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Post by Roselyn T on Jul 11, 2015 23:16:33 GMT -5
Quote - "typical non answer of workers" Exes often default to the "non-answer" on the TMB, is that wrong?Can you give me an example where I have given a non-answer Bert ?
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Post by LouiseKeating on Jul 11, 2015 23:48:29 GMT -5
hi dmmichgood have you ever hit a child? even once? Hi, louisekeating. Why do you ask?
Have you ever hit a child? even once?
do you think workers avoid answering questions?
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Post by Roselyn T on Jul 11, 2015 23:51:07 GMT -5
Review, maybe you should have read what I said to Virgo a few pages back !
Just to clarify, I was 4 years old when I first saw my mother abused Review ! 4 YEARS OLD ! What do you propose a 4 YEAR OLD do ?
You also have shown how much you DON"T understand about DOMESTIC VIOLENCE by your questions !
What don't you get when I said I had a "strict professing upbringing" ? I would NOT have been game enough to tell anyone what was happening, or even admit what was happening !
You obviously have NO IDEA of what happens in a family where Domestic Violence happens !
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Post by Roselyn T on Jul 11, 2015 23:52:20 GMT -5
From another thread: ***** . Post by Bert on Jun 29, 2015 at 6:14pm Roselyn, you say you suffered 'domestic violence' in your 'professing upbringing.' I seriously doubt 'domestic violence' is the norm in my church. You are suggesting that in fact it IS the norm. That's the first problem. The second one is the definition of 'domestic violence', some feminists suggest this could even be a man yelling at a woman. Some here might think it's denying children the things most other children enjoy." Just to clarify, I did not say domestic violence is the norm in the F&W Church, what I did say was domestic violence was the norm in my home as a child. But is domestic violence that does happen in the F&W looked at the same as CSA by the workers ? Is it something that has been brushed under the mat ? DId you read this Review it was the first post on this thread !
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Post by Roselyn T on Jul 12, 2015 0:00:14 GMT -5
Review I suggest you read this :
The Effects of Domestic Violence on Children
How many children witness the abuse of their mothers? Studies show that 3-4 million children between the ages of 3-17 are at risk of exposure to domestic violence each year. U.S. government statistics say that 95% of domestic violence cases involve women victims of male partners. The children of these women often witness the domestic violence.
Witnessing can mean SEEING actual incidents of physical/and or sexual abuse. It can mean HEARING threats or fighting noises from another room. Children may also OBSERVE the aftermath of physical abuse such as blood, bruises, tears, torn clothing, and broken items. Finally children may be AWARE of the tension in the home such as their mother’s fearfulness when the abuser’s car pulls into the driveway.
What are the feelings of children who are exposed to battering? Children who are exposed to battering become fearful and anxious. They are always on guard, watching and waiting for the next event to occur. They never know what will trigger the abuse, and therefore, they never feel safe. They are always worried for themselves, their mother, and their siblings. They may feel worthless and powerless.
Children who grow up with abuse are expected to keep the family secret, sometimes not even talking to each other about the abuse. Children from abusive homes can look fine to the outside world, but inside they are in terrible pain. Their families are chaotic and crazy. They may blame themselves for the abuse thinking if they had not done or said a particular thing, the abuse would not have occurred. They may also become angry at their siblings or their mother for triggering the abuse. They may feel rage, embarrassment, and humiliation.
Children of abuse feel isolated and vulnerable. They are starved for attention, affection and approval. Because mom is struggling to survive, she is often not present for her children. Because dad is so consumed with controlling everyone, he also is not present for his children. These children become physically, emotionally and psychologically abandoned.
What behaviors do children who witness domestic violence exhibit? The emotional responses of children who witness domestic violence may include fear, guilt, shame, sleep disturbances, sadness, depression, and anger (at both the abuser for the violence and at the mother for being unable to prevent the violence).
Physical responses may include stomachaches and/or headaches, bedwetting, and loss of ability to concentrate. Some children may also experience physical or sexual abuse or neglect. Others may be injured while trying to intervene on behalf of their mother or a sibling.
