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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 26, 2015 19:02:34 GMT -5
This is nathan's view of this scripture: "I believe the Bible does mention about the "Hollow earth= Under the earth".... Paul wrote in Philippians 2:9-11 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things on earth, and things UNDER the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 26, 2015 22:36:44 GMT -5
This is nathan's view of this scripture: "I believe the Bible does mention about the "Hollow earth= Under the earth".... Paul wrote in Philippians 2:9-11 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things on earth, and things UNDER the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Same explanation goes to this passage as applies to Genesis 1 -- according to the Greek concept of creation, which Paul would have certainly known. We had a picture of it on here a while back, and it wasn't a hollow sphere. The naivety of some people is mind boggling.
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 27, 2015 0:16:11 GMT -5
nathan have you ever said this at a Sunday morning meeting ! "Jesus Christ the Almighty God lives on the planet of Venus with His created human looking angels/messengers! Race of Venusians for thousands and perhaps, millions of years." So now Jesus lives on Venus !!
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 27, 2015 0:43:45 GMT -5
nathan, where does it say Jesus lives on Venus in the Bible ? Once again you are cherry picking verses to suit what you want to believe, yet if some one is gay, the Bible is your number one reference. What about all the books that have been written about why people are gay, is it just the youtube videos YOU watch that are right ?
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 27, 2015 0:50:10 GMT -5
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 27, 2015 1:00:20 GMT -5
You didn't answer the question nathan !
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 27, 2015 1:25:57 GMT -5
You didn't answer the question nathan ! In Gen chapters 17,18 and 19 Christ the Lord God appeared in human body, with two humans-looking angels. Christ the Lord talked with Abraham and Sarah face to face. The two human angels left Abraham and Christ, they went and rescued Lot's family.
According to Dead Sea Scrolls... The two angels came from the planet Venus where Valiant Thor came from also.
So where does it say that in the Bible ?
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 27, 2015 2:20:55 GMT -5
And they didn't know that God created gay people, so that is why it was left out of the Bible !
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 27, 2015 2:24:56 GMT -5
Evidence History Lessons Jesus affirmed a gay couple. Matthew 8:5-13 Ruth loved Naomi as Adam loved Eve. Genesis 2:24, Ruth 1:14 Jesus said some are born gay. Matthew 19:10-12 The early church welcomed a gay man. Acts 8:26-40 David loved Jonathan more than women. II Samuel 1:26 Romans 1:21-28 Leviticus 18 and 20 Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 19 & Jude 7) I Corinthians 6:9-10 and I Timothy 1:10 Jesus said some are born gay. Here Jesus refers to "eunuchs who have been so from birth." This terminology ("born eunuchs") was used in the ancient world to refer to homosexual men. Jesus indicates that being a "born eunuch" is a gift from God. Listen to a sermon on this topic: Download The Children Are Free: Reexamining the Biblical Evidence on Same-sex Relationships This text is an excerpt from The Children Are Free: Reexamining the Biblical Evidence on Same-sex Relationships. It’s available from Amazon.com and directly from the publisher. Discussion: Matthew 19:10-12 Some Christians confidently assert that God did not create homosexual people "that way." This is important because they realize if God did create gays "that way," rejecting them would be tantamount to rejecting God’s work in creation. In pressing their “creation order” argument, some Christians are fond of saying, "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve!" To bolster their position, they often cite Jesus’ words in Matthew 19:4-5, where he responds to a question about whether divorce is permissible: “Jesus answered, ‘Have you not read that the One who made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife and the two shall become one flesh”? Therefore, what God has joined together, let no one separate.’ ” From these words, some Christians draw the conclusion that heterosexuality is the creation norm and, thus, heterosexual marriage is the only legitimate way for people to form romantic relationships. Ironically, Jesus’ own words in this very same passage refute these conclusions. As the dialogue continues, Jesus’ disciples are disturbed by his strict teaching on divorce. The disciples say that if divorce is not a ready option, perhaps it would be best for a man not to marry a woman. Jesus responds: “Not everyone can accept this teaching, but only those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let anyone accept this who can.” (Matthew 19:11-12) Here Jesus identifies three classes of men who should not marry women. Taking his categories in reverse order, first, there are those who have made themselves “eunuchs” for the kingdom of heaven, i.e., those who foreswear marriage to better serve God. Second, he mentions those who have been “made eunuchs by others,” an apparent reference to castrated males. But Jesus mentions a third category — eunuchs who were born that way. Some might argue that Jesus was referring to males born without testicles, but this would be extremely rare. Moreover, this interpretation ignores how the term “born eunuchs” was used in other literature of the time. In the ancient world, including ancient Jewish culture (as reflected in the Talmud), “natural” or “born” eunuchs were not associated with missing testicles. Rather, they were associated with stereotypically effeminate characteristics and behavior (just like modern gay men), and were thought by Rabbi Eliezer to be subject to “cure” (just like modern gays). Moreover, as we have also seen, eunuchs were commonly associated with homosexual desire. (For a complete discussion of the term "born eunuch" and the