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Post by alexander on Sept 8, 2011 22:08:17 GMT -5
Please explain your answer. Serious answers only, please.
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Post by alexander on Sept 8, 2011 22:11:36 GMT -5
I voted "no" because the workers would be excommunicating us to keep me quiet rather then excommunicating us because it is right or because it is of God.
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Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Sept 8, 2011 22:20:04 GMT -5
Me an overseer? Some things are just too bizarre to imagine. I don't think I can participate in this poll.
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Sept 8, 2011 22:30:06 GMT -5
I agree with DD, in the thought of me as overseer being beyond the realm of possibility, but, assuming it were possible, I would need to think as one to get there. Of course, not all think exactly the same, but preservation of the system is of paramount importance to all - and thus, I feel that excommunicating would give you too much of a case, and you would continue to make noise. Therefore, I'll not actually excommunicate you, but will do nothing to stop the talking, etc. that is taking place, if not actively taking part in it.
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Post by alexander on Sept 8, 2011 22:44:23 GMT -5
I agree with DD, in that the thought of me as overseer being beyond the realm of possibility, but, assuming it were possible, I would need to think as one to get there. Of course, not all think exactly the same, but preservation of the system is of paramount importance to all - and thus, I feel that excommunicating would give you too much of a case, and you would continue to make noise. Therefore, I'll not actually excommunicate you, but will do nothing to stop the talking, etc. that is taking place, if not actively taking part in it. Good. I agree that excommunicating us would not be a smart "political" move on their part because they would be literally excommunicating me without cause, and they would also be excommunicating my wife and 4 professing kids. But how am I threatening the system? If "preservation of the system is of paramount importance to all", how am I actually threatening it? All I am doing is saying, "Stop the shunning and the false gossip/demonization." How is that a threat to the system? I am being obedient and doing what I have been taught by the Spirit in the meetings- and that is to stand for truth and righteousness, and mercy and kindness. I am begging the workers to do the right thing. Prove the doubters wrong. I am not a doubter. I fully expect that they will be led of the Spirit and restore my family as before and that the last will be greater then the first. And that there will be growth and blessings as a result.
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Sept 8, 2011 22:51:32 GMT -5
"preservation of the system is of paramount importance to all", how am I actually threatening it? All I am doing is saying, "Stop the shunning and the false gossip/demonization." How is that a threat to the system? That's complex! But for one, if workers are seen as more human, and professing people are allowed to see that there are happy people outside of the system, many will no longer feel any need of the system. I went for years feeling that integrity was what the system needed - and integrity is practiced and appreciated by many within the system - but ultimately the system, and the ministry in particular, must be seen as special, unique, the means to salvation, etc. And a lot goes into maintaining that appearance. As I began to say when we were in the midst of our experience, "It sure seems to take a lot of lies and cover-up to make this appear to be "the truth"!
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Post by alexander on Sept 8, 2011 22:56:05 GMT -5
It sure seems to take a lot of lies and cover-up to make this appear to be "the truth"! Exactly! What an astute observation! But, there is no need for all of that, is there?! The 2x2 fellowship is a wonderful fellowship that brought me to the Lord and that is full of people that live by the fruit of the Spirit. The image of the ministry means nothing to me, but the truth of the ministry means everything. I have written that over and over in emails to the workers- I do not care about the image of the ministry, I care about the truth of the ministry. I would hope that all friends and workers felt the same.
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Sept 8, 2011 23:05:02 GMT -5
It sure seems to take a lot of lies and cover-up to make this appear to be "the truth"! Exactly! What an astute observation! But, there is no need for all of that, is there?! The 2x2 fellowship is a wonderful fellowship that brought me to the Lord and that is full of people that live by the fruit of the Spirit. The image of the ministry means nothing to me, but the truth of the ministry means everything. I have written that over and over in emails to the workers- I do not care about the image of the ministry, I care about the truth of the ministry. I would hope that all friends and workers felt the same. It's probably a difficult call as to how many would feel it worthwhile to keep on with the fellowship if things were "relaxed." Would women put up with hair and dress codes? Would people allow workers to make meeting arrangements for them? What about when they didn't care for a particular elder? I've been around some I wouldn't want to meet with, if I didn't feel obligated! To me, there's just so much that would "fall apart" if the workers didn't maintain a hold on it. Many of us resisted "moving away" from meetings because we were afraid - what would happen if that fear were gone?
