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Post by Greg on May 3, 2015 4:13:31 GMT -5
...Is there any precedent for this? I can't remember. I had heard the black stocking change came when a sister worker refused to wear them. She had been to a city - New York City perhaps - and seen prostitutes wearing them. She refused to be attired the same as them in that manner. Others followed her decision. Grass roots movements?
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2015 4:27:37 GMT -5
Seems as if Lyle was upset that Brandon pointed out that some of the hymns were written by outsiders. Guess they could not change that quick enough. Interesting that they still have Cooney's hymns but leave his name off them. Charles and John Wesley, founders of the Methodist church were great men of God, they emphasised holiness and grace. If I was looking at the 2 tenants of faith within these 2 churches - Methodist and the workers I know which I would choose. Meeting in the home and the ministry or holiness and grace - what would you choose? I think that a combination of both would be just great for the soul.
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Post by Greg on May 3, 2015 4:33:58 GMT -5
Further somewhat along the grass roots movement is what I think happened with the belief in "back to the shores of Galilee" and "Jesus is God".
Due to certain non-specific preaching and certain misunderstandings and certain lack of attention by the workers in general and the powers-that-be, one belief became adopted by the friends in general and another belief in general was dropped and negatively criticized.
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Post by Admin on May 3, 2015 17:25:53 GMT -5
I am somewhat surprised by Lyle's stance in this. Of course, most of us don't know all the details.
But I would like to think that our Fellowship is inclusive with the love and grace shown by Christ, to embrace all who profess belief in Christ. Who knows, in time Brandon may come to value the practical benefits of our form of worship (in the home) and ministry. And in the process, Brandon may stimulate some others to think and search scripture, so as to discover their safety is in Christ alone, not in simply belonging to any church, group or creed.
May God's wisdom overrule, admin
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hberry
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Post by hberry on May 3, 2015 18:09:24 GMT -5
I am somewhat surprised by Lyle's stance in this. Of course, most of us don't know all the details. But I would like to think that our Fellowship is inclusive with the love and grace shown by Christ, to embrace all who profess belief in Christ. Who knows, in time Brandon may come to value the practical benefits of our form of worship (in the home) and ministry. And in the process, Brandon may stimulate some others to think and search scripture, so as to discover their safety is in Christ alone, not in simply belonging to any church, group or creed. May God's wisdom overrule, admin It would be great if more of the fellowship folks would search the scripture and discover that their safety is in Christ alone. Having recently left the fellowship and moved to a different church, it has been refreshing to find the love of Christ real and vibrant in a different setting. I'm saddened that my fellowship friends can't entertain that possibility for me, but with time, perhaps some might realize that I am as safe in Christ in my new church as I was with them. I hope Brandon has found a satisfying church for clear teaching and fellowship, and I hope his previous elders have had time to reflect on what he was struggling with. Likely both sides will look back and wish they had done things a little differently. Don't we all? It is Christ's church, and our actions should bring honor to the Name Above All Names.
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Post by Admin on May 3, 2015 18:30:56 GMT -5
It would be great if more of the fellowship folks would search the scripture and discover that their safety is in Christ alone. Having recently left the fellowship and moved to a different church, it has been refreshing to find the love of Christ real and vibrant in a different setting. I'm saddened that my fellowship friends can't entertain that possibility for me, but with time, perhaps some might realize that I am as safe in Christ in my new church as I was with them. I hope Brandon has found a satisfying church for clear teaching and fellowship, and I hope his previous elders have had time to reflect on what he was struggling with. Likely both sides will look back and wish they had done things a little differently. Don't we all? It is Christ's church, and our actions should bring honor to the Name Above All Names. Thanks hberry, beautifully put. Our desire, to bring honor to the Name above all Names! Here's how Paul put it for the Ephesians (ch.3): For this reason I kneel before the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name. I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the Lord’s holy people, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge — that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.
Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen.
Love that last sentence - "to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever!" Praise Him, admin
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Post by withlove on May 3, 2015 22:24:06 GMT -5
Has anyone heard of being baptized before taking part? Other than those who have professed and been baptized at the same convention.
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Post by fixit on May 3, 2015 22:42:42 GMT -5
While I think that workers and elders had no choice but to ask Brandon to not take part, Brandon's correspondence and conversation with them can serve as a record of essential doctrines of the fellowship. Why do you think that workers and elders had no choice but to ask Brandon to not take part?
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Post by dmmichgood on May 4, 2015 0:02:50 GMT -5
Review005 has just re-affirmed what most of us always knew, -still know and, I, for one, can't see any change ever happening.
That is the belief that the TRUTH, THE WAY, the Friends & Worker's; -whatever term you want to use, -has always believed that their "church" is the only TRUE WAY, -the only way that anyone has any hope of ever getting to "heaven."
