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Post by rational on May 7, 2015 17:45:24 GMT -5
Well personally I know that I am the 'spawn of the devil'. A worker told me so when I was 12. So some obviously do believe that. While I like the phrase "spawn of the devil" you have to dig deep into the definitions for it to make sense - unless the devil is a frog or fish.
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Post by rational on May 7, 2015 17:48:52 GMT -5
Well personally I know that I am the 'spawn of the devil'. A worker told me so when I was 12. So some obviously do believe that. While I like the phrase "spawn of the devil" you have to dig deep into the definitions for it to make sense - unless the devil is a frog or fish. Another idiom to be translated!
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Post by snow on May 7, 2015 18:10:22 GMT -5
Well personally I know that I am the 'spawn of the devil'. A worker told me so when I was 12. So some obviously do believe that. While I like the phrase "spawn of the devil" you have to dig deep into the definitions for it to make sense - unless the devil is a frog or fish. Ha! good point.
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Post by rational on May 7, 2015 22:57:14 GMT -5
Much like words that come out of SOME workers mouths then? I've read a few of your posts Felicity and I feel like you're not ready to hear the truth about the 'truth'.... It may be new information but most people take some time to get accustomed to hearing things regarding their cherished beliefs that contradict what they believe. Anecdotal stories may or may not be of interest since they only reveal one side of the situation. And then there is the possibility that for some the workers are an ideal scape goat Perhaps the problem is more in trying to determine what is and is not the truth. They may be true or they might be fabricated or anything in between. The telling of the story also depends on the perception of the person. How people should or should not function is certainly open for a wide variation of behaviors. Not certain who determines how another should act. If she has been reading I am sure she has read some things that are shocking. Depending on her location she may also read things that she knows are false or find confirmation of things she suspected. I am sure posters will look out for @felicity!
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Post by whyisitso on May 8, 2015 0:38:34 GMT -5
Much like words that come out of SOME workers mouths then? I've read a few of your posts Felicity and I feel like you're not ready to hear the truth about the 'truth'.... Rather than wanting to tell you all about my dealings with some of the workers in my part of the world and wanting you to understand where some people (who've been deeply hurt by workers in the 'truth') are coming from with their mistrust and hurt and sadness etc etc of their experiences, I feel like I want to cover your eyes and ears and shepherd you back to your blissfully unaware (edited) little spot on the earth. Shut down your computer, don't ever start it again. Stay off tmb, as it doesn't seem like you're ready for the truth. I remember being told 'don't read the stuff on the Internet, it's all lies lies lies'. That certainly worked for a long time. But then eventually I realized that if my story was so unbelievable, but true, then why wouldn't others be. It's rather confronting when you start to learn the truth about the 'truth'. (this doesn't mean I think all workers and friends are awful... However I've met quite a few who don't act even close to what they should or speak as they should) I pray that your eyes can be opened in a gentle manner, not as crudely as can happen here on tmb. Something I cannot understand. Most of you here write constantly of your dislike for the exclusivity of the 2x2 church. You also (correctly ) constantly write that salvation is found through Jesus. Felicity tells us of her love for her God, her love for her fellowship and those she has fellowship with, her concern for those that dont know God and her belief that what is written in Gods word is true.... and you cant stand it! ! Here is whyisitso doing all he/she can to persuade her that her that she cant possibly be happy, she must be blind and when her eyes are opened ('learn the truth ) then all will be well. How exclusive. If Felicity is happy in her personal relationship with God and her fellowship isn't that what matters. Does it occur to you that many of us are aware of things that have happened that shouldnt, people that have done and said things they shouldn't (we ARE dealing with humans and human nature after all) but we love God, have a very personal relationship with him and love the fellowship we enjoy with others. Why are you so desperate to convince us otherwise.! Um, sorry, I missed the bit where I told her she couldn't be happy? I'm not bitter towards the meetings or workers… I'm happy if you're happy. I just couldn't continue on in the 'truth' after being treated how I was and my relationship with my Heavenly Father being question as it was. I have a big issue with being told that my prayers answered couldn't possibly have come from God because they (the workers) didn't agree with the outcome because it didn't suit one of THEIR rules (NOT God's rules). But that's ok. I don't believe the 'truth' is the only way to salvation, so whether they or anyone else think i've 'lost out' or not is of no concern to me. I do want to make this very clear tho…. Just because someone goes to meetings doesn't mean i don't think they can be happy and totally fulfilled in their walk with God. Just because someone doesn't go to meetings doesn't mean I don't think they can be happy and totally fulfilled in their walk with God. What my post was actually about was I felt like I wanted to 'protect' Felicity from the big bad world of the internet…. it seemed like her experiences were very innocent and she had disbelief at things that people were telling her in that it couldn't possibly be true. Anyway, i'm sure she's more than capable of deciding what she'd like to read. I'm not desperate to convince anyone of when and where they should worship… but please read the last line of what I posted to Felicity, that was really what i was trying to say. But thanks for your comments Tom, I'm glad i've had opportunity to clear up what I was actually trying to say.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2015 2:11:04 GMT -5