connection with homosexuality, see The Early Church Welcomed a Gay Man.) As a reasonably informed person of his time, Jesus would have been aware of this common view of eunuchs. Yet he very matter-of-factly asserts that some people are simply born that way. The implication of his statement is profound — God created gay people the way they are! Jesus says so. Unlike Rabbi Eliezer, Jesus feels no need to “cure” these born eunuchs. He speaks no words of condemnation. Rather he lists people born gay alongside another honored class (eunuchs for the kingdom), and accepts them as a natural part of God’s creation order. Thus, when Matthew 19 is read as a whole, we see Jesus teaches that most people are created for heterosexual marriage. (We too accept this as God’s predominant creation paradigm.) But, unlike some modern Christians, Jesus does not see this as the only honorable way to live. He acknowledges that some human beings have been created by God to follow a less common, but equally legitimate path. There are some who have been eunuchs from birth — made that way by God. For Further Study Books The Children Are Free: Reexamining the Biblical Evidence on Same-sex Relationships by Rev. Jeff Miner and John Tyler Connoley "Short, clear, and amazingly easy to read, this book does much more than offering loopholes or excuses with regards to the Bible. Instead, the authors combine careful research with a tremendous respect for God's Word, using humor, personal stories, and Biblical examples to make their case." --review from GayChristian.net. Most of the text on this site is from The Children Are Free. Outing The Bible by Rev. Elder Nancy Wilson Outing The Church by Rev. Elder Nancy Wilson These books are the anecdotal, scripture-citing, and very funny memoir of the ministry of Rev. Wilson, Moderator of the Metropolitan Community Churches. The Good Book by Rev. Peter Gomes Some people idolize the Bible, and others discount it. Rev. Gomes does neither. This thoughtful book describes the nature of Bible abuse in the church throughout history, and proposes a way to read the Bible without neglecting either its Divine inspiration or its cultural context. Holy Homosexuals : The Truth About Being Gay or Lesbian and Christian by Rev. Michael S. Piazza Rev. Piazza makes his case elequently in a book suitible for lay people and clergy alike. Piazza shows a deep respect for scripture, while educating the reader on context in both Hebrew and and Greek society. Is It a Choice? Answers to the Most Frequently Asked Questions About Gay & Lesbian People, Third Edition by Eric Marcus Is the Homosexual My Neighbor? A Positive Christian Response by Letha Scanzoni and Virginia Mollenkott This compasionate book examines the meanings and intents of Scripture, but also speaks of real people's lives, and challenges Christians (gay and not) to re-examine their attitudes toward gay and lesbian people. Jesus, the Bible, and Homosexuality: Explode the Myths, Heal the Church by Jack Rogers Evangelical theologian and former Moderator of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) Jack Rogers observes that today's church is led by many of those who were once cast out: people of color, women, and divorced and remarried people, and he argues that we must interpret the Bible through the lens of Jesus' redemptive life and ministry. Our Tribe: happy Folks, God, Jesus, and the Bible by Rev. Elder Nancy Wilson (This title is out of print, but Amazon usually has used copies available.) Our Tribe is the anecdotal, scripture-citing, and very funny memoir of the ministry of Rev. Wilson, Moderator of the Metropolitan Community Churches. The happy Bible Commentary by Deryn Guest, Robert E. Goss, Mona West, Thomas Bohache Stranger at the Gate: To Be Gay and Christian in America by Rev. Dr. Mel White Rev. White details his twenty-five years of being counseled, exorcised, electric-shocked, and nearly driven to suicide because his church said homosexuality was wrong. His story is powerful and uplifting. Virtually Normal by Andrew Sullivan Writer, blogger, and gay Catholic, Andrew Sullivan analyzes the politics of the homosexuality debate. His ideas are sure to give both sides something to think about. What the Bible Really Says About Homosexuality by Daniel A. Helminiak An examination of all of the Biblical passages that are commonly used to condemn gay people and gay behavior. The methods of Biblical interpretation, and their validity, are explained well. Affirming Christian Communities LifeJourney Church, Indianapolis, Indiana An affirming, Biblically-focused, Jesus-following church in central Indiana. Visit the web site for online sermons, a daily devotional, and information about the church. Metropolitan Community Churches An affirming Christian denomination, founded in 1968, with congregations in most US States and in 22 countries. The Gay Christian Network A nonprofit organization providing resources and support to Christians who happen to be gay, lesbian, bisexual, or trangender. They also work with churches and other Christian organizations to help educate the Christian community about sexual orientation issues from a Biblical standpoint. Visit the website for Bible study resources, prayer support, online sermons, a weekly internet radio show, and a supportive community of GLBT Christians from across the theological spectrum. Whosoever An online magazine for GLBT Christians. www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence/born_gay.html
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 27, 2015 5:45:50 GMT -5
Nathan. The workers are going to get after you for reading too many comic books.
Do you ever mention these things in meeting? What exactly do you say in meetings, anyway?
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Post by jondough on Nov 27, 2015 9:14:07 GMT -5
Why would the camara not pan out so we can see where on earth this was located?
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Post by jondough on Nov 27, 2015 9:37:39 GMT -5
Nathan,
Here is what realy baffles me in regard to your exlusive mindset;
You believe that of the 40,000 denominations, that the F&W are the ONLY right one, yet they/we believe so much differently than you on so many things. Some, very important.
