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Post by chuck on Feb 9, 2024 23:50:43 GMT -5
What changed between NT and OT was an emphasis between behavioral integrity based upon mind versus a basis of reward and punishment. Jesus touched our souls in terms of our motivations. Rewards were rewrote in terms of the reward from giving. This is the only way we can emancipate ourselves from our flesh. In the context of this world, our flesh has been enslaved by Satan. What's the reward?
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Post by chuck on Feb 9, 2024 23:56:43 GMT -5
You are going to have to explain what you witnessed in both with the things you have presented as evidence as so far the only evidence is man applying judgement. Sure… the only way we know anything is by ourselves or some other man. The entire discussion of God was born from the resident anomalies within man. So no evidence of judgement applied by anything but man. Which gets back to the post I originally replied to, your idea that Jesus is executioner of a judgement is purly emotional and baseless.
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Post by Lee on Feb 9, 2024 23:58:01 GMT -5
What changed between NT and OT was an emphasis between behavioral integrity based upon mind versus a basis of reward and punishment. Jesus touched our souls in terms of our motivations. Rewards were rewrote in terms of the reward from giving. This is the only way we can emancipate ourselves from our flesh. In the context of this world, our flesh has been enslaved by Satan. What's the reward? Life, and the power and wisdom to share it
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Post by Lee on Feb 10, 2024 0:00:46 GMT -5
Sure… the only way we know anything is by ourselves or some other man. The entire discussion of God was born from the resident anomalies within man. So no evidence of judgement applied by anything but man. Which gets back to the post I originally replied to, your idea that Jesus is executioner of a judgement is purly emotional and baseless. Nope The discernments we arrive at from observing one another, have been corroborated in the life death and resurrection of JC
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Post by chuck on Feb 10, 2024 0:06:08 GMT -5
So no evidence of judgement applied by anything but man. Which gets back to the post I originally replied to, your idea that Jesus is executioner of a judgement is purly emotional and baseless. Nope The discernments we arrive at from observing one another, have been corroborated in the life death and resurrection of JC Elaborate on what you mean by ressurection.
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Post by Lee on Feb 10, 2024 0:27:18 GMT -5
First of all, it means the apostolic (authoritative) witness to his miraculous resurrection.
Second, it means his potential to resurrect our souls to become compatible to the heaven and earth he wants to welcome us to.
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Post by chuck on Feb 10, 2024 0:57:51 GMT -5
First of all, it means the apostolic (authoritative) witness to his miraculous resurrection. Second, it means his potential to resurrect our souls to become compatible to the heaven and earth he wants to welcome us to. We have no idea if they were eye witnesse account's to a literal physical ressurection. We do know dead men dont come back to life after 3 days of death. And we do know it was quite normal to talk and write in parables and stories, so to assert it was a witness account of a physical miracle is something you will need to provide further evidence on. What do you mean by "soul", these people had a concept of the soul, are you using their concept or some other concept?.
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Post by Lee on Feb 10, 2024 1:40:34 GMT -5
Their concept.
Their concept of the soul would never have imagined reality could be reduced to matter, which you could cut slice and grow in some lab or pontificate about to a gnats ass in some court or academe.
Life was a miracle, and if occasions reflected life on occasion, they didn’t pull their guns out to shoot such occasions.
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Post by chuck on Feb 10, 2024 1:57:29 GMT -5
Their concept. Their concept of the soul would never have imagined reality could be reduced to matter, which you could cut slice and grow in some lab or pontificate about to a gnats ass in some court or academe. Life was a miracle, and if occasions reflected life on occasion, they didn’t pull their guns out to shoot such occasions. What was their concept?
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Post by Lee on Feb 10, 2024 2:42:28 GMT -5
That could take a book to respond to.
Roughly, they had a sense of the good, the true, and the beautiful. They deviated widely, but with or w/o the formalizations of the good by Israel and other civilizations, ancients had some innate sense of right and wrong.
Not to mention the nearly universal regard for the ‘numinous’. Say for instance you come across a deceased. What causes you restraint, and a sense of respect and awe for this life, this person, who passed.