Um, sorry, I missed the bit where I told her she couldn't be happy? I'm not bitter towards the meetings or workers… I'm happy if you're happy. I just couldn't continue on in the 'truth' after being treated how I was and my relationship with my Heavenly Father being question as it was. I have a big issue with being told that my prayers answered couldn't possibly have come from God because they (the workers) didn't agree with the outcome because it didn't suit one of THEIR rules (NOT God's rules). But that's ok. I don't believe the 'truth' is the only way to salvation, so whether they or anyone else think i've 'lost out' or not is of no concern to me. I do want to make this very clear tho…. Just because someone goes to meetings doesn't mean i don't think they can be happy and totally fulfilled in their walk with God. Just because someone doesn't go to meetings doesn't mean I don't think they can be happy and totally fulfilled in their walk with God. What my post was actually about was I felt like I wanted to 'protect' Felicity from the big bad world of the internet…. it seemed like her experiences were very innocent and she had disbelief at things that people were telling her in that it couldn't possibly be true. Anyway, i'm sure she's more than capable of deciding what she'd like to read. I'm not desperate to convince anyone of when and where they should worship… but please read the last line of what I posted to Felicity, that was really what i was trying to say. But thanks for your comments Tom, I'm glad i've had opportunity to clear up what I was actually trying to say. It's ok, I got what you were trying to say whyisitso, and I felt your intent was to be kind, though our perspective may be different. For the record, I am happy
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Post by emy on May 8, 2015 10:36:40 GMT -5
..... Anyway, i'm sure she's more than capable of deciding what she'd like to read. I'm not desperate to convince anyone of when and where they should worship… but please read the last line of what I posted to Felicity, that was really what i was trying to say. But thanks for your comments Tom, I'm glad i've had opportunity to clear up what I was actually trying to say. Last line: I pray that your eyes can be opened in a gentle manner, not as crudely as can happen here on tmb. I know I should sit on my hands since Felicity has already replied very graciously, but I guess I'm too Irish for that! I have one question: What is it you want her eyes opened to see?
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Post by dmmichgood on May 8, 2015 15:04:51 GMT -5
Something I cannot understand. Most of you here write constantly of your dislike for the exclusivity of the 2x2 church. You also (correctly ) constantly write that salvation is found through Jesus. Felicity tells us of her love for her God, her love for her fellowship and those she has fellowship with, her concern for those that dont know God and her belief that what is written in Gods word is true.... and you cant stand it! ! Here is whyisitso doing all he/she can to persuade her that her that she cant possibly be happy, she must be blind and when her eyes are opened ('learnthe truth ) then all will be well. How exclusive. If Felicity is happy in her personal relationship with God and her fellowship isn't that what matters. Does it occur to you that many of us are aware of things that have happened that shouldnt, people that have done and said things they shouldn't (we ARE dealing with humans and human nature after all) but we love God, have a very personal relationship with him and love the fellowship we enjoy with others. Why are you so desperate to convince us otherwise.! I have no intention of trying to convince you or anyone else.
I can & do tell my story of how I was treated by a worker but only on this board. I know no one that is professing has the intestinal fortitude (except FOR one lady) to do or say anything against what that worker was doing.
The sad part is I also knew why no one would. They were afraid that THEY would be in trouble as well.
They were kind and compassionate people but they were afraid of bucking the SYSTEM, and it IS THE SYSTEM that I am talking about.!
It is NOT about just one person "doing or saying things that they shouldn't have!"
It is The SYSTEM of believing the only the workers are right and you had better side with them because THEY have the power to control whether you are considered "whole hearted" or treat you even worse!
I am not "desperate to convince anyone of anything!
I knew from the beginning that I damn well wouldn't be able to, -so I never even tried!
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Post by dmmichgood on May 8, 2015 15:16:46 GMT -5
No one has ever said that different churches are utterly and completely without truth. Usually the fault lies in the foundation. And what did Jesus say about foundations? Build on the rock, not sand. However, sand is tiny pieces of rock. Therefore, people in different churches surely can have pieces of truth.
Emy, It isn't true that "No one has ever said that different churches are utterly and completely without truth."
The workers use to preach it all the time!
One worker, -I believe it was Ed Cooney but I'm not sure, -was invited by the minister of an "outside" church to speak to their congregation and the worker basically told the people they were all going to hell!
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Post by whyisitso on May 8, 2015 15:47:41 GMT -5
..... Anyway, i'm sure she's more than capable of deciding what she'd like to read. I'm not desperate to convince anyone of when and where they should worship… but please read the last line of what I posted to Felicity, that was really what i was trying to say. But thanks for your comments Tom, I'm glad i've had opportunity to clear up what I was actually trying to say. Last line: I pray that your eyes can be opened in a gentle manner, not as crudely as can happen here on tmb. I know I should sit on my hands since Felicity has already replied very graciously, but I guess I'm too Irish for that! I have one question: What is it you want her eyes opened to see? Well Emy, I'll liken it to this... My mum loves meetings. She has a very close living relationship with God. She's kind, loving, caring, humble and a whole lot of other nice things. She was terribly hurt by what happened to me but she still keeps her place where she is with the meetings. If my mum was to find out about all the cases of csa amongst the friends, the bullying tactics of some of the workers and friends, the Vietnam story etc etc etc etc etc, I'd hate for her to find out some of that stuff on a site like this. It would genuinely shock her. It would be hurtful. She's not completely naive but she's quite sheltered, they've also had their own 'experiences' but she's still sheltered. She's very happy with the meetings generally and so I would really see no need in filling her mind with the stuff from this site. But I can now see clearly from the comments of some, that as an 'ex' I couldn't possibly have the right motives by what I've said. Oh well.