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Post by alexander on Sept 9, 2011 1:34:50 GMT -5
Exactly! What an astute observation! But, there is no need for all of that, is there?! The 2x2 fellowship is a wonderful fellowship that brought me to the Lord and that is full of people that live by the fruit of the Spirit. The image of the ministry means nothing to me, but the truth of the ministry means everything. I have written that over and over in emails to the workers- I do not care about the image of the ministry, I care about the truth of the ministry. I would hope that all friends and workers felt the same. It's probably a difficult call as to how many would feel it worthwhile to keep on with the fellowship if things were "relaxed." Would women put up with hair and dress codes? Would people allow workers to make meeting arrangements for them? What about when they didn't care for a particular elder? I've been around some I wouldn't want to meet with, if I didn't feel obligated! To me, there's just so much that would "fall apart" if the workers didn't maintain a hold on it. Many of us resisted "moving away" from meetings because we were afraid - what would happen if that fear were gone? I am not and have not advocated that the workers are not the stewards of the 2x2 fellowship. They can set the dress codes, the meeting arrangements, and preach true doctrine, and the friend's should respect their authority. However, the workers need to realize that people are not fooled by the workers bullying and blustering when ever they try to cover their mistakes. This fellowship is losing folks at an alarming rate. At least 4 families that I have spoken to that have left, left because of worker bullying and childish behavior. Some workers equate being held accountable for their abuses/poor judgement/mistakes as equalling an attack on their so-called authority. The system appears to be broken at the overseer level where this is no real accountability even to other overseers. Most of the abuses that I have seen are occurring at this non-biblical level. Do we really want a fellowship that is ruled by fear?! No! No one should fear the workers. No one should fear asking questions! Both are absurd notions.
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Post by pinky on Sept 9, 2011 2:01:40 GMT -5
I have written that over and over in emails to the workers- I do not care about the image of the ministry, I care about the truth of the ministry. I would hope that all friends and workers felt the same. See, that's your problem right there. The powers-that-be don't want you to care about truth in the ministry, but the image of the ministry! Look at the track record of truthfulness with the history, and various CSA cover ups. If you look the part generally you'll be left alone, as well as know your place - don't rock the boat. That's what it's about. If you are fighting for truth and integrity, it may be an uphill battle. PS, I voted no, I wouldn't excommunicate you. I would sit down and talk. And work towards resolution.
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Post by kencoolidge on Sept 9, 2011 5:43:21 GMT -5
Alexander My personal opinion is God does not excommunicate. I realize there will be those who will have all kinds of scriptual evidence to the contrary. I have read your post and felt your pain . So has God. I believe you have been very patient and tolerant to some ungodly actions. Just one question Who do you serve? Workers or God. Therein lies theanswer to your dilema ken
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Post by imnx2 on Sept 9, 2011 7:28:23 GMT -5
I am thinking yes...partially. Yet as indicated, the negativity about you and your family may already be 'excommunication' enough. The excommunication would be partial...you would be silenced in the meetings and others would be cautioned. Somewhat as I understand some D&R have been.
The basis for silencing would be: - upsetting the peace in the fellowship. - disrespecting those that have the rule over you.
Now, if I had authority in the ministry without being an overseer...the elder and at least two overseers need to make amends and all credibility and appropriate esteem needs to be restored to you and your family.
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timber
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Post by timber on Sept 9, 2011 7:28:32 GMT -5
Ken wrote: Just one question Who do you serve? Workers or God. Therein lies theanswer to your dilema
Exactly. And when we begin to believe that God is whom we serve, we suddenly realize our freedom even in the midst of persecution.
