke the bread he said to eat it in remembrance of him, that's remembering his life. He didn't say on rememberance of his death at Calvary. He said in rememberance of him! Also, when he gave the cup. He said the cup was the new testament in his blood this do you, as often as you drink it in rememberance of me. Again, it's in rememberance of him, not in his death on the cross! Jesus had already laid down his life before he went on the cross, he had already finished the work that the father had given him to do. He was already dead to this world. This world had nothing in him. He also said it was the cup of the new testament, not the cup of his death on a wooden cross. The new testament is a new covenant and when we partake in this covenant we partake in his death and become alive in God. Look at the last sentence above in 1 Corinthians 11 (above) Paul said For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. So as often as we eat the bread and drink from the cup, we show the lords death till he comes. That isn't the death on the cross that we show, we aren't crucified. We show death to self. By partaking in the bread and drinking from the cup we are spiritually taking in the life of Jesus, and if we are doing that, then that life within us will be putting our old man to death by the spirit and replacing us with the new man. Our thoughts and ways will be changing because we will be walking in spirit not in flesh, dying to the world but alive in God. And the spirit of Christ will be living through us, because he will be alive in us, and we will be alive in God! They are symbolic to me as well. Sorry about using your name as an example of someone that doesn’t meet with us (F&W). I can imagine your eyes must have got twice the size when seeing your name used about like this. I was only trying to use a more specific example to Nathan when he says that anyone that doesn’t meet with his/our fellowship is not saved unless they eventually come around (if they have a right heart) and profess through a Worker. Seems rather foolish when Christ words never said such a thing. He said we are saved through HIM. Thanks again, JD Ah, it's ok, no worries. It wasn't you personally I meant either. It was the whole thing. But it's done now and gone. Thank you anyway. I'm like you, i believe we're saved through Christ, I don't believe it's only a certain denomination that's saved. I believe it's all those who love God with all their hearts and are following Jesus. Jesus' parable of the Good Samaritan shows Jesus came and brought together, not to pull apart, the thing he wants us to part from is sin, not each other. As you may know, the Jews and the samaritans didn't get along. Yet for his parable Jesus used a Samaritan with a good heart. Also the woman at the well, the deciples wondered why he would be talking to her. Yet that woman once she heard him brought many men from the city to Jesus. That was probably like Jesus using the Catholics and protestants of Belfast today in a parable. And I've experienced Belfast, I lived there for a while as a child in the 7Os and I love the people. My mum knew people from both sides as she hadn't been brought up in the troubles and cared for both. And they, both Catholics and protestants had good hearted people in them, but the hatred runs deep and religion is used as a tool. But i believe from my heart that God isn't like that. He loves all of us. And Jesus told his deciples to go out into all the world and preach the gospel, not just to a few. And it says in the bible, for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son. God loves all of us. My beliefs are different to others, yes. But I don't believe people are going to hell for that. How can someone who loves God from the depths of their heart go to hell? Those who are living right before him whatever religion they are? I really believe that Jesus came as an example to show us the way to live and love. He showed us God. And we'll do that too, if we are following him, we'll be showing Christ to others. I care for everyone not just my own. I believe the teachings of those around me in our meeting are true as I see the love of God in them, and Christ in their lives. Yet I don't believe we are exclusive. I believe the more we deny this world and the flesh, the stronger we become in God. Yet those who love God are his. And we all have different strengths making up one body. Not one religion. Gods people do an amazing job bringing God to others, people like your workers, but we are saved through Christ Jesus, it's the spirit in the heart that does the saving, not the man. I read this following paragraph in an article about Jews and Samaritans. Quote: There are countless modern parallels to the Jewish-Samaritan enmity—indeed, wherever peoples are divided by racial and ethnic barriers. Perhaps that’s why the Gospels and Acts provide so many instances of Samaritans coming into contact with the message of Jesus. It is not the person from the radically different culture on the other side of the world that is hardest to love, but the nearby neighbor whose skin color, language, rituals, values, ancestry, history, and customs are different from one’s own. I agree with this, we shouldn't be fighting over which religion is right, but getting our own hearts right before God. No wonder Jesus said love thy neighbour as thyself, because they are probably hardest to love! I.e. Catholics and protestants in Belfast. But God joins together. There are protestants and Catholics from Belfast in our meeting, and a lady from the republic of Ireland. Theres no way you would see them come together in a religious sense in Ireland, but in God they have. I am like you JD, I believe God is love. And it doesn't matter what others think of us, we just show his love to them. Whatever they believe!