The behavioral responses of children who witness domestic violence may include acting out, withdrawal, or anxiousness to please. The children may exhibit signs of anxiety and have a short attention span which may result in poor school performance and attendance. They may experience developmental delays in speech, motor or cognitive skills. They may also use violence to express themselves displaying increased aggression with peers or mother. They can become self-injuring.
What are the long-term effects on children who witness domestic violence? Whether or not children are physically abused, they often suffer emotional and psychological trauma from living in homes where their fathers abuse their mothers. Children whose mothers are abused are denied the kind of home life that fosters healthy development. Children who grow up observing their mothers being abused, especially by their fathers, grow up with a role model of intimate relationships in which one person uses intimidation and violence over the other person to get their way. Because children have a natural tendency to identify with strength, they may ally themselves with the abuser and lose respect for their seemingly helpless mother. Abusers typically play into this by putting the mother down in front of her children and telling them that their mother is “crazy” or “stupid” and that they do not have to listen to her. Seeing their mothers treated with enormous disrespect, teaches children that they can disrespect women the way their fathers do.
Most experts believe that children who are raised in abusive homes learn that violence is an effective way to resolve conflicts and problems. They may replicate the violence they witnessed as children in their teen and adult relationships and parenting experiences. Boys who witness their mothers’ abuse are more likely to batter their female partners as adults than boys raised in nonviolent homes. For girls, adolescence may result in the belief that threats and violence are the norm in relationships.
Children from violent homes have higher risks of alcohol/drug abuse, post traumatic stress disorder, and juvenile delinquency. Witnessing domestic violence is the single best predictor of juvenile delinquency and adult criminality. It is also the number one reason children run away
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Post by Roselyn T on Jul 12, 2015 0:00:43 GMT -5
"Children who grow up with abuse are expected to keep the family secret, sometimes not even talking to each other about the abuse. Children from abusive homes can look fine to the outside world, but inside they are in terrible pain. Their families are chaotic and crazy. They may blame themselves for the abuse thinking if they had not done or said a particular thing, the abuse would not have occurred. They may also become angry at their siblings or their mother for triggering the abuse. They may feel rage, embarrassment, and humiliation."
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Post by Roselyn T on Jul 12, 2015 0:02:42 GMT -5
The reason I am asking Review is because my mother who is 75 years old has only just now been able to talk about the abuse she suffered from my father for the whole of their married life ( 25 years). As a child I witnessed my mother being bashed black & blue, I still have not dealt with all the things I seen as they have been buried for so long. My grandmother who is 101 years old still professing knew what was happening, but no one did anything to stop it. As I have said I had a "strict professing upbringing" everything had to look right but meanwhile my mother was suffering. I may no longer be a member of the F&W, but that is what I was raised in. I still have a lot of family who are part of the F&W, and being the 5th generation of 6 that have been part of the F&W I believe I have as much right to ask these questions as anyone else ! You saw your mother abused and you did nothing about it? You are a family member, a daughter and you have nothing about it? Why did you not do anything about it? Why are you know seeking to lay blame for family abuse on the church? Why have you been asking veiled questions all this time? Why did you not be open and state details from the beginning?
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 12, 2015 1:06:23 GMT -5
Hi, louisekeating. Why do you ask?
Have you ever hit a child? even once? What do you think, LouiseKeating?
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Post by LouiseKeating on Jul 12, 2015 1:20:02 GMT -5
What do you think, LouiseKeating? I think I should ask you
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Post by Roselyn T on Jul 12, 2015 2:24:55 GMT -5
Review I believe I have answered your questions !
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Post by Mary on Jul 12, 2015 3:46:06 GMT -5
It is wrong for a Minister to get involved in a domestic dispute/matter unless he is approached by one of the parties. Regarding your 2nd question. I feel no need to answer that question; you are not a member of our church. If/when you do become a member again ask your local workers about it. Review said it was wrong to get involved in a domestic dispute unless he is approached by one of the parties. As this is on the domestic violence thread and in answer to Roselyns question I can only presume he is meaning getting involved in situations where there is domestic violence. Yet he expects a child to report her parent if there is domestic violence. (See Can some one please explain thread)
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Post by Roselyn T on Jul 12, 2015 4:28:41 GMT -5
Thank you Mary.
