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Post by rational on May 4, 2015 15:53:59 GMT -5
Why do you think that workers and elders had no choice but to ask Brandon to not take part? Because it seems that in his meeting testimonies he was actively and repeatedly speaking against one of the essential doctrines of the fellowship. No public speaker in any church could get away with this. Just ask Martin Luther!
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2015 16:23:10 GMT -5
Jesus spoke of one being out of step with ninety nine. Yes, he said that one of the sheep was "gone astray", and it's owner went after that one to bring him back.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2015 17:34:55 GMT -5
I personally have never met anyone outside the f&w who shared the same beliefs. There are several Christian denominations in this part of the world, but I've never come across any whose doctrine is in line with the Bible. ****Felicity, you need to get out more and see God's work in unprofessing people! I agree that there are some very loose and casual Christians in the so called worldly churches. But there are some young people in the Truth who lack much spirituality either.
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Post by bubbles on May 4, 2015 17:56:36 GMT -5
You say that you've never met any other group who is actively trying to follow all the teachings of Jesus. Are you saying that f&w actively try to follow ALL the teachings of Jesus, while other groups you are aware of pick and chose which teachings they try to follow? I can't speak for all f&w, but the people we meet with are actively trying to follow all the teachings of Jesus, and I personally have never met anyone outside the f&w who shared the same beliefs. There are several Christian denominations in this part of the world, but I've never come across any whose doctrine is in line with the Bible. That's why I asked about Admin's experience. When you say 'the teachings of christ' does that include laying on of hands and anointing with oil? Praying for the sick?
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2015 18:19:22 GMT -5
I have seen little cohesive doctrine other than the meeting in the home and homeless ministry. Young people glorify the ministry less than their grandparents. I see some worldly dressed professing youth on facebook and the professing friends facebook forum. Seems strange to see a worldly looking couple talk about how much they value their little meeting because in my day, they would have been scolded by senior workers of that era.
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Post by faune on May 4, 2015 23:08:16 GMT -5
Mary, Your writings come across to me as reasonably typical of a disgruntled /disaffected ex member. I guess in your normal fashion you'll now post of how incorrect my expression of my own impression and thoughts are? I am unable to find much common ground with you I'm afraid. ad hominem fallacy: "attacking an opponent's character rather than answering his argument." DMG ~ It also sounds like a typical worker response to me.
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Post by fixit on May 4, 2015 23:13:55 GMT -5
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Post by whyisitso on May 5, 2015 0:33:28 GMT -5
I personally have never met anyone outside the f&w who shared the same beliefs. There are several Christian denominations in this part of the world, but I've never come across any whose doctrine is in line with the Bible. ****Felicity, you need to get out more and see God's work in unprofessing people! I agree that there are some very loose and casual Christians in the so called worldly churches. But there are some young people in the Truth who lack much spirituality either. Hmmm... Not just the young ones Walker. I can think of plenty older ones who leave a lot to be desired. Oh well, good job we're all works in progress I suppose!
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Post by whyisitso on May 5, 2015 0:36:18 GMT -5
You say that you've never met any other group who is actively trying to follow all the teachings of Jesus. Are you saying that f&w actively try to follow ALL the teachings of Jesus, while other groups you are aware of pick and chose which teachings they try to follow? I can't speak for all f&w, but the people we meet with are actively trying to follow all the teachings of Jesus, and I personally have never met anyone outside the f&w who shared the same beliefs. There are several Christian denominations in this part of the world, but I've never come across any whose doctrine is in line with the Bible. That's why I asked about Admin's experience. I find that very hard to believe Felicity. Where are you from? Just what country if you're comfortable disclosing that?
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Post by maryhig on May 5, 2015 1:56:29 GMT -5
Yes thats right, there is good and bad in all denominations, your can't say that just one religious way is going to get you into heaven. What about the wicked among them? You can tell by their fruits whether you can eat if it, or it's poisonous! You will know my their lives and the way they speak who do and don't belong to God, whatever religion they belong to! And even if they deceive man, they don't deceive God! Any person who says they believe in God and purposely does wickedness, better be careful! Because they're downfall will be great! Just think of the man, whose house was swept and garnished, it wasn't furnished! And seven more spirits, more wicked than the first entered in! He just looked the part, yet was empty and wickedness easily accumulated. But a true house of God is furnished, and that's Christ in the heart, if Christ is in the heart, Satan will pass over! Matt 12 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house. Once the kingdom of God comes to you then the Spirit of God through Christ will cast out the devils from your heart. He will show you your sins and help you overcome them! Then Satan can only enter, if we let him in, and he gets in by occupying our hearts and minds with the cares of this world. So that we have no room in our hearts and minds for God because we are carried away by the flesh!