Hence the catholic confession all peoples have the witness of the HS
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Post by chuck on Feb 10, 2024 3:59:44 GMT -5
That could take a book to respond to. Roughly, they had a sense of the good, the true, and the beautiful. They deviated widely, but with or w/o the formalizations of the good by Israel and other civilizations, ancients had some innate sense of right and wrong. Not to mention the nearly universal regard for the ‘numinous’. Say for instance you come across a deceased. What causes you restraint, and a sense of respect and awe for this life, this person, who passed. Hence the catholic confession all peoples have the witness of the HS And how would you apply that to an animal as they had a soul..... I dont see a whole lot of resemblance in your explanation to a few key factors about their idea of the soul....
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Post by BobWilliston on Feb 10, 2024 19:42:19 GMT -5
You can't be a worker today and be married. But in Ontario, Canada, you can be a worker today if you're divorced. There are two on the list. And that is permissible in other places as well.
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Post by Lee on Feb 13, 2024 0:30:54 GMT -5
That could take a book to respond to. Roughly, they had a sense of the good, the true, and the beautiful. They deviated widely, but with or w/o the formalizations of the good by Israel and other civilizations, ancients had some innate sense of right and wrong. Not to mention the nearly universal regard for the ‘numinous’. Say for instance you come across a deceased. What causes you restraint, and a sense of respect and awe for this life, this person, who passed. Hence the catholic confession all peoples have the witness of the HS And how would you apply that to an animal as they had a soul..... I dont see a whole lot of resemblance in your explanation to a few key factors about their idea of the soul.... Animals have souls but they're not threatened by sin like ours are. Sin in a man, is like a cat thinking its an elephant.
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Post by chuck on Feb 13, 2024 3:43:03 GMT -5
And how would you apply that to an animal as they had a soul..... I dont see a whole lot of resemblance in your explanation to a few key factors about their idea of the soul.... Animals have souls but they're not threatened by sin like ours are. Sin in a man, is like a cat thinking its an elephant. In relation to your comment "resurrect our souls to become compatible to the heaven and earth he wants to welcome us to" and then your following commentary about the soul, I dont think you understand their concept of the soul.
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Post by Lee on Feb 13, 2024 10:28:19 GMT -5
I think I do. I realize western minds came to conceive the soul and other things in platonic terms. Many christians tend to think of it materialistically, like a stand-alone essence that could be saved to a thumb drive as it were, and ported over through space and time.
I would not argue this conception is wholly untrue. I think we have good reason to believe our words and actions form the eternal stream of human consciousness, by which our particular personalities crystalize (or crystalize again). Our lives in Christ, shared and individual, consist of the custodial assignments and gifts He gives to us in every generation, until time is no more.
Jesus offered his conception of the soul and its eternal characteristics when he countered the sadducees' disbelief in the resurrection.
He answered, "Have you not read where God said, 'I am the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob.' He is not the God of the dead, but of the living". Jesus' concept of immortality as it pertains to human beings, isn't bounded by space and time.
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nathan2
Royal Member
Nathan again
50%
Posts: 3,362
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Post by nathan2 on Feb 13, 2024 12:04:22 GMT -5
I think I do. I realize western minds came to conceive the soul and other things in platonic terms. Many christians tend to think of it materialistically, like a stand-alone essence that could be saved to a thumb drive as it were, and ported over through space and time. I would not argue this conception is wholly untrue. I think we have good reason to believe our words and actions form the eternal stream of human consciousness, by which our particular personalities crystalize (or crystalize again). Our lives in Christ, shared and individual, consist of the custodial assignments and gifts He gives to us in every generation, until time is no more. Jesus offered his conception of the soul and its eternal characteristics when he countered the sadducees' disbelief in the resurrection. He answered, "Have you not read where God said, 'I am the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob.' He is not the God of the dead, but of the living". Jesus' concept of immortality as it pertains to human beings, isn't bounded by space and time. According to the Bible in the book of Hebrews, the animals have no souls, only flesh and blood. Once they died that is the END for them. However, the humans are created in the image of Eternal God likeness so, our souls are Eternal just like the Godhead, it can’t NEVER die, the bodies die and it go back to the dust as God created from. King David and many Old Testament believers KNOW about the souls will end up in hades! So, they were waiting for the Messiah to come and Redeem his soul and ALL of humanity souls from hell. Acts 2 Peter wrote what King David said there. The animals were NOT create as eternal like the humans souls because they have no souls. God create the chickens, beef, pork, Vegans plants and so on as foods, energy for the humans bodies to survive.