1. No F&W today believe that Jesus and God are the same. No F&W would EVER use the term "God the Son" or "Triune God". I know you will come up with one of two from years ago. No Worker believes this thinking today.
2. No F&W would believe in a Hollow earth.
3. No F&W would believe in Thor. or any other of your different characters you name.
4. No F&W would believe that God did not create ANY human, gay or otherwise.
I am positive that there is a denomination out there somewhere that believes closer to the way you believe. I'm not trying to say that you should leave the F&W and find them. I'm only trying to get you to understand how ridiculous it is that you think the F&W are the ONLY right way. Especially since they represent only .0014 percent of the world population. So you think the rest of the 99.9986 percent of all people are going to Hell to burn for all of eternity. Some of them who might even believe closer to how you believe. Did God REALLY fail this bad in his creation of man? The perfect, all knowing, all seeing, loving and merciful God that can see into the future?
Your thinking defies any type of logic.
edit: Another way to look at exlusive Friends thinking: For every one person saved in this world (if every F&W is going to Heaven) 70,000 people are going to Hell to burn for all eternity. One in 70,000 are saved.
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Post by rational on Nov 27, 2015 10:15:56 GMT -5
NathanB, it's a digitally created loop.
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Post by rational on Nov 27, 2015 10:16:18 GMT -5
Why would the camara not pan out so we can see where on earth this was located? So many reasons....
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2015 12:42:22 GMT -5
Evidence History Lessons Jesus affirmed a gay couple. Matthew 8:5-13 Ruth loved Naomi as Adam loved Eve. Genesis 2:24, Ruth 1:14 Jesus said some are born gay. Matthew 19:10-12 The early church welcomed a gay man. Acts 8:26-40 David loved Jonathan more than women. II Samuel 1:26 Romans 1:21-28 Leviticus 18 and 20 Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 19 & Jude 7) I Corinthians 6:9-10 and I Timothy 1:10 Jesus said some are born gay. Here Jesus refers to "eunuchs who have been so from birth." This terminology ("born eunuchs") was used in the ancient world to refer to homosexual men. Jesus indicates that being a "born eunuch" is a gift from God. Listen to a sermon on this topic: Download The Children Are Free: Reexamining the Biblical Evidence on Same-sex Relationships This text is an excerpt from The Children Are Free: Reexamining the Biblical Evidence on Same-sex Relationships. It’s available from Amazon.com and directly from the publisher. Discussion: Matthew 19:10-12 Some Christians confidently assert that God did not create homosexual people "that way." This is important because they realize if God did create gays "that way," rejecting them would be tantamount to rejecting God’s work in creation. In pressing their “creation order” argument, some Christians are fond of saying, "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve!" To bolster their position, they often cite Jesus’ words in Matthew 19:4-5, where he responds to a question about whether divorce is permissible: “Jesus answered, ‘Have you not read that the One who made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife and the two shall become one flesh”? Therefore, what God has joined together, let no one separate.’ ” From these words, some Christians draw the conclusion that heterosexuality is the creation norm and, thus, heterosexual marriage is the only legitimate way for people to form romantic relationships. Ironically, Jesus’ own words in this very same passage refute these conclusions. As the dialogue continues, Jesus’ disciples are disturbed by his strict teaching on divorce. The disciples say that if divorce is not a ready option, perhaps it would be best for a man not to marry a woman. Jesus responds: “Not everyone can accept this teaching, but only those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let anyone accept this who can.” (Matthew 19:11-12) Here Jesus identifies three classes of men who should not marry women. Taking his categories in reverse order, first, there are those who have made themselves “eunuchs” for the kingdom of heaven, i.e., those who foreswear marriage to better serve God. Second, he mentions those who have been “made eunuchs by others,” an apparent reference to castrated males. But Jesus mentions a third category — eunuchs who were born that way. Some might argue that Jesus was referring to males born without testicles, but this would be extremely rare. Moreover, this interpretation ignores how the term “born eunuchs” was used in other literature of the time. In the ancient world, including ancient Jewish culture (as reflected in the Talmud), “natural” or “born” eunuchs were not associated with missing testicles. Rather, they were associated with stereotypically effeminate characteristics and behavior (just like modern gay men), and were thought by Rabbi Eliezer to be subject to “cure” (just like modern gays). Moreover, as we have also seen, eunuchs were commonly associated with homosexual desire. (For a complete discussion of the term "born eunuch" and the connection with homosexuality, see The Early Church Welcomed a Gay Man.) As a reasonably informed person of his time, Jesus would have been aware of