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Post by Roselyn T on May 5, 2015 3:44:53 GMT -5
I am somewhat surprised by Lyle's stance in this. Of course, most of us don't know all the details. But I would like to think that our Fellowship is inclusive with the love and grace shown by Christ, to embrace all who profess belief in Christ. Who knows, in time Brandon may come to value the practical benefits of our form of worship (in the home) and ministry. And in the process, Brandon may stimulate some others to think and search scripture, so as to discover their safety is in Christ alone, not in simply belonging to any church, group or creed. May God's wisdom overrule, admin From the information given on this thread, I can't see what else he could have done. It reminds me of the story of a mother watching her son marching in a parade - her comment was "They're all out of step except my Johnny". One man is clearly marching to a different tune to the rest, and whichever side you believe to be in the right, the overall effect wasn't bringing harmony. Anyone who would bring a recording device into a convention meeting, for the purpose of recording his own testimony, was obviously fully aware that he was planning to say something that wasn't in line with the beliefs of the rest of the congregation, and was expecting to be challenged about it afterwards. I'd be interested to know what you mean by the term "all who profess belief in Christ"? - People who say they believe, or people who are actually living as Jesus taught? I've met lots of people who profess to believe in Christ, but I've never met any other group of people who is actively trying to follow all the teachings of Jesus. "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him". So Felicity do you believe the F&W are the only "Right Way "
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 3:56:38 GMT -5
So Felicity do you believe the F&W are the only "Right Way " Can you show me another one?
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 4:00:03 GMT -5
But there are some young people in the Truth who lack much spirituality either. Yes, unfortunately that is true, but they're not all like that. There are lots of lovely young people who are serving God.
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Post by maryhig on May 5, 2015 4:40:48 GMT -5
So Felicity do you believe the F&W are the only "Right Way " Can you show me another one? Hi Felicity, the only right way is following Jesus. And only God knows the heart. No one can say that only certain people are going to heaven, only God can say that! There's good and bad everywhere and in everyone! What about the people following Jesus that have good hearts that aren't in your religion? there are people that go to our meeting that I know God has blessed. But they've never professed through a worker. You can't say they aren't going to heaven. Because you nor I, not any other human being knows! Only God!
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Post by Roselyn T on May 5, 2015 4:46:46 GMT -5
So Felicity do you believe the F&W are the only "Right Way " Can you show me another one? Wow Felicity ! Where do you live ? Jesus is the Way not a group of people ! What about all those that lived & died before they ever heard a worker, are they lost ?
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Post by maryhig on May 5, 2015 4:50:00 GMT -5
The only way to God, is to follow Jesus and his teachings. People can say they believe all they want! That's the easy part! Taking up your cross, denying your flesh and the sins of the heart is a whole different ball game! We can't do it without him. We have to let Christ into our hearts! We can say we are from any religion, but if we are not doing these things then we are not following him! This is what his apostles, and all deciples did! They gave up the world! One thing I've been shocked at since I've been in here is the picking about religion! It's the heart that counts! And having the love of God within it! You'll know of someone is following Christ by their life! Because if he's in your heart, you won't want the world, you'll want to be closer to God! That's true religion! Yes, the Bible reminds us of the greatest commandment.... The only challenge is that there are many Christians who live as whole-hearted disciples of Jesus but workers and many friends regard them as "children of Satan". I believe that there are religions that are wrong, I'm sure you can see that yourself, but that doesn't mean the people. We don't know anyone's heart. And even if they believe the wrong doctrine, they can still have good hearts. I wouldn't judge anyone at all, no matter what they believe! It would worry me to do that, because I would be making myself a judge. And Jesus says that's wrong!
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 5:06:43 GMT -5
I didn't say they don't exist, I just said I've never met anyone like that. My experience covers a very small geographical area. That's why I asked the question, I was wondering what Admin's experience is. I've no doubt you will find true worshippers of Jesus in your local area. In my own experience, there were a number of lovely people in my local community growing up who were good people....the only problem was that they weren't in the only right way! Of course, when I go back there now and attend church with these "good people" and get to know them, they love the Lord, serve Him whole-heartedly and their lives reflect His work. They haven't changed but my mindset about them has changed. I am sure you will find them if you go and fellowship with them regularly. I know a number of 2x2's who have joined their local Bible Study Fellowship and have discovered many people who love the Lord. You have to remember (and I am quoting from own experience years ago as a 2x2): - these "good people" tried to talk to me about Jesus years ago but I closed it down - friends often do that - I had blinkers on when it came to looking at other people - I told one of my friends in my early adult years that "she might think she is a Christian but she goes to a false church..." - some friends have limited contact with outsiders and like it that way - they would rarely engage in a conversation about Jesus with an outsider I am sure you find plenty of them if you go looking with an open mind. Ross, I don't know how you can possibly be an authority on an area you've never visited. I've lived here half my life. People in this area just aren't interested in the Bible. I have some lovely neighbours, but they're not religious people. There is no Bible study group in this area. Someone tried to start a group some distance from here - a few friends went along and were told it was only intended for people who didn't know anything about the Bible and they were encouraged not to return. I've talked to older people, mainly with an RC background, who seem to feel they're not supposed to read the Bible; and younger people who feel it's not relevant in today's world. I am aware that this isn't the case in all areas, but I was speaking about what I personally have encountered.