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Post by chuck on Feb 13, 2024 16:49:03 GMT -5
I think I do. I realize western minds came to conceive the soul and other things in platonic terms. Many christians tend to think of it materialistically, like a stand-alone essence that could be saved to a thumb drive as it were, and ported over through space and time. I would not argue this conception is wholly untrue. I think we have good reason to believe our words and actions form the eternal stream of human consciousness, by which our particular personalities crystalize (or crystalize again). Our lives in Christ, shared and individual, consist of the custodial assignments and gifts He gives to us in every generation, until time is no more. Jesus offered his conception of the soul and its eternal characteristics when he countered the sadducees' disbelief in the resurrection. He answered, "Have you not read where God said, 'I am the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob.' He is not the God of the dead, but of the living". Jesus' concept of immortality as it pertains to human beings, isn't bounded by space and time. That is still loaded with greek philosophy. You also seem to be placing greek ideas of immortality onto Jesus's words. The basic defenition of the word Soul is throat..... And for that to make sense you have to think of the function of the throat.
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Post by chuck on Feb 13, 2024 17:10:40 GMT -5
I think I do. I realize western minds came to conceive the soul and other things in platonic terms. Many christians tend to think of it materialistically, like a stand-alone essence that could be saved to a thumb drive as it were, and ported over through space and time. I would not argue this conception is wholly untrue. I think we have good reason to believe our words and actions form the eternal stream of human consciousness, by which our particular personalities crystalize (or crystalize again). Our lives in Christ, shared and individual, consist of the custodial assignments and gifts He gives to us in every generation, until time is no more. Jesus offered his conception of the soul and its eternal characteristics when he countered the sadducees' disbelief in the resurrection. He answered, "Have you not read where God said, 'I am the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob.' He is not the God of the dead, but of the living". Jesus' concept of immortality as it pertains to human beings, isn't bounded by space and time. According to the Bible in the book of Hebrews, the animals have no souls, only flesh and blood. Once they died that is the END for them. However, the humans are created in the image of Eternal God likeness so, our souls are Eternal just like the Godhead, it can’t NEVER die, the bodies die and it go back to the dust as God created from. King David and many Old Testament believers KNOW about the souls will end up in hades! So, they were waiting for the Messiah to come and Redeem his soul and ALL of humanity souls from hell. Acts 2 Peter wrote what King David said there. The animals were NOT create as eternal like the humans souls because they have no souls. God create the chickens, beef, pork, Vegans plants and so on as foods, energy for the humans bodies to survive. You are correct that animals do not "have a soul". I deliberately worded my previous post "had a soul" to see if Lee would pick up on it, he didn't and neither did you. This is not a dig at ones intelligence but rather to point out the misconception around the word. You don't "have a soul" or animals don't "have a soul" Nathan, that terminology is the wrong way to think about it to begin with. Strong's Number - H5315 Hebrew: נפשׁ Transliteration: nephesh Pronunciation: neh'-fesh Definition: From H5314; properly a breathing {creature} that {is} animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a {literal} accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): - {any} {appetite} {beast} {body} {breath} {creature} X dead ({-ly}) {desire} X [dis-] {contented} X {fish} {ghost} + {greedy} {he} heart ({-y}) ({hath} X jeopardy of) life (X in {jeopardy}) {lust} {man} {me} {mind} {mortality} {one} {own} {person} {pleasure} ({her-} {him-} {my-} thy-) {self} them (your) {-selves} + {slay} {soul} + {tablet} {they} {thing} (X she) {will} X would have it. KJV Usage: soul (475x), life (117x), person (29x), mind (15x), heart (15x), creature (9x), body (8x), himself (8x), yourselves (6x), dead (5x), will (4x), desire (4x), man (3x), themselves (3x), any (3x), appetite (2x), misc (47x). Occurs: 753 In verses: 683 Genesis 1:20 [20]And God H430 said, H559 Let the waters H4325 bring forth abundantly H8317 the moving creature H8318 that hath H5315 life, H2416 and fowl H5775 that may fly H5774 above H5921 the earth H776 in the open H6440 firmament H7549 of heaven. H8064 Animals are a soul, you are a soul. You are a living soul, when you die you are a dead soul essentially. It is not some immaterial thing seperate from your physical body. Living survivors of Dean Bruer are a great example of souls in hades.....and what will help lifr them out of hell is grace compassion ect, things attributed to the Christ character.... Worrying about your own immortality is the height of selfishness, and contradictory to the narrative and wisdom in scripture.