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Post by Roselyn T on Dec 2, 2015 4:46:31 GMT -5
nathan, that is YOUR website, not a reliable source or eyewitness account ! You don't even live in Australia so how can you have an eyewitness ?
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Post by Roselyn T on Dec 2, 2015 4:50:18 GMT -5
Nate - I think you like to believe this but it's not factual. I think it would be more correct to say that most workers and friends do not regard Jesus as God. There are clearly a number who do but it seems that it is in the minority, downunder at least, these days. It is also correct to say that there are hymns which worship Jesus. Workers and friends do sing these hymns but do not necessarily worship Jesus as God when they sing these hymns. I think we need to be careful about definitive conclusions. It appears that there is a trend away from the Trinity as we know it in the 2x2's which has been occurring for a number of years. I don't think this is necessarily a well thought through position by most - it is simply a anti or negative reaction to Christian doctrines that other Christian churches uphold. I believe you are right Ross.Bowden, nathan likes to think what he believes is right, even when it is NOT factual ! Or even when the biggest percentage of people in the church he belongs to disagree with him !
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Post by rational on Dec 2, 2015 8:00:32 GMT -5
I believe you are right Ross.Bowden, nathan likes to think what he believes is right, even when it is NOT factual ! Or even when the biggest percentage of people in the church he belongs to disagree with him ! Everyone likes to think what they believe is right. If you didn't think your beliefs were correct why would you consider them to be your beliefs?
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Post by jondough on Dec 2, 2015 8:05:37 GMT -5
But if you are sticking by this Nathan, I ask you again; What has gotten worse since Dec 21, 2012? look around you the world is in a mess including the USA Isis, drug legalization, gay marriage etc...etc...
So everything was perfect until Dec 21, 2012...then all of a sudden on Dec 21, 2012 all this happened? Please have a look at the history books. ISIS is happening today. You don't think there has been anything like this before Dec 21, 2012?
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Post by jondough on Dec 2, 2015 8:28:05 GMT -5
Nathan,
Are you trying to turn this thread into another cut and paste Trinity thread?
There is a "Trinity" thread just for that. Just bring it up by re-posting it.
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Scripture
Dec 2, 2015 8:38:24 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by slowtosee on Dec 2, 2015 8:38:24 GMT -5
.... and then the next verses....... there was nothing and nothing happened to nothing and then nothing magically exploded for no reason, creating everything and then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself for no reason what so ever into self-replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs. Makes perfect sense .............. ah I think I mixed up books again...... Cheers I don't think you have mixed up any books. From what you posted you could benefit from reading a book about the current theories regarding the creation of the universe. The big bang was not an explosion. The combination of the initial elements was not magical but governed by the well known laws of physics. However, the initial self-replication of RNA did eventually lead to dinosaurs. At least you did get some of the facts correct. I agree. Lots of better theories out there and totally agree i could benefit from reading lots more books. Never stop learning whether from books , life, conversing with people etc etc. Might be some danger for myself that I could get educated beyond my intelligence. Alvin
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Post by jondough on Dec 2, 2015 8:49:50 GMT -5
Nathan, Are you trying to turn this thread into another cut and paste Trinity thread? There is a "Trinity" thread just for that. Just bring it up by re-posting it. I just answering Ross and RT posts... If you don't like JD, just skip it. This is her thread, so please, don't tell us what we can and can't reply each other posts. OK. It was just a friendly reminder. I believe Admin created that thread specifically for you so every time you are tempted to turn another thread into a long Cut & Paste Trinity thread, you could just pull it up. But reply as you must.
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Post by SharonArnold on Dec 2, 2015 12:46:36 GMT -5
Might be some danger for myself that I could get educated beyond my intelligence. Alvin Ha! I think we all struggle with this one!