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Post by Roselyn T on May 4, 2015 0:47:32 GMT -5
Well Review I am curious about something, its seems to be when someone questions something or has a difference on the doctrine of the F&W you respond with " his convictions were not the same as those he was seeking to have fellowship with." Why is it always the person that questions that is wrong ? Is it an easy way to shut them down rather than answer the question? By the way what is the doctrine of the F&W anyway?
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Post by dmmichgood on May 4, 2015 1:53:17 GMT -5
I was born & raised 2nd. generation on one side of the family & 3rd. generation on the other side of the family in the belief that is called the TRUTH, THE WAY, the Friends & Worker's.
I professed at the age of 12, and remained in the belief that is called the TRUTH, THE WAY, the Friends & Worker's for 40 some odd years.
I will put up my "perception" of said belief that is called the TRUTH, THE WAY, the Friends & Worker's; beside anyone else's "perception" of the that belief.
That is the belief that the TRUTH, THE WAY, the Friends & Worker's; -has always been to believe that their "church" is the only TRUE WAY, -the ONLY way that anyone has any hope of salvation & ever getting to "heaven."
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Post by Greg on May 4, 2015 2:51:43 GMT -5
Well Review...By the way what is the doctrine of the F&W anyway? The doctrine of the f&ws? I am familiar with the term the doctrine of Jesus Christ. I am not familiar with the first term but my guess is that it is a term coined by yourself or another ex member and is your perception of the teaching in our church. That pretty much covers it.
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Post by dmmichgood on May 4, 2015 2:58:30 GMT -5
Well Review...By the way what is the doctrine of the F&W anyway? The doctrine of the f&ws? I am familiar with the term the doctrine of Jesus Christ. I am not familiar with the first term but my guess is that it is a term coined by yourself or another ex member and is your perception of the teaching in our church. That pretty much covers it. "Pretty much covers" what, Greg?
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Post by Greg on May 4, 2015 3:08:19 GMT -5
That pretty much covers it. "Pretty much covers" what, Greg?
The doctrine of the friends and workers.
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Post by Mary on May 4, 2015 3:28:11 GMT -5
I didn't learn much of the doctrine of Jesus Christ in meetings but I learned plenty of the doctrine of the workers. It was their sacrifice and believing they were the true servants of God that would save me. Jesus sacrifice was not enough. I heard testimony after testimony about how a person was thankful for the workers but little if any about how thankful they were for Jesus and the price He paid. If it was just about Jesus they would accept other Christians but it is about Jesus plus the workers. It's the workers bit that alienates them from other Christians. Lyle makes it clear that they do not accept other Christians are saved. It's the workers that make the difference between salvation or not.
Review said he was familiar with the term the doctrine of Jesus Christ. The word 'doctrine' was a dirty word in meetings and was not a word that was used now review is saying he is familiar with it.
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Post by Roselyn T on May 4, 2015 3:35:43 GMT -5
I agree Mary ! So Review what is the doctrine of Jesus Christ ?
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Post by Roselyn T on May 4, 2015 3:39:39 GMT -5
Sydney Holt God has planned a person must hear through one sent by God who is living Truth as well as speaking Truth.
We are God's chosen people. Our main objectives are to serve the workers, attend gospel meetings and conventions and honor The Truth. [Los Angeles CA Special Meeting, 3/10/85] REF #158
So do you agree with this Review ?
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Post by Roselyn T on May 4, 2015 3:41:32 GMT -5
Willie Jamieson We aren't believing a religion. We are believing in a life. The life of God and His Son. Satan is trying to fill them full of religious ideas and actions. Everything that is false has a definite origin. A man who started it. Wesley started the Methodists, Joseph Smith started the Mormons, Mary Baker Eddy started the Christian Scientists. This is the Only Way that was started by Christ. [Post Falls ID Conv 1957] REF #185
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Post by Mary on May 4, 2015 4:12:48 GMT -5
Typical denial review. It does not fool me. Letters such as those by Lyle are enough proof. Are you sure you attend the same church as Lyle? After all you are supposed to be the same the world over.
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Post by fixit on May 4, 2015 4:40:05 GMT -5
Why do you think that workers and elders had no choice but to ask Brandon to not take part? Read the thread & you'll come to your own conclusion . That's an interesting comment after what you wrote an hour earlier... I haven't looked into this thread in depth My own conclusion is not what I'm looking for.
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Post by fixit on May 4, 2015 5:13:52 GMT -5
That's an interesting comment after what you wrote an hour earlier... My own conclusion is not what I'm looking for. You are probably advised to arrive at that, state it and use it as a baseline in seeking others'. I'm not asking for advise.
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Post by Mary on May 4, 2015 5:23:06 GMT -5
Not disgruntled Review005. I chose to leave on my own free will. God lead me out to be more correct. The opposite to disgruntled is in fact true for most of us on here who have left. I am pleased that I left and am happy to talk to ex members on this board and of course present members who remind us of our reasons for leaving.