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Post by Lee on Feb 13, 2024 21:51:05 GMT -5
According to the Bible in the book of Hebrews, the animals have no souls, only flesh and blood. Once they died that is the END for them. However, the humans are created in the image of Eternal God likeness so, our souls are Eternal just like the Godhead, it can’t NEVER die, the bodies die and it go back to the dust as God created from. King David and many Old Testament believers KNOW about the souls will end up in hades! So, they were waiting for the Messiah to come and Redeem his soul and ALL of humanity souls from hell. Acts 2 Peter wrote what King David said there. The animals were NOT create as eternal like the humans souls because they have no souls. God create the chickens, beef, pork, Vegans plants and so on as foods, energy for the humans bodies to survive. You are correct that animals do not "have a soul". I deliberately worded my previous post "had a soul" to see if Lee would pick up on it, he didn't and neither did you. This is not a dig at ones intelligence but rather to point out the misconception around the word. You don't "have a soul" or animals don't "have a soul" Nathan, that terminology is the wrong way to think about it to begin with. Strong's Number - H5315 Hebrew: נפשׁ Transliteration: nephesh Pronunciation: neh'-fesh Definition: From H5314; properly a breathing {creature} that {is} animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a {literal} accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): - {any} {appetite} {beast} {body} {breath} {creature} X dead ({-ly}) {desire} X [dis-] {contented} X {fish} {ghost} + {greedy} {he} heart ({-y}) ({hath} X jeopardy of) life (X in {jeopardy}) {lust} {man} {me} {mind} {mortality} {one} {own} {person} {pleasure} ({her-} {him-} {my-} thy-) {self} them (your) {-selves} + {slay} {soul} + {tablet} {they} {thing} (X she) {will} X would have it. KJV Usage: soul (475x), life (117x), person (29x), mind (15x), heart (15x), creature (9x), body (8x), himself (8x), yourselves (6x), dead (5x), will (4x), desire (4x), man (3x), themselves (3x), any (3x), appetite (2x), misc (47x). Occurs: 753 In verses: 683 Genesis 1:20 [20]And God H430 said, H559 Let the waters H4325 bring forth abundantly H8317 the moving creature H8318 that hath H5315 life, H2416 and fowl H5775 that may fly H5774 above H5921 the earth H776 in the open H6440 firmament H7549 of heaven. H8064 Animals are a soul, you are a soul. You are a living soul, when you die you are a dead soul essentially. It is not some immaterial thing seperate from your physical body. Living survivors of Dean Bruer are a great example of souls in hades.....and what will help lifr them out of hell is grace compassion ect, things attributed to the Christ character.... Worrying about your own immortality is the height of selfishness, and contradictory to the narrative and wisdom in scripture. You should visit earth now and then, where human beings tend to be consternated over the matter of their mortality. Resolving all things to death is satanic. Do you hail from him? Dean Bruer and company are more perfectly in hell than their victims. How would one resurrect them? They could not begin to live with themselves, no? On the other hand, once over their trauma, the sky is the limit for victims. The Hebrews exercised a broader concept of the soul than you’re disclosing. They were concerned with the existential insult of mortality. If ‘soul’ merely referred to a living thing, they would simply have referred to them by their descriptors…. “giraffe, tree, two legged thing…” The soul concept assumes the creative force of God. He breathes into man and animal, to structure their consciousness. He indwells the dance between matter and energy, to form the periodic table of elements.
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Post by Lee on Feb 13, 2024 22:06:29 GMT -5
I think I do. I realize western minds came to conceive the soul and other things in platonic terms. Many christians tend to think of it materialistically, like a stand-alone essence that could be saved to a thumb drive as it were, and ported over through space and time. I would not argue this conception is wholly untrue. I think we have good reason to believe our words and actions form the eternal stream of human consciousness, by which our particular personalities crystalize (or crystalize again). Our lives in Christ, shared and individual, consist of the custodial assignments and gifts He gives to us in every generation, until time is no more. Jesus offered his conception of the soul and its eternal characteristics when he countered the sadducees' disbelief in the resurrection. He answered, "Have you not read where God said, 'I am the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob.' He is not the God of the dead, but of the living". Jesus' concept of immortality as it pertains to human beings, isn't bounded by space and time. That is still loaded with greek philosophy. You also seem to be placing greek ideas of immortality onto Jesus's words. The basic defenition of the word Soul is throat..... And for that to make sense you have to think of the function of the throat. You’re tyrannized by a need to interpret all things materialistically. Moreover, you wish to extend your tyranny to others.