this common view of eunuchs. Yet he very matter-of-factly asserts that some people are simply born that way. The implication of his statement is profound — God created gay people the way they are! Jesus says so. Unlike Rabbi Eliezer, Jesus feels no need to “cure” these born eunuchs. He speaks no words of condemnation. Rather he lists people born gay alongside another honored class (eunuchs for the kingdom), and accepts them as a natural part of God’s creation order. Thus, when Matthew 19 is read as a whole, we see Jesus teaches that most people are created for heterosexual marriage. (We too accept this as God’s predominant creation paradigm.) But, unlike some modern Christians, Jesus does not see this as the only honorable way to live. He acknowledges that some human beings have been created by God to follow a less common, but equally legitimate path. There are some who have been eunuchs from birth — made that way by God. For Further Study Books The Children Are Free: Reexamining the Biblical Evidence on Same-sex Relationships by Rev. Jeff Miner and John Tyler Connoley "Short, clear, and amazingly easy to read, this book does much more than offering loopholes or excuses with regards to the Bible. Instead, the authors combine careful research with a tremendous respect for God's Word, using humor, personal stories, and Biblical examples to make their case." --review from GayChristian.net. Most of the text on this site is from The Children Are Free. Outing The Bible by Rev. Elder Nancy Wilson Outing The Church by Rev. Elder Nancy Wilson These books are the anecdotal, scripture-citing, and very funny memoir of the ministry of Rev. Wilson, Moderator of the Metropolitan Community Churches. The Good Book by Rev. Peter Gomes Some people idolize the Bible, and others discount it. Rev. Gomes does neither. This thoughtful book describes the nature of Bible abuse in the church throughout history, and proposes a way to read the Bible without neglecting either its Divine inspiration or its cultural context. Holy Homosexuals : The Truth About Being Gay or Lesbian and Christian by Rev. Michael S. Piazza Rev. Piazza makes his case elequently in a book suitible for lay people and clergy alike. Piazza shows a deep respect for scripture, while educating the reader on context in both Hebrew and and Greek society. Is It a Choice? Answers to the Most Frequently Asked Questions About Gay & Lesbian People, Third Edition by Eric Marcus Is the Homosexual My Neighbor? A Positive Christian Response by Letha Scanzoni and Virginia Mollenkott This compasionate book examines the meanings and intents of Scripture, but also speaks of real people's lives, and challenges Christians (gay and not) to re-examine their attitudes toward gay and lesbian people. Jesus, the Bible, and Homosexuality: Explode the Myths, Heal the Church by Jack Rogers Evangelical theologian and former Moderator of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) Jack Rogers observes that today's church is led by many of those who were once cast out: people of color, women, and divorced and remarried people, and he argues that we must interpret the Bible through the lens of Jesus' redemptive life and ministry. Our Tribe: happy Folks, God, Jesus, and the Bible by Rev. Elder Nancy Wilson (This title is out of print, but Amazon usually has used copies available.) Our Tribe is the anecdotal, scripture-citing, and very funny memoir of the ministry of Rev. Wilson, Moderator of the Metropolitan Community Churches. The happy Bible Commentary by Deryn Guest, Robert E. Goss, Mona West, Thomas Bohache Stranger at the Gate: To Be Gay and Christian in America by Rev. Dr. Mel White Rev. White details his twenty-five years of being counseled, exorcised, electric-shocked, and nearly driven to suicide because his church said homosexuality was wrong. His story is powerful and uplifting. Virtually Normal by Andrew Sullivan Writer, blogger, and gay Catholic, Andrew Sullivan analyzes the politics of the homosexuality debate. His ideas are sure to give both sides something to think about. What the Bible Really Says About Homosexuality by Daniel A. Helminiak An examination of all of the Biblical passages that are commonly used to condemn gay people and gay behavior. The methods of Biblical interpretation, and their validity, are explained well. Affirming Christian Communities LifeJourney Church, Indianapolis, Indiana An affirming, Biblically-focused, Jesus-following church in central Indiana. Visit the web site for online sermons, a daily devotional, and information about the church. Metropolitan Community Churches An affirming Christian denomination, founded in 1968, with congregations in most US States and in 22 countries. The Gay Christian Network A nonprofit organization providing resources and support to Christians who happen to be gay, lesbian, bisexual, or trangender. They also work with churches and other Christian organizations to help educate the Christian community about sexual orientation issues from a Biblical standpoint. Visit the website for Bible study resources, prayer support, online sermons, a weekly internet radio show, and a supportive community of GLBT Christians from across the theological spectrum. Whosoever An online magazine for GLBT Christians. www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence/born_gay.htmlmost of these "examples" you give are laughable your first example is so off the farm its not even funny....