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Post by Mary on Jul 12, 2015 5:08:42 GMT -5
I would not expect a pastor or worker to turn a blind eye to a couple in distress if they knew about it. Would you turn a blind eye if it was your child, and you are supposed to be a Shepard of the flock. Would you turn a blind eye to a sheep who was struggling or would you wait until he bleated for help? If you see someone struggling, help them, don't walk to the other side of the road and ignore them. I'm not talking about strangers but people who you are supposed to care about.
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Post by Mary on Jul 12, 2015 6:59:16 GMT -5
Keep to the subject review instead of going off on a tangent. There's nothing in my post that is incorrect. Again I will say if we see someone struggling don't turn a blind eye but help them.
As someone said earlier you need to take note of people's stories instead of attacking or ridiculing whatever they say. These are serious life issues.
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Post by rational on Jul 12, 2015 10:16:12 GMT -5
hi dmmichgood have you ever hit a child? even once? I can remember two times when I was hit as a child. Truthfully, I probably deserved it!
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Post by snow on Jul 12, 2015 13:38:54 GMT -5
hi dmmichgood have you ever hit a child? even once? I can remember two times when I was hit as a child. Truthfully, I probably deserved it! Ha! I wish I could say that. But then as you all know, I am especially bad and deserved it. I also deserved it when I was in a domestic violence situation. I'm quite sure it had to be my fault, since my father said it must have been something I did and to go back to him. From what I've read on here, there are still people who think like that I guess. (I'm not including you in that crowd btw).
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Post by Mary on Jul 12, 2015 14:23:56 GMT -5
You are unbelievable review. Very unbelieverable. I notice you always like to shut posters down by trying to have the last word. I don't know how in any good conscience you could speak in convention as a visiting worker and then come on this board between meetings and attack posters in the manner you do. You have not added to the discussion on domestic violence but ridiculed those who have.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 12, 2015 14:26:36 GMT -5
You are unbelievable review. Very unbelieverable. I notice you always like to shut posters down by trying to have the last word. I don't know how in any good conscience you could speak in convention as a visiting worker and then come on this board between meetings and attack posters in the manner you do. I wonder why the word "hypocrite" suddenly came to my mind?
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 12, 2015 14:33:14 GMT -5
good on you dmg, you get in on the game now! If Mary fails I can depend on you to flatter me with your attention. Hey, it is Sunday!
Shouldn't you be praying or reading the bible or visiting the bedridden or the poor or something!
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 12, 2015 14:42:00 GMT -5
I guess it is one type of domestic violence when Mary and dmg get after one man like they do! Oh you poor baby! Two of us after you, but it isn't "domestic violence"you know
I wouldn't live in the same domicile with you.
If nothing else would do, I would hang myself from the rafters first!