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Post by alexander on Sept 9, 2011 7:46:53 GMT -5
Ken wrote: Just one question Who do you serve? Workers or God. Therein lies theanswer to your dilema Exactly. And when we begin to believe that God is whom we serve, we suddenly realize our freedom even in the midst of persecution. Thanks, Ken and Timber. Exactly. But there is a Godly order to things. And all things should be done decently and in order. The workers tell me that, and I agree with them. However, that still doesn't address the root issue- the overseers policy of shunning us for 2 years and they will not listen to true witnesses that tell them that they were fed bad information. And they will not talk with us about why they do what they do. That is hardly Godly, decent, or in order. Doing things decently and in order applies to all, not just the saints.
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Post by alexander on Sept 9, 2011 7:53:19 GMT -5
PS, I voted no, I wouldn't excommunicate you. I would sit down and talk. And work towards resolution. And this is what I have asked for (along with witnesses). It seems more biblical and common sense then kicking out a family of 15 from fellowship.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2011 8:08:22 GMT -5
You will be considered a threat to the system on a few counts. Here's some I can think of offhand:
1.Unity It is expected that people say or do nothing which would affect the unity of the group or the appearance of unity of the group. It really doesn't matter if what you bring up is true or just.....if no one wants to fix it, you are just destroying unity by bringing it up.
2.Esteem them highly for their work's sake This is one of your biggest threats. By challenging the greatest workers (the overseers) in an error of theirs, you are not showing esteem for them. Most people recognize that worker-esteem is one of the foundations of the system and if that breaks down and workers become despised or the butt of jokes, the whole system will break down. You are threatening that foundation.
3.Don't "disturb the meeting" This is huge and is one of the most common causes of excommunication. If people in your meeting feel disturbed by your presence (or the presence of your children), they will start excomm procedures against you. Generally though it won't be against your children, it will really take flight if you are viewed as being against the workers.
I'm surprised they haven't excommunicated you yet. I suspect that it hasn't happened yet because you are being supported by the meeting you attend. If one or two there turn against you and the elder backs off actively supporting you.....you're toast.
It all sounds a bit crude and I suppose it is, but it's real life from my observations.
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Post by alexander on Sept 9, 2011 8:08:22 GMT -5
I am thinking yes...partially. Yet as indicated, the negativity about you and your family may already be 'excommunication' enough. The excommunication would be partial...you would be silenced in the meetings and others would be cautioned. Somewhat as I understand some D&R have been. The basis for silencing would be: - upsetting the peace in the fellowship. - disrespecting those that have the rule over you. Now, if I had authority in the ministry without being an overseer...the elder and at least two overseers need to make amends and all credibility and appropriate esteem needs to be restored to you and your family. Yes, we have been so isolated and demonized, you would think that the workers would believe that we have been "excommunicated" enough. But, since we haven't gotten the hint, and still love the friends and workers, and we still go to meeting and enjoy our little Sunday morning meeting and neither of the elders and no one has ever complained to us about being unruly or disrespectful- surely the workers wouldn't take that away from us, too? You mention that the basis would be: How have we upset the peace of the fellowship? Because we upheld truth and not lies? Because we refused to accept gossip, demonization, and shunning? Is an abusive home really "peaceful" just because no one will confront the real issues and instead allow the abuse to continue? (These questions are not aimed at you, Greg.) Disrespecting those that have the rule over me? This is probably true. But, isn't respect earned? But I have obeyed. And I have done everything that they told me to do (with the exception of following their advice regarding my children with RAD- something that do not authority to be advising me in.)