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 27, 2015 17:59:41 GMT -5
Evidence History Lessons Jesus affirmed a gay couple. Matthew 8:5-13 Ruth loved Naomi as Adam loved Eve. Genesis 2:24, Ruth 1:14 Jesus said some are born gay. Matthew 19:10-12 The early church welcomed a gay man. Acts 8:26-40 David loved Jonathan more than women. II Samuel 1:26 Romans 1:21-28 Leviticus 18 and 20 Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 19 & Jude 7) I Corinthians 6:9-10 and I Timothy 1:10 Jesus said some are born gay. Here Jesus refers to "eunuchs who have been so from birth." This terminology ("born eunuchs") was used in the ancient world to refer to homosexual men. Jesus indicates that being a "born eunuch" is a gift from God. Listen to a sermon on this topic: Download The Children Are Free: Reexamining the Biblical Evidence on Same-sex Relationships This text is an excerpt from The Children Are Free: Reexamining the Biblical Evidence on Same-sex Relationships. It’s available from Amazon.com and directly from the publisher. Discussion: Matthew 19:10-12 Some Christians confidently assert that God did not create homosexual people "that way." This is important because they realize if God did create gays "that way," rejecting them would be tantamount to rejecting God’s work in creation. In pressing their “creation order” argument, some Christians are fond of saying, "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve!" To bolster their position, they often cite Jesus’ words in Matthew 19:4-5, where he responds to a question about whether divorce is permissible: “Jesus answered, ‘Have you not read that the One who made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife and the two shall become one flesh”? Therefore, what God has joined together, let no one separate.’ ” From these words, some Christians draw the conclusion that heterosexuality is the creation norm and, thus, heterosexual marriage is the only legitimate way for people to form romantic relationships. Ironically, Jesus’ own words in this very same passage refute these conclusions. As the dialogue continues, Jesus’ disciples are disturbed by his strict teaching on divorce. The disciples say that if divorce is not a ready option, perhaps it would be best for a man not to marry a woman. Jesus responds: “Not everyone can accept this teaching, but only those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let anyone accept this who can.” (Matthew 19:11-12) Here Jesus identifies three classes of men who should not marry women. Taking his categories in reverse order, first, there are those who have made themselves “eunuchs” for the kingdom of heaven, i.e., those who foreswear marriage to better serve God. Second, he mentions those who have been “made eunuchs by others,” an apparent reference to castrated males. But Jesus mentions a third category — eunuchs who were born that way. Some might argue that Jesus was referring to males born without testicles, but this would be extremely rare. Moreover, this interpretation ignores how the term “born eunuchs” was used in other literature of the time. In the ancient world, including ancient Jewish culture (as reflected in the Talmud), “natural” or “born” eunuchs were not associated with missing testicles. Rather, they were associated with stereotypically effeminate characteristics and behavior (just like modern gay men), and were thought by Rabbi Eliezer to be subject to “cure” (just like modern gays). Moreover, as we have also seen, eunuchs were commonly associated with homosexual desire. (For a complete discussion of the term "born eunuch" and the connection with homosexuality, see The Early Church Welcomed a Gay Man.) As a reasonably informed person of his time, Jesus would have been aware of this common view of eunuchs. Yet he very matter-of-factly asserts that some people are simply born that way. The implication of his statement is profound — God created gay people the way they are! Jesus says so. Unlike Rabbi Eliezer, Jesus feels no need to “cure” these born eunuchs. He speaks no words of condemnation. Rather he lists people born gay alongside another honored class (eunuchs for the kingdom), and accepts them as a natural part of God’s creation order. Thus, when Matthew 19 is read as a whole, we see Jesus teaches that most people are created for heterosexual marriage. (We too accept this as God’s predominant creation paradigm.) But, unlike some modern Christians, Jesus does not see this as the only honorable way to live. He acknowledges that some human beings have been created by God to follow a less common, but equally legitimate path. There are some who have been eunuchs from birth — made that way by God. For Further Study Books The Children Are Free: Reexamining the Biblical Evidence on Same-sex Relationships by Rev. Jeff Miner and John Tyler Connoley "Short, clear, and amazingly easy to read, this book does much more than offering loopholes or excuses with regards to the Bible. Instead, the authors combine careful research with a tremendous respect for God's Word, using humor, personal stories, and Biblical examples to make their case." --review from GayChristian.net. Most of the text on this site is from The Children Are Free. Outing The Bible by Rev. Elder Nancy Wilson Outing The Church by Rev. Elder Nancy Wilson These books are the anecdotal, scripture-citing, and very funny memoir of the ministry of Rev. Wilson, Moderator of the Metropolitan Community Churches. The Good Book by Rev. Peter Gomes Some people idolize the Bible, and others discount it. Rev. Gomes does neither. This thoughtful book describes the nature of Bible abuse in the church throughout history, and proposes a way to read the Bible without neglecting either its Divine inspiration or its cultural context. Holy Homosexuals : The Truth About Being Gay or Lesbian and Christian by Rev. Michael S. Piazza Rev. Piazza makes his case elequently in a book suitible for lay people and clergy alike. Piazza shows a deep respect for scripture, while educating the reader on context in both Hebrew and and Greek society. Is It a Choice? Answers to the Most Frequently Asked Questions About Gay & Lesbian People, Third Edition by Eric Marcus Is the Homosexual My Neighbor? A Positive Christian Response by Letha Scanzoni and Virginia Mollenkott This compasionate book examines the meanings and intents of Scripture, but also speaks of real people's lives, and challenges Christians (gay and not) to re-examine their attitudes toward gay and lesbian