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Post by jondough on Dec 2, 2015 18:02:14 GMT -5
OK. It was just a friendly reminder. I believe Admin created that thread specifically for you so every time you are tempted to turn another thread into a long Cut & Paste Trinity thread, you could just pull it up. But reply as you must. No, I don't need or want anyone to create the Trinity thread for me. I will answer as I go, if you or those like you do not like it, you can always use the ignore button, skip READING my posts. There are other readers beside you... Perhaps, they read my trinity post/s for the first time. Thanks, for your friendly reminder, and concerns... Just skip reading my trinity posts if you already read it before.I would never ignore you Nathan. I think most of your post are very interesting, and I love hearing your takes. I love that you whole-hardheartedly and passionately believe what you believe. Keep posting. I just get frustrated sometimes with your repeated cut & paste...but so long as admin allows it, its my problem not yours. Please don't take it personal that I debate you. This is part of the reason we are here. To hear all points of view. I did take it personal when you thought that I should leave the fellowship, but again, that's my problem not yours. Have a Good day! JD
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Post by harcal on Dec 2, 2015 20:46:33 GMT -5
Everyone likes to think what they believe is right. If you didn't think your beliefs were correct why would you consider them to be your beliefs? Clearly, but in Nate's case he knows and believes (as acknowledged by his subsequent post) that workers' beliefs on the Trinity have changed substantially over the years and that most now reject the doctrine. He would like to believe that this was not the case and quotes one or two examples to give the impression that it hasn't changed as much as it has. No wonder everyone's so confused about what workers believe and don't believe? Maybe the problem is they don't know Ross, I think they know what they believe. I know that the majority of workers do not believe in the trinity. They do mention this quite a bit in subtle ways... which is fine with me, as I don't believe in the trinity either. However, there never seems to be any teaching on who Jesus was before he was born, etc. If he's not God, then was he an angel? Who exactly was he BEFORE he was born? My feeling is that the workers don't think it's necessary to delve into doctrine too much. To me this is frustrating. There's so little substance to Gospel Meetings IMO. The workers talk, but seem to gloss over wonderful truths right before their eyes in the bible. It's really odd to me. It's almost as if they purposefully gloss over bible passages. I sometimes wonder if they are afraid to 'rock the boat'. I don't know. This would be an interesting discussion to have I suppose.
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Post by fred on Dec 2, 2015 21:45:50 GMT -5
Agreed.
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hberry
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Post by hberry on Dec 2, 2015 21:49:47 GMT -5
That was my experience also (all 6 decades worth) and it is a joy to attend a church where the pastor teaches biblical truths in depth...no metaphors, no "stories"--all scripture.
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Post by fixit on Dec 2, 2015 23:38:17 GMT -5
Ross, have you considered the attributes God is looking for in his children?
I doubt that biblical knowledge and theological knowledge are as important as you seem to suggest.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2015 23:52:39 GMT -5
That was my experience also (all 6 decades worth) and it is a joy to attend a church where the pastor teaches biblical truths in depth...no metaphors, no "stories"--all scripture. stories and metaphors are just tools to help people understand something that they normally wouldn't...they also help to see whos paying attention...
Mat_13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
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Post by Grant on Dec 3, 2015 0:59:30 GMT -5
Ross, have you considered the attributes God is looking for in his children? I doubt that biblical knowledge and theological knowledge are as important as you seem to suggest. So you prefer Biblical ignorance over Biblical knowledge? The workers could well do with some Biblical knowledge. It shows in their preaching which has no depth or substance. Parables are different from made up childish stories.
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Post by fixit on Dec 3, 2015 5:59:19 GMT -5
Ross, have you considered the attributes God is looking for in his children? I doubt that biblical knowledge and theological knowledge are as important as you seem to suggest. So you prefer Biblical ignorance over Biblical knowledge? The workers could well do with some Biblical knowledge. It shows in their preaching which has no depth or substance. Parables are different from made up childish stories. I didn't advocate biblical ignorance. However, who do you think Jesus had the most appreciation for in the scripture I quote below?
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