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Post by alexander on Sept 9, 2011 8:12:52 GMT -5
You will be considered a threat to the system on a few counts. Here's some I can think of offhand: 1.Unity It is expected that people say or do nothing which would affect the unity of the group or the appearance of unity of the group. It really doesn't matter if what you bring up is true or just.....if no one wants to fix it, you are just destroying unity by bringing it up. 2.Esteem them highly for their work's sake This is one of your biggest threats. By challenging the greatest workers (the overseers) in an error of theirs, you are not showing esteem for them. Most people recognize that worker-esteem is one of the foundations of the system and if that breaks down and workers become despised or the butt of jokes, the whole system will break down. You are threatening that foundation. 3.Don't "disturb the meeting" This is huge and is one of the most common causes of excommunication. If people in your meeting feel disturbed by your presence (or the presence of your children), they will start excomm procedures against you. Generally though it won't be against your children, it will really take flight if you are viewed as being against the workers. I'm surprised they haven't excommunicated you yet. I suspect that it hasn't happened yet because you are being supported by the meeting you attend. If one or two there turn against you and the elder backs off actively supporting you.....you're toast. It all sounds a bit crude and I suppose it is, but it's real life from my observations. You are 100% correct in your observations. Since when did unity become more important then truth? Is 100% unity in a lie more important then 4% believing and following truth?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2011 9:04:57 GMT -5
I first noticed the phenomena about 13 years ago. It was probably dominant before then because I wasn't looking prior to that.
I'm not sure it works quite like that. It's just that certain inconvenient truths will be sacrificed if unity is threatened. Truths which do not threaten unity will be held up.
What is fascinating about the truth/unity issue is that for some people the unity IS their truth. No unity means that truth does not exist. Hence the unity has to be protected at all costs, even to sacrificing the truth. Weird, but that's how it seems to work in some circles.
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Post by sharonw on Sept 9, 2011 13:07:55 GMT -5
I agree with DD, in that the thought of me as overseer being beyond the realm of possibility, but, assuming it were possible, I would need to think as one to get there. Of course, not all think exactly the same, but preservation of the system is of paramount importance to all - and thus, I feel that excommunicating would give you too much of a case, and you would continue to make noise. Therefore, I'll not actually excommunicate you, but will do nothing to stop the talking, etc. that is taking place, if not actively taking part in it. Good. I agree that excommunicating us would not be a smart "political" move on their part because they would be literally excommunicating me without cause, and they would also be excommunicating my wife and 4 professing kids. But how am I threatening the system? If "preservation of the system is of paramount importance to all", how am I actually threatening it? All I am doing is saying, "Stop the shunning and the false gossip/demonization." How is that a threat to the system? I am being obedient and doing what I have been taught by the Spirit in the meetings- and that is to stand for truth and righteousness, and mercy and kindness. I am begging the workers to do the right thing. Prove the doubters wrong. I am not a doubter. I fully expect that they will be led of the Spirit and restore my family as before and that the last will be greater then the first. And that there will be growth and blessings as a result. Alexander I disagree with you that the workers would have NO reason to excommunicate your family...I suspect they'd more then likely excommunicate you but leave the rest in the mtgs. IF the workers have reason to "not visit", to shun you, to refuse to find out what the other workers are holding over you even though those same workers slightly offered psychological support but not presence support or really helping to find out the real problem...and they've expressed their discomfor with you for pushing the whole thing instead of just shutting your mouth and going on. I sincerely believe that the workers DO NOT appreciate what you've put on TMB for it is egging on a problem that they thought and do think it best to have left it alone at the beginning and even now just to bite the bullet so to speak, for there is NOTHING you can do except leave the fellowship before you do get excommunicated...Look at your mother..she's removed herself due to things that have upset her spirit....and perhaps she is being very very wise...because the overseers are much the same as they've always been about "troubled areas"...they just choose to leave the folks in those trouble completely alone and IF those same folks do not acquire the workers' attitudes and beliefs, then the workers and friends begin go advertise that you are not being above board in you profession of belonging in the fellowship. You will be excommunicated for the continued stirring of troubled waters for the workers do not like that kind of "spirit" around....