people. Jesus, the Bible, and Homosexuality: Explode the Myths, Heal the Church by Jack Rogers Evangelical theologian and former Moderator of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) Jack Rogers observes that today's church is led by many of those who were once cast out: people of color, women, and divorced and remarried people, and he argues that we must interpret the Bible through the lens of Jesus' redemptive life and ministry. Our Tribe: happy Folks, God, Jesus, and the Bible by Rev. Elder Nancy Wilson (This title is out of print, but Amazon usually has used copies available.) Our Tribe is the anecdotal, scripture-citing, and very funny memoir of the ministry of Rev. Wilson, Moderator of the Metropolitan Community Churches. The happy Bible Commentary by Deryn Guest, Robert E. Goss, Mona West, Thomas Bohache Stranger at the Gate: To Be Gay and Christian in America by Rev. Dr. Mel White Rev. White details his twenty-five years of being counseled, exorcised, electric-shocked, and nearly driven to suicide because his church said homosexuality was wrong. His story is powerful and uplifting. Virtually Normal by Andrew Sullivan Writer, blogger, and gay Catholic, Andrew Sullivan analyzes the politics of the homosexuality debate. His ideas are sure to give both sides something to think about. What the Bible Really Says About Homosexuality by Daniel A. Helminiak An examination of all of the Biblical passages that are commonly used to condemn gay people and gay behavior. The methods of Biblical interpretation, and their validity, are explained well. Affirming Christian Communities LifeJourney Church, Indianapolis, Indiana An affirming, Biblically-focused, Jesus-following church in central Indiana. Visit the web site for online sermons, a daily devotional, and information about the church. Metropolitan Community Churches An affirming Christian denomination, founded in 1968, with congregations in most US States and in 22 countries. The Gay Christian Network A nonprofit organization providing resources and support to Christians who happen to be gay, lesbian, bisexual, or trangender. They also work with churches and other Christian organizations to help educate the Christian community about sexual orientation issues from a Biblical standpoint. Visit the website for Bible study resources, prayer support, online sermons, a weekly internet radio show, and a supportive community of GLBT Christians from across the theological spectrum. Whosoever An online magazine for GLBT Christians. www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence/born_gay.htmlmost of these "examples" you give are laughable your first example is so off the farm its not even funny.... @wally, are they any more "laughable" than what nathan believes ? Do you believe that Jesus lives on Venus or that the earth is hollow ?
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 27, 2015 18:02:26 GMT -5
Nathan, Here is what realy baffles me in regard to your exlusive mindset; You believe that of the 40,000 denominations, that the F&W are the ONLY right one, yet they/we believe so much differently than you on so many things. Some, very important. 1. No F&W today believe that Jesus and God are the same. No F&W would EVER use the term "God the Son" or "Triune God". I know you will come up with one of two from years ago. No Worker believes this thinking today. 2. No F&W would believe in a Hollow earth. 3. No F&W would believe in Thor. or any other of your different characters you name. 4. No F&W would believe that God did not create ANY human, gay or otherwise. I am positive that there is a denomination out there somewhere that believes closer to the way you believe. I'm not trying to say that you should leave the F&W and find them. I'm only trying to get you to understand how ridiculous it is that you think the F&W are the ONLY right way. Especially since they represent only .0014 percent of the world population. So you think the rest of the 99.9986 percent of all people are going to Hell to burn for all of eternity. Some of them who might even believe closer to how you believe. Did God REALLY fail this bad in his creation of man? The perfect, all knowing, all seeing, loving and merciful God that can see into the future? Your thinking defies any type of logic. edit: Another way to look at exlusive Friends thinking: For every one person saved in this world (if every F&W is going to Heaven) 70,000 people are going to Hell to burn for all eternity. One in 70,000 are saved. Great post jondough.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2015 19:07:14 GMT -5
most of these "examples" you give are laughable your first example is so off the farm its not even funny.... @wally , are they any more "laughable" than what nathan believes ? Do you believe that Jesus lives on Venus or that the earth is hollow ? no I don't believe Jesus lives on venus nor do I think the earth is hollow....
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Post by jondough on Nov 27, 2015 19:09:03 GMT -5
So if you actually believe this exlusive thinking...
Then pretty much, you better hope you are not born into this world because most likely you're going to spend an eternity burning in Hell. As a matter of fact, you are 23 times more likely to get hit by lightning in your lifetime than being saved through a Worker if you are born into this world.
Please SOMEONE that believes that God would create this scenario, create a scenario that could allow the Devil to cause this, allow mankind to cause this. or didn't know this was going to happen.....
Please defend your exlusive thinking. I'm only giving you the facts if your exclusive thinking is correct.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2015 19:18:05 GMT -5
So if you actually believe this exlusive thinking... Then pretty much, you better hope you are not born into this world because most likely you're going to spend an eternity burning in Hell. As a matter of fact, you are 23 times more likely to get hit by lightning in your lifetime than being saved through a Worker if you are born into this world. Please SOMEONE that believes that God would create this scenario, create a scenario that could allow the Devil to cause this, allow mankind to cause this. or didn't know this was going to happen..... Please defend your exlusive thinking please. I'm only giving you the facts if your exclusive thinking is accurate. it really boils down to the way.
some say that Jesus is the way some say that the way is Jesus and a set of standards...