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Post by Lee on Feb 13, 2024 22:10:56 GMT -5
I think I do. I realize western minds came to conceive the soul and other things in platonic terms. Many christians tend to think of it materialistically, like a stand-alone essence that could be saved to a thumb drive as it were, and ported over through space and time. I would not argue this conception is wholly untrue. I think we have good reason to believe our words and actions form the eternal stream of human consciousness, by which our particular personalities crystalize (or crystalize again). Our lives in Christ, shared and individual, consist of the custodial assignments and gifts He gives to us in every generation, until time is no more. Jesus offered his conception of the soul and its eternal characteristics when he countered the sadducees' disbelief in the resurrection. He answered, "Have you not read where God said, 'I am the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob.' He is not the God of the dead, but of the living". Jesus' concept of immortality as it pertains to human beings, isn't bounded by space and time. According to the Bible in the book of Hebrews, the animals have no souls, only flesh and blood. Once they died that is the END for them. However, the humans are created in the image of Eternal God likeness so, our souls are Eternal just like the Godhead, it can’t NEVER die, the bodies die and it go back to the dust as God created from. King David and many Old Testament believers KNOW about the souls will end up in hades! So, they were waiting for the Messiah to come and Redeem his soul and ALL of humanity souls from hell. Acts 2 Peter wrote what King David said there. The animals were NOT create as eternal like the humans souls because they have no souls. God create the chickens, beef, pork, Vegans plants and so on as foods, energy for the humans bodies to survive. Animals are souls and have souls. They aren’t preoccupied with the existential sadness of our/their apparent mortality in the same way or to the same degree we do.
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Post by Lee on Feb 13, 2024 22:23:41 GMT -5
Earth has a remarkable ability to neutralize our crap. A great canvass to learn on God is going to melt this old earth with Fervent heat! Asteroids… God is going to give you a better earth which last forever and ever! No asteroids, Nuclear bombs will and can destroy it! Im never comforted when Christians catastrophize, while modern day, Alexander the Greats plot ruthlessly.
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Post by chuck on Feb 13, 2024 22:56:31 GMT -5
According to the Bible in the book of Hebrews, the animals have no souls, only flesh and blood. Once they died that is the END for them. However, the humans are created in the image of Eternal God likeness so, our souls are Eternal just like the Godhead, it can’t NEVER die, the bodies die and it go back to the dust as God created from. King David and many Old Testament believers KNOW about the souls will end up in hades! So, they were waiting for the Messiah to come and Redeem his soul and ALL of humanity souls from hell. Acts 2 Peter wrote what King David said there. The animals were NOT create as eternal like the humans souls because they have no souls. God create the chickens, beef, pork, Vegans plants and so on as foods, energy for the humans bodies to survive. Animals are souls and have souls. They aren’t preoccupied with the existential sadness of our/their apparent mortality in the same way or to the same degree we do. "Have souls" is Greek philosophy. I'm not telling you what to believe, just pointing out how what you are saying makes no sense as its some sort of hybrid defenition absent original intent of the Hebrew scriptures.
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Post by Lee on Feb 13, 2024 23:05:55 GMT -5
Not true. The hebrew concept of ‘soul’ conveyed possession.
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Post by chuck on Feb 14, 2024 1:10:50 GMT -5
Not true. The hebrew concept of ‘soul’ conveyed possession. The Hebrew philosophy is man became a soul, it was not something he was given possession of.
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Post by Lee on Feb 14, 2024 1:21:07 GMT -5
Right. We’re all zombies and psychopaths.
Get a life
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Post by maryhig on Feb 14, 2024 2:03:20 GMT -5
Our soul is our being, it's whether we are a living soul or a dead one that's important.
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Post by chuck on Feb 14, 2024 4:30:16 GMT -5
Right. We’re all zombies and psychopaths. Get a life I am not surprised by the reaction unfortunately, it always follows scrutiny of baseless religious commentary.
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