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Post by alexander on Sept 9, 2011 13:41:27 GMT -5
Good. I agree that excommunicating us would not be a smart "political" move on their part because they would be literally excommunicating me without cause, and they would also be excommunicating my wife and 4 professing kids. But how am I threatening the system? If "preservation of the system is of paramount importance to all", how am I actually threatening it? All I am doing is saying, "Stop the shunning and the false gossip/demonization." How is that a threat to the system? I am being obedient and doing what I have been taught by the Spirit in the meetings- and that is to stand for truth and righteousness, and mercy and kindness. I am begging the workers to do the right thing. Prove the doubters wrong. I am not a doubter. I fully expect that they will be led of the Spirit and restore my family as before and that the last will be greater then the first. And that there will be growth and blessings as a result. Alexander I disagree with you that the workers would have NO reason to excommunicate your family...I suspect they'd more then likely excommunicate you but leave the rest in the mtgs. We'll see. My service is unto the Lord, and not the workers. As hymn 325 says very plainly: "Not unto men I labour, not unto men I pray, But in Thy sight, Lord Jesus, I walk the lowly way; And unto mine own Master, I either stand or fall: What men have said about me- that will not count at all.My service is unto Thee, to Thee, My service is unto Thee; Through sorrow or pain, through loss or gain, My service is unto Thee." and the 2nd verse as well: "Lord, may my steps be ordered By Thing in-dwelling love, True to Thy life's example, True to Thy will above. . ." from Hymns Old and New R.L. Allan and Son Publishers Compiliation Copyright 1987 Pocock & Martin
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Post by StAnne on Sept 9, 2011 14:02:48 GMT -5
I am thinking yes...partially. Yet as indicated, the negativity about you and your family may already be 'excommunication' enough. The excommunication would be partial...you would be silenced in the meetings and others would be cautioned. Somewhat as I understand some D&R have been. The basis for silencing would be: - upsetting the peace in the fellowship. - disrespecting those that have the rule over you. Now, if I had authority in the ministry without being an overseer...the elder and at least two overseers need to make amends and all credibility and appropriate esteem needs to be restored to you and your family. Yes, we have been so isolated and demonized, you would think that the workers would believe that we have been "excommunicated" enough. But, since we haven't gotten the hint, and still love the friends and workers, and we still go to meeting and enjoy our little Sunday morning meeting and neither of the elders and no one has ever complained to us about being unruly or disrespectful- surely the workers wouldn't take that away from us, too? You mention that the basis would be: How have we upset the peace of the fellowship? Because we upheld truth and not lies? Because we refused to accept gossip, demonization, and shunning? Is an abusive home really "peaceful" just because no one will confront the real issues and instead allow the abuse to continue? (These questions are not aimed at you, Greg.) Disrespecting those that have the rule over me? This is probably true. But, isn't respect earned? But I have obeyed. And I have done everything that they told me to do (with the exception of following their advice regarding my children with RAD- something that do not authority to be advising me in.) I'm unclear on your meeting assignment. Did you receive permission to change from your assigned meeting to the one which you are currently attending?
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Post by alexander on Sept 9, 2011 14:10:10 GMT -5
I'm unclear on your meeting assignment. Did you receive permission to change from your assigned meeting to the one which you are currently attending? Yes, in writing, even. I was invited to the new meeting. But that was before that overseer was poisoned as well by the false gossip. Interesting enough, some of the false gossip that was being reported among the friends was that I "up and left and changed meetings without permission." Folks are always surprised to learn that that wasn't the case. Of course, that runs contrary to the other bit of gossip that was being reported among some of the friends that "his kids were being unruly in meeting, so the overseer had to remove them." But, since when did logic enter into these things?