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Post by jondough on Nov 27, 2015 20:40:18 GMT -5
Nathan, Here is what realy baffles me in regard to your exlusive mindset; You believe that of the 40,000 denominations, that the F&W are the ONLY right one, yet they/we believe so much differently than you on so many things. Some, very important. I am NOT born and raise and a normal 2x2 ex-worker... I THINK outside of the box. God give us brains so I want to use it wisely. Most of the workers have similar exclusive mindset like me, it they didn't they would ask to leave the ministry ASAP, and go and find/join the church/ministry for their non-2x2 exclusive thinking.1. No F&W today believe that Jesus and God are the same. No F&W would EVER use the term "God the Son" or "Triune God". I know you will come up with one of two from years ago. No Worker believes this thinking today. "God the Son" and "Triune God" terminologies has been used by the early church father in the 2nd century and for 2000 years... I didn't come up with these two terminologies... Most of the Protestant denominations are familiar with these two doctrines for 500 years. Many workers are lack in knowledge, in some of these area because they have been taught for years any doctrine has involved with the RCC is false. If the RCC doesn't have some good teachings within, then anybody would be foolish to follow them.2. No F&W would believe in a Hollow earth. Yes, for nearly 6000 years hardly any know about the hollow earth, until 300 years ago. I have tried to educate, inform the workers and the friends who read on the TMB about the hollow earth is the garden of Eden, the last 3 years. Hopefully, they will have some knowledge of it by now. 3. No F&W would believe in Thor. or any other of your different characters you name. Well, Valiant and Donn Thor are very popular in world these days... Thanks, to a movie director and producer Craig Campasso made a short film feature about Valiant Thor landing at the Pentagon in 1957-1960. Craig Campobasso, Film Producer made a short-feature film about Valiant Thor, stranger at the Pentagon 1957-60www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtiTf9bKHuMThis is posted on Craig Campobasso website: Stranger at the Pentagon, A science Fiction or Is it Science Fact Short Film. www.StrangerAtThePentagon.com
Our story begins when Valiant Thor lands on Earth in his technological wonder "Victor One" on Saturday, March 16, 1957 at 8:00 AM. President Eisenhower, Vice President Richard Nixon, the Joint Chiefs of Staff--all rush to the Oval Office to meet with the extraterrestrial. When Thor explains his presence, the men ponder his endless technological possibilities. They contemplate their future strategy either using friendship or force to gain control. Thor’s three year invitation to reside at the Pentagon under VIP status begins. A designated Vice General in the Joint Chiefs of Staff has plans to climb the military ladder. Thor is his goal. To attain what Thor knows will ensure the United States military supremacy over the world, and status with his superiors. When all else fails, he takes Thor to the Empyrean, the leader of 13 men who make-up the SSS: the Secret Shadow Society --the men who really run the world from behind the corporate curtain. The Empyrean has liaisons across the universe with malevolent beings who have groomed him on how to handle Thor. Will Commander Thor succumb to the evils of the SSS? Will the government gain control over him and his technology? What is the fate of the Earth? Who will tell the “Stranger” at the Pentagon’s story--in the government cover-up of all government cover-ups?
Emmy Nominated Filmmaker Craig Campobasso first met the book's author Dr. Frank Stranges in 2002, and they immediately bonded like father and son. Craig worked with Dr. Frank's guidance for many years as he wrote the feature-length screenplay to his book. Craig has also produced and directed the Short Film. Craig just finished directing the short film in January of 2013 with a 1950s Technicolor look on Earth and a far-futuristic look on board the Victor Class Saucers, Starship and on other planets where the people live on the interior of their worlds. The short film, based on Craig's feature-length screenplay will accompany the business plan to investors.
1) Very Interesting Radio interview with Craig Campobasso (A movie Producer/Director). Valiant Thor was NOT a Nordic human alien (time 30:17) www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy5X8uWy6YI 2) Another Interesting interview with Craig Campobasso 6/2013: Valiant Thor, angelical lovable being with no palm, finger prints, or navel. Created angelical being. He could read peoples minds, telepathy, appear and disappear out of thin air, Pass through the walls, know our past families history. www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7BLX1ZdFf8
3) Amazing! 6/2015 Interview with Craig about the Full length feature film about Valiant Thor at the Pentagon in the works! It takes approx. 25 Millions dollars from private investor to make the full length feature film. They had won two awards for the short-feature film. Valiant Thor continued direct dialoged with Eisenhower, Kennedy, Nixon Administration.
(Part I) www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3u4MU2LaY8 (Part II) President Nixon was set up with Water gate scandal... www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-gJxnQoJ3k
4. I am positive that there is a denomination out there somewhere that believes closer to the way you believe. I'm not trying to say that you should leave the F&W and find them.
I am very Happy and content with the 2x2 fellowship, there is church/fellowship out there for me. I don't mind the non-exclusive friends among us, as long they don't tell or encourage the friends to join the churches of their choice... then the workers should have a serious talk with the non-exclusive friends. The early workers excommunicate non-exclusive worker John Long in 1907 for sending his converts to join the churches of their choices.