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Post by Roselyn T on May 5, 2015 5:11:05 GMT -5
Felicity where do you live ?
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Post by maryhig on May 5, 2015 5:11:52 GMT -5
I've no doubt you will find true worshippers of Jesus in your local area. In my own experience, there were a number of lovely people in my local community growing up who were good people....the only problem was that they weren't in the only right way! Of course, when I go back there now and attend church with these "good people" and get to know them, they love the Lord, serve Him whole-heartedly and their lives reflect His work. They haven't changed but my mindset about them has changed. I am sure you will find them if you go and fellowship with them regularly. I know a number of 2x2's who have joined their local Bible Study Fellowship and have discovered many people who love the Lord. You have to remember (and I am quoting from own experience years ago as a 2x2): - these "good people" tried to talk to me about Jesus years ago but I closed it down - friends often do that - I had blinkers on when it came to looking at other people - I told one of my friends in my early adult years that "she might think she is a Christian but she goes to a false church..." - some friends have limited contact with outsiders and like it that way - they would rarely engage in a conversation about Jesus with an outsider I am sure you find plenty of them if you go looking with an open mind. Ross, I don't know how you can possibly be an authority on an area you've never visited. I've lived here half my life. People in this area just aren't interested in the Bible. I have some lovely neighbours, but they're not religious people. There is no Bible study group in this area. Someone tried to start a group some distance from here - a few friends went along and were told it was only intended for people who didn't know anything about the Bible and they were encouraged not to return. I've talked to older people, mainly with an RC background, who seem to feel they're not supposed to read the Bible; and younger people who feel it's not relevant in today's world. I am aware that this isn't the case in all areas, but I was speaking about what I personally have encountered. Yes Felicity, the are people in our meeting who were RC and they were told not to read the Bible also. They just read the catacism but i don't know what that is.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 5:34:40 GMT -5
Can you show me another one? Hi Felicity, the only right way is following Jesus. And only God knows the heart. No one can say that only certain people are going to heaven, only God can say that! There's good and bad everywhere and in everyone! What about the people following Jesus that have good hearts that aren't in your religion? there are people that go to our meeting that I know God has blessed. But they've never professed through a worker. You can't say they aren't going to heaven. Because you nor I, not any other human being knows! Only God! Hi Maryhig! Yes, I agree that only God knows the heart, and that the only way any of us will get to heaven is by following in the footsteps of Jesus. I believe in the way and the ministry that Jesus established while he was on earth. He sent his disciples out two by two, to go into all nations preaching the gospel. What do you think those verses in Romans 10 are referring to? - "how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent?"
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Post by Roselyn T on May 5, 2015 5:39:09 GMT -5
Felicity, where do you live ? Also what is your view on those that lived & died before they heard the workers?
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Post by Roselyn T on May 5, 2015 5:40:28 GMT -5
Ok understand ! So what about the rest of the question?
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 5:42:36 GMT -5
Felicity, where do you live ? Also what is your view on those that lived & died before they heard the workers? Sorry Roselyn, I'm trying not to say anything on a public forum that will make my identity obvious! You can pm me if you want to. I do not know the answer to your other question, that's something we have to leave in God's hands.
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Post by Roselyn T on May 5, 2015 5:51:01 GMT -5
Felicity are you aware of William Irvine & Edward Cooney ?
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 5:59:26 GMT -5
Felicity are you aware of William Irvine & Edward Cooney ? Yes. I believe that the ministry as I know it today was established on earth by Jesus, and there is absolutely nothing you can tell me about William Irvine, Edward Cooney, John Long or anyone else that will convince me differently. I am aware that there are many who do not share this belief, and I'm sure it's been argued on this forum before, so it's pointless to go there again.
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Post by fixit on May 5, 2015 6:00:41 GMT -5
What do you think those verses in Romans 10 are referring to? - "how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent?" The heavens declare the glory of God.
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Post by Roselyn T on May 5, 2015 6:11:57 GMT -5
Felicity are you aware of William Irvine & Edward Cooney ? Yes. I believe that the ministry as I know it today was established on earth by Jesus, and there is absolutely nothing you can tell me about William Irvine, Edward Cooney, John Long or anyone else that will convince me differently. I am aware that there are many who do not share this belief, and I'm sure it's been argued on this forum before, so it's pointless to go there again. So where is the line in history from Jesus to William Irvine ? Who were the workers before Irvine?
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 7:03:57 GMT -5
Yes. I believe that the ministry as I know it today was established on earth by Jesus, and there is absolutely nothing you can tell me about William Irvine, Edward Cooney, John Long or anyone else that will convince me differently. I am aware that there are many who do not share this belief, and I'm sure it's been argued on this forum before, so it's pointless to go there again. So where is the line in history from Jesus to William Irvine ? Who were the workers before Irvine? Like I said, it's pointless to go there again.
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