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Post by Scott Ross on Sept 9, 2011 14:15:12 GMT -5
George and Dennis don't care. So what if your family is booted out of the fellowship? You have shown that you aren't going to accept their spiritual bullying, and they are all in a huff over it. People around the world are reading about your situation here on the TMB, and while there are workers out there that are sympathetic to your plight and encourage you to continue in the fellowship, these two guys really have no concern what all the friends and exes are reading about them. This is a fairly common occurrence, and it is actually becoming even more common as more people are reading and sharing what is posted here and elsewhere on the internet. I have pretty much sat back and watched your struggles, and while we DO only have your side of the situation, through it all you DO continue to proclaim your love for the fellowship and for the workers. However, you happen to be in a field with senior workers that really could care less about the spiritual well-being of you and your family. They simply seem to be seeing a problem, and they do not see any solution that would benefit THEM. They can't show you any kind of helping hand obviously, or they would be more than willing to follow scripture and meet with you and some witnesses and work this out. My guess is that they just can't handle the fact that you have such a large family. At last count (and I know it varies) you would show up with about 15 people to a meeting. Irregardless of bathroom breaks and fidgety children, just that large number showing up is going to be 'disruptive'. I imagine that they are a bit peeved that you are willing to accept all these needy kids into your home, but do not have a room permanently set aside for 'needy workers'. It probably really gets their overseerunderwear in a bunch to know that you are doing so much for others while ignoring the great pressing needs of those poor homeless ministers that need a place to lay their heads. Of course there is a REALLY SIMPLE SOLUTION to all this. Obviously you must have a rather large house. Obviously it must be a lot of work and time consuming for you and your wife to prepare for and get to meeting. Obviously you would be more than willing to open your home up for use for Sunday morning meeting and bible studies. Obviously they would only have to bring in one person to serve as an elder (and hopefully a few other friends living nearby that wouldn't mind shifting meetings. Obviously this would take care of any situation of disrupting a meeting. Obviously George and Dennis are going to refuse to do this as they are too far gone down the "we're freezing you out of the fellowship' road to consider any sort of reconciliation. Your story in one form or another has played out several times in the recent years. Most of these stories don't get the air time that yours has, but in each case the fellowship is weakened as membership is drained down. Just ask how many people have left the fellowship in the last ten years or so due to lack of caring by those who are considered 'spiritual leaders'. Yeah, there are some really great workers out there that DO care and you are unfortunate to be in an area where the workers really don't care to help those that need it. Just my opinion of course, but once again..... a couple of worker names that I have added to my 'spiritual bully' list. I get requests from readers to be put in contact with workers on occasion, and George and Dennis are not ones that I would recommend for those wishing to speak to a worker concerning spiritual matters. Maybe I am wrong in that as we do mostly only have what you post to go by, but after all his time (two years? ?) without them wanting to meet with you and find a solution to the problem is pretty pathetic. Scott
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Post by imnx2 on Sept 9, 2011 14:15:58 GMT -5
I'm unclear on your meeting assignment. Did you receive permission to change from your assigned meeting to the one which you are currently attending? Yes, in writing, even. I was invited to the new meeting. But that was before that overseer was poisoned as well by the false gossip. Interesting enough, some of the false gossip that was being reported among the friends was that I "up and left and changed meetings without permission." Folks are always surprised to learn that that wasn't the case. Of course, that runs contrary to the other bit of gossip that was being reported among some of the friends that "his kids were being unruly in meeting, so the overseer had to remove them." But, since when did logic enter into these things? Did the overseer of your 'field' give you permission or did an overseer overstep his dominion and do that which was not his to do?
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Post by StAnne on Sept 9, 2011 14:26:21 GMT -5
I'm unclear on your meeting assignment. Did you receive permission to change from your assigned meeting to the one which you are currently attending? Yes, in writing, even. I was invited to the new meeting. But that was before that overseer was poisoned as well by the false gossip. Interesting enough, some of the false gossip that was being reported among the friends was that I "up and left and changed meetings without permission." Folks are always surprised to learn that that wasn't the case. Of course, that runs contrary to the other bit of gossip that was being reported among some of the friends that "his kids were being unruly in meeting, so the overseer had to remove them." But, since when did logic enter into these things? Alrighty then. That's probably a good thing! Ohhh, I see. I didn't realize he too is now involved.