5. I'm only trying to get you to understand how ridiculous it is that you think the F&W are the ONLY right way.
Jesus truth, way, New Testament fellowship, and the Itinerant apostolic ministry is the RIGHT way for yesterday, today and forever!... the workers and the friends follow Jesus Way and Truth as we read in the gospels, book of Acts. 6. Especially since they represent only .0014 percent of the world population. So you think the rest of the 99.9986 percent of all people are going to Hell to burn for all of eternity. Some of them who might even believe closer to how you believe. Did God REALLY fail this bad in his creation of man? The perfect, all knowing, all seeing, loving and merciful God that can see into the future? Your thinking defies any type of logic.
edit: Another way to look at exlusive Friends thinking: For every one person saved in this world (if every F&W is going to Heaven) 70,000 people are going to Hell to burn for all eternity. One in 70,000 are saved.
Jesus said in Matthew 7:13-14 " Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.".... The few enter the narrow way shall be SAVED compare to the majority of the crowd enter the Wide gate.
your non-exclusive can be very dangerous within our fellowship. If any worker, who thinks/preaches like the way do you, he/she will be excommunicated from the ministry like non-exclusive worker John Long in 1907.
Non-Exclusive friends can stay in the fellowship as long they don't preach/tell the friends in their Sunday morning meetings, it's OK to join the 40,000 plus churches of their choice.
A worker would be asked to leave even quicker if they taught your above teaching. Try preaching it in sunday morning meeting and you will be asked to remain silent, or even ex-communicated if you continue. When I address these teachings of yours, you always answer with a defense of the teaching, rather then addressing my points. I already know your cut & paste defense of the teaching, you have cut & pasted many many times. Read my points. They are not arguing your beliefs. Maybe you can post again, addressing my points.
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 27, 2015 21:09:29 GMT -5
So if you actually believe this exlusive thinking... Then pretty much, you better hope you are not born into this world because most likely you're going to spend an eternity burning in Hell. As a matter of fact, you are 23 times more likely to get hit by lightning in your lifetime than being saved through a Worker if you are born into this world. Please SOMEONE that believes that God would create this scenario, create a scenario that could allow the Devil to cause this, allow mankind to cause this. or didn't know this was going to happen..... Please defend your exlusive thinking please. I'm only giving you the facts if your exclusive thinking is accurate. it really boils down to the way.
some say that Jesus is the way some say that the way is Jesus and a set of standards...
So what do you think @wally ?
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 27, 2015 21:21:09 GMT -5
A worker would be asked to leave even quicker if they taught your above teaching. Try preaching it in sunday morning meeting and you will be asked to remain silent, or even ex-communicated if you continue. When I address these teachings of yours, you always answer with a defense of the teaching, rather then addressing my points. I already know your cut & paste defense of the teaching, you have cut & pasted many many times. Read my points. They are not arguing your beliefs. Maybe you can post again, addressing my points. Exactly right jondough ! If nathan told, exclusive or non exclusive F&W things like Jesus lives on Venus and he believes the earth is hollow, we all know who would be ex-communicated ! To say that non-exclusive people telling exclusive people to go join another church is dangerous, is a joke when nathan is trying to get people to believe in UFO's, Hollow earth and Jesus living on venus !
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Post by rational on Nov 27, 2015 21:56:55 GMT -5
Nathan, Here is what realy baffles me in regard to your exlusive mindset; You believe that of the 40,000 denominations, that the F&W are the ONLY right one, yet they/we believe so much differently than you on so many things. Some, very important. Careful. Do you believe that of the tens of thousands of gods that the one you have chosen is the ONLY correct one? Do you believe that of all the religions there have been, that there are, and that there will be that christianity is the ONLY right one? This kind of thinking in regard to your exclusive mindset really baffles me.
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Post by fred on Nov 27, 2015 22:09:42 GMT -5
I don't believe Nathan runs the risk of an excom, at least at this stage. Most of us have a somewhat dotty old aunt in our extended family and she is tolerated because she is family, but no one really takes much notice of her.
It's a shame for Nathan as on some biblical topics he has some interesting thoughts, but folks won't be taking much notice to them.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2015 22:17:34 GMT -5
it really boils down to the way.
some say that Jesus is the way some say that the way is Jesus and a set of standards...
So what do you think @wally ? I lean towards Jesus is the way...
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 27, 2015 22:18:15 GMT -5
Exactly right jondough ! If nathan told, exclusive or non exclusive F&W things like Jesus lives on Venus and he believes the earth is hollow, we all know who would be ex-communicated ! To say that non-exclusive people telling exclusive people to go join another church is dangerous, is a joke when nathan is trying to get people to believe in UFO's, Hollow earth and Jesus living on venus ! I back up about the existences/pictures of Valiant, Donn Thor..... Jesus Christ lives on Venus planet, and the Hollow earth with MANY eyewitnesses and their testimonies. My study is NOT just HOT AIR! I have shown names of many eyewitnesses and evidences. 2x2friendsworkers.proboards.com/thread/98/angel-god-talked-eisenhower-1957?page=1 nathan, gay people back up their right to be gay with their own testimonies as well, but plenty of people ( like yourself) don't want to listen, instead you use the Bible when it suits you to back-up your opinions. But I notice you don't use the Bible to back-up your theory of Thor or UFO's ! Or you take verses out of context to suit your belief.
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 27, 2015 22:19:14 GMT -5
So what do you think @wally ? I lean towards Jesus is the way... So are you exclusive ?
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