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Post by emy on May 8, 2015 16:34:58 GMT -5
No one has ever said that different churches are utterly and completely without truth. Usually the fault lies in the foundation. And what did Jesus say about foundations? Build on the rock, not sand. However, sand is tiny pieces of rock. Therefore, people in different churches surely can have pieces of truth.
Emy, It isn't true that "No one has ever said that different churches are utterly and completely without truth."
The workers use to preach it all the time!
One worker, -I believe it was Ed Cooney but I'm not sure, -was invited by the minister of an "outside" church to speak to their congregation and the worker basically told the people they were all going to hell!
Even if they did say such, it would not mean that the different church had no truth at all. But Jesus said building on pieces of truth is not enough. Build on the rock - the revelation that he is Christ, the Son of God.
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Post by fixit on May 8, 2015 17:40:40 GMT -5
Emy, It isn't true that "No one has ever said that different churches are utterly and completely without truth."
The workers use to preach it all the time!
One worker, -I believe it was Ed Cooney but I'm not sure, -was invited by the minister of an "outside" church to speak to their congregation and the worker basically told the people they were all going to hell!
Even if they did say such, it would not mean that the different church had no truth at all. But Jesus said building on pieces of truth is not enough. Build on the rock - the revelation that he is Christ, the Son of God. You're mixing metaphors Emy. Hearing and putting into practice the words Jesus had spoken is like building on the rock. Hearing and not putting into practice the words Jesus had spoken is like building on sand. The revelation that Jesus was the Messiah was a separate metaphor. The first metaphor is about what the individual hearer is building. The other metaphor is about what Jesus is building.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2015 17:54:28 GMT -5
Emy, It isn't true that "No one has ever said that different churches are utterly and completely without truth."
The workers use to preach it all the time!
One worker, -I believe it was Ed Cooney but I'm not sure, -was invited by the minister of an "outside" church to speak to their congregation and the worker basically told the people they were all going to hell!
Even if they did say such, it would not mean that the different church had no truth at all. But Jesus said building on pieces of truth is not enough. Build on the rock - the revelation that he is Christ, the Son of God. Yep, building on shifting sand is not good enough, but building on the solid rock is much more desirable and safer.
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Post by Greg on May 8, 2015 18:27:01 GMT -5
Even if they did say such, it would not mean that the different church had no truth at all. But Jesus said building on pieces of truth is not enough. Build on the rock - the revelation that he is Christ, the Son of God. Yep, building on shifting sand is not good enough, but building on the solid rock is much more desirable and safer. Okay, is this one rock? One large, flat on the top solid rock? Any concerns about adjacent soil conditions? Closeness to water....flooding?
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2015 19:04:03 GMT -5
Yep, building on shifting sand is not good enough, but building on the solid rock is much more desirable and safer. Okay, is this one rock? One large, flat on the top solid rock? Any concerns about adjacent soil conditions? Closeness to water....flooding? Not sure about the answers to your questions but here is: A beautiful spiritual song found on YouTube: My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus blood and righteousness, I dare not trust the sweetest frame, but wholly lean on Jesus name, On Christ the solid rock I stand, all other ground is sinking sand, All other ground is sinking sand. Does it give you any clues?
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Post by emy on May 8, 2015 19:13:22 GMT -5
Even if they did say such, it would not mean that the different church had no truth at all. But Jesus said building on pieces of truth is not enough. Build on the rock - the revelation that he is Christ, the Son of God. You're mixing metaphors Emy. Hearing and putting into practice the words Jesus had spoken is like building on the rock. Hearing and not putting into practice the words Jesus had spoken is like building on sand. The revelation that Jesus was the Messiah was a separate metaphor. The first metaphor is about what the individual hearer is building. The other metaphor is about what Jesus is building. OK. Error acknowledged, especially for individuals, but I think we can safely say the church should be built on the rock of revelation. And when individuals in it are putting the words of Jesus into practice, then that's a solid foundation as well.
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Post by emy on May 8, 2015 19:22:06 GMT -5
Yep, building on shifting sand is not good enough, but building on the solid rock is much more desirable and safer. Okay, is this one rock? One large, flat on the top solid rock? Any concerns about adjacent soil conditions? Closeness to water....flooding? That's how I have pictured it - one flat rock far above the water, no shifting sand in sight. But it does say wind and floods will come to both so maybe my visual of being up high needs revising.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 12:47:15 GMT -5
Ilylo's TLT site blames Lyle Schober for being spineless and giving the job to the TX elder. I know elders that would have told LS that they didn't have the guts to approach Miller.
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