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Post by alexander on Sept 9, 2011 14:28:38 GMT -5
George and Dennis don't care. So what if your family is booted out of the fellowship? You have shown that you aren't going to accept their spiritual bullying, and they are all in a huff over it. People around the world are reading about your situation here on the TMB, and while there are workers out there that are sympathetic to your plight and encourage you to continue in the fellowship, these two guys really have no concern what all the friends and exes are reading about them. This is a fairly common occurrence, and it is actually becoming even more common as more people are reading and sharing what is posted here and elsewhere on the internet. I have pretty much sat back and watched your struggles, and while we DO only have your side of the situation, through it all you DO continue to proclaim your love for the fellowship and for the workers. However, you happen to be in a field with senior workers that really could care less about the spiritual well-being of you and your family. They simply seem to be seeing a problem, and they do not see any solution that would benefit THEM. They can't show you any kind of helping hand obviously, or they would be more than willing to follow scripture and meet with you and some witnesses and work this out. My guess is that they just can't handle the fact that you have such a large family. At last count (and I know it varies) you would show up with about 15 people to a meeting. Irregardless of bathroom breaks and fidgety children, just that large number showing up is going to be 'disruptive'. I imagine that they are a bit peeved that you are willing to accept all these needy kids into your home, but do not have a room permanently set aside for 'needy workers'. It probably really gets their overseerunderwear in a bunch to know that you are doing so much for others while ignoring the great pressing needs of those poor homeless ministers that need a place to lay their heads. Of course there is a REALLY SIMPLE SOLUTION to all this. Obviously you must have a rather large house. Obviously it must be a lot of work and time consuming for you and your wife to prepare for and get to meeting. Obviously you would be more than willing to open your home up for use for Sunday morning meeting and bible studies. Obviously they would only have to bring in one person to serve as an elder (and hopefully a few other friends living nearby that wouldn't mind shifting meetings. Obviously this would take care of any situation of disrupting a meeting. Obviously George and Dennis are going to refuse to do this as they are too far gone down the "we're freezing you out of the fellowship' road to consider any sort of reconciliation. Your story in one form or another has played out several times in the recent years. Most of these stories don't get the air time that yours has, but in each case the fellowship is weakened as membership is drained down. Just ask how many people have left the fellowship in the last ten years or so due to lack of caring by those who are considered 'spiritual leaders'. Yeah, there are some really great workers out there that DO care and you are unfortunate to be in an area where the workers really don't care to help those that need it. Just my opinion of course, but once again..... a couple of worker names that I have added to my 'spiritual bully' list. I get requests from readers to be put in contact with workers on occasion, and George and Dennis are not ones that I would recommend for those wishing to speak to a worker concerning spiritual matters. Maybe I am wrong in that as we do mostly only have what you post to go by, but after all his time (two years? ?) without them wanting to meet with you and find a solution to the problem is pretty pathetic. Scott Thanks, Scott. I don't agree that the workers see our large family as an issue- but they have used it as an excuse for some of their latest moves against us. I don't see the workers being needy. I see it being the opposite. They don't seem to need us or really any of the friends to "support" them. However, for the most part, I see Godly men and women when I see and think of the workers that are giving their lives for the sheep in service to the Chief Shepherd. I am still waiting on a happy ending for the the fellowship that I love, for the overseers that I love for their calling in God, as well as for my family whom I simply love. There is always hope and with God nothing is impossible. The sky is always darkest right before break of day, right.
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Post by alexander on Sept 9, 2011 14:33:23 GMT -5
Did the overseer of your 'field' give you permission or did an overseer overstep his dominion and do that which was not his to do? The overseer of my field did not give me permission to change meetings. It was the overseer of another state that invited us to that meeting. He in kindness invited us, as I had written him explaining to him that we couldn't go to our current meeting (at the time) anymore due to the interference with our RAD children and the current overseers endorsement of that interference. Again, he in kindness wanted us to have a meeting to attend, so we were invited across state lines (the horror!) to go to meeting. And it was lovely and a great oasis for my family each Sunday morning. Those elders and friends (they had 2 elders) will be rewarded handsomely in eternity for the cups of cold water that they gave us. (One of the friends from that meeting went on to his reward this week.) But, even that overseer, quickly turned against us (without telling us why and denying that he has a problem with us) and we are not "welcome" in his state anymore.
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