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Post by slowtosee on Jul 12, 2015 14:50:08 GMT -5
I have wondered what the difference seems to be, between people who have received , what we called "a lickin" or "the strap" , from loving parents who felt it was their responsibility, to those who got "a lickin" from their parents or others, out of anger or rage or worse yet, hatred etc. I reieved my share of "lickin's" from my Dad, who felt it was his duty to try to correct his son. I consider him a VERY loving and kind father, who has unselfishly and unconditionally loved me, all his life. Likely, the physical pain I received from lickings where he would be crying himself, was as great or greater than some of the physical pain received by children in abusive situations, who to this day, live with the trauma they experienced. It must be a lot deeper than just the physical pain, which is usually very temporary. I remember sitting on the bedside with a gentle old professing man, on his deathbed, and he was crying , as he related his experience with his father. "Why did he kick me like that.... what did I do to deserve that........how come.......... why...... why.....do you think I did something wrong.....etc This gentleman went to his grave with the emotional pain , inflicted on him by his father, and it would be foolish to tell him , ah, you are to blame for not "getting over it" , deal with it, move on., blahblah blah. He had tried. He was NOT bitter or angry or vengefull, just flat out HURTING. Another man, phones me on occasion, and pours out his pain about his abusive situation he experienced as a child..... "Alvin , you don't know what it's like to have a father , you are scared might kill you, and you sleep with a gun under your bed, hoping you won't have to use it......." It HURTS, long after Dad is dead and gone. Another GIANT of a man, gone now, said that when his Dad died, "it was the happiest day of his life". That sounds terrible , but you need to understand the fear he lived in of his father. He was a BIG STRONG POWERFUL son, but he lived in fear of his father. Some of the statements we hear from hurting people are just that. THEY HURT, and although sympathy might not be of help to them, some understanding would not add to their pain, at least. I think it has to do with our, seeking and desiring and yearning that we as humans have, for "a blessing" from those we consider our "loved ones", and not a curse. It is not so much the physical pain of violence, which of course hurts, but the emotional and mental pain, which does not go away as easy. Alvin
Just thought of another man, who lived with my sister and brother in law. He was mentally handicapped , not from birth, but because his Dad literally beat him with a 2x4, as a child. He asked my sister, "people tell me I am different, do you think I am different" and she replied, "Mike, I think we are all different" AMEN
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Post by Mary on Jul 12, 2015 14:56:46 GMT -5
Parents need to learn to control their own anger and stop taking it out on their children. A course in anger management before having children would help prevent some of these kinds of situations.
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Post by rational on Jul 12, 2015 15:26:50 GMT -5
Do you notice he is poking his tongue out at us dmm. He needs to be grounded for doing that to ladies. No respect, no respect at all. Respect is earned.
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Post by Mary on Jul 12, 2015 15:30:42 GMT -5
We've more than earned it with all the hard work we have done in trying to reform him. After all his name is not review for nothing.
Now back to the topic before he derailed it.
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Post by jondough on Jul 12, 2015 19:28:53 GMT -5
Do you notice he is poking his tongue out at us dmm. He needs to be grounded for doing that to ladies. No respect, no respect at all. Respect is earned. I believe respect is something we owe to every fellow human being. That being said, respect can be lost. Or should I say, "disrespect is earned"
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Post by Roselyn T on Jul 12, 2015 21:11:05 GMT -5
Review, maybe you should have read what I said to Virgo a few pages back ! Just to clarify, I was 4 years old when I first saw my mother abused Review ! 4 YEARS OLD ! What do you propose a 4 YEAR OLD do ? To clarify: You said it happened for all of their 25 years of married life.
Did you remain a 4 year old for the whole of their 25 years of married life?
Did you not do anything for all those years?
Did you turn a blind eye for 25 years to a mother in distress that you knew about? it. I'm not talking about strangers but people who you are supposed to care about.Once again Review you are showing your lack of understanding of DV I suggest you do some research on DV, before you start asking stupid questions like you have here ! You have no idea of the fallout for my mother if I would have gone to the Police when I was say 18, what do you think my father would have done ? To even ask these questions when I have stated I was 4 YEARS OLD when I first witnessed my mother being abused shows how ignorant you really are. Also please show me where I have said the F&W church was to blame ? What I did say was what is the Churches role in DV & I also asked you what you would do if you knew a women was being abused.
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Post by Roselyn T on Jul 12, 2015 21:14:17 GMT -5
Domestic violence is a serious and criminal matter and it is despicable for a poster to be hijack a thread about it to vent personal gripes about their ex church. Yes Review DV is a serious and criminal matter, so stop asking stupid questions and do some research on the effects of DV on Children and Families involved.