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Post by maryhig on May 4, 2015 5:23:17 GMT -5
The only way to God, is to follow Jesus and his teachings. People can say they believe all they want! That's the easy part! Taking up your cross, denying your flesh and the sins of the heart is a whole different ball game! We can't do it without him. We have to let Christ into our hearts! We can say we are from any religion, but if we are not doing these things then we are not following him! This is what his apostles, and all deciples did! They gave up the world! One thing I've been shocked at since I've been in here is the picking about religion! It's the heart that counts! And having the love of God within it! You'll know of someone is following Christ by their life! Because if he's in your heart, you won't want the world, you'll want to be closer to God! That's true religion!
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2015 5:35:11 GMT -5
The only way to God, is to follow Jesus and his teachings. People can say the believe all they want! That's the easy part! Taking up your cross, denying your flesh and the sins of the heart is a whole different ball game! We can't do it without him. We have to let Christ into our hearts! We can say we are from any religion, but if we are not doing these things then we are not following him! This is what his apostles, and all deciples did! They gave up the world! One thing I've been shocked at since I've been in here is the picking about religion! It's the heart that counts! And having the love of God within it! You'll know of someone is following Christ by their life! Because if he's in your heart, you won't want the world, you'll want to be closer to God! That's true religion! Yes, it is so easy to talk the talk, that proves/shows nothing; but talking the talk, and walking the walk, and being seen to be walking the walk, Is what is important in our lives. Let our lights so shine that others can clearly see the Christ within us. I sincerely hope that my lights are shining brightly rather than dimly or not at all.
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Post by Mary on May 4, 2015 5:55:30 GMT -5
The word appears to suit your feelings about those who have left.
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Post by maryhig on May 4, 2015 6:07:14 GMT -5
The only way to God, is to follow Jesus and his teachings. People can say the believe all they want! That's the easy part! Taking up your cross, denying your flesh and the sins of the heart is a whole different ball game! We can't do it without him. We have to let Christ into our hearts! We can say we are from any religion, but if we are not doing these things then we are not following him! This is what his apostles, and all deciples did! They gave up the world! One thing I've been shocked at since I've been in here is the picking about religion! It's the heart that counts! And having the love of God within it! You'll know of someone is following Christ by their life! Because if he's in your heart, you won't want the world, you'll want to be closer to God! That's true religion! Yes, it is so easy to talk the talk, that proves/shows nothing; but talking the talk, and walking the walk, and being seen to be walking the walk, Is what is important in our lives. Let our lights so shine that others can clearly see the Christ within us. I sincerely hope that my lights are shining brightly rather than dimly or not at all. Yes partaker, a torch is useless without the batteries, It can't light the way for you or for others! Just as a man of God is useless without Christ! Without him in our hearts we the blind leading the blind! Let's concentrate on ourselves and getting our hearts right instead of picking at others! And once Christ is within, you will have the light to see clearly!
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2015 6:31:29 GMT -5
I am somewhat surprised by Lyle's stance in this. Of course, most of us don't know all the details. But I would like to think that our Fellowship is inclusive with the love and grace shown by Christ, to embrace all who profess belief in Christ. Who knows, in time Brandon may come to value the practical benefits of our form of worship (in the home) and ministry. And in the process, Brandon may stimulate some others to think and search scripture, so as to discover their safety is in Christ alone, not in simply belonging to any church, group or creed. May God's wisdom overrule, admin From the information given on this thread, I can't see what else he could have done. It reminds me of the story of a mother watching her son marching in a parade - her comment was "They're all out of step except my Johnny". One man is clearly marching to a different tune to the rest, and whichever side you believe to be in the right, the overall effect wasn't bringing harmony. Anyone who would bring a recording device into a convention meeting, for the purpose of recording his own testimony, was obviously fully aware that he was planning to say something that wasn't in line with the beliefs of the rest of the congregation, and was expecting to be challenged about it afterwards. I'd be interested to know what you mean by the term "all who profess belief in Christ"? - People who say they believe, or people who are actually living as Jesus taught? I've met lots of people who profess to believe in Christ, but I've never met any other group of people who is actively trying to follow all the teachings of Jesus. "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him".
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2015 6:57:34 GMT -5
I know of one woman, brought up Buddhist, felt a hunger and thirst for righteousness and began searching for that in Christianity. As a teenager she went amongst many churches. Didn't know or hardly knew what she was looking for and had many disappointments. Finally someone took her to a Gospel meeting. She knew she had found it! It was no Christ plus a 2x2 ministry! It was Christ and Christ alone! Much later she came to understand of the ministry and how it operated ***** People also have been disappointed in the meetings. And people have found Christ in the fellowship meetings also. One must elevate their Master above their group.
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