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Post by Roselyn T on Jul 12, 2015 21:15:22 GMT -5
Review I suggest you read this : The Effects of Domestic Violence on Children How many children witness the abuse of their mothers? Studies show that 3-4 million children between the ages of 3-17 are at risk of exposure to domestic violence each year. U.S. government statistics say that 95% of domestic violence cases involve women victims of male partners. The children of these women often witness the domestic violence. Witnessing can mean SEEING actual incidents of physical/and or sexual abuse. It can mean HEARING threats or fighting noises from another room. Children may also OBSERVE the aftermath of physical abuse such as blood, bruises, tears, torn clothing, and broken items. Finally children may be AWARE of the tension in the home such as their mother’s fearfulness when the abuser’s car pulls into the driveway. What are the feelings of children who are exposed to battering? Children who are exposed to battering become fearful and anxious. They are always on guard, watching and waiting for the next event to occur. They never know what will trigger the abuse, and therefore, they never feel safe. They are always worried for themselves, their mother, and their siblings. They may feel worthless and powerless. Children who grow up with abuse are expected to keep the family secret, sometimes not even talking to each other about the abuse. Children from abusive homes can look fine to the outside world, but inside they are in terrible pain. Their families are chaotic and crazy. They may blame themselves for the abuse thinking if they had not done or said a particular thing, the abuse would not have occurred. They may also become angry at their siblings or their mother for triggering the abuse. They may feel rage, embarrassment, and humiliation. Children of abuse feel isolated and vulnerable. They are starved for attention, affection and approval. Because mom is struggling to survive, she is often not present for her children. Because dad is so consumed with controlling everyone, he also is not present for his children. These children become physically, emotionally and psychologically abandoned. What behaviors do children who witness domestic violence exhibit? The emotional responses of children who witness domestic violence may include fear, guilt, shame, sleep disturbances, sadness, depression, and anger (at both the abuser for the violence and at the mother for being unable to prevent the violence). Physical responses may include stomachaches and/or headaches, bedwetting, and loss of ability to concentrate. Some children may also experience physical or sexual abuse or neglect. Others may be injured while trying to intervene on behalf of their mother or a sibling. The behavioral responses of children who witness domestic violence may include acting out, withdrawal, or anxiousness to please. The children may exhibit signs of anxiety and have a short attention span which may result in poor school performance and attendance. They may experience developmental delays in speech, motor or cognitive skills. They may also use violence to express themselves displaying increased aggression with peers or mother. They can become self-injuring. What are the long-term effects on children who witness domestic violence? Whether or not children are physically abused, they often suffer emotional and psychological trauma from living in homes where their fathers abuse their mothers. Children whose mothers are abused are denied the kind of home life that fosters healthy development. Children who grow up observing their mothers being abused, especially by their fathers, grow up with a role model of intimate relationships in which one person uses intimidation and violence over the other person to get their way. Because children have a natural tendency to identify with strength, they may ally themselves with the abuser and lose respect for their seemingly helpless mother. Abusers typically play into this by putting the mother down in front of her children and telling them that their mother is “crazy” or “stupid” and that they do not have to listen to her. Seeing their mothers treated with enormous disrespect, teaches children that they can disrespect women the way their fathers do. Most experts believe that children who are raised in abusive homes learn that violence is an effective way to resolve conflicts and problems. They may replicate the violence they witnessed as children in their teen and adult relationships and parenting experiences. Boys who witness their mothers’ abuse are more likely to batter their female partners as adults than boys raised in nonviolent homes. For girls, adolescence may result in the belief that threats and violence are the norm in relationships. Children from violent homes have higher risks of alcohol/drug abuse, post traumatic stress disorder, and juvenile delinquency. Witnessing domestic violence is the single best predictor of juvenile delinquency and adult criminality. It is also the number one reason children run away Did you read this Review ? "Children who grow up with abuse are expected to keep the family secret, sometimes not even talking to each other about the abuse. Children from abusive homes can look fine to the outside world, but inside they are in terrible pain. Their families are chaotic and crazy. They may blame themselves for the abuse thinking if they had not done or said a particular thing, the abuse would not have occurred. They may also become angry at their siblings or their mother for triggering the abuse. They may feel rage, embarrassment